Canadian needs help: Am I in danger of making a terrible choice?

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Hi everyone,

I have already posted this message in the Canadian version of this forum.


I just want to get your opinions about things in US. Now that, I have rejected on my third tries in Canada and waitlisted for interview in a few Canadian schools. I am ready to to throw the towel in with medical schools in Canada. The good news is that I have a ready acceptance in US at MSUCOM (so the DO programs). The bad news is the 51k (I have the Canadian scholarship) a year price tag excluded the living cost. So, I will be in debt to the tune of 260 to 270k after all things said and done. I have a US co-signer who is willing to sign the loan but it is still quarter of a million dollar debt. While my debt will be pegged in US dollar, OMG the exchange rate is just so horrible and I keep thinking in the Canadian equivalent of my debt. How do people deal with it right now?

My Concerns:

Many people I've talked to seem so down heavily on DO. Is it difficult to get residency in US in 2020 (the year I'll graduate)? How secure and safe is the route for Canadian DO since I'll need H1B visa? Would any Canadian DO here do it again right now? I just want to be either a FM or an EM. Even though, I'm trying to imagine paying off the loan with a FM salary.


I know, for a fact, that it will be hard to come back to Canada and I have made my peace with it. Beside, I rather feel that I would want to work in US when I graduate from US school. However, the first step that I must take to leave Canada is truly a difficult one since I have never been anywhere but here.

So, advices and opinions here please. I am very stressed and terrified of what the future might bring. I was told once that Change is a double-edged sword; you might not like so much after all. My family doctor (who is my godfather, random fact) also once told me that dream job is so overrated and he doesn't feel any more blessed or richer than his accountant.

Thanks so much for any inputs.

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Hello, could someone help me here? I am looking for opinions; bad or good as long as it is well-considered opinion, I'm happy. So, pleeeeassse offer me your thoughts and guidance.
 
90-95% of DO students get residencies. Many who do well, even (gasp) end up in competitive specialties.
 
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US DO is still much better than Caribbean. If you can do US MD, do that, it will keep all of your options open. DO is still a great route but it will be much more difficult to obtain residencies in Rad Onc, Derm, and Plastics, for example.

Otherwise, go to the cheapest school you can find, DO or MD. You'll learn the same stuff everywhere.

The visa situation makes things difficult, but shouldn't be a big issue for you since by the time you apply to residencies, the AOA and ACGME residencies will be merged. The main problem is that up until now most (all?) AOA residencies were based around small hospitals which know nothing about the H1b visa so Canadian DO's were forced to go allopathic, and the visa is difficult to get the more difficult the specialty. And definitely do H1b over J1 if you can.

If you want FM or EM then US DO should not be a problem, even if we include the H1b visa wrinkle.
 
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OP you're far, far, from making a mistake. Keep in mind our point of view when we 'seem down on the DO route.' It's kind if like the "First world problems" meme. We're complaining about discrimination at some (probably a minority of) residency programs, we're companion about fewer research opportunities, etc.

Caribbean students meanwhile ate complaining about 50% drop out rates, class sizes if 1000 people, only 70 percent of the 50% who graduate actually matching. "Problems" are in the eye of the beholder.
 
Lol.

Be happy that it's 51k. Take the acceptance and don't be an idiot. A majority of DO students will be graduating with 250 to 400k debt.

And this isn't the Carib. You'll match.
 
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Lol.

Be happy that it's 51k. Take the acceptance and don't be an idiot. A majority of DO students will be graduating with 250 to 400k debt.

And this isn't the Carib. You'll match.

What I said, but more succinctly.
 
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Why would it be harder to come back to Canada? As long as you do an ACGME residency in the US, you should be able to practice in Canada. Now that all DO residencies will need to be under the ACGME, I would assume you are also fine with any US residency.
 
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OP please take the acceptance. MSU is one of the best DO schools. Tons of resources. Plenty of teaching hospitals. It's a great school.
 
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Interestingly, I believe I read on the EM forums that US-trained FM docs can easily work as EM docs in Canada, whereas US-trained EM docs can't. Some kind of weird technicality that has to do with the length of training and two different pathways for ED docs in Canada.
 
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Why would it be harder to come back to Canada? As long as you do an ACGME residency in the US, you should be able to practice in Canada. Now that all DO residencies will need to be under the ACGME, I would assume you are also fine with any US residency.

While it is true that in the near future, all residencies will be ACGME accredited, it will be still be hard for me to practice in Canada. The length of EM in US is shorter than in Canada. It is only with FM that I will have no problems since it is only two years in Canada++++. However, if I'm trained in US, I feel I will be so used to where I am that I won't want to move back. And just as you have said, I'm fine with any reasonable residency programs who are willing to hire and sponsor visa for me.

Lol.

Be happy that it's 51k. Take the acceptance and don't be an idiot. A majority of DO students will be graduating with 250 to 400k debt.

And this isn't the Carib. You'll match.

However, is it not true that US has started to produce many more med schools now? As well, I'm just worried about EM as I was told by people in Canada that up here, EM is considered to be moderately competitive. I assumed it is not any difference down south. Add in, my visa thing, I'm nervous just thinking about the situation and the debt burden.
 
While it is true that in the near future, all residencies will be ACGME accredited, it will be still be hard for me to practice in Canada. The length of EM in US is shorter than in Canada. It is only with FM that I will have no problems since it is only two years in Canada++++. However, if I'm trained in US, I feel I will be so used to where I am that I won't want to move back. And just as you have said, I'm fine with any reasonable residency programs who are willing to hire and sponsor visa for me.



However, is it not true that US has started to produce many more med schools now? As well, I'm just worried about EM as I was told by people in Canada that up here, EM is considered to be moderately competitive. I assumed it is not any difference down south. Add in, my visa thing, I'm nervous just thinking about the situation and the debt burden.

Go search the EM forums. A while back there was a thread about how US-trained FM docs can be recognized as EM docs in Canada. You could do an ACGME FM residency (one if the least competitive specialties) and then go work EM on Canada.
 
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While it is true that in the near future, all residencies will be ACGME accredited, it will be still be hard for me to practice in Canada. The length of EM in US is shorter than in Canada. It is only with FM that I will have no problems since it is only two years in Canada++++. However, if I'm trained in US, I feel I will be so used to where I am that I won't want to move back. And just as you have said, I'm fine with any reasonable residency programs who are willing to hire and sponsor visa for me.

What about the more academic EM residencies which are 4 years, would that work?
 
What about the more academic EM residencies which are 4 years, would that work?

The bloody thing is that in Canada, EM training is 5 years. I can't imagine why.

Go search the EM forums. A while back there was a thread about how US-trained FM docs can be recognized as EM docs in Canada. You could do an ACGME FM residency (one if the least competitive specialties) and then go work EM on Canada.

As well, when I reach that point, I don't imagine I would ever want to move back Canada. Possible marry some US citizen and live in US forever to infect you guys with an obsessive love for Poutine, burning obsession with Hockey and zombified you guys to Canadian-ish socialists. JK.

Joking aside, the loan and the interest. That is why I am so terrified and discouraged. Goodness, for the first year alone, the debt will be over 59k. This is my salary right now and I love my salary and tolerate my job. I will be in debt at around 300k (tuition, CoA and interests), most of it is non-dischargeable. Just saying it, I want to projectile vomiting, literally. While it is true that I have access to around 100k loan from the bank of grandmother (mom and uncles, really) and as they say, the bank of grandmother has the cheapest interest rate if any, a total debt of 300k is mind = blown. Beside, it is just so humbling, infuriating and humiliating that I, now at 23, who is earning 59k a year have to bother my widowed mother and (also widowed) uncles for help. Even if that helps are happily given with big kind smiles, I just want to cry.



As well, I have talked with our financial adviser (really, my mom's). It was suggested that I should keep the Canadian LoC in mind. However, as of right now, the exchange will crush all possible interest rate advantage. It was also mentioned that it is not possible to forecast anything regarding the possible gain of Canadian LoC since it is difficult to predict the exchange rate so far into the future.



Right now, I will have to think deep about it. Sometimes, a fulfilled wish is just as stressful.



Really, thanks guy for your inputs. I pray if anyone is considering this route, please consider the implication very carefully, like I am doing right now.
 
However, if I'm trained in US, I feel I will be so used to where I am that I won't want to move back. And just as you have said, I'm fine with any reasonable residency programs who are willing to hire and sponsor visa for me.

Exactly why I'll be staying in the US to practice... Plus the weather.
 
While it is true that in the near future, all residencies will be ACGME accredited, it will be still be hard for me to practice in Canada. The length of EM in US is shorter than in Canada. It is only with FM that I will have no problems since it is only two years in Canada++++. However, if I'm trained in US, I feel I will be so used to where I am that I won't want to move back. And just as you have said, I'm fine with any reasonable residency programs who are willing to hire and sponsor visa for me.

However, is it not true that US has started to produce many more med schools now? As well, I'm just worried about EM as I was told by people in Canada that up here, EM is considered to be moderately competitive. I assumed it is not any difference down south. Add in, my visa thing, I'm nervous just thinking about the situation and the debt burden.

EM is moderately competitive here as well and most likely will be even more competitive by 2020, but nothing like derm/ENT/plastics/Optho. But, I wouldn't pigeon-hole yourself into 2 specialties. You should be much more open-minded about what you would consider doing. As far as Canada vs. US, that's a decision you'll have to make on your own.
 
If you're okay with practicing in the us, you should go for it. 270k can be paid off, though it might be tougher for you because I doubt non citizens qualify for ibr or paye. I wouldn't worry about the exchange rate, you're at least 7 years away from that being important.
 
EM is moderately competitive here as well and most likely will be even more competitive by 2020, but nothing like derm/ENT/plastics/Optho. But, I wouldn't pigeon-hole yourself into 2 specialties. You should be much more open-minded about what you would consider doing. As far as Canada vs. US, that's a decision you'll have to make on your own.

LOL every field is going to be super competitive in the future according to sdn. I can't wait until there's heresy on sdn about how you need 240+ step 1 and 2 to match to family medicine.
 
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That is why I am so terrified and discouraged. Goodness, for the first year alone, the debt will be over 59k. This is my salary right now and I love my salary and tolerate my job. I will be in debt at around 300k (tuition, CoA and interests), most of it is non-dischargeable. Just saying it, I want to projectile vomiting, literally. While it is true that I have access to around 100k loan from the bank of grandmother (mom and uncles, really) and as they say, the bank of grandmother has the cheapest interest rate if any, a total debt of 300k is mind = blown. Beside, it is just so humbling, infuriating and humiliating that I, now at 23, who is earning 59k a year have to bother my widowed mother and (also widowed) uncles for help. Even if that helps are happily given with big kind smiles, I just want to cry.
Live like a resident when you become an attending, you'll pay off your debt within 5 years.

Just another note: "an H1B visa is hard to get because the employers are reluctant to pay the fees associated with the H1B visa. It has been estimated that only about 3% are able to get H1B visas. [H1B visas are applied for by the employer. The employer must pay the application fee which is estimated to be $10,000 to $15,000. An H1B visa is valid for 3 years. The H1B visa can be renewed for another 3 years by the employer after which the physician may be eligible for a green card which entitles him to work in the USA without further obstacles. Employees are not entitled to pay this fee as to allow this would contravene employment laws.]"

With that being said, you will decrease lots of programs b/c they don't sponsor H1b, only give J1 instead. Moreover, you'll need to take USMLE Step 1 and 2CK and get stellar scores if you want to match into EM.
 
LOL every field is going to be super competitive in the future according to sdn. I can't wait until there's heresy on sdn about how you need 240+ step 1 and 2 to match to family medicine.

You mad because you're interested in EM? Like every other person on this forum that can't match derm/optho
 
You mad because you're interested in EM? Like every other person on this forum that can't match derm/optho

I'm not interested in EM. The more pertinent question is why are you interested in EM. Is it bc of the money?
 
I'm not interested in EM. The more pertinent question is why are you interested in EM. Is it bc of the money?

Nah. At the shop I worked at I got pretty close with the docs over the years and we talked about compensation and future reimbursement and it was generally agreed upon that it will most likely go down. CMGs are speeding that process up as well. Right now, free-standing EDs are where the money is, but legislation will eventually affect that. I had multiple jobs that I dreaded going to before working in the ED, but never dreaded a shift there in 4 years. I enjoyed the work and prefer the jack-of-all-trades gig. When I shadowed in clinics with a couple different specialties it was pretty terrible at times and I didn't enjoy it as much.
 
Nah. At the shop I worked at I got pretty close with the docs over the years and we talked about compensation and future reimbursement and it was generally agreed upon that it will most likely go down. CMGs are speeding that process up as well. Right now, free-standing EDs are where the money is, but legislation will eventually affect that. I had multiple jobs that I dreaded going to before working in the ED, but never dreaded a shift there in 4 years. I enjoyed the work and prefer the jack-of-all-trades gig. When I shadowed in clinics with a couple different specialties it was pretty terrible at times and I didn't enjoy it as much.

Yup, EM is hard work. I'm not going into a field in which I'm going to be burn out in 10 years. The money will go down. That is a clear fact. Any sucker who goes into EM for the money is going to get a rude awakening.
 
I want EM right now. I will not say that it is not about money, I mean, with the debt load, no med school or any one should lecture students on self-interest. Though, I seem to think that it is either FM or EM who are the 'real' doctors. EM is the jack of all trade, the kind of doctors you think doctors can be and I like the varieties of things that EM can do. As well, the fact that it is not on-call is a big bonus. While, FM is the guy that everyone go to. He is the one that has the relationship and talk to his patients (if he so wants). FM is the kind of doctors that we know in our mind (or atleast mine) of what doctors should look like.
 
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I go to MSUCOM , Trust me all the Canadians over here are not worried at all about the DO title because by the time you graduate and by the time I graduate most residencies will be AC GME accredited. You can go back to Canada and practice if you really want to but from the majority of the Canadians I've spoke to they want to stay in the US because at the end of the day they get paid more. I would not waste this opportunity because you will not get another one. It is difficult for Canadian applicants to get into American schools
 
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Hey OP, fellow Canadian here. I think you will be fine... Most people in Canada don't really know the DO path well enough to give you a reliable opinion, my friend thought we could only do OMM and nothing else until we talked about it.
As a Canadian yes it will be harder to match than your US classmates, although it shouldn't be THAT hard to match. You did mention that you only want EM/FM, these two are not super competitive specialties (EM more so than FM) in general. In addition, you don't NEED an H1B for these 2 specialties, a J1 will work too, if you want to stay in US after you can get a J-1 waiver job if you can live with it.

Overall, you should be fine, you will match if you work hard and keep those grades high. And just so you know, my tuition is 60k/year.
 
Just don't forget to renew your visa at the mandated times. My boss knew a neurosurgical resident in the 80s who forgot to renew, ended up being deported, and had to take a three year research break in Australia before the US allowed him to return and complete his residency.

Live like a resident when you become an attending, you'll pay off your debt within 5 years.

Just another note: "an H1B visa is hard to get because the employers are reluctant to pay the fees associated with the H1B visa. It has been estimated that only about 3% are able to get H1B visas. [H1B visas are applied for by the employer. The employer must pay the application fee which is estimated to be $10,000 to $15,000. An H1B visa is valid for 3 years. The H1B visa can be renewed for another 3 years by the employer after which the physician may be eligible for a green card which entitles him to work in the USA without further obstacles. Employees are not entitled to pay this fee as to allow this would contravene employment laws.]"

With that being said, you will decrease lots of programs b/c they don't sponsor H1b, only give J1 instead. Moreover, you'll need to take USMLE Step 1 and 2CK and get stellar scores if you want to match into EM.
 
I go to MSUCOM , Trust me all the Canadians over here are not worried at all about the DO title because by the time you graduate and by the time I graduate most residencies will be AC GME accredited. You can go back to Canada and practice if you really want to but from the majority of the Canadians I've spoke to they want to stay in the US because at the end of the day they get paid more. I would not waste this opportunity because you will not get another one. It is difficult for Canadian applicants to get into American schools

I will try not to waste it and I certainly feel blessed that I had such opportunity. As well, I am utterly grateful for the US loan that I access to (a necessity but horrible evil) that many Canadian do not. And, just like you said, if I am in US, I will most likely live there after residency for the better pay and familiarity.

Hey OP, fellow Canadian here. I think you will be fine... Most people in Canada don't really know the DO path well enough to give you a reliable opinion, my friend thought we could only do OMM and nothing else until we talked about it.
As a Canadian yes it will be harder to match than your US classmates, although it shouldn't be THAT hard to match. You did mention that you only want EM/FM, these two are not super competitive specialties (EM more so than FM) in general. In addition, you don't NEED an H1B for these 2 specialties, a J1 will work too, if you want to stay in US after you can get a J-1 waiver job if you can live with it.

Overall, you should be fine, you will match if you work hard and keep those grades high. And just so you know, my tuition is 60k/year.

Yes, at the moment, I am really interested with either EM or FM. People seems to find these two to be a strange combination to be so besotted on. I have never feel any pulls for those cool but stressful surgical specialties. Let others who are more competitive or want to play Gods be them. I know about my lot in life and not terrible ambitious. And really, how could EM is not competitive? It just seems very lovable with a mix of varieties and good wages.

Blessed Gods, 60k a year? Does it come with hotel room and luxurious concierge services? Nah, I'm joking. But, really, after visiting my accountant and getting rejected again from my local school, I feel like I am staring at the abyss this day.

As well, it is alright, if you don't want to say anything. But, how are holding up down south with the tanking Canadian dollar? I hope you are graduating soon.

So, at the moment, I am trying to familiarize myself with the idea of 300k debt load.
 
I will try not to waste it and I certainly feel blessed that I had such opportunity. As well, I am utterly grateful for the US loan that I access to (a necessity but horrible evil) that many Canadian do not. And, just like you said, if I am in US, I will most likely live there after residency for the better pay and familiarity.



Yes, at the moment, I am really interested with either EM or FM. People seems to find these two to be a strange combination to be so besotted on. I have never feel any pulls for those cool but stressful surgical specialties. Let others who are more competitive or want to play Gods be them. I know about my lot in life and not terrible ambitious. And really, how could EM is not competitive? It just seems very lovable with a mix of varieties and good wages.

Blessed Gods, 60k a year? Does it come with hotel room and luxurious concierge services? Nah, I'm joking. But, really, after visiting my accountant and getting rejected again from my local school, I feel like I am staring at the abyss this day.

As well, it is alright, if you don't want to say anything. But, how are holding up down south with the tanking Canadian dollar? I hope you are graduating soon.

So, at the moment, I am trying to familiarize myself with the idea of 300k debt load.

Hey, about the Canadian dollar thing..I was fortunate enough to have exchanged the US dollars before the CND plummet... I had a line of credit and they allowed me to take out the entire sum in one shot. However many of my Canadian classmates had to suffer some financial loss from the whole exchange ratio crash... Unfortunately we can't do much about it :(
 
Hey, about the Canadian dollar thing..I was fortunate enough to have exchanged the US dollars before the CND plummet... I had a line of credit and they allowed me to take out the entire sum in one shot. However many of my Canadian classmates had to suffer some financial loss from the whole exchange ratio crash... Unfortunately we can't do much about it :(

Urgh... money, why can't they just grow on tree? In anycase, could you please tell what is the name of your school? How could it be so expensive? I don't think there could any other schools more expensive than MSU? If you don't want it public, just PM me. Or, if you don't want to tell me, that is also alright.
 
90-95% of DO students get residencies. Many who do well, even (gasp) end up in competitive specialties.
Keep in mind, 99% of those are US citizens. OP needs a visa, which are limited to <300 in FM for example, from Health Canada
 
I want EM right now. I will not say that it is not about money, I mean, with the debt load, no med school or any one should lecture students on self-interest. Though, I seem to think that it is either FM or EM who are the 'real' doctors. EM is the jack of all trade, the kind of doctors you think doctors can be and I like the varieties of things that EM can do. As well, the fact that it is not on-call is a big bonus. While, FM is the guy that everyone go to. He is the one that has the relationship and talk to his patients (if he so wants). FM is the kind of doctors that we know in our mind (or atleast mine) of what doctors should look like.
Just keep in mind, until this (as in next) year, there was an unlimited # of J-1 visas issued for FM/EM. Starting next year, <300FM and <200EM J-1 visa's will be issued by health canada-for US MD, US DO, and Canadian grads combined. This WILL make things harder for everyone, but particularly DO since you have a slim-to-none chance of getting a residency in Canada.
Still possible, but it's going to be harder than ever before and no one can predict how much harder
 
Many Canadian DO's matched just yesterday in the AOA match. Some want to stay in the US and just went for AOA only programs(not yet recognized in Canada), while others applied to dually-accredited ACGME/AOA programs since they want to return to Canada. They matched into solid programs. At least 2 Canadian DO students matched into ENT-Facial Plastic Surgery programs... think they may have been AOA only accredited(thus they will have to stay in the states to practice), but regardless they matched and are obviously really happy. Most are on the H1B visa pathway, so they don't have to worry about Health Canada restrictions.

I'm sure COMSA will be working hard to collect metrics for how many Canadian DOs participated in the AOA match, and then as well whom will be participating in the ACGME match next month, and their outcomes. The class of 2016 is the first relatively big cohort of graduating Canadian DOs.

Of course, some Canadian DOs also interviewed in the CaRMS process also, but given that some of them matched in the AOA match - they will be thus pulled from final participation in CaRMS.
 
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Just keep in mind, until this (as in next) year, there was an unlimited # of J-1 visas issued for FM/EM. Starting next year, <300FM and <200EM J-1 visa's will be issued by health canada-for US MD, US DO, and Canadian grads combined. This WILL make things harder for everyone, but particularly DO since you have a slim-to-none chance of getting a residency in Canada.
Still possible, but it's going to be harder than ever before and no one can predict how much harder

The slim to non chance is no different than other IMGs for USDOs. Keep in mind though that BC is still CMG for USDOs, and Quebec is equal consideration for IMGs and CMGs alike - hence why USDOs generally have no problems getting interviews in CaRMS at McGill and UOttawa for example.
 
Keep in mind, 99% of those are US citizens. OP needs a visa, which are limited to <300 in FM for example, from Health Canada

Many Canadian DOs have indicated they didn't have much issue getting on the H1B pathway this cycle so far.
 
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Many Canadian DOs have indicated they didn't have much issue getting on the H1B pathway this cycle so far.
So happy for cad folks!!! Hope they represent us well, so we can jump into the same boat.

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Just keep in mind, until this (as in next) year, there was an unlimited # of J-1 visas issued for FM/EM. Starting next year, <300FM and <200EM J-1 visa's will be issued by health canada-for US MD, US DO, and Canadian grads combined. This WILL make things harder for everyone, but particularly DO since you have a slim-to-none chance of getting a residency in Canada.
Still possible, but it's going to be harder than ever before and no one can predict how much harder

Actually it won't be that big of a deal. A while ago COMSAE contacted health Canada, and apparently back when the J-1 is unlimited, there were only about 200 applicants for FM J-1. Hence the new "limit" is not going to affect the Canadians that much in reality, despite the apparent cut from infinite to 300.
 
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The slim to non chance is no different than other IMGs for USDOs. Keep in mind though that BC is still CMG for USDOs, and Quebec is equal consideration for IMGs and CMGs alike - hence why USDOs generally have no problems getting interviews in CaRMS at McGill and UOttawa for example.
Is Quebec considering DO as CMG too? I'm from Quebec but I haven't looked into it yet. Although I do expect that they will want us to take the French test...
 
Is Quebec considering DO as CMG too? I'm from Quebec but I haven't looked into it yet. Although I do expect that they will want us to take the French test...

In Quebec, we will not be considered as IMG. However, we will have our work cut out for us. We need to do the medical exams but, at the end of it all, we will be allowed to compete in Regular route (or contingent regulier). If you are a quebec high school grad, you do not need to do the french test to be qualified. As well, you will not be served with the dreaded ROS, which can be horrifying for those who know about rural quebecois. Rural midwest cannot compare to rural northern quebec, at least midwest has relatively good weather. Try living in the Cote Nord or Gaspe region, you will know the true definition of boring, dead cold and desolation in 3 weeks.
The good news, though, for those who entertained the thought of Quebec is that the province often has the highest rate of unfilled residency vacancies in Canada ranging from everything to everything.

For example, Université Laval has 3 derm positions and a smattering of FM, IM remained in 2015. USheerbrooke has urology. UdeM has Rad. So, if you can deal with Quebec oddities, you should go for it.

Edit: please note that all the above positions are not even considered as competitive by CaRM.
Sources: A family relative who is a program director at UdeM hospital.
 
Just keep in mind, until this (as in next) year, there was an unlimited # of J-1 visas issued for FM/EM. Starting next year, <300FM and <200EM J-1 visa's will be issued by health canada-for US MD, US DO, and Canadian grads combined. This WILL make things harder for everyone, but particularly DO since you have a slim-to-none chance of getting a residency in Canada.
Still possible, but it's going to be harder than ever before and no one can predict how much harder

This seems more than enough to be honest.... considering only ~400 Canadians in total apply to US residencies every year according to NRMP.
 
In Quebec, we will not be considered as IMG. However, we will have our work cut out for us. We need to do the medical exams but, at the end of it all, we will be allowed to compete in Regular route (or contingent regulier). If you are a quebec high school grad, you do not need to do the french test to be qualified. As well, you will not be served with the dreaded ROS, which can be horrifying for those who know about rural quebecois. Rural midwest cannot compare to rural northern quebec, at least midwest has relatively good weather. Try living in the Cote Nord or Gaspe region, you will know the true definition of boring, dead cold and desolation in 3 weeks.
The good news, though, for those who entertained the thought of Quebec is that the province often has the highest rate of unfilled residency vacancies in Canada ranging from everything to everything.

For example, Université Laval has 3 derm positions and a smattering of FM, IM remained in 2015. USheerbrooke has urology. UdeM has Rad. So, if you can deal with Quebec oddities, you should go for it.

Edit: please note that all the above positions are not even considered as competitive by CaRM.
Sources: A family relative who is a program director at UdeM hospital.

Actually that's not bad at all! Basically we just need to take the Canadian board right? I probably will need to do the French test as I spent the first year of high school in "class d'accueil"...
 
Actually that's not bad at all! Basically we just need to take the Canadian board right? I probably will need to do the French test as I spent the first year of high school in "class d'accueil"...

I don't think you need to do french test if you graduated from a Quebec High school (even english one). However, :p from your french (it is classe d'accueil; it is feminine), you should take additional classes. ;)

But, back to the point, yep, Quebec is not the most horrible place if you can snag that derm from Laval.
Here is the source that my relative requested that I should post: http://carms.ca/pdfs/RsaM842R36_1OverviewByUniversity_EN.pdf .

Really, many places in Quebec are desperate for residents like my relative's programs.
 
I don't think you need to do french test if you graduated from a Quebec High school (even english one). However, :p from your french (it is classe d'accueil; it is feminine), you should take additional classes. ;)

But, back to the point, yep, Quebec is not the most horrible place if you can snag that derm from Laval.
Here is the source that my relative requested that I should post: http://carms.ca/pdfs/RsaM842R36_1OverviewByUniversity_EN.pdf .

Really, many places in Quebec are desperate for residents like my relative's programs.

Lol you're right, I haven't spoken French since I left high school so I probably should brush up on that (btw have you heard they are changing the rules of French grammar? It sounds totally crazy lol). Quebec does sounds fascinating from this point of view lol, it's 1 more test but it does open a lot of doors! Thanks for letting me know.
 
Lol you're right, I haven't spoken French since I left high school so I probably should brush up on that (btw have you heard they are changing the rules of French grammar? It sounds totally crazy lol). Quebec does sounds fascinating from this point of view lol, it's 1 more test but it does open a lot of doors! Thanks for letting me know.

Oh, you don't need to do any French test to be qualified if you are a graduate of Quebec High school system (including the English schools, i.e. EMSB...). From above, I just want to suggest that it would be of benefit to us that we should do more French classes so that we may communicate with patients. According to my relative, he said, even in the french system, your supervisor will most likely speak English with you if requested. Finally, if you would love to do GP, you are gold. Last year, after the first iteration, there were more than 50% of unfilled residency spots. Most of those spots are GP and in the French system. Some programs are so desperate that they would go out of province yearly to convince students to apply to Quebec. Many programs offer free hotels and transportation from airports if you would just come to interview. Some program directors, my relatives said, would even offer free spa and skiing on Mont Tremblant if these are not illegal and constitute bribery.(And they used to !?!?!)
All these desperation are strange for Quebec since it could easily solve its shortage by just admitting IMG. They, however, made it hard for any IMG to ever apply.

This is also the reason why I am not so very bitter (just very) with the small the intake at McGill. Half (or even more) of McGill grad just move out of Province once they graduate. It can be a hard sell to the government to increase class size at McGill.
 
In Quebec, we will not be considered as IMG. However, we will have our work cut out for us. We need to do the medical exams but, at the end of it all, we will be allowed to compete in Regular route (or contingent regulier). If you are a quebec high school grad, you do not need to do the french test to be qualified. As well, you will not be served with the dreaded ROS, which can be horrifying for those who know about rural quebecois. Rural midwest cannot compare to rural northern quebec, at least midwest has relatively good weather. Try living in the Cote Nord or Gaspe region, you will know the true definition of boring, dead cold and desolation in 3 weeks.
The good news, though, for those who entertained the thought of Quebec is that the province often has the highest rate of unfilled residency vacancies in Canada ranging from everything to everything.

For example, Université Laval has 3 derm positions and a smattering of FM, IM remained in 2015. USheerbrooke has urology. UdeM has Rad. So, if you can deal with Quebec oddities, you should go for it.

Edit: please note that all the above positions are not even considered as competitive by CaRM.
Sources: A family relative who is a program director at UdeM hospital.

Yeah, the lucky enough ones with french language abilities really do have a very solid "in" with Quebec.
 
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Hi everyone,

I know this is late, but I have a question about this. I'm also a Canadian who is going to interview at MSUCOM this year, for entry to the class of 2021. I'm confused about the numbers given here, they seem very low. Regarding the 260k-270k level of debt, is that just for tuition? For Canadians, I thought the expected level of debt would be much higher than this, in the range of 600k+ (I'm getting this number from the Canadian budget from the website, which I've linked). Am I missing something? Any help would be highly appreciated.

http://com.msu.edu/Admissions/Documents/15-16 Med Budgets-OM- Canadian.pdf



Hi everyone,

I have already posted this message in the Canadian version of this forum.


I just want to get your opinions about things in US. Now that, I have rejected on my third tries in Canada and waitlisted for interview in a few Canadian schools. I am ready to to throw the towel in with medical schools in Canada. The good news is that I have a ready acceptance in US at MSUCOM (so the DO programs). The bad news is the 51k (I have the Canadian scholarship) a year price tag excluded the living cost. So, I will be in debt to the tune of 260 to 270k after all things said and done. I have a US co-signer who is willing to sign the loan but it is still quarter of a million dollar debt. While my debt will be pegged in US dollar, OMG the exchange rate is just so horrible and I keep thinking in the Canadian equivalent of my debt. How do people deal with it right now?

My Concerns:

Many people I've talked to seem so down heavily on DO. Is it difficult to get residency in US in 2020 (the year I'll graduate)? How secure and safe is the route for Canadian DO since I'll need H1B visa? Would any Canadian DO here do it again right now? I just want to be either a FM or an EM. Even though, I'm trying to imagine paying off the loan with a FM salary.


I know, for a fact, that it will be hard to come back to Canada and I have made my peace with it. Beside, I rather feel that I would want to work in US when I graduate from US school. However, the first step that I must take to leave Canada is truly a difficult one since I have never been anywhere but here.

So, advices and opinions here please. I am very stressed and terrified of what the future might bring. I was told once that Change is a double-edged sword; you might not like so much after all. My family doctor (who is my godfather, random fact) also once told me that dream job is so overrated and he doesn't feel any more blessed or richer than his accountant.

Thanks so much for any inputs.
 
Hi everyone,

I know this is late, but I have a question about this. I'm also a Canadian who is going to interview at MSUCOM this year, for entry to the class of 2021. I'm confused about the numbers given here, they seem very low. Regarding the 260k-270k level of debt, is that just for tuition? For Canadians, I thought the expected level of debt would be much higher than this, in the range of 600k+ (I'm getting this number from the Canadian budget from the website, which I've linked). Am I missing something? Any help would be highly appreciated.

http://com.msu.edu/Admissions/Documents/15-16 Med Budgets-OM- Canadian.pdf
What kind of addition are you doing? They're showing >100K per year for 4 years, in US dollars......
 
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