Cardiology Job market

[Silent Cool]

Not sure where you are located, but all the fellows at my institution are all not getting $400k starting in my location. The ones that took higher starting salaries went to crappier cities, where pay for hospitalists is higher too. Their per hour breakdown isn't much higher.

Look, my point is that hospital medicine sucks (I'm getting out in 6 months), BUT for those who can tolerate it, it's not a worse gig FINANCIALLY compared to most specialists. Would I rather do hospital medicine or cards? Cards. No doubt. But from a purely financial standpoint, it's not a clear cut home run.

What fellowship are you entering?

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[bronx43]

What fellowship are you entering?

Rheum. Went back and forth on a couple fields, but ultimately I think rheum is the best fit with the most options for me.

 

[IMDoc607]

My buddy got a hospitalist job in a BEAUTIFUL location for 340k (7 on/7 off). Another got a gig teaching at a community residency program working 30 hours a week only on teaching services for 250k. Not that it matters since I'm just bringing up anecdotes while not making a point...

Whatever bro....go bitch and moan all you want. You're a broken record for the last 3 years. Its old.

 

[IMDoc607]

My buddy got a hospitalist job in a BEAUTIFUL location for 340k (7 on/7 off). Another got a gig teaching at a community residency program working 30 hours a week only on teaching services for 250k. Not that it matters since I'm just bringing up anecdotes while not making a point...

And his offer was >500K.

 

[IMDoc607]

My buddy got a hospitalist job in a BEAUTIFUL location for 340k (7 on/7 off). Another got a gig teaching at a community residency program working 30 hours a week only on teaching services for 250k. Not that it matters since I'm just bringing up anecdotes while not making a point...

I am making a point. I am a third year fellow who is seeing all his classmates get some pretty good jobs. Thats not anecdotal. It is fact. Glad you are happy in rheum. Best of luck.

 

[bronx43]

Whatever bro....go bitch and moan all you want. You're a broken record for the last 3 years. Its old.

Not bitching and moaning, what do I have to bitch about? Just stating facts.

 

[bronx43]

I am making a point. I am a third year fellow who is seeing all his classmates get some pretty good jobs. Thats not anecdotal. It is fact. Glad you are happy in rheum. Best of luck.

... do you understand the meaning of anecdotes? Apparently not.

And you are making points which are not actually relevant to my argument. Obviously cardiology is making more than hospital medicine on a nominal scale. Did I say anything to the contrary? My point is the amount of money you get in your pocket per hour from the two jobs aren't drastically different at the end of the day, which makes going into cardiology FOR THE MONEY a wrong move. Jesus.. you need better reading comprehension.

 

[infarct]

Interesting...my anecdotal evidence suggests cardiology is doing pretty well and paying very well even in more desirable cities. Private practice n south east can expect 400 for general and 50-75k more to start for interventional (at least that is what I have been hearing in Georgia and the Carolinas). Academic per usual may be half as much.

 

[IMDoc607]

... do you understand the meaning of anecdotes? Apparently not.

And you are making points which are not actually relevant to my argument. Obviously cardiology is making more than hospital medicine on a nominal scale. Did I say anything to the contrary? My point is the amount of money you get in your pocket per hour from the two jobs aren't drastically different at the end of the day, which makes going into cardiology FOR THE MONEY a wrong move. Jesus.. you need better reading comprehension.

Whatever.....go to the rheum forum....if there is one. Why do you feel the need to consistently make your point about cardiology and hospitalist medicine. Dude, NO ONE CARES what you think. Jesus christ, since I started my fellowship which I am now ending to enter an advanced fellowship you have been spewing the same BS.

 

[IMDoc607]

... do you understand the meaning of anecdotes? Apparently not.

And you are making points which are not actually relevant to my argument. Obviously cardiology is making more than hospital medicine on a nominal scale. Did I say anything to the contrary? My point is the amount of money you get in your pocket per hour from the two jobs aren't drastically different at the end of the day, which makes going into cardiology FOR THE MONEY a wrong move. Jesus.. you need better reading comprehension.

Whats your obsession with money anyway? Is 350-400 not enough for you?

 

[bronx43]

Whatever.....go to the rheum forum....if there is one. Why do you feel the need to consistently make your point about cardiology and hospitalist medicine. Dude, NO ONE CARES what you think. Jesus christ, since I started my fellowship which I am now ending to enter an advanced fellowship you have been spewing the same BS.

What...? This is a FORUM, where people have discussions. The topic is the cardiology job market and people have brought up hospital medicine as a comparison since that is an option open to all IM grads who can also go into cardiology... I'm simply participating, and responding to various other people. Go back and look and my posts. They are responses to other people. Sure, no one cares about what I say, but neither do they about what YOU say, so why are YOU posting? Why even have a forum at all? If you have a problem with this thread or discussion in the thread, then you should stop visiting as opposed to complain about the participants.

 

[infarct]

.

 

[infarct]

What...? This is a FORUM, where people have discussions. The topic is the cardiology job market and people have brought up hospital medicine as a comparison since that is an option open to all IM grads who can also go into cardiology... I'm simply participating, and responding to various other people. Go back and look and my posts. They are responses to other people. Sure, no one cares about what I say, but neither do they about what YOU say, so why are YOU posting? Why even have a forum at all? If you have a problem with this thread or discussion in the thread, then you should stop visiting as opposed to complain about the participants.

bronx43, IMDoc607 has a point. You have been a broken record on this topic for years. I remember your consistent naysaying over the years when I was first applying for cards fellowship. You have a very clear bias in your postings against cardiology. Why is that? ....I guess it doest really matter. You just keep making the same points...which you are free to make. But the point remains. You haven't said anything different for quite some time. Maybe say something new...or provide insight into what personal experience led to this bias?

 

[guitarguy23]

Merry Christmas...one and all!

 

[happymedgrad]

Ho ho ho!

 

[IMDoc607]

bronx43, IMDoc607 has a point. You have been a broken record on this topic for years. I remember your consistent naysaying over the years when I was first applying for cards fellowship. You have a very clear bias in your postings against cardiology. Why is that? ....I guess it doest really matter. You just keep making the same points...which you are free to make. But the point remains. You haven't said anything different for quite some time. Maybe say something new...or provide insight into what personal experience led to this bias?

Exactly my point.....no one is to say that you are completely wrong. However, you have made your persistent point for YEARS!!! Move on and get over it....I love cardiology and wouldn't pass it up for anything. The job markets isn't the greatest but it sure as hell isn't the worst. Cardiology rocks.

 

[staup640]

Exactly my point.....no one is to say that you are completely wrong. However, you have made your persistent point for YEARS!!! Move on and get over it....I love cardiology and wouldn't pass it up for anything. The job markets isn't the greatest but it sure as hell isn't the worst. Cardiology rocks.

As someone who is currently a hospitalist who thinks about going into Cards a lot, I think Bronx is someone who likes Cards, but is not in love with it, so to convince himself that it is not the right field to go into, he likes to harp on negative news about the field, such as declining salaries.

Nothing really wrong with that though. Not all of us are fortunate enough to be in love with a field from the start.

 

[IMDoc607]

As someone who is currently a hospitalist who thinks about going into Cards a lot, I think Bronx is someone who likes Cards, but is not in love with it, so to convince himself that it is not the right field to go into, he likes to harp on negative news about the field, such as declining salaries.

Nothing really wrong with that though. Not all of us are fortunate enough to be in love with a field from the start.

Totally fine and I respect that. However, its been a nonstop crusade over the last three years.

 

[tachycore]

I have so many questions ABOUT this thread, not on its actual topic.

First and foremost: How is it still alive?

 

[staup640]

Totally fine and I respect that. However, its been a nonstop crusade over the last three years.

You're right. I think the biggest driving force for his persistence is the fact that Cards actually is a good field.

 

[bronx43]

Totally fine and I respect that. However, its been a nonstop crusade over the last three years.

Nonstop crusade? LOL. Go back and look at my posts. I only RESPOND to new posters or new posts on this topic. I have never started any threads about this, nor have I brought up the same topic without someone else asking a question or making a comment. Am you supposed to post once, then never revisit a thread again? If so, then why are you posting again and again on this?

 

[bronx43]

You're right. I think the biggest driving force for his persistence is the fact that Cards actually is a good field.

Lol, ok. Whatever you say, brah. Not saying I disagree with you... "good" is an entirely subjective concept so you'll get no argument here.

 

[Workhorse]

What fellowship are you entering?

I think you are missing the point on base salary when you compare cardiology with hospitalist. If cardiologist or interventionist joint a busy group, base salary is typically relevant for first year or two when you are building the practice and do not generate enough revenue. Once you have enough work then salary depends exactly on how much RVUs you have made. Most of the interventionist I know make >600 after 2nd year of practice if they are busy and bringing 11500 to 12000 RVU.

 

[IMDoc607]

Nonstop crusade? LOL. Go back and look at my posts. I only RESPOND to new posters or new posts on this topic. I have never started any threads about this, nor have I brought up the same topic without someone else asking a question or making a comment. Am you supposed to post once, then never revisit a thread again? If so, then why are you posting again and again on this?

Alright we can all have our own opinions. I get your point. Best of luck with your fellowship. No reason to keep going back and forth at each other. Take care

 

[Successor12]

You're lucky that you can leave around 2pm, and only write 15 notes. Where are you located and how much do you get paid, if you don't mind my asking?

Would you mind sharing why you decided to do rheum after all? And how is the job market for rheum in terms of pay? I am a big fan of the specialty but seems that am not able to get a good grasp of how much they exactly make and I mean a range of pay just so I would have realistic expectations

 

[bronx43]

Would you mind sharing why you decided to do rheum after all? And how is the job market for rheum in terms of pay? I am a big fan of the specialty but seems that am not able to get a good grasp of how much they exactly make and I mean a range of pay just so I would have realistic expectations

Job market for rheum is pretty good, other than the tier 1 cities where you would have to take lower pay and/or know someone to get into a good group. The fellows at my institutions are usually complaining about getting too many emails from recruiters trying to get them to interview.
The pay varies from location to location, but a tier 2 city would be about $250k for 4.5-5 days of clinic (35-40 hours, no call, no weekends). A suburb of tier 2 city would prob be $275k for the same 35-40 hour work week. I'm not sure about tier 1 cities, tbh. Never really had any interest in working at those places.

 

[Successor12]

Job market for rheum is pretty good, other than the tier 1 cities where you would have to take lower pay and/or know someone to get into a good group. The fellows at my institutions are usually complaining about getting too many emails from recruiters trying to get them to interview.
The pay varies from location to location, but a tier 2 city would be about $250k for 4.5-5 days of clinic (35-40 hours, no call, no weekends). A suburb of tier 2 city would prob be $275k for the same 35-40 hour work week. I'm not sure about tier 1 cities, tbh. Never really had any interest in working at those places.

Is there potential to make more as a partner?

 

[bronx43]

Is there potential to make more as a partner?

Yea, but that would depend on the finances of your practice. There are a lot of ancillary revenue streams for rheumatology that includes labs, imaging, infusion centers. I honestly don't know the exact numbers since it's so case specific.

 

[psychMDhopefully]

Whatever, for the last ten years every damn specialty has tried to spell doom and gloom in every possible way

Things will truck on and life will go on as usual. But because this is SDN we have a higher degree of neurotic crazy people who think the world is ending

But.... Pathology

 

[psychMDhopefully]

As someone who is currently a hospitalist who thinks about going into Cards a lot, I think Bronx is someone who likes Cards, but is not in love with it, so to convince himself that it is not the right field to go into, he likes to harp on negative news about the field, such as declining salaries.

Nothing really wrong with that though. Not all of us are fortunate enough to be in love with a field from the start.

Or, maybe he couldn't get into cards and had to settle for hospitalist, now he is doing a fellowship that is way less competitive than cards.

 

[Carbocation1]

How is the job market/compensation for Gen Cards compared to IC/EP in 2016? Are fellows receiving good, non-predatory offers in desirable locations?

 

[nstemi]

How is the job market/compensation for Gen Cards compared to IC/EP in 2016? Are fellows receiving good, non-predatory offers in desirable locations?

everybody i know going into general cardiology got great job offers, in fact, i would guess that there are more opportunities in gen cards than ic/ep right now. of course, geography is a significant factor.

 

[tvelocity514]

everybody i know going into general cardiology got great job offers, in fact, i would guess that there are more opportunities in gen cards than ic/ep right now. of course, geography is a significant factor.

How is the EP field? Are current fellows worried about getting a job in a decent area (eg A decent city but not a huge one like San Fran or nyc)


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[nope80]

What are the main avenues people have been searching for jobs?

It seems like at least from where I have looked (doximity, kaiser website, NEJM) jobs for gen cards are somewhat limited - especially when compared to fields like internal medicine where there is so much demand. Is that the general consensus? Do people normally look in a relatively expanded geographic area? because the way it looks, its not like there are so many obvious opportunities in my area.

 

[salk]

What are the main avenues people have been searching for jobs?

It seems like at least from where I have looked (doximity, kaiser website, NEJM) jobs for gen cards are somewhat limited - especially when compared to fields like internal medicine where there is so much demand. Is that the general consensus? Do people normally look in a relatively expanded geographic area? because the way it looks, its not like there are so many obvious opportunities in my area.

Ha ha, welcome to what we prophesied three years ago

 

[nlax30]

everybody i know going into general cardiology got great job offers, in fact, i would guess that there are more opportunities in gen cards than ic/ep right now. of course, geography is a significant factor.

Anecdotally I've seen a fair number of general and IC jobs, maybe not in most "in-demand" locations but the need is certainly there. Haven't seen much in way of EP jobs, at least not well advertised.

 

[bronx43]

Anecdotally I've seen a fair number of general and IC jobs, maybe not in most "in-demand" locations but the need is certainly there. Haven't seen much in way of EP jobs, at least not well advertised.

Pure curiosity here, but what exactly is a "in-demand" location? Seems like that's becoming a slippery slope. 15 years ago, "in-demand" locations were LA, SF, NYC, Chi, DC, Boston, etc. Ten years ago, it extended to places like Orlando, Nashville, Charleston, Tacoma, etc. Five years ago, it's basically anywhere with a mall and BMW dealership. I wonder what it is now... perhaps any 30 mile radius that includes a Starbucks and a Whole Foods?

So much for the predicted "shortage" of physicians. Btw, this is true across all specialties.

 

[PlutoBoy]

Five years ago, it's basically anywhere with a mall and BMW dealership.

 

[nope80]

Where are you guys all looking for jobs? Where did you see a fair number of gen cards jobs, nlax30?

I hope it is a case of I just haven't been looking in the right places. There has been a real dirth in job openings based on what I saw. What do people typically do? Anyone been in a case where they can't actually find a job? Seems pretty scary in light of loan payments taking effect.

 

[gutonc]

Where are you guys all looking for jobs? Where did you see a fair number of gen cards jobs, nlax30?

I hope it is a case of I just haven't been looking in the right places. There has been a real dirth in job openings based on what I saw. What do people typically do? Anyone been in a case where they can't actually find a job? Seems pretty scary in light of loan payments taking effect.

Most jobs aren't advertised.

Google "city name cardiology". Make some phone calls.

 

[nope80]

When you make phone calls who do people ask to typically speak to? And what should one be prepared to discuss during the conversation? Sorry that sounds so rudimentary but for those of us that have not gone through this process and do not know how to navigate the ropes, I am wondering...

Also, if one is interested in a part time position is this something that you should come out and say initially or wait until later in the talks?

 

[nlax30]

Where are you guys all looking for jobs? Where did you see a fair number of gen cards jobs, nlax30?

I hope it is a case of I just haven't been looking in the right places. There has been a real dirth in job openings based on what I saw. What do people typically do? Anyone been in a case where they can't actually find a job? Seems pretty scary in light of loan payments taking effect.

I'm just starting this process but I've seen a fair number of jobs on Doccafe.com in my home state. To be honest I have only looked in a couple suburban areas that we are looking at and realistically will be staying where I currently am.

 

[nope80]

Thanks for the suggestion - I looked on doccafe. It honestly seems that most jobs are in less desirable locations. What do people do that can't relocate? Either the job market is really scary or I'm not understanding something. It seems that most jobs are perhaps not advertised and through word of mouth?

For people that are cold calling practices, who do you ask to speak with? What is the typical procedure/protocol that is expected?

 

[gutonc]

For people that are cold calling practices, who do you ask to speak with? What is the typical procedure/protocol that is expected?

Medical director. Say you're a graduating fellow interested in a job and explain why (in about 15 seconds) you'd be a good candidate.

Do you seriously have nobody at your program who can hook you up in the area?

 

[IMDoc607]

As an advanced heart failure and transplant fellow, I have had multiple systems contact me for potential future jobs. It's amazing how wide open the advanced heart failure field is. Only negative to it is that most places don't do transplant.

 

[nlax30]

As an advanced heart failure and transplant fellow, I have had multiple systems contact me for potential future jobs. It's amazing how wide open the advanced heart failure field is. Only negative to it is that most places don't do transplant.

Are these mostly tertiary care/academic type places or are you seeing more community based offers?

 

[nlax30]

Thanks for the suggestion - I looked on doccafe. It honestly seems that most jobs are in less desirable locations. What do people do that can't relocate? Either the job market is really scary or I'm not understanding something. It seems that most jobs are perhaps not advertised and through word of mouth?

For people that are cold calling practices, who do you ask to speak with? What is the typical procedure/protocol that is expected?

Usually the medical director or practice manager I would think, especially if it's a private group.

One of our regional hospital systems that employs a good number of local multi-specialty practices has a separate website geared toward physician recruitment with openings listed and have a few of their recruiters tasked with that. So could also check with the hospital or large medical group in the area you are interested in.

Word-of-mouth I would imagine also plays a large role and hopefully attendings in your program would be able to help, certainly if you're looking to stay local there.

 

[nlax30]

Hopefully this thread isn't dead yet.... but to generate some more discussion here:

Any advice from those that have recently gone through the job search process to someone who is about to start?
What had you wished you knew beforehand?

Were there any additional things you wished you asked beyond the typical things such as, patient load inpatient vs outpt, clinic schedule, call, pay structure/benefits, ancillary services, etc...?

What has the typical pay structure been like for those looking currently? A position I am currently looking into is with a hospital employed group, salaried w/ RVU based incentives/bonus.

 

[nope80]

Bump! Any updates from anyone?

 

[psychMDhopefully]

Is cardiology saturated? You'd think with all the old people and fat people there would be an endless demand.