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CCOM Vs. LECOM Bradenton

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical Osteopathic [ DO ]' started by ajndersn, 11.13.08.

  1. ajndersn

    ajndersn

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    Hey everybody, I'm brand new to this forum and I hope some people could help me out. I'm received acceptances at both CCOM and LECOM-B which are my top two choices. I'm having a really difficult time deciding on which school to go to. I live like 20 minutes from CCOM and think that CCOM has a better reputation and chances for better rotations. However, I'm not sure how I feel about spending ALL day in lecture and then all night at the library vs. LECOM's PBL pathway where everything is basically on your own time. Also, the facilities at CCOM were nice but nothing exceptional. I really liked LECOM-B based on the PBL pathway, scores on the board exams, the facilities, the tuition, the area, and the peope were so nice there. Does anyone know the reputation that LECOM has in the medical world?

    I would REALLY appreciate any input from current applicants and current students! Thank you so much, and good luck to all in this rigorous process!
  2. simbalimba

    simbalimba Junior Member

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    First of all congratulations on your multiple acceptances. I think the general consensus here would be for you to first ask yourself what you are looking for in a school, what are the most important factors for you. Do you prefer PBL or a systems based approach? location? family/friends? tuition? reputation? rotations?... you can my point. Once you figure out what characteristics you are looking for in a school, hopefully it will make your decision easier.
  3. MossPoh

    MossPoh Textures intrigue me

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    These are two very very different places. They'll both get you to where you want to go. I have a friend at CCOM now and he loves it, when he isn't in the standard misery of studying

    You seem to really like Bradenton from the post. The major thing that CCOM has going for it is TONS of great residency programs around the area, it is well known, and Chicago has a lot to offer.

    Now, I'm not sure whether that would be enough to sway me with their gigantic tuition. You are talking A LOT of debt for a slightly shinier name and residency opportunities that probably don't mean too much since you have to work hard at both places anyway. If you love PBL and know you'd be happy, I'd go to Bradenton in a second. I have other reasons for choosing a school over Bradenton right now...but it was nothing the school did wrong. They are doing everything right, and I have never heard anything but positive things for the place.

    Facilities don't mean much to me anymore. It is nice to have shiny new stuff, but the fact is that you'll only be there for two years anyway and as long as I have comfortable chairs and a big desk, I am fine. That is my personal thing though.
  4. McDirty

    McDirty

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    I am in your same boat. I am from the chicago area, but I will be attending LECOM-B. Sounds like you want to attend LECOM-B, but its just the location thing. My number one decision was the PBL pathway because I cannot stand being in lecture all day. Next, I hate winter, except when I am blacked out leaving a bar at 2 a.m. And finally, the last thign I based it off of was tuition. I just believe that tradition has nothing to do with how well YOU will perform. If you try hard enough, and put time into it, study and get good exam scores, they arent neccessarily going to base it off of the school you graduated from.
  5. andexterouss

    andexterouss

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    It's seems you are worried about reputation. I'll give you a clue: If you are applying to MD residencies then know this that they tend to lump ALL DO schools together. Why? Because DO schools aren't ranked. Most of these MD programs can't tell the schools apart. All they know is that it's a DO school. There maybe regional preferences for a particular school but that in no way means the school is "superior". If you wanna practice in Chicago tend I'd say go to CCOM because you'll be rotating there and will have ample opportunities to impress programs there.

    Unless you are deciding between Harvard and some state school, reputation of a school is moot.
    When MD students are applying for residencies only those from Top 10 schools hold advantage because of the prestige their degrees bring to the program. 2nd and 3rd Tier MD schools are not differentiate. They are viewed the same. I know this because I'm familiar with the programs at Cornell and Columbia in NYC. Students from top 10 are given "extra" points during ranking. Everyone else is in an even playing field(US MD students that is).

    On a side note, a student from LECOM matched at an allopathic university neurosurgery program(LSU). You can check the Osteo forum for the link.

    I personally will pick LECOM....great weather, tuition and nice facilities. Chicago is a beautiful city but the winter is dreadful!
  6. ajndersn

    ajndersn

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    Wow, thank you all for the amazing input in such a short amount of time! Quick question, does anyone know the quality of the rotations at LECOM-B? I would imagine they would not be as good as the rotations at CCOM. Also, I guess something that I failed to mention is my likelihood of obtaining a residency in the Chicago area once I graduate. I'm not totally sure if I would want to do a residency in Chicago, but it does have the pluses of having some of the best hospitals in the nation. So if I did go to LECOM-B, is it likely that I would be able to get a residency in Chicago? I mean, I could potentially do some of my elective rotations in Chicago, right? Also, I have an established doctor mentor/friend at the University of Chicago who I would think could connect with some people that he knows. So with that being said, if I wanted to come home to Chicago for a residency, is it feasible? Thanks again everyone for helping out a confused future medical student!
  7. MossPoh

    MossPoh Textures intrigue me

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    The rotations are fine. If you check out out the LECOM-B thread there is talk about it, mostly stemmed from me. Bradenton students actually rotate with some of the FSU college of medicine students.
  8. BCLumas

    BCLumas Member

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    I say LECOM-B over everything. I might have a slight bias.

    Good luck!
  9. Kateb4

    Kateb4

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    I had this same decision to make last year. For me, the thing that made my decision was the PBL. With LECOM, you are able to go back to Chicago for elective rotations, but of course that is really limited. If you are set to stay in the Chicago area, CCOM may be a better option. If you are not tied to the area, I really have to say that PBL is really great, and I think that the program here prepares us well for the years ahead.
  10. EEL08

    EEL08

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    I vote CCOM but then again I am a big fan of Chicago so I'm at least a little biased. :D
  11. udsoccer7

    udsoccer7

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    That is a tough decision. I am was accepted at both schools last year and had a similiar deicision to make. Although, my decision was between CCOM and PCOM. I think your decision should be based on how you learn best and how you want your life structured the next four years of medical school.

    I know that CCOM is lecture based, but I do not believe they have required attendance for class. So, you really don't have to attend class all day if you don't want to. I'm sure they have lectures recorded and a scribe note system. Definitely find out if this is true. The only negative I remember about CCOM is that they have quizzes every monday. They have great rotation sites and a match list that is very strong. Plus, I think you would save money by staying in Chicago seeing as you could live at home if you wanted to do so. CCOM i believe is the 3rd oldest DO medical school in the nation. At the end of the day, you can't beat experience.

    As for LECOM-B, it is building a strong reputation, but is still a young school. Their match list is supposedly very good (although I have not seen it). I'm not sure about their rotations though. Seeing as you won't be going on rotations for another three years, this will afford them to build more relationships with hospital and clinics in the area. I was not a big fan of the dress code and the rules about eat and drinking in the building. Plus, I am a big fan of lectures, and seeing as they didn't have lectures for most of their classes, LECOM-B wasn't a good fit for me. The area is beautiful and if you decide that you want to stay there after medical school, the oppurtunity to open a practice would be great. There is a ton of room for development in the area, and if you were interested in Geriatrics I couldn't think of a better area (maybe Arizona) to be practicing medicine.

    I hope this helps. I tried to be as objective as possible while offering my experiences. At the end of the day, an osteopathic education is going to be an expensive endevour, so you may not want that to be your #1 reason for choosing a school. Some things to consider:

    family and friends, opportunities available at each school, where you see yourself living after medical school, the type of students at the institutions, the professors, research opportunities, clinical rotations, board scores, the type of medicine you want to practice, the type of city you want to practice medicine in (Metropolitan area vs. smaller towns), and last and most importantly, do you think you will truely be happy living there for four years. This last one was a biggy for me and I wish I would have taken this into consideration a lot more. Philadelphia is not nearly as cool/fun as Chicago. Although I am enjoying my time, four years from now I'm sure I'll be itching to get back to Chicago ASAP.

    I hope this helps and best of luck in making your decision. At the end of the day, be happy with the decsion you make. Don't let this stress you though. There are thousands of students who are dying to be in your position. Enjoy the opportunity that you have, and feel blessed that you get to make such a great deicision.
  12. BCLumas

    BCLumas Member

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    First of all, OP, don't think because something is a "newer" school it automatically isn't going to be as good as an "older" school. Over the past two years, LECOM-B has tied for first in the nation on their COMLEX-II PE exam with a 100% pass rate. They have also placed second in the nation with a 97.4% pass rate on COMLEX-I. The next highest in the nation was 98.1% pass rate. Our school was 1 person shy of tying that number.

    Next, just because you attend a school in Florida does not automattically mean you have to jump into something like Geriatrics. Since the Match list was not posted, I'll drop it here. Keep in mind that the class that is posted is NOT the class that rocked the boards with the scores I just posted. Those people are set to graduate this upcoming year. Just imagine where they're going to place.

    As for the "LDP v PBL" debate: PBL seems to scare people away because there is a perceived lack of structure. In my own humbled opinion, it places the owness of my education squarely on my shoulders. It gives me a chance to make what I want out of my education. Talking with hospitals the other day during a Hospital day, they always mention how they love LECOM-B students attending their schools because they have had PBL already. They already know how to access their books for information and use them effectively. On the other hand, sometimes the LDP students have (from what I have been told) had some degree of difficulty adjusting to the free learning lifestyle. PBL prepares you for that independant learning life later on.

    When you interview here you get to sit in on a PBL session. Just hop into the LECOM-B thread and ask them how smart the students are. I know that I volunteered as a first-year-only PBL session (normally the sessions you view are OMS-IIs) and the results were great.

    I digress. Good luck with your decision and congratulations on your acceptances.

    Attached Files:

  13. PunkmedGirl

    PunkmedGirl Freshman Member

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    :thumbup: Gosh I love you and DIGi
  14. BCLumas

    BCLumas Member

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    :D Thank you so much! I'm glad I can help. I'm sure Digi feels the same way.

    Good luck!
  15. PunkmedGirl

    PunkmedGirl Freshman Member

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    No problem. :)
  16. ajndersn

    ajndersn

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    Well after hours of critically thinking about this, I am definitely favoring LECOM at this moment. However, there is one thing holding my decision back right now. After talking to many doctors and medical students, they say that the last 2 years (rotations) are probably the most important part of medical school. Obviously the science behind medicine is very important, and I feel that I would definitely learn it better through PBL as opposed to lectures at CCOM. But, in the grand scheme of things, you are learning the same thing just in two different ways - with PBL better preparing you for clinical experience. Anyways, back to the rotation thing, I almost feel that if I attend LECOM I will be comprimising my rotations due to the quality of the rotations offered at CCOM. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are some great sites at LECOM, but I'm guessing there are some not so great sites. In Chicago, you know that you will be getting the best rotations because of the city and the reputation of the hospitals in the area. I really want to attend to LECOM, but I also want to know that I am guranteed excellent rotations which CCOM has the upper hand in. Any advice!!!?
  17. 213965

    213965

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    I haven't interviewed (or heavily researched) either of the schools, so my opinion probably means little to nothing, but in your situation, I would personally chose CCOM. Good luck in whatever you decide to do :)
  18. MossPoh

    MossPoh Textures intrigue me

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    It is a legitimate concern. That being said, the rotations at LECOM-B will get you wherever you want to go. The LECOM network is a pretty good one with lots of residency opportunities (mostly originating from the LECOM-Erie area). I can tell you that they rotate with FSU students at a few places, and FSU doesn't seem to have a problem putting students in competitive residencies. I'm sure a current 3rd or 4th year will come in and say more, but they put my mind to ease with it. The real money winner is the openness that LECOM allows. Your audition rotations can be what makes or breaks you with a potential program and Bradenton gives you plenty of time.

    I'm accepted at Bradenton and am currently leaning away from it, but it has more to do with personal reasons and the support network in place at my other school I am holding an acceptance to. If you are a driven student that doesn't like having your hand held every step of the way then Bradenton is outstanding.

    That is not taking ANYTHING away from CCOM. CCOM is a fantastic school with a long history, great rotations, and everything to make you a solid physician. You have to ask yourself which way will YOU learn better. In the end, you are deciding which degree hangs on your wall. You want to look at the piece of paper that makes you smile and not the piece that you just kind of shrug at.
  19. ajndersn

    ajndersn

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    MossPoh, Bclumas, and udsoccer, thank you all for your help, its been amazing!! Does anyone know the residency match rates for LECOM-B? Looking at other aspects, LECOM has CCOM beat in COMLEX I (98% compared to 92%), COMLEX II (100% compared to 96%). On the CCOM website, it says CCOM's match rate for the class of 2007 is 79% (national avg. is 68%). Any info on the class of 2008 match rates? Right now, LECOM is looking to be a clear favorite.
  20. scpod

    scpod Moderator Emeritus

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    Individual rotations may differ significantly, regardless of the location or hospital. Like any other part of medical school, you need to work hard to get the most out of it. It's possible to get a crappy intern, resident or attending anywhere, and that can significantly alter your experience.
  21. TeamZissou

    TeamZissou PGY1

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    Be careful when considering passing rates. I know that AZCOM has one of the highest passing rates in the nation (in the top 4 schools) however they also do a great job of not letting their students take the test if they will not pass it. Thus the only true measure in this area would be the average scores for schools. However the average scores are not available to the public and schools blatantly lie about them.

    As far as match rates go.... there is fluffing of these numbers as well. At my AZCOM interview we were told that something like 92% of their class got one of the top 3 picks for residency and all of them matched. This compared with my CCOM interview where the Dean told us that 81% of their class got their TOP pick. So you take your pick between which statistic looks better to you. I would say that because there is so much fluffing the numbers its not reasonable to base your decisions on percentages because its unreliable.

    Best of luck!:thumbup:

    Also note that just because they have a high match rate that isn't necessarily better. There could have easily been a kid applying to plastics who just simply didn't have the scores to do so and didn't match. This is a reflection of the individual's personal decisions rather than the schools ability to get them to match...
    Last edited: 11.16.08
  22. PBL DO

    PBL DO

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    There is some truth to what TeamZissou is saying, numbers are fudged one way or another regardless of what school you are considering. So many students are concerned with these types of statistics going into medical school but I would be careful about how much emphasis you put on them. If not because of the huge variability of each individual student and the difficulty of comparing the average to one random student, more importantly you must be comfortable with the format of learning and the environment in which you receive your medical education. LECOM-B and CCOM are night and day in terms of the foundation in which you build your medical profession.

    PBL is greatly emphasized at LECOM-B during your interview as you have undoubtedly noticed. They really expect you to be a self-motivated learner and fully embrace the system as a means of acquiring nearly all of your basic sciences without any lectures. There is absolutely help if you need it, and given the immense success of the school in its short time span they prove if you follow this pathways direction you will be successful.

    If you chose a PBL curriculum you must be a self-directed learner. You perform best in a small group combined with some independent study of concepts integrated over all the basic sciences. This is an alternative to lectures that focus on a particular basic science in a linear fashion. All of that is necessary to be successful at a school like LECOM-B, but it is *not* sufficient. Do not underestimate the fact that you not only prefer to be self-directed but must be extremely self-motivated.

    You are given great freedom in what you chose to study. The program is designed so that you have the opportunity to learn everything you need to know in your first 2 years at least 2-3 times. Each case is carefully constructed so that every aspect of the basic sciences in medicine is there for you to discover. That being said, no one is telling you what you need to study. You have facilitators to provide direction and current students to draw experiences from but at the end of the day it is up to you to do the work. If you decide to ignore some aspect of the case because you don't like it or it's too much work you can chose to not be tested on it and get by, but it translates into holes in your education.

    If you are self-motivated, however, this is the best way to learn medicine. The cases are interactive and fun. They motivate you to learn the basic sciences that sometimes seem like minutia or irrelevant to the practice of medicine because they apply to a "real" patient. You learn very early what tests to order and what the expected values are for when you actually apply your knowledge in the field. I end up reading concepts from physiology, pathology, histology, genetics, and biochemistry relevant to a particular mechanism and thus incorporate it in my memory much more efficiently than if I didn't tie ideas together in a linear LDP. The benefits of PBL go on. For them to serve you the best you have to use them without expecting anyone to tell you what to do.

    If you follow this advice and trust the program you will do very well on COMLEX. Furthermore, from listening to 3/4 year students and the hospitals they rotate at, you will be ahead of the curve and better prepared than some colleagues from different education pathways. This will translate into a better opportunity for the residency you want. Of course, it's never the school or the statistic that gets you what you want, its you. In what way will the education be presented for you to get done what you want?
  23. BCLumas

    BCLumas Member

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    The Manatee strikes again. Yo. Post this in the LECOM-B 2013 thread.

    Ring-ring in 10.
  24. MossPoh

    MossPoh Textures intrigue me

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    That is a confusing statistic. Is it first choice match? I highly doubt that nearly 20% of the class is left to scramble at any school. If you work hard and you are honest with yourself then your personal match rate will be 100%. If you slack and think you are a better applicant than you really are, you will be scrambling for a spot in some malignant program.
  25. Sam212

    Sam212 Lover not a fighter

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    I think you ought to apply to SIU if you love PBL. I think they are the school that invented PBL. Besides, you are instate so tuition will definitely be a plus. And you will have excellent clinical opportunities like CCOM along with the luxury of being close to home.

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