Can't decide! Physician, Nurse practitioner, CRNA, or Physician assistant?

[ZBlue17]

Okay, so I'm a high schooler applying for college next year, and I'm thinking about where I want to be in the future (because it impacts what my major will be). Deciding a major is something that I feel requires ALOT of thought, which is why I'm thinking now!
So, I really want to study medicine. It's not until now that I've been looking online and seeing SO MANY negative things about being an MD that I'm like "Oh no!!" So I've come up with a few alternatives so that I don't feel like I HAVE to be a physician.
My alternatives are nurse practitioner, CRNA, and Physician assistant. The problem I have with becoming a physician is the debt, the age I'll be when I actually start actually working, the taking over your life aspect, and the "wasting your twenties" (as many on forums have said). However, despite all this, I still want to do it!!! However, I'm thinking, in my late 20s/early thirties I want to have a family, and do all that mom stuff, and I'm just scared that being a doctor won't work well with this lifestyle (esp a doctor with so much debt).
So, I feel like being a CRNA, P.A, or N.P, would allow me to have a good family life. But, I also feel like these professions also require as extensive amount of schooling (though not as much as an MD), and I would still have a large (though not as large) amount of debt from getting these degrees, so why not go the extra mile to become an MD (which is what I really want).
What do you guys thing? What have been your experiences as an MD, CRNA, N.P, or P.A? Or do you know of someone else's experience?

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[estukay]

How about enjoying life. Seriously, it's your senior year. You'll have plenty of time to worry and decide on your decision.

 

[ZBlue17]

How about enjoying life. Seriously, it's your senior year. You'll have plenty of time to worry and decide on your decision.

Actually, I won't because I'm applying for college NOW. Depending on what I decide, I'll apply for the college of nursing. If I decide on doing pre-med, then I'll apply as a history major.

Thanks for replying, but I find it rude how people who like doing things at the last minute look down on those who actually like being prepared. So what, would you prefer I decide major the night before a college application is
due? Or how about after I graduate from college, after already obtaining a useless undergraduate degree?

 

[samac]

Actually, I won't because I'm applying for college NOW. Depending on what I decide, I'll apply for the college of nursing. If I decide on doing pre-med, then I'll apply as a history major.

Thanks for replying, but I find it rude how people who like doing things at the last minute look down on those who actually like being prepared. So what, would you prefer I decide major the night before a college application is
due? Or how about after I graduate from college, after already obtaining a useless undergraduate degree?

You can be any major and become a physician as long as you take the pre reqs, so you can major in something you enjoy. Make sure medicine is for you. Shadow a NP, PA, and MD so you enjoy it. Take gen eds for your first year while you decide.

 

[Pusheen]

Look up medical model and nursing model. That helped me understand some of the differences. Do a lot of research on these professions, shadow if you can.
As to "mom stuff", I had similar worries. For me, I just realized that I wouldn't be happy as a nurse or PA, I wanted the education and knowledge of a physician. I'm way happier as a pre-med than I ever was doing anything else. Don't disregard what you really want for a pie-in-the-sky idea of having to be a mom and have kids. Who knows how that will pan out. Be true to yourself and you'll find a way to make it work. Plenty of women do.
From what I can tell, the medical field is becoming more friendly to part-time work and time off for mothers. I won't comment any more since I'm not terribly knowledgeable on that.

 

[NickNaylor]

If you "can't decide," that indicates to me that you should do some more research on what the different fields entail and what the overall "end-game" looks like. All four roles have different training paths and ultimately result in different but related work.

In terms of having a family, it is certainly possible even in a physician training program if you make it a priority. Some specialties may be "out" in terms of lifestyle if that's a goal for you, but there are several specialties of varying competitiveness which are particularly amenable to lifestyle. Being a physician does not in and of itself prevent you from having children and a family.

 

[Mr. Beefy Lion]

Nothing said in this forum should persuade you to one profession. You should figure out what you actually want to do by shadowing, volunteering, and experiencing for yourself. I understand your concern for figuring out what you want to do but it's important to realize that you do have time. You can always change your major in college, it's not the end of the world. A far worse situation would be deciding/commiting to a profession now when you aren't sure and finding out you hate it when it is too late.

 

[Tradewinds]

I agree with Dan up there, I'm and RN of 4 years who is headed to med school in August...things can change, even a few years down the road. For now, my best advice is to shadow the different professions you are considering! It will help! Also, I'm assuming your local nursing program is a freshman admit program? If so, maybe just submit the application and buy yourself some decision time. If you change your mind you can always switch majors. To be on the safe side, I also recommend that if your nursing program gives you the option to take the 'premed' level of bio and gen chem or the nursing level, take the premed level so that if you change your mind the classes are applicable either way.

 

[emraldragon]

Actually, I won't because I'm applying for college NOW. Depending on what I decide, I'll apply for the college of nursing. If I decide on doing pre-med, then I'll apply as a history major.

Thanks for replying, but I find it rude how people who like doing things at the last minute look down on those who actually like being prepared. So what, would you prefer I decide major the night before a college application is
due? Or how about after I graduate from college, after already obtaining a useless undergraduate degree?

I felt the same thing about making all of the big decisions before I went to college. Fortune favors the prepared mind after all. I would apply to regular undergrad rather than nursing school. You can always start out taking your nursing pre-reqs (there will definitely be crossovers in the pre-reqs so they will go for nursing, PA or MD) and then transfer into a BSN program. I believe with the way nursing is heading lately, anything less than a BSN will not allow you the career flexibility you desire and the ability to go on to NP or CRNA if you desire. And as Tradewinds said, take the pre-med version of the pre-reqs rather than the pre-nursing. It sucks to take chemistry twice.

 

[Gandyy]

Scope of potential practice is much larger as a physician and level of potential impact a physician can make on a patient's life is much greater than other healthcare professions. That is the only real difference between a physician and many of the other typical healthcare professionals in a hospital setting. Even Nurse Practitioner's and PA's can prescribe the majority of medicines a physician can, however their DEA license does not allow them to prescribe "scheduled" prescriptions according to the doctor I shadowed. Physicians receive MUCH MORE training on diagnosing and treating patients as well.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Shadow doctors. If you find that you like what they do, it won't matter to you what negative things you read on the internet.

 

[Psai]

be a crna. make doctor money and call yourself a doctor without putting in real doctor hours, doctor effort or doctor education

 

[Gandyy]

be a crna. make doctor money and call yourself a doctor without putting in real doctor hours, doctor effort or doctor education

But your scope of practice is so utterly limited. Unless of course you were going to do Anesthesiology anyways after med school.

 

[releehw]

Major in nursing and if you decide you want to be a PA or MD then go from there once you've got your bachelors. Just do well on grades.

 

[Psai]

But your scope of practice is so utterly limited. Unless of course you were going to do Anesthesiology anyways after med school.

explain what scope of practice is and what is limited

 

[acleidigh]

Hey girl I'm with you. Like literally the SAME boat. I wanted to do CRNA, I thought I was positive on it, but you are risking SO MUCH. everyone keeps telling me hospitals will not hire new grads into the ICU. so there's 2 years there and all crna programs are changing to DNP's which will be three years. By that point you've invested 9 years so why not go to medical school. However I can't afford medical school and all the physicians I shadowed told me not to go. Pa's don't get compensated for how much they do or else I'd go that route. So now I can't decide between PA, chancing crna, or being a miserable pharmacist. Isn't life fun? Oh and I have to submit my college applications by September 1st.

 

[Mr. Beefy Lion]

Ive heard that if you apply to medical school right after you complete your nursing degree ad coms look at this unfavorably as it is seen as "jumping ship". Does anyone with more experience know if this holds any truth? I probably would have guessed they would have an advantage because of all the clinical exposure they have from training.

 

[MyNameWasUsed]

I was on md route and changed to PA but i think CRNA is the most efficient one in terms of hours and salary. I would do CRNA or computer science if given a time machine.

 

[SitraAchra]

Actually, I won't because I'm applying for college NOW. Depending on what I decide, I'll apply for the college of nursing. If I decide on doing pre-med, then I'll apply as a history major.

Thanks for replying, but I find it rude how people who like doing things at the last minute look down on those who actually like being prepared. So what, would you prefer I decide major the night before a college application is
due? Or how about after I graduate from college, after already obtaining a useless undergraduate degree?

You are relying on a forum of people, the majority of whom have not made it into med school, to advise you on what your immediate choice of major/life goal should be and still haven't narrowed it down between a variety of career paths. You need to do more research on each profession. Or, you know, just pick and enjoy college and if you change your major you probably won't die.

 

[SitraAchra]

By that point you've invested 9 years so why not go to medical school. However I can't afford medical school and all the physicians I shadowed told me not to go.

Not all years are equal. Big difference between 9 and 12 years. Also a big difference in the rigor of training between RN/CRNA and MD.

 

[Wiesal]

Family isn't compatible with all specialties, but that doesn't mean you can't have a family and be happy. Also, just because you start out as a Pre-Med doesn't mean you're obligated to become a DO/MD.

 

[acleidigh]

I was on md route and changed to PA but i think CRNA is the most efficient one in terms of hours and salary. I would do CRNA or computer science if given a time machine.

Can you elaborate more on why you chose PA over medical school?

 

[MyNameWasUsed]

Can you elaborate more on why you chose PA over medical school?

To me it's all about what you value in life and how much are things worth to you. I think the only valid reason to go MD instead of anything else in healthcare is the knowledge. Some people want to be "top dog" but that isn't a valid reason because you would never say that to an adcom. Helping people is a reason but you can help people in thousands of other ways. So it all comes down to what that knowledge is worth to you. It wasn't worth enough for me to sacrifice my 20s going to medical school and completing a residency. At the end of a day, it's just a job. I have other interests in life beside medicine.

Also, you can get into ICU right after nursing school. I've heard of many success stories. I don't think the chances are that slim. Getting into ICU as fresh nursing grad is easier than getting into medical school as fresh grad.

 

[allantois]

But your scope of practice is so utterly limited. Unless of course you were going to do Anesthesiology anyways after med school.

Umm, the only thing hospitals care about is paying the person doing anesthesia as little as possible: so they will hire a bunch of CRNAs or AAs and a few anesthesiologists to oversee them if something happens put a blame on. So your scope of practice as a CRNA is not at all limited. Other docs are not immune, either.

 

[Gandyy]

Umm, the only thing hospitals care about is paying the person doing anesthesia as little as possible: so they will hire a bunch of CRNAs or AAs and a few anesthesiologists to oversee them if something happens put a blame on. So your scope of practice as a CRNA is not at all limited. Other docs are not immune, either.

I do not think your pessimistic view on "other docs" is accurate.

 

[AsianPersuasion]

Just base on work experience, I truly believe the "lifestyle" is what you make of it. I've seen PAs work MORE hours than some of the doctors. At our neuro ICU floor, the PA runs the floor from minute to minute.

So I don't know where people get these ideas that some how mid-levels automatically work less hours and magically have more time to have babies and live a lushes life. Our PAs takes call from home and even do consults. Obviously if anything is beyond their scope the doctors will step in.

And believe it or not, there's a special dynamic that PA and MD/DO have together. It's like this bond where they look out for one another and cover each others back. I haven't really seen this hostile attitude where the doctors feel that PAs are taking over etc like SDN make of it...then again, I'm a CNA so this is n=1 from working and shadowing.

You need to be honest with yourself and figure out what's exactly is important to you and what you want in life. That's only way you'll make sound decisions. And I feel that if you regret anything later on, just remember that at one point, you wanted it and you went for it.

 

[allantois]

I do not think your pessimistic view on "other docs" is accurate.

Funny, but my pessimism stems from shadowed doctors. I was extraordinarily optimistic prior to that.

Anyway, I think as long as one is going into medicine/CRNA/PA/NP for the right reasons, they should be happy with their choice.

 

[Mad Jack]

Okay, so I'm a high schooler applying for college next year, and I'm thinking about where I want to be in the future (because it impacts what my major will be). Deciding a major is something that I feel requires ALOT of thought, which is why I'm thinking now!
So, I really want to study medicine. It's not until now that I've been looking online and seeing SO MANY negative things about being an MD that I'm like "Oh no!!" So I've come up with a few alternatives so that I don't feel like I HAVE to be a physician.
My alternatives are nurse practitioner, CRNA, and Physician assistant. The problem I have with becoming a physician is the debt, the age I'll be when I actually start actually working, the taking over your life aspect, and the "wasting your twenties" (as many on forums have said). However, despite all this, I still want to do it!!! However, I'm thinking, in my late 20s/early thirties I want to have a family, and do all that mom stuff, and I'm just scared that being a doctor won't work well with this lifestyle (esp a doctor with so much debt).
So, I feel like being a CRNA, P.A, or N.P, would allow me to have a good family life. But, I also feel like these professions also require as extensive amount of schooling (though not as much as an MD), and I would still have a large (though not as large) amount of debt from getting these degrees, so why not go the extra mile to become an MD (which is what I really want).
What do you guys thing? What have been your experiences as an MD, CRNA, N.P, or P.A? Or do you know of someone else's experience?

Enjoy your first year of undergrad and think it over. You're way too young to be planning the rest of your life. Take some science courses and try to get good grades while enjoying yourself while you think about it. You don't have to decide right now, nor should you. Let some of that prefrontal cortex fill out and it'll all become clear.

 

[Mad Jack]

To me it's all about what you value in life and how much are things worth to you. I think the only valid reason to go MD instead of anything else in healthcare is the knowledge. Some people want to be "top dog" but that isn't a valid reason because you would never say that to an adcom. Helping people is a reason but you can help people in thousands of other ways. So it all comes down to what that knowledge is worth to you. It wasn't worth enough for me to sacrifice my 20s going to medical school and completing a residency. At the end of a day, it's just a job. I have other interests in life beside medicine.

Also, you can get into ICU right after nursing school. I've heard of many success stories. I don't think the chances are that slim. Getting into ICU as fresh nursing grad is easier than getting into medical school as fresh grad.

ICU out of nursing school is basically impossible in many areas. It really depends on how much you geographically limit yourself- anywhere desirable will be completely saturated.

 

[Chir0nex]

Okay, so I'm a high schooler applying for college next year, and I'm thinking about where I want to be in the future (because it impacts what my major will be). Deciding a major is something that I feel requires ALOT of thought, which is why I'm thinking now!
So, I really want to study medicine. It's not until now that I've been looking online and seeing SO MANY negative things about being an MD that I'm like "Oh no!!" So I've come up with a few alternatives so that I don't feel like I HAVE to be a physician.
My alternatives are nurse practitioner, CRNA, and Physician assistant. The problem I have with becoming a physician is the debt, the age I'll be when I actually start actually working, the taking over your life aspect, and the "wasting your twenties" (as many on forums have said). However, despite all this, I still want to do it!!! However, I'm thinking, in my late 20s/early thirties I want to have a family, and do all that mom stuff, and I'm just scared that being a doctor won't work well with this lifestyle (esp a doctor with so much debt).
So, I feel like being a CRNA, P.A, or N.P, would allow me to have a good family life. But, I also feel like these professions also require as extensive amount of schooling (though not as much as an MD), and I would still have a large (though not as large) amount of debt from getting these degrees, so why not go the extra mile to become an MD (which is what I really want).
What do you guys thing? What have been your experiences as an MD, CRNA, N.P, or P.A? Or do you know of someone else's experience?

It sounds like there are a couple of issues. To begin with, I'm guessing you haven't done much shadowing of Doctors or Nurses, so I woul be hesitant to commit to either course now, without a real knowledge of the work involved. Even if you apply to nursing college, how do you know you actually would enjoy studying nursing in the first place?

It also sounds like a lot of your concern is with the cost of training and practice. I'll say this, Docs, PAs and Nurses all can have fairly variable lengths of training, as well as work hours. Working as a nurse will not necessarily be easier than being doctor, and while the debt is lower, the pay scale is as well.
I also think it is entirely legitimate to be concerned about wanting to have a family However, it is completely possible to have kids and be a doc. I have numerous classmates who had children while in medical school, and met many residents who had kids during their residency as well (both men and woman). Is it hard? Yes, of course But if you want to be a doc and have kids you certainly can do so. The amount of time you have for your family also will depedn on your specialty. If you are a pediatrician then you will likely have partners who are in the same boat and can cover for you as needed. If you are gen surge then get ready to miss a lot of the daily life of your kid. And again, while your debt load is high as a doctor, in the vast majority of cases you will have a salary sufficient to cover this cost.

In your case I think you are freaking out about factors before you have really addressed the fundamental question of if you really would be happy in any of the fields you mentioned (again guessing you haven't shadowed in all of them). I would suggest you don't do a dedicated nursing program, and instead do liberal arts or whatever. Take the time to shadow in medicine and nursing, as well as explore non-healthcare fields, and then decide what you are truly passionate about. I totally get that you are anxious to have a plan for your life, but at the same time taking taking a few years to explore options is really minor in the course of you career.

 

[MyNameWasUsed]

ICU out of nursing school is basically impossible in many areas. It really depends on how much you geographically limit yourself- anywhere desirable will be completely saturated.

What about getting into ICU during year 2? If that's more likely then I think it's still worth it to go CRNA for OP cause those two years you're still making 50k+

OP you have not gone through college yet but after 4 years of more schooling you might not want to go to any sort of graduate school for a year or two. If you do the CRNA route you can graduate and work as a nurse for 1-2 years and live life man. I just graduated and work full time at the hospital. So far this has been a pretty dam good summer.

 

[Mad Jack]

What about getting into ICU during year 2? If that's more likely then I think it's still worth it to go CRNA for OP cause those two years you're still making 50k+

OP you have not gone through college yet but after 4 years of more schooling you might not want to go to any sort of graduate school for a year or two. If you do the CRNA route you can graduate and work as a nurse for 1-2 years and live life man. I just graduated and work full time at the hospital. So far this has been a pretty dam good summer.

There's also the fact that there is a glut of CRNAs and the job market is questionable in many areas, which will probably bring wages down and lead to unemployment in the future. Many grads in my area have had to move to BFE for employment.

You should also keep in mind that 1- medical school isn't that bad, you have tons of time to enjoy yourself in the first two years and forth year, and 2- while your job seems great now, you will tire of it and likely feel you sold yourself short if you end up languishing in it. Earning 50k a year seems so great when you've been in college for years, but you soon realize that it isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Not that medical school is perfect, but the way I look at it, CRNA is usually an 8-9 year path that pays for 2-3 of them. Medical school is a 11-12 year path that pays you for 3-4 of those years and results in far higher earnings and opportunities, depending on the field. If anesthesia collapses or you can't become a CRNA (of the well over 100 nurses that I knew who admitting to wanting the CRNA route, only one has made it, most just got complacent as nurses and never went back), your earnings are capped at around 100k. If you are in medical school, and the anesthesia job market collapses, your earnings floor in any other field is around 200k and you get to actually be fairly independent rather than be a subordinate with a higher authority to answer to, which is the case for 80% of the NPs out there.

 

[pageantry]

Just to add to what's been said, it's shortsighted to say, "Being a doctor is just more knowledge, if that's the kind of thing you like."

Knowledge is responsibility and a toolbox. If you're a creative, people-oriented person (or even not people oriented) you'll find all kinds of fun things to do with a good toolbox. If you knew what those things were now, it wouldn't be any fun figuring it out.

What I wish I knew before starting college (and I really wish people didn't start college as teenagers, and fully regret doing so myself), is that you will get the most out of your education by looking at it as training opportunities and chances to meet people who inspire you, and who you can inspire.

Think about the skills you want when you're middle aged and what kinds of things you want to be able to do. Don't think about jobs. Jobs are changing. Work on awesome skills.

 

[Gandyy]

Just base on work experience, I truly believe the "lifestyle" is what you make of it. I've seen PAs work MORE hours than some of the doctors. At our neuro ICU floor, the PA runs the floor from minute to minute.

So I don't know where people get these ideas that some how mid-levels automatically work less hours and magically have more time to have babies and live a lushes life. Our PAs takes call from home and even do consults. Obviously if anything is beyond their scope the doctors will step in.

And believe it or not, there's a special dynamic that PA and MD/DO have together. It's like this bond where they look out for one another and cover each others back. I haven't really seen this hostile attitude where the doctors feel that PAs are taking over etc like SDN make of it...then again, I'm a CNA so this is n=1 from working and shadowing.

You need to be honest with yourself and figure out what's exactly is important to you and what you want in life. That's only way you'll make sound decisions. And I feel that if you regret anything later on, just remember that at one point, you wanted it and you went for it.

I've worked and volunteered in many hospitals now, and I have to agree with a bolded statement above.

Most of the time its pretty strong teamwork occurring. However, I've had private conversations with some docs about mid level providers and they have said less than favorable things about mid level providers.

 

[AsianPersuasion]

I've worked and volunteered in many hospitals now, and I have to agree with a bolded statement above.

Most of the time its pretty strong teamwork occurring. However, I've had private conversations with some docs about mid level providers and they have said less than favorable things about mid level providers.

I've heard things like "so and so missed managed this patient and should've done blah blah blah" But not to an extent like "John Doe is taking over my job and basically the profession etc"

I mean, I'm sure SOME may feel that way, but after working with all of them, both doc and PAs (some NPs, but they're not utilized so much in our neuro ICU) they're pretty honest group of folks and I feel that if there's something bothering them they will voice it. Then again, they might keep it on the low and keep it professional.

Like I said, the whole better lifestyle thing is really what you make of it. But these PAs that work with are not working short of anything less than 50 hrs a week. When I'm there, they're there. When I'm leaving they're still there. One of our doc had his anniversary dinner the other day and after everyone was settling in, his PA took the pager, floor and consults etc. And when it comes to salary etc, in my area (NE) the PA is making 110K /year. I don't know how much the doc makes, I'm not that close with them to discuss those things.

 

[Gandyy]

I've heard things like "so and so missed managed this patient and should've done blah blah blah" But not to an extent like "John Doe is taking over my job and basically the profession etc"

I mean, I'm sure SOME may feel that way, but after working with all of them, both doc and PAs (some NPs, but they're not utilized so much in our neuro ICU) they're pretty honest group of folks and I feel that if there's something bothering them they will voice it. Then again, they might keep it on the low and keep it professional.

Like I said, the whole better lifestyle thing is really what you make of it. But these PAs that work with are not working short of anything less than 50 hrs a week. When I'm there, they're there. When I'm leaving they're still there. One of our doc had his anniversary dinner the other day and after everyone was settling in, his PA took the pager, floor and consults etc. And when it comes to salary etc, in my area (NE) the PA is making 110K /year. I don't know how much the doc makes, I'm not that close with them to discuss those things.

Yea but in my mind, mismanaging patients is pretty serious and if it happens as much as docs have told me... thats not good.

 

[AsianPersuasion]

Yea but in my mind, mismanaging patients is pretty serious and if it happens as much as docs have told me... thats not good.

I completely agree with you on that. But that's not the argument, what I'm saying is I've never heard them say things along the topic of mid-level taking over their jobs. Miss managing is a whole other topic and animal by itself that I'm not gonna dive into because I don't have enough experience to say that the call the PA made at the time was bad etc. That's up to the doc and PA to fight that out.

 

[Gandyy]

I completely agree with you on that. But that's not the argument, what I'm saying is I've never heard them say things along the topic of mid-level taking over their jobs. Miss managing is a whole other topic and animal by itself that I'm not gonna dive into because I don't have enough experience to say that the call the PA made at the time was bad etc. That's up to the doc and PA to fight that out.

Fair enough.

 

[acleidigh]

There's also the fact that there is a glut of CRNAs and the job market is questionable in many areas, which will probably bring wages down and lead to unemployment in the future. Many grads in my area have had to move to BFE for employment.

I have to completely disagree with this. There are so many people on sdn too focused with job saturation and wages. No one can predict the next six years. And you could say that for any occupation, police, pharmacy, etc. I think it's hard to be unemployed in any medical career because the human body is pretty fragile if you ask me.

 

[DokterMom]

Don't major in nursing, because that makes your decision for you now, and if you're looking at other (related) options (as you should be), you want to make a choice that will move you in the right direction. Nursing may not, since the [watered down] nursing science classes will not, in most cases, transfer over to the med school required versions. Pre-med classes will transfer over toward nursing, PA, or any of the other numerous healthcare options you didn't mention - physical, occupational or speech therapy, podiatry, dentistry, ophthalmology, genetics counseling, etc.

Realize that taking med school pre-requisites in college and not doing really well in them may help make the choice for you. That's an unfortunate reality more than half of the people in your position now have to face... But doing well in them may give you the confidence to know you can succeed in medical school and as a physician.

"Wasting your 20's"... As someone whose 20's are long gone and weren't spent in medical school, let me assure you that you won't waste your 20's if you invest them building your future. Spend them making fancy coffees at Starbucks and partying with your friends at night? That's wasting them. While medical school is exhausting, it can also be extremely rewarding -- in some ways, some of the best years of your life. Same with residency. Just because they're hard doesn't mean they're bad. And frankly, the whole idea that your 20's are being wasted while all of your friends' 20's are not is kind of offensive to your colleagues in other professions. Early-year lawyers, engineers, management consultants, IT developers, investment bankers (and basically anything else you'd really want to do) ALSO work killer hours in their 20's. At least the successful ones do.

Having babies can wait until your mid 30's. It really can. And unless you're a really old high school student, that still gives you plenty of time to get through college, med school and most residencies before your eggs start to go bad. Give up your preferred career (probably forever) to have kids a few years earlier? Sounds like 'seeds of regret' to me.

I think you're smart to be thinking about all of this. But at this stage in your life, finding the best college (best for you, not the same as 'most prestigious) and taking classes that won't close off options is going to be the best course.

 

[W19]

To me it's all about what you value in life and how much are things worth to you. I think the only valid reason to go MD instead of anything else in healthcare is the knowledge. Some people want to be "top dog" but that isn't a valid reason because you would never say that to an adcom. Helping people is a reason but you can help people in thousands of other ways. So it all comes down to what that knowledge is worth to you. It wasn't worth enough for me to sacrifice my 20s going to medical school and completing a residency. At the end of a day, it's just a job. I have other interests in life beside medicine.

Also, you can get into ICU right after nursing school. I've heard of many success stories. I don't think the chances are that slim. Getting into ICU as fresh nursing grad is easier than getting into medical school as fresh grad.

I have seen that sentence repeated so often here and I am not even sure what it means... Sure that med students in their 20s have more time constraint than most other people, but you are not sacrificing your 20s because you are in med school... I am a non trad student and I have noticed my classmates that are in their 20s doing the same thing that I did when I was in my 20s, except that they are in med school and I was working. A lot of them party; they go to the beach, to the gym, and they travel because they can afford it (many are from upper middle class families)....I am in MS2; so maybe things will be different in MS3/MS4 and residency...

 

[Mad Jack]

I have to completely disagree with this. There are so many people on sdn too focused with job saturation and wages. No one can predict the next six years. And you could say that for any occupation, police, pharmacy, etc. I think it's hard to be unemployed in any medical career because the human body is pretty fragile if you ask me.

You won't be unemployed, you just won't be able to get a job as a CRNA and will have to work as an RN. Plenty of need for nurses, but there's only so many surgeons, which means there is a saturation point for anesthesia services. They tripled the number of CRNA student positions over the last 25 years, you can't just keep adding providers and expect the market to make room, that's how you end up in a situation like pathology, rads, or the legal field.

 

[NoTownPreMed]

Nursing is a great profession. You learn to develop critical thinking skills on the job and acquire a set of skills that can benefit you should you wish to pursue a higher in education. Going for medicine is also great, you will acquire knowledge that can never be replaced by any mid-level providers. You will never be unemployed and will be in the top percentile of income earners. Don't let others dictate on what you want to do. If you want to become a physician, PA, CRNA or NP, go for it. Do what you think will make YOU happy.

 

[W19]

You won't be unemployed, you just won't be able to get a job as a CRNA and will have to work as an RN. Plenty of need for nurses, but there's only so many surgeons, which means there is a saturation point for anesthesia services. They tripled the number of CRNA student positions over the last 25 years, you can't just keep adding providers and expect the market to make room, that's how you end up in a situation like pathology, rads, or the legal field.

It seems like that they are some states that are good for NP, and others that are not so good. For instance, I know some NP in S. FL that work as floor nurses. They said the offers they were getting from docs were not so great...

 

[Mad Jack]

It seems like that they are some states that are good for NP, and others that are not so good. For instance, I know some NP in S. FL that work as floor nurses. They said the offers they were getting from docs were not so great...

Same is happening in CT- CRNAs are having to go out of state for work, and most of the NPs are being offered low 80s to work 45-50 hour weeks, so they just keep working as floor nurses since they're already making that much with a tenth the liability.

 

[jl lin]

OP, holy crap. You need to chill a bit. You don't have to declare your major right away. Take some time for you and do some research. After that, you need to be around the various clinical areas to get a feel. Heck, you may end up thinking you aren't into any of that.

CRNA may or may not be your thing. Medicine may not be your thing. Nursing may not be your thing. Maybe you would find education/teaching something you'd enjoy and be good at doing. I don't know. You need to find out about you. What are your strengths and interests and talents? And this is something that may not be clear at your current stage of life. So take the time you have right now to do some research about you, these areas of healthcare, have some fun. Take general ed courses. Find out what you like or don't like. Read some books from people that have actually gone through the processes of becoming nurses and physicians or whatever.

You can do the research, and you should. But you have to first find out what you are about, and what your strengths and true interests are. Heck do you even like working with people; b/c that alone is a huge challenge when working in healthcare? Some people are better off as research scientists. Others are better off dealing with the needs/demands of people in healthcare.

Here, start with something like this

http://www.truity.com/test/type-finder-research-edition

There are others that are more involved than the Myers–Briggs Type Indicator. It's looking more at preferences rather than aptitude. Many people have great aptitude for things, however, once exposed enough, they realize they really have no great preference for those things.

So the two points: 1. "Know thyself," as much as you can at this point in your life. 2. Learn about the areas in which you express interest; i.e., what is the fantasy versus the reality of working in these fields--as much as you can know this at this point in your life.

You don't have to know your whole path right now. No one ever does really. You have to take it one step at a time. But just turn on the flashlight and start looking around to see if you are even on the right hemisphere, much less the right terrain, of what suits you.

 

[jl lin]

I have seen that sentence repeated so often here and I am not even sure what it means... Sure that med students in their 20s have more time constraint than most other people, but you are not sacrificing your 20s because you are in med school... I am a non trad student and I have noticed my classmates that are in their 20s doing the same thing that I did when I was in my 20s, except that they are in med school and I was working. A lot of them party; they go to the beach, to the gym, and they travel because they can afford it (many are from upper middle class families)....I am in MS2; so maybe things will be different in MS3/MS4 and residency...

Yes, but I think you do have to have better planning skills if you go the medical profession route. I am certain I would have had conflicts with reproductive issues and med school work and residency. But thankfully, most people don't have the problem I had. I mean, honestly, it can get a bit tricky for the female that wants both medicine and children. Of course it is not so much an issue if everything goes normally. But things happen sometimes.

Otherwise, I feel like those that are really struggling in this regard are the married couples where both are in med school (or say the other is starting out in some equally demanding and less than optimally paying role) and they start a family. I mean I guess if they have the right family support or loads of money coming from somewhere for a great nanny to help them, then I guess that's fine. But how many people are in that situation? Many women do feel the compelling drive to begin reproduction before they are in their 30s. If I had waited after that, I wouldn't have been able to have my other children--just b/c of the quirky thing I have.

 

[DokterMom]

You won't be unemployed, you just won't be able to get a job as a CRNA and will have to work as an RN. Plenty of need for nurses, but there's only so many surgeons, which means there is a saturation point for anesthesia services. They tripled the number of CRNA student positions over the last 25 years, you can't just keep adding providers and expect the market to make room, that's how you end up in a situation like pathology, rads, or the legal field.

This is it exactly -- Whenever an employment situation becomes lopsided, the free market course-corrects. You see that in virtually every profession. So when a job option becomes highly attractive and lucrative relative to the time investment (> $100K salary with just a 4-year degree -- ex. CRNA) then people rush into it, overcrowding the field and driving down wages until things balance out again. The lop-sided opportunity to overcrowding cycle typically takes only 5-10 years or so, perhaps a bit more where the training period is much longer or where there are barriers to entry (only so many Ortho residencies to go around). So don't do CRNA for the money. Or DNP or PA. Do it only if you think you'll love the work.

 

[Psai]

Just base on work experience, I truly believe the "lifestyle" is what you make of it. I've seen PAs work MORE hours than some of the doctors. At our neuro ICU floor, the PA runs the floor from minute to minute.

So I don't know where people get these ideas that some how mid-levels automatically work less hours and magically have more time to have babies and live a lushes life. Our PAs takes call from home and even do consults. Obviously if anything is beyond their scope the doctors will step in.

And believe it or not, there's a special dynamic that PA and MD/DO have together. It's like this bond where they look out for one another and cover each others back. I haven't really seen this hostile attitude where the doctors feel that PAs are taking over etc like SDN make of it...then again, I'm a CNA so this is n=1 from working and shadowing.

You need to be honest with yourself and figure out what's exactly is important to you and what you want in life. That's only way you'll make sound decisions. And I feel that if you regret anything later on, just remember that at one point, you wanted it and you went for it.

Pas and doctors work well together because pas tend to understand their role well from working closely with med students and residents and attendings. Nurse practitioners get lectures from other nurses and clinical experience from other nurses. They don't have any idea what they're missing out on or how much they don't know which is why they have much less respect for our education.

But you're a nursing assistant. You don't work with doctors and you have little idea about how the icu is run. The doctor doesn't need to stay in house 24/7. They see the patient, make the diagnoses and write the plans which are implemented by the nurses and respiratory techs, etc. under parameters set by the doctors. The pa is not running the floor, most likely they are just putting in orders that the nurses need, making more minor decisions and responding to situations that arise.

And a midlevel should never do a consult. Ever.

 

[W19]

Pas and doctors work well together because pas tend to understand their role well from working closely with med students and residents and attendings. Nurse practitioners get lectures from other nurses and clinical experience from other nurses. They don't have any idea what they're missing out on or how much they don't know which is why they have much less respect for our education.

And a midlevel should never do a consult. Ever.

I worked with a couple of primary care physicians that put on their consults 'to be seen only by physician--not PA/NP'. That ticked off some NP...