cGPA ~3.8, 31 MCAT

[krogers21]

I figured I might as well do one.

cGPA = ~3.8 (3.44 GPA from 1st institution, 3.98 GPA from second)
Residence: Indiana
MCAT: 31 (11/9/11)
ECs:
co-founder and co-president of global health chapter on campus; personally managed benefit dinner (with silent auction) to accumulate over $3000 for partner organization in Ecuador. Currently working on health run to raise more money for partner org.

2-term treasurer of undergraduate, national chemistry group, managing finances of chemistry-department-wide fundraiser. Assisted in organization of child-based science fair for 3 consecutive years.

1-week mission trip to Honduras where I worked alongside a team to drill wells in villages to allow closer proximity to clean water. I also assisted in teaching children hygiene tips.

1-week religious alternative spring break trip to Florida alongside members of my religious organization. (Please, do not turn this into a creationism vs. evolution debate. Thank you!)

2-year residential assistant - Aided on-campus students in a residence hall in academic and personal affairs, dealing with extreme situations of suicide-management, alcohol poisoning (clinical volunteering? haha), as well as, minor situations such as roommate conflicts, and marijuana and alcohol usage in the hall. Has helped establish physician-related skills like waking up at 4 a.m. (being on-call sucks!), diagnosing issues, and working under pressure.

2 years physical chemistry research - Worked on initial research for miniature ion mobility spectrometer construction where I have tested the efficacy of Arduino boards on processing a miniature IMS for data acquisition; read literature on current IMS studies, attempting to find parameters necessary for optimal selectivity and sensitivity; and currently creating an efficient production method for making home-made corona discharge needles on micron-level scales (any help? ). Will be presenting findings in two weeks at the ACS national conference in Texas this year. (If you're gonna be there, come to my station!)

Expected internship this summer at my local, rural hospital, integrating ~150-200 hours of shadowing with unknown hours of clinical volunteering. Also currently have around 15 hours of shadowing a radiologist.

List:

Right now, I only have:
IUSoM (Indy) - EDP route. (Potentially retaking to give me more options; however, I may not if I can't improve to at least a 34.)

Any ideas on school choices? I don't know much about other institutions as my undergrad is sub-par at producing medical students, so my pre-health advisor always pushes for IU and DO schools. From what I have seen on MSAR, I can pretty much kiss my chances of all top tier schools goodbye unless I retake and score 36+ and even then I'm not sure.

Dream schools: Yale, Baylor (I want to live in Texas), Duke, Brown (I am partial because I wanted to attend their undergrad.), and all other top 20s.

All help is greatly appreciated. I know I'm pretty much as average as it comes, so I would love advice on improving my options.

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[krogers21]

I hate to bump my own WAMC thread, but I would REALLY enjoy your assistance. I'm hoping to think of other schools OOS.

 

[gyngyn]

I hate to bump my own WAMC thread, but I would REALLY enjoy your assistance. I'm hoping to think of other schools OOS.

Creighton, Loyola, SLU, Loma Linda, Georgetown.

 

[krogers21]

Creighton, Loyola, SLU, Loma Linda, Georgetown.

Thank you! I'm unsure on the competitiveness of these schools, so it is nice knowing that these schools are within range.

If you apply Early Decision to IU, you can't apply to other schools until after October 1. So think long and hard about that kind of decision.

Use the MSAR to find schools with stats in your GPA/MCAT range. If you want to go to a top school, your MCAT will have to improve.

I've been considering EDP at IU as a nearly guaranteed acceptance to med school (this year 74 of 77 EDP were accepted). However, I want to travel and explore other areas of the country having lived in the same state for my entire life. Having traveled extensively in college has shown me that there is a lot out in the world besides coming from a small southern Indiana town. In fact, I grew up oblivious to the way society actually works, haha. As for my MCAT, I am planning on studying and hoping I get a significant increase -as I will have time at the start of the summer - based on my incapabilities of adequately studying last summer due to summer research.

 

[gyngyn]

If you get the MSAR you will see that a re-take is not necessary. Retakes can always hurt...

 

[krogers21]

I'm very much aware of the chance I would be taking if I retake. That is why I refuse to retake unless I am averaging 36+ on exams. When I took the exam I was very busy with research, then school. I feel like adequately studying for a month after school - taking at the beginning of June - will allow me to increase substantially. Spending only a week strictly on studying allowed me to go from a high of a 26 to a 31 on the actual exam when I'm by no means superb at excelling under pressure.

With all that aside, I would love to hear of more schools to look into. I'm not really well-versed in med schools, and while I know MSAR can provide me school information, it seems like I can only understand how I stand based solely on MCAT scores when I know ECs are vital to acceptance for a lot of schools.

 

[krogers21]

Thank you. I think I would definitely have a shot at IU in regular decision, but I want Indy - and would hate to go most other locations - because my girlfriend will be attending IUPUI grad school most likely. At any rate, I think Georgetown would be phenomenal to attend, but I have heard they are ridiculously low in acceptance rates (~3).

 

[krogers21]

So I've been thinking about schools. Here's what I've got so far.

Schools if I retake MCAT and get 35+:

JHU
Cornell
Duke
Columbia
Baylor
Harvard
NYU

Current schools:

Reach:
Dartmouth
USC-Keck
Tulane
Brown
Northwestern
Tufts
Emory
Pitt

In-reach?:
Georgetown
Loyola
Loma Linda
Creighton
Penn State
UNC-Chapel Hill
SLU

Safety:
IU (home state)
FSU
Louisville
Cincinnati


Recommendations? There's probably a lot I'm forgetting.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm very much aware of the chance I would be taking if I retake. That is why I refuse to retake unless I am averaging 36+ on exams.

Applicants who re-take a good score are viewed differently than those who re-take weak scores.

 

[krogers21]

Applicants who re-take a good score are viewed differently than those who re-take weak scores.

Are you indicating I shouldn't retake then?

Cincinnati has an MCAT average of 32.5, making it a poor choice for a safety school with your current MCAT.
Florida State only enrolls 2.5% out of state, another poor choice for a safety.

I would consider EVMS, NYMC, Rosy F, U of Toledo, Wayne State for "safeties".

Sources:
https://www.med.uc.edu/about/college/quickfacts
https://www.aamc.org/download/161128/data/table1.pdf

Thanks for the info. Wasn't sure about FSU.

 

[gyngyn]

Are you indicating I shouldn't retake then? .

I want you to be aware of the risks of a retake that may not be immediately apparent to you. An informed decision must include all relevant risks as well as perceived potential benefits.

 

[krogers21]

Ahh I see. Yeah I'm definitely not retaking unless it is practically certain I will score significantly higher. I am fully aware of the risk that is taken with retaking and only increasing a little.

 

[gyngyn]

Ahh I see. Yeah I'm definitely not retaking unless it is practically certain I will score significantly higher. I am fully aware of the risk that is taken with retaking and only increasing a little.

The personality of someone who retakes a good score isn't necessarily what we are looking for. This is independent of the change in score.

 

[krogers21]

The personality of someone who retakes a good score isn't necessarily what we are looking for. This is independent of the change in score.

I see. Thank you for this wonderful insight. I guess I just am not quite sure how "good" is defined. Certainly a 31 is a very welcoming score, and I am beyond ecstatic that I was given an opportunity to receive the score. But when someone who believes they can score a 40 received a 30, is this demonstrating a negative side to a candidate to retake? I'm by no means suggesting I think so highly of myself. I just believe that I can always strive for improvement, so I don't see how that is a negative personality trait. I suppose I am naive in this regard, so I would love to understand more of what you mean. Retaking to me wouldn't be purely out of scaling higher on the "medical hierarchy," rather allowing more options and scholarship opportunities to present themselves to me as I would love to not be in debt.

 

[gyngyn]

I see. Thank you for this wonderful insight. I guess I just am not quite sure how "good" is defined. Certainly a 31 is a very welcoming score, and I am beyond ecstatic that I was given an opportunity to receive the score. But when someone who believes they can score a 40 received a 30, is this demonstrating a negative side to a candidate to retake? I'm by no means suggesting I think so highly of myself. I just believe that I can always strive for improvement, so I don't see how that is a negative personality trait. I suppose I am naive in this regard, so I would love to understand more of what you mean. Retaking to me wouldn't be purely out of scaling higher on the "medical hierarchy," rather allowing more options and scholarship opportunities to present themselves to me as I would love to not be in debt.

You may have the most pure of intentions. However, I think you can see that the personality traits of someone who believes that they "deserve better" will, over time be more likely to be found in the group that re-takes a good score. There is a poster named Irish Football whose history might be helpful here.

 

[krogers21]

You may have the most pure of intentions. However, I think you can see that the personality traits of someone who believes that they "deserve better" will, over time be more likely to be found in the group that re-takes a good score. There is a poster named Irish Football whose history might be helpful here.

I see. I read up on him/her, not quite sure. Anyways, thank you for this. I truly appreciate your advise. I am certainly pleased to have the score I got. I guess it is mostly nerves getting to me that my score won't get me into medical school. Would you say my ECs are average or better than average? (hopefully not sub-par)

I'm tending to lean more towards making the rest of my application strong.

 

[Wheatthins]

Unless you are dead set on the highest tier school, and assuming a 31 is near the average of schools that interest you, I would not re-take.
I would use the same time and effort to do something you have a passion about, especially when that passion adds to your professional experience. I would use also use some of that same time and effort to apply broadly.

Trips to Honduras are great when they are a part of a pattern of volunteerism. Maybe something along those lines. Maybe something local.

 

[krogers21]

Thanks! I have just had a dream of attending Duke that I feel like I've missed POSSIBLY accomplishing because of a standardized test says I'm 3-4 points from their average.

Dreams die hard! Haha

 

[gyngyn]

Thanks! I have just had a dream of attending Duke that I feel like I've missed POSSIBLY accomplishing because of a standardized test says I'm 3-4 points from their average.

Dreams die hard! Haha

The schools that review you will know this if you re-take the test!

 

[krogers21]

The schools that review you will know this if you re-take the test!

Oh gyngyn. I haven't forgotten your advise. I'm just saying it sucks to be so close to being competitive at your dream school.

 

[gyngyn]

Oh gyngyn. I haven't forgotten your advise. I'm just saying it sucks to be so close to being competitive at your dream school.

Dream schools are like dream girls: better in the abstract than reality.

 

[bambam92]

Dream schools are like dream girls: better in the abstract than reality.

If OP can manage 35+ on practice AAMC FL's I say he/she should retake. 35+ MCAT paired with their 3.8 GPA literally turns their application around versus with a 31. Right now OP is looking at low to mid tiers. If op gets a 35+ he/she can apply to some top 20 schools. @ OP I saw your list you compiled if you break 35+ on retake, and if you have strong interest in attending some of those schools you should retake! Your GPA is already there. I am not sure why @gyngyn is making it seem like a retake is such a deleterious move, but I'm sure some adcoms will be receptive of your retake. Again a 3.8/31 is way different than a 3.8/35+. As of now I feel you are good to get in somewhere, but like you are saying with a 35+ MCAT all of a sudden you have a shot at top schools.

 

[gyngyn]

If OP can manage 35+ on practice AAMC FL's I say he/she should retake. 35+ MCAT paired with their 3.8 GPA literally turns their application around versus with a 31. Right now OP is looking at low to mid tiers. If op gets a 35+ he/she can apply to some top 20 schools. @ OP I saw your list you compiled if you break 35+ on retake, and if you have strong interest in attending some of those schools you should retake! Your GPA is already there. I am not sure why @gyngyn is making it seem like a retake is such a deleterious move, but I'm sure some adcoms will be receptive of your retake. Again a 3.8/31 is way different than a 3.8/35+. As of now I feel you are good to get in somewhere, but like you are saying with a 35+ MCAT all of a sudden you have a shot at top schools.

Some things begin to tell a different story than what would be apparent from only the applicant's view. Retakes are one of these. A well-informed decision includes knowledge of risks as well as benefits.

 

[Redpancreas]

So I've been thinking about schools. Here's what I've got so far.

Schools if I retake MCAT and get 35+:

JHU
Cornell
Duke
Columbia
Baylor
Harvard
NYU

Current schools:


Recommendations? There's probably a lot I'm forgetting.

I'm not adcom but here's my version of your list given your current MCAT. Sorry if I'm dropping your standards but I've seen students with higher MCATs and more extensive ECs ending up snubbed.

Long-Shot but still apply, you never know:
Northwestern
Pitt
Emory

Reach:
(Note that all these besides Cincinnati which is only a bit cheaper will be quite expensive!)
Dartmouth
USC-Keck
Tulane-
Brown
Tufts
Georgetown-great choice, I think you'd fit well here
Cincinnati-great choice!

In-reach:

Loyola-realize this isn't ranked in research
Loma Linda-would you be a good fit for this school...? You seem religiously involved but I've heard this school takes it to a new level
Creighton-realize the recent troubles with the hospital
Penn State-realize this isn't ranked in research
SLU-great choice!
FSU-it's a public school, regardless of how awesome you are, public schools have IS quotas and then look for spectacular OOS applicants.
Louisville-also a public school (see above)

Safety:
IU (home state)-there's really no such thing as a safety in these processes.


Regarding all this safety school stuff, I think it's difficult to regard schools as safeties based on any numerical evidence. I considered schools 3-4 MCAT pt. averages and 0.1-0.2 GPA averages to be safeties but I haven't even been invited to interview at any of the 5-10 of them.
Reason? I'm not positive but I think that schools look at your stats and actually sometimes mark you as overqualified. Think of what they have to do. They have to recruit a group of enthusiastic and successful students who want to come to their school. Once they enroll IS students, I think they start picking OOS students by looking for diversity and all that jazz (i.e. now we're looking to fill spot #143 with a student who has this kind of research and is URM, etc.). Now, if you fall through the cracks and end up not getting through anywhere, my guess is these safety schools look back and see you've not been admitted anywhere and scurry to interview invite you knowing you'll want to come to the school now that your options have run dry.

 

[Redpancreas]

Cincinnati has an MCAT average of 32.5, making it a poor choice for a safety school with your current MCAT.
Florida State only enrolls 2.5% out of state, another poor choice for a safety.

I would consider EVMS, NYMC, Rosy F, U of Toledo, Wayne State for "safeties".

Sources:
https://www.med.uc.edu/about/college/quickfacts
https://www.aamc.org/download/161128/data/table1.pdf

This is actually not a bad OOS safety list but, again, I really don't believe in safeties but if you do, these might be some viable ones.

 

[hubriz]

So I've been thinking about schools. Here's what I've got so far.

Schools if I retake MCAT and get 35+:

JHU
Cornell
Duke
Columbia
Baylor
Harvard
NYU

Current schools:

Reach:
Dartmouth
USC-Keck
Tulane
Brown
Northwestern
Tufts
Emory
Pitt

In-reach?:
Georgetown
Loyola
Loma Linda
Creighton
Penn State
UNC-Chapel Hill
SLU

Safety:
IU (home state)
FSU
Louisville
Cincinnati


Recommendations? There's probably a lot I'm forgetting.

Chapel Hill has a big IS preference. It would be a reach school.

 

[krogers21]

I'm not adcom but here's my version of your list given your current MCAT. Sorry if I'm dropping your standards but I've seen students with higher MCATs and more extensive ECs ending up snubbed.

Long-Shot but still apply, you never know:
Northwestern
Pitt
Emory

Reach:
(Note that all these besides Cincinnati which is only a bit cheaper will be quite expensive!)
Dartmouth
USC-Keck
Tulane-
Brown
Tufts
Georgetown-great choice, I think you'd fit well here
Cincinnati-great choice!

In-reach:

Loyola-realize this isn't ranked in research
Loma Linda-would you be a good fit for this school...? You seem religiously involved but I've heard this school takes it to a new level
Creighton-realize the recent troubles with the hospital
Penn State-realize this isn't ranked in research
SLU-great choice!
FSU-it's a public school, regardless of how awesome you are, public schools have IS quotas and then look for spectacular OOS applicants.
Louisville-also a public school (see above)

Safety:
IU (home state)-there's really no such thing as a safety in these processes.


Regarding all this safety school stuff, I think it's difficult to regard schools as safeties based on any numerical evidence. I considered schools 3-4 MCAT pt. averages and 0.1-0.2 GPA averages to be safeties but I haven't even been invited to interview at any of the 5-10 of them.
Reason? I'm not positive but I think that schools look at your stats and actually sometimes mark you as overqualified. Think of what they have to do. They have to recruit a group of enthusiastic and successful students who want to come to their school. Once they enroll IS students, I think they start picking OOS students by looking for diversity and all that jazz (i.e. now we're looking to fill spot #143 with a student who has this kind of research and is URM, etc.). Now, if you fall through the cracks and end up not getting through anywhere, my guess is these safety schools look back and see you've not been admitted anywhere and scurry to interview invite you knowing you'll want to come to the school now that your options have run dry.

Thanks for the input! Do you think duke or cornell is beyond long shot? Their tenth percentile is 31 much like Emory, northwestern, and Pitt. My GPA is more like a 3.9 (I haven't actually calculated as i went to two schools.) 3.44 with 16 credits. And a 3.98 with 70+ credits.

As for URM, I am not legally URM although I consider myself URM although I didn't say so on my mcat. I am 1/8 Native American qualifying me through the government if I verified as affiliating with a tribe and can prove my ancestry, but I've never invested because most family isn't doing well and I have no connections with the Cherokee.

Do you think this could at least be mentioned in my personal statement? Not sure how the whole URM thing goes because I don't want to necessarily get in to fulfill a schools URM requirements.

I really feel like I could've done better on the MCAT based on my lack of completely focused study time due to research, but I've exhausted all aamc's and think it would be hard to adequately verify that I will do significantly better. I would love to go to Duke because it seems like a really awesome program, but I mostly want to be a doctor. As for Georgetown, I would be so excited to attend there. I love their mission statement as I think Cura Personalis philosophy is great. For Loma Linda, I like their religious principles, but I'm not really that denomination so I don't think basing my decision on that would be wise. Dartmouth would also be awesome because I think they've also got a pretty cool program and Hanover seems nice. Same with tufts.
My LizzyM is a ~69.3, which puts me in the "hopeful" for a lot of schools like Cornell and duke (two dream schools), but it seems like this can't be right or something?

 

[Redpancreas]

Thanks for the input! Do you think duke or cornell is beyond long shot? Their tenth percentile is 31 much like Emory, northwestern, and Pitt. My GPA is more like a 3.9 (I haven't actually calculated as i went to two schools.) 3.44 with 16 credits. And a 3.98 with 70+ credits.

As for URM, I am not legally URM although I consider myself URM although I didn't say so on my mcat. I am 1/8 Native American qualifying me through the government if I verified as affiliating with a tribe and can prove my ancestry, but I've never invested because most family isn't doing well and I have no connections with the Cherokee.

Do you think this could at least be mentioned in my personal statement? Not sure how the whole URM thing goes because I don't want to necessarily get in to fulfill a schools URM requirements.

I really feel like I could've done better on the MCAT based on my lack of completely focused study time due to research, but I've exhausted all aamc's and think it would be hard to adequately verify that I will do significantly better. I would love to go to Duke because it seems like a really awesome program, but I mostly want to be a doctor. As for Georgetown, I would be so excited to attend there. I love their mission statement as I think Cura Personalis philosophy is great. For Loma Linda, I like their religious principles, but I'm not really that denomination so I don't think basing my decision on that would be wise. Dartmouth would also be awesome because I think they've also got a pretty cool program and Hanover seems nice. Same with tufts.
My LizzyM is a ~69.3, which puts me in the "hopeful" for a lot of schools like Cornell and duke (two dream schools), but it seems like this can't be right or something?

Go with what the adcoms here are telling you. I'm not sure and also wasn't aware that you were URM.

 

[krogers21]

I'm not URM in accordance to amcas but technically qualify.

 

[krogers21]

Another bump. Sorry, felt like this would be the best place to post. Any suggestions on how to make my ECs better ?? I feel like they're "decent" but not phenomenal.

 

[13132]

I'm not URM in accordance to amcas but technically qualify.

What does that mean?

 

[krogers21]

What does that mean?

First of all, I don't think you should assume such a huge increase on your MCAT. I am going to give advise on a score range from 30-33 since thats probably where you will score on a retake (which I don't even think you should do).

I am a non-URM Indiana resident who had a 31/3.9 with strong ECs. If you want my school list (a list I had lots of success with: 8 interviews) then PM me. I put a lot of time and research into my list, and I will actually just send you a detailed application log that I have kept in excel if you want.

I don't know what the URM status will do for you, but I can tell you that, with stats similar to yours, I got rejected super quickly from all of my reach schools and they weren't even quite as "reachy" as yours. My reaches were USC, Boston, Einstein, and Rochester.

I would love to see this list! That's essentially my main objective - finding out my chances at schools.

What does that mean?

I've been told that you have to claim URM when you take the MCAT. I was under the impression you have to legally be denoted as this ethnicity and not self identify. See, I'm Native American (1/8th) but I have no affiliation with my tribe, so I'm not legally Native American. But from what I have read, you "self-identify" as URM. Well, I consider myself Native American, but never registered during the mcat as URM. Plus, I feel like it's kinda cheating the system or something to do so despite the reality of the fact that I am actually URM.

 

[krogers21]

Update** I'm now tutoring a high school student in AP Chemistry 5 hours a week.

I'm curious, what does it take to show that a few MCAT points (3-4) are irrelevant because of my entirely busy schedule?

 

[Redpancreas]

Don't expect that "update" to make a splash. Also, I don't understand your question. Do you mean, how do I tell medical schools my MCAT was lower because your schedule was incredibly busy? Everyone who manages to pull a decent app off together by their end of junior year was incredibly busy:

Things to do:

-Bio, Chem, Orgo, Physics I, II+ lab, English req, and math req. That's about a good 48 credits right there. that you'll need to complete prior to the end of sophomore year.
-Add on any additional major requirements.
-Add on job experience (minimum 10 hrs/week)
-Add on research (minimum: least 4 hrs, 2 days a week)
-Add on clinical experience (minimum: 4 hrs/week)
-Add on shadowing (30 hrs.)
-Add on passions that you're supposed to have time to be pursuing (varies)
-MCAT (an entire summer and if not, a semester from hell junior year)
-Add on staying fit and having a social life.


Everyone who's applying right out of college is in the same boat as you