career crisis

[ckurtzzz]

So, I've wanted to pursue vet med for several years now. I'm a huge animal person, have shadowed a couple vets, and I really think it's the career for me.

But...

I can't stand chemistry. I can't stand orgo. I can't stand genetics. I hate stats. I absolutely hate every single pre-req I've taken. My grades are fine, all A's and B's. But I absolutely hate every minute of every class.

Which begs the question... how much of vet med is actually this microscience? Do I actually need to know about ketones and SN1 reactions and general transcription factors and prokaryotic regulation? Obviously I do to pass my pre-reqs and get into vet school, but is this what medicine looks like? Because I don't know if I can take 6 more years of this, let alone make it my career.

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[DVMDream]

So, I've wanted to pursue vet med for several years now. I'm a huge animal person, have shadowed a couple vets, and I really think it's the career for me.

But...

I can't stand chemistry. I can't stand orgo. I can't stand genetics. I hate stats. I absolutely hate every single pre-req I've taken. My grades are fine, all A's and B's. But I absolutely hate every minute of every class.

Which begs the question... how much of vet med is actually this microscience? Do I actually need to know about ketones and SN1 reactions and general transcription factors and prokaryotic regulation? Obviously I do to pass my pre-reqs and get into vet school, but is this what medicine looks like? Because I don't know if I can take 6 more years of this, let alone make it my career.

Ketones.. yes. Diabetic ketoacidosis... going to need to know about ketones.

SN1 reactions... I have no idea what that is anymore.

Transcription factors... meh. I mean you should probably have some general idea of what transcription is. Knowing the nitty gritty details of transcription... no, probably not.

Prokaryotic regulations... say what?

The answer to your question is kind a yes vet med does involve some of what you learn in pre-reqs, but no not all of it is there. Do I remember anything I learned in Ochem? No, not really. Do I remember what I learned in biochem? Yes, and it is repeated in vet school. Do I remember what I learned in genetics? Some of it. Do I remember what I learned in cell biology? Yes, yes, yes and more yes.

This isn't a straightforward answer, yes some of what you have covered in undergrad courses will need to be known in vet school. All those pumps in cell membranes they discuss... important. All the nervous system action potential things... important. I am sure if I weren't so tired, I could think of more.

Overall, yes you need to know some of it but vet school really is a bit more of a broader picture of that. Some of it you will never use again.

 

[ckurtzzz]

Ketones.. yes. Diabetic ketoacidosis... going to need to know about ketones.

SN1 reactions... I have no idea what that is anymore.

Transcription factors... meh. I mean you should probably have some general idea of what transcription is. Knowing the nitty gritty details of transcription... no, probably not.

Prokaryotic regulations... say what?

The answer to your question is kind a yes vet med does involve some of what you learn in pre-reqs, but no not all of it is there. Do I remember anything I learned in Ochem? No, not really. Do I remember what I learned in biochem? Yes, and it is repeated in vet school. Do I remember what I learned in genetics? Some of it. Do I remember what I learned in cell biology? Yes, yes, yes and more yes.

This isn't a straightforward answer, yes some of what you have covered in undergrad courses will need to be known in vet school. All those pumps in cell membranes they discuss... important. All the nervous system action potential things... important. I am sure if I weren't so tired, I could think of more.

Overall, yes you need to know some of it but vet school really is a bit more of a broader picture of that. Some of it you will never use again.

so if I hate this I'll hate vet school, basically. What about practicing?

cell bio was tolerable. I am not looking forward to microbio or molecular bio, however.

 

[Beagleholly]

Have you taken other classes that you've enjoyed more? How were general biology or physiology etc? Do you read/learn about biology, or veterinary -related science, and find it interesting?

I didn't necessarily hate a lot of my prereqs, but I sure didn't like them. But, I do find biology fascinating, and enjoy at least parts of my classes, and reading outside of classes. I love learning about science, just not necessarily ochem.

When you shadow vets, what parts do you enjoy? Do you ask deeper questions? Are you curious about the scientific aspects? I find classes a lot more enjoyable when I connect them to things I learned at the clinic - like learning about genetics and tying it into cat coat color, or learning about processes in biochem and seeing how errors in that process lead to problems you see at the clinic.

I can't speak for vet school itself, but I know many vets/vet students who HATED prereqs (and even HATED vet school), but love being vets. It's not uncommon to feel the way you're feeling. If you love shadowing and veterinary medicine is a passion for you, you might just need to tough out those classes. Vet school is going to have parts you don't care about, and probably parts you hate, so this is good practice

Anyways, this isn't really answering your question, but maybe thinking about these things will help you figure out if this sort of learning is a deal-breaker for you, or if there are ways you can get more out of these classes.

 

[DVMDream]

so if I hate this I'll hate vet school, basically. What about practicing?

cell bio was tolerable. I am not looking forward to microbio or molecular bio, however.

If you hate undergrad, you will hate vet school... No, not necessarily. Really depends upon what you like and don't like.

I thought undergrad was ok. Didn't hate it but wasn't over the moon about it either. I despised ochem and physics. Loved cell bio and biochem. It really just depends upon your personal preferenes.

I also strongly dislike vet school. However, I love being in the vet clinic and working and figuring out what is ailing the ill pet. Vet school and undergrad are not equal to practicing vet med. They are merely stepping stones on the way there. However, if you don't like medicine or learning about physiology or how things can go wrong and why symptoms develop, then you might not enjoy vet med. You do have to have some interest in medicine because that is what being a vet is... practicing medicine. You don't have to enjoy the countless hours of lectures though and endless exams that teach you all about it and test you on it.

 

[that redhead]

Physiology in first year required knowledge of ions, gradients, action potentials...the nitty gritty science stuff. But after first year, it became a lot more bearable for me. The focus becomes more clinical and less foundation-level science (although physiology is absolutely crucial to understanding the clinical presentation of disease). Clinics are a million times better than any of my three years in the classroom, but we still apply understanding of basic physiology every day.

In short, you can still like vet school even if you hate your pre-reqs. And you can still enjoy vet med even if you hate vet school. The key is being able to put your head down, do well and (when it comes to vet school) really understand the subject material. I think you'll be fine

 

[WildZoo]

so if I hate this I'll hate vet school, basically. What about practicing?

cell bio was tolerable. I am not looking forward to microbio or molecular bio, however.

You might not dislike microbio as much as you think if cell bio was tolerable. There is a lot of overlap, although (in my case at least) micro is more prokaryote focused and cell is more eukaryote.

 

[ckurtzzz]

Thank you everyone for the input!

Anatomy and Physiology I did enjoy. Dissection was pretty fun and intriguing. I really enjoy that practical aspect...

In clinic I've always enjoyed the practical stuff... Looking at X-rays, surgery, diagnosing and such. I guess I'm more of a "yes it's diabetes as evidenced by the elevated glucose levels" rather than "it's diabetes because transcription factor X is inhibiting the expression of genes contributing to the translation of mRNA that codes for insulin." Don't. Care.

So I guess I can survive the next 6 years if I know that it isn't the rest of my life. I love the big picture science, by this tiny nit-picky stuff

 

[dyachei]

Thank you everyone for the input!

Anatomy and Physiology I did enjoy. Dissection was pretty fun and intriguing. I really enjoy that practical aspect...

In clinic I've always enjoyed the practical stuff... Looking at X-rays, surgery, diagnosing and such. I guess I'm more of a "yes it's diabetes as evidenced by the elevated glucose levels" rather than "it's diabetes because transcription factor X is inhibiting the expression of genes contributing to the translation of mRNA that codes for insulin." Don't. Care.

So I guess I can survive the next 6 years if I know that it isn't the rest of my life. I love the big picture science, by this tiny nit-picky stuff

meh. The issue with that is that you do sort of need to know some of the nit picky stuff in order to treat the big picture well. I'm not talking transcription X etc. But you need to understand what is happening so you can understand sequelae and be able to explain it to clients that might ask.

 

[DVMDream]

Thank you everyone for the input!

Anatomy and Physiology I did enjoy. Dissection was pretty fun and intriguing. I really enjoy that practical aspect...

In clinic I've always enjoyed the practical stuff... Looking at X-rays, surgery, diagnosing and such. I guess I'm more of a "yes it's diabetes as evidenced by the elevated glucose levels" rather than "it's diabetes because transcription factor X is inhibiting the expression of genes contributing to the translation of mRNA that codes for insulin." Don't. Care.

So I guess I can survive the next 6 years if I know that it isn't the rest of my life. I love the big picture science, by this tiny nit-picky stuff

You don't diagnose diabetes just because of glucose elevation, there are other factors involved. Which is why you need to know the physiology behind the diseases, how insulin works, what its effects are and what would happen if that insulin is not there or the body isn't sensitive to the insulin anymore.

 

[LetItSnow]

In clinic I've always enjoyed the practical stuff... Looking at X-rays, surgery, diagnosing and such. I guess I'm more of a "yes it's diabetes as evidenced by the elevated glucose levels" rather than "it's diabetes because transcription factor X is inhibiting the expression of genes contributing to the translation of mRNA that codes for insulin." Don't. Care.

I think you need an understanding somewhere in between. Medicine is not as simple as "this lab value = this disease". There are classic patterns, but more often than not a particular patient doesn't give you the 'classic pattern'. If it were as easy as "high glucose = diabetes" you wouldn't need a doctor.

You probably don't need to remember that this particular transcription factor inhibits this particular gene that blah blah blah..... but you definitely should understand that in this disease, this system is impaired, and this system's impairment means this hormone isn't getting produced which impacts these other systems producing these clinical signs and meaning that these particular drugs are a poor choice.

That said, I'm halfway through fourth year and I am nowhere near there yet. Not even remotely close.

Surgery is about decision-making as much as it is about instrument manipulation. People tend to think of it as "look how nice his suturing is" or "wow she's a fast surgeon" or whatever. But while you need skill, the most important part of surgery is knowing what patient to cut, where to cut, and whether it's a good idea. Not how "pretty" your work is. It's like flying: people always judge you on the landing, which is bull**** - the meat of flying is in the pre-flight planning phase. That's where most disasters could have been avoided.

And with rads ... there's about a few million miles between "looking at x-rays" and being able to interpret them and understand what the changes you're seeing might mean. Hell. Just seeing abnormalities is an art form that I'm wondering if I'll ever start to master.

So my hunch is that practicing medicine is a bit more complex than you want it to be but a bit less complex than you might think it is.

 

[DVMDream]

And with rads ... there's about a few million miles between "looking at x-rays" and being able to interpret them and understand what the changes you're seeing might mean. Hell. Just seeing abnormalities is an art form that I'm wondering if I'll ever start to master.

I have basically come to terms that I will never be able to interpret rads... just the other day they showed us a chest xray of a cat that I thought looked really bad... it was normal... sigh...

 

[LetItSnow]

You don't diagnose diabetes just because of glucose elevation,

Really? Cause that's pretty much exactly how I diagnose it. Clinical signs, persistent hyperglycemia, and glucosuria.

 

[DVMDream]

Really? Cause that's pretty much exactly how I diagnose it. Clinical signs, persistent hyperglycemia, and glycosuria.

You added in clinical signs and glycosuria...

Simple high blood glucose does not a diabetic make...

 

[LetItSnow]

You added in clinical signs and glycosuria...

Simple high blood glucose does not a diabetic make...

Nitpicker.

 

[DVMDream]

Nitpicker.

I think you need an understanding somewhere in between. Medicine is not as simple as "this lab value = this disease". There are classic patterns, but more often than not a particular patient doesn't give you the 'classic pattern'. If it were as easy as "high glucose = diabetes" you wouldn't need a doctor.

 

[LetItSnow]

Someone needs to go find her sense of humor.

 

[DVMDream]

Someone needs to go find her sense of humor.

Apparently my sarcasm is failing again....

 

[dyachei]

Both of you are just repeating what I said...

 

[ckurtzzz]

I think you need an understanding somewhere in between. Medicine is not as simple as "this lab value = this disease". There are classic patterns, but more often than not a particular patient doesn't give you the 'classic pattern'. If it were as easy as "high glucose = diabetes" you wouldn't need a doctor.

You probably don't need to remember that this particular transcription factor inhibits this particular gene that blah blah blah..... but you definitely should understand that in this disease, this system is impaired, and this system's impairment means this hormone isn't getting produced which impacts these other systems producing these clinical signs and meaning that these particular drugs are a poor choice.

^that's kind of what I was trying to get at... you just put it in better words.

 

[LetItSnow]

Both of you are just repeating what I said...

Yes, but we say it better.

 

[LetItSnow]

Apparently my sarcasm is failing again....

You only get so much sarcasm per day, and it's late in the day.

 

[dyachei]

^that's kind of what I was trying to get at... you just put it in better words.

Yeah, but the thing LIS is trying to get at is that you DO need to know physiology to a certain extent. Even if you think it is boring.

 

[DVMDream]

You only get so much sarcasm per day, and it's late in the day.

I am sarcastic all day and all night... deal with it.

 

[LetItSnow]

Yeah, but the thing LIS is trying to get at is that you DO need to know physiology to a certain extent. Even if you think it is boring.

So boring. So, so boring.

 

[ckurtzzz]

Yeah, but the thing LIS is trying to get at is that you DO need to know physiology to a certain extent. Even if you think it is boring.

I don't mind gross physiology... tissues and organ systems and bigger... I actually rather enjoy physiology. It's this cellular and molecular stuff that's driving me crazy... We just spent three lectures in genetics talking about the lac operon in bacteria. The ability of E. coli to convert lactose to glucose under certain conditions does not interest me in the slightest.

X-chromosome deactivation leading to calico and tortoiseshell cats? Cool. Effects on the kidney from a lack of insulin? I got this. Whether it is a base-pair substitution in the promoter or inversion of sequence in the operator that caused the insulin not to be produced? Well, something went wrong, but I don't particularly care what.

I guess I just want someone to tell me that even if it gets harder from here it at least gets "bigger."

 

[WildZoo]

I don't mind gross physiology... tissues and organ systems and bigger... I actually rather enjoy physiology. It's this cellular and molecular stuff that's driving me crazy... We just spent three lectures in genetics talking about the lac operon in bacteria. The ability of E. coli to convert lactose to glucose under certain conditions does not interest me in the slightest.

X-chromosome deactivation leading to calico and tortoiseshell cats? Cool. Effects on the kidney from a lack of insulin? I got this. Whether it is a base-pair substitution in the promoter or inversion of sequence in the operator that caused the insulin not to be produced? Well, something went wrong, but I don't particularly care what.

I guess I just want someone to tell me that even if it gets harder from here it at least gets "bigger."

Expect that to come up again. Pretty sure we covered it again in biochem, and we just covered it in microbio.

 

[dyachei]

I don't mind gross physiology... tissues and organ systems and bigger... I actually rather enjoy physiology. It's this cellular and molecular stuff that's driving me crazy... We just spent three lectures in genetics talking about the lac operon in bacteria. The ability of E. coli to convert lactose to glucose under certain conditions does not interest me in the slightest.

X-chromosome deactivation leading to calico and tortoiseshell cats? Cool. Effects on the kidney from a lack of insulin? I got this. Whether it is a base-pair substitution in the promoter or inversion of sequence in the operator that caused the insulin not to be produced? Well, something went wrong, but I don't particularly care what.

I guess I just want someone to tell me that even if it gets harder from here it at least gets "bigger."

It does...until you get to large animal med and certain disease processes. So the point is while we don't dwell on those details often, sometimes you need to know. And thats why you need the groundwork laid in undergrad.

 

[LetItSnow]

I don't mind gross physiology... tissues and organ systems and bigger... I actually rather enjoy physiology. It's this cellular and molecular stuff that's driving me crazy... We just spent three lectures in genetics talking about the lac operon in bacteria. The ability of E. coli to convert lactose to glucose under certain conditions does not interest me in the slightest.

X-chromosome deactivation leading to calico and tortoiseshell cats? Cool. Effects on the kidney from a lack of insulin? I got this. Whether it is a base-pair substitution in the promoter or inversion of sequence in the operator that caused the insulin not to be produced? Well, something went wrong, but I don't particularly care what.

I guess I just want someone to tell me that even if it gets harder from here it at least gets "bigger."

If I understand what you're asking.....

No, it doesn't get more complex in the microscopic biochemistry sense.

You will have to take some more biochem in vet school. And the first year or two of vet school can feel like undergrad. For us, at least, year 3 is when it felt like 'medicine'. And then clinics are very different.

 

[ckurtzzz]

If I understand what you're asking.....

No, it doesn't get more complex in the microscopic biochemistry sense.

You will have to take some more biochem in vet school. And the first year or two of vet school can feel like undergrad. For us, at least, year 3 is when it felt like 'medicine'. And then clinics are very different.

YES. THIS. I need different, at least someday. I can take all of this as long as it changes eventually. I can't analyze lac operons the rest of my life.

 

[Jess Monster]

When I was going through a hate-patch with Ochem in undergrad, it helped to look at what classes my university requires people to take in vet school (also, obviously, asking vet students about their experiences with coursework is helpful). It was comforting to not see a single chemistry specific course in the curriculum, plus it gave me ideas about what elective science classes would be best to take before I applied to vet school.