Career Change

[ridgeback5386]

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[QofQuimica]

What makes you so sure you want to be a surgeon? Done any shadowing or clinical experience?

 

[Vince411]

I would definitely "look" before you "leap," get out there and shadow some people in the medical field, you'll need a good explination of why you want to go to medical school other than saying that you hate your current job--i.e. what experience with medicine do you have? Have you interacted with patients, have you volunteered in a medical setting? For us non-trads, changing careers into medicine is tantamount to doing a 180 with an aircraft carrier. It takes a lot of time---more than just jumping into a post-bac program. Lay the groundwork first, experience the medical field and then take the next step if that's a post-bac program or a DIY program. You can always start out with doing some shadowing and taking 1 or 2 evening science classes first and then move on from there if its what you really want to do. This way it will look like you made an informed decision to leave your current career and pursue medicine.

 

[meander]

Where are you located?

Your attitude would be concerning for admissions at the career changer postbacs. It's fine to not be in love with your current career -- obviously most career changers aren't -- but being so down on it (loathe, pointless, low prestige) will make it so you need to work extra hard to convince programs that you are running toward medicine, not away from a job you dislike. I know you're not trying to sell us on SDN and probably weren't considering your words carefully, but it's best to start reframing your attitude now so it sounds natural and genuine when interview season rolls around.

 

[Vince411]

The value of my current field to me is approaching zero. The work is meaningless, and I hold everything about it except the paycheck in a sort of frothing contempt.

I agree that it takes time, but I am not one for half measures like taking a few night courses once my mind is made up.

Not sure what part of making an informed decision is a "half measure" but go ahead and jump right in and good luck explaining to adcoms that you made an informed decision---let me know how that works out for ya!

 

[QofQuimica]

No clinical work or shadowing to date. I do know a surgeon personally, and he loves what he does, finds it meaningful and challenging. I am drawn to surgery for those reasons.

This is where you need to start then. Unlike most other careers, med school adcoms require (not prefer, not give bonus points for, but REQUIRE) applicants to show that they have some idea of what they're getting into. I would absolutely vote to reject someone like you without even an interview based upon the answers you've given so far. You can talk all you want about how much you "love" surgery from your armchair, but talk is cheap, and medical training is not something you dabble in or jump into without really doing some due diligence.

You're lucky enough to have an in, so ask your buddy to let you shadow him and/or his colleagues. Surgery isn't just about being in the OR, and in fact, that's the minority of where most surgeons spend their time. Sure, go in the OR, but also spend a few mind-numbing eight hour days seeing boring post-op cases in clinic with him. Many surgeons do work 30+ hours straight, even in the community. So go to work yourself all day, then stay up all night with him while he's taking call, and then go to work again all day the next day. Go hang out in the ER and see consults with him. After you have some hands-on experience with seeing what surgeons do on a day-to-day basis and some of the crappy sides of this career, if you're still wanting to go to medical school, then come back and we'll talk about how you get from here to there.

 

[theseeker4]

He is in NY. I am in SF temporarily and travel extensively for work. How else does one gain clinical experience besides knowing someone?

If you have a personal physician, start there and ask about shadowing with him/her and/or with his or her colleagues. If you run into a block there, or don't have a doctor, you will need to do what other pre-meds in similar situations do and start cold-calling physicians. You can get some volunteer experience in at a hospital or free clinic, and make contacts that way as well. Since the volunteering will be needed for your application anyway, it won't be time wasted if you do pursue this.

 

[Vince411]

Taking a few night courses to effectuate a huge career change is passivity.

you pretty much just called a bunch of non-trads on this forum "passive" even though you didn't stop to consider that many might have no other choice but to work full time and their only option is taking evening classes while working full time. If you took your time to do some research you would see that many "passive" non-trads have actually completed their goal and made it to med school or beyond. Calling hard working people who work all day then study at night "passive" and akin to taking "half measures" is offensive. You should tell adcoms during your future interviews--if you make it that far--that working adults who did pre-reqs part time at night are "passive" people who only take "half measures." See how far that gets you.

 

[ridethecliche]

No clinical work or shadowing to date. I do know a surgeon personally, and he loves what he does, finds it meaningful and challenging. I am drawn to surgery for those reasons.

Wrong answer.

 

[Goro]

Pay very careful attention to my learned colleague. In addition to showing us that you understand what a doctor's day is like, you need to demonstrate that you know what you're getting into, and that you really want to be around sick people for the next 30-40 years.

I know plenty of big rig drivers who love what they do, and find it meaningful and challenging. You're going to have to do better than that....Medicine is a calling for most people.

Most hospitals have volunteer offices, contact them. You can also volunteer at nursing homes, clinics, Planned Parenthood or hospice.

This is where you need to start then. Unlike most other careers, med school adcoms require (not prefer, not give bonus points for, but REQUIRE) applicants to show that they have some idea of what they're getting into. I would absolutely vote to reject someone like you without even an interview based upon the answers you've given so far. You can talk all you want about how much you "love" surgery from your armchair, but talk is cheap, and medical training is not something you dabble in or jump into without really doing some due diligence.

You're lucky enough to have an in, so ask your buddy to let you shadow him and/or his colleagues. Surgery isn't just about being in the OR, and in fact, that's the minority of where most surgeons spend their time. Sure, go in the OR, but also spend a few mind-numbing eight hour days seeing boring post-op cases in clinic with him. Many surgeons do work 30+ hours straight, even in the community. So go to work yourself all day, then stay up all night with him while he's taking call, and then go to work again all day the next day. Go hang out in the ER and see consults with him. After you have some hands-on experience with seeing what surgeons do on a day-to-day basis and some of the crappy sides of this career, if you're still wanting to go to medical school, then come back and we'll talk about how you get from here to there.

 

[BHB2008]

To the OP: I totally understand where you are coming from, and it's okay to voice those concerns about your current career as a motivating factor on an anonymous internet forum. I say jump in feet first, and have a few back up plans if you have second thoughts down the line. There isn't a minute to spare salvaging yourself from a career you detest.

To everyone else: this isn't a med-school interview. This is how people think about career changes. Regardless of what you may think, a few hours of shadowing here and there isn't enough to let anyone know if they'll enjoy medicine, and it's all very much a leap of faith, because by the time you're done with your education, you are a completely different person than when you began. Predicting the future is as an art, and the best person to make predictions about your future self is YOU.

 

[QofQuimica]

To everyone else: this isn't a med-school interview. This is how people think about career changes. Regardless of what you may think, a few hours of shadowing here and there isn't enough to let anyone know if they'll enjoy medicine, and it's all very much a leap of faith, because by the time you're done with your education, you are a completely different person than when you began. Predicting the future is as an art, and the best person to make predictions about your future self is YOU.

You misunderstand the purpose of shadowing. It's not to let premeds know if they'll enjoy medicine; you're right that shadowing or clinical volunteering isn't very specific (lots of false positives). However, it's very sensitive (few false negatives). As such, it's a great screening test to weed out the premeds who know for sure that they *won't* enjoy medicine. Anyone who realizes at this early stage that they don't like patient care has come out far ahead of those who learn the same fact after getting partway through med school or residency. Not only have they avoided wasting years of their life training for a career they dislike, they've avoided going into six figure debt for a career they dislike.

OP has no idea if he likes medicine. He just knows he likes the idea of medicine. But I think we can all agree that those aren't the same thing. And as someone with zero experience in medicine, no, actually, he is not the best person to make predictions about his future self when it comes to how good of a fit medicine is for him as a potential career. If most premeds had the level of insight necessary to recognize when medicine was the wrong career for them, we'd have a heck of a lot fewer miserable physicians.

And with all due respect, as a premed yourself, you have no basis whatsoever for saying that "it's all very much a leap of faith, because by the time you're done with your education, you are a completely different person than when you began." Are we shaped by our experiences? Sure. If I had gone and done a post doc a decade ago instead of going to med school, I'd have obviously had some very different life experiences. But to say it would have made me a completely different person is just another example of premed fantasizing about medicine. Medical training isn't a spiritual rebirth, and med school isn't a place to go so you can find yourself. Best to make peace with that person you see in the mirror before you ever start down this road, because you're still going to be you when you come out of the wringer at the end of it.

 

[BHB2008]

Good points re: shadowing weeding out those who won't like medicine. When I say "jump in feet first", I of course mean do the prerequisite shadowing, clinical exposure legwork. He'll be able to make a better prediction about his future self with that experience than anyone on this forum.

My comment that you are a completely different person in ten years time isn't "fantasizing about medicine". It's a fact of life/aging and applies to nearly everything--parenthood, relocation, career changes, etc. It's not premed specific. Think lots of older people would agree with this, so don't be so dismissive. The more you know, the more you know what you can't know....that's just life.

So take an "educated leap of faith", then, OP.

 

[Law2Doc]

No clinical work or shadowing to date. I do know a surgeon personally, and he loves what he does, finds it meaningful and challenging. I am drawn to surgery for those reasons.

Ok so you know a guy in a totally different state and he's TOLD you he likes his job, and that's the total extent of your due diligence? Not to mention that you dislike your current job and are clearly running away from it. Hate to break it to you but this is exactly how people end up stuck in bad fit careers they don't like. And as mentioned if your reasons for "why a career change, why medicine?" resemble this at all when you apply it's game over.

Look, you need to shadow. The 19 year old college kid is allowed to volunteer a few hours in the local ER and vaguely write that he wants to go into medicine to "help people" and adcom members let that slide. But a guy whos changing career has to be much better thought out than this. Needs to do a lot more due diligence. Needs to have seen the doctor patient interaction first hand and be able to point to concrete examples of what they like about medicine and how it would be fulfilling/exciting/interesting. So shadowing is mandatory, a prerequisite. Not only is it looking before you leap, and good fodder for the "why medicine" questions, but it also helps some people appreciate that it's not like what they see on TV or hear about in stories from friends and family -- a lot if it is long hours, hard work and unsavory bodily fluids on your shoes.

Also you can't hate your prior job. Medicine wants winners. It wants people who are superstars in their current fields, with tons of transferable skills. Nobody wants another fields washouts. Nobody wants the guy running from a bad situation, they want you to be drawn to medicine for some concrete, positive, well thought out reason.

Again, some if this would slide if you were that pimply college kid who didn't know any better. But for a nontrad it's a whole different ballgame.

It may be helpful if you explain why you are interested in medicine OTHER than you "know a guy" in NY who likes it, and other than it hopefully being better than your current job...
... See why we are troubled here? Adcoms will be even less forgiving.

 

[Jewels86]

Please, please....please shadow a surgeon. I am training to become an L&D nurse (from the ER) and witnessing my first stat C-section almost made me pass out. Literally. I was so pale and nauseated that the staff thought I needed to sit down. And that's being in the background. Traumas, no problem. GSW, fine. Stabbing, sucks but lets get you sewn up. A person with a normal body that is purposely cut open (and then the uterus was taken out...oh my...), I may have to go back to the ER since I don't want be a witness to that.

You really need to see it. You won't get up close and personal due to the sterility of the patient/surgery area but you'll see enough. I know I did. No thank you.

 

[Law2Doc]

Please, please....please shadow a surgeon. I am training to become an L&D nurse (from the ER) and witnessing my first stat C-section almost made me pass out. Literally. I was so pale and nauseated that the staff thought I needed to sit down. And that's being in the background. Traumas, no problem. GSW, fine. Stabbing, sucks but lets get you sewn up. A person with a normal body that is purposely cut open (and then the uterus was taken out...oh my...), I may have to go back to the ER since I don't want be a witness to that.

You really need to see it. You won't get up close and personal due to the sterility of the patient/surgery area but you'll see enough. I know I did. No thank you.

Adcoms are less concerned about the likelihood OP will pass out in the OR and more concerned that he will get to third year of med school after hundreds of thousands in tuition and realize he doesn't like this job any better than the last one.