DO cGPA and sGPA 3.44, great ECs, PS, and stellar LORs, BUT underperformed on MCAT

[Doctor_Strange]

Hey,

So I got a 497 (123, 123, 125, 126) on the MCAT. Can't believe it since I got a 504 on the AAMC scored practice. But, I attended a top 10 liberal arts school in the South, and I really believe and have been told that my ECs, PS, and LORs are abvoe average quality. I know this won't necessarily carry me though.

I plan on sending in my app today with that MCAT score and over the next few days decided if I want to retake for a September 10th test date. I never scored below a 123 on the CARS so I am frankly anxious of taking it again. I know the advice will be to take it again, but I wanted to know if there were any schools I could apply to with my stats, especially the newer ones.

On a related note, how would it work if I do decide to retake my MCAT--do I still send in my app? Will schools place me on hold or could they send me IIs as well.

Sorry, I feel sort of lost at the moment. I for sure was expecting a 501 or 502....

Thanks for any constructive advice and guidance.

edit: tl,dr what low tier schools do I have a shot at? BCOM, ACOM? I would even go to LUCOM honestly too.

edit 2: my last two years, my sGPA and cGPA were at 3.5 or higher if that makes a difference...

@Goro what lower tier schools do I have a shot at? I called BCOM, and the person I spoke with said my 497 is not killer, but everything else would need to be solid...

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[lnguyen1412]

Honestly, I have a 504 on aamc scored too and when score come out to be 502, I was shocked.

LUCOM screened sub mcat scored so I don't think it is good. Try the new school, UIW

I suggest a retake if possible. It's still early.
Otherwise, I suggest apply early and broadly with strong PS EC.

 

[Faha]

Your only chance would be at some of the newer schools and a few others such as:
ARCOM (new school in Arkansas)
ACOM
BCOM
WCU-COM
UP-KYCOM
LMU-DCOM
WVSOM
LUCOM
VCOM (all 3 schools)
RVU-COM (new school in Utah)
NYIT (new school in Arkansas)
Incarnate Word (new school in Texas)
Your MCAT is approximately 23 on the old scale and some of these schools have a median of 24 to 26 for their students so you are a little below the median.

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Honestly, I have a 504 on aamc scored too and when score come out to be 502, I was shocked.

LUCOM screened sub mcat scored so I don't think it is good. Try the new school, UIW

I suggest a retake if possible. It's still early.
Otherwise, I suggest apply early and broadly with strong PS EC.

Thank you for the info--I am going to take a day or two and decide if I want to retake it. I spent 450 hrs studying over a 3 month period, but I know I underperformed but I am more worried about doing worse for whatever reason. I don't have test anxiety because I felt calm. I just dont know what happened with my CARS...

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Your only chance would be at some of the newer schools and a few others such as:
ARCOM (new school in Arkansas)
ACOM
BCOM
WCU-COM
UP-KYCOM
LMU-DCOM
WVSOM
LUCOM
VCOM (all 3 schools)
RVU-COM (new school in Utah)
NYIT (new school in Arkansas)
Incarnate Word (new school in Texas)
Your MCAT is approximately 23 on the old scale and some of these schools have a median of 24 to 26 for their students so you are a little below the median.

Thank you--I called BCOM and PCOM and both admissions officers said my score was approx to a 23-24, so if I applied earlier is it possible to get a II somewhere?

 

[lnguyen1412]

Thank you--I called BCOM and PCOM and both admissions officers said my score was approx to a 23-24, so if I applied earlier is it possible to get a II somewhere?

I spend over 6 months study for that test and still sucks on the damn cars..... I have a nice cars outside though.

I contact admission at WVSOM for you and he said that score is fine as long as others to boost it up overall. Apply early and broadly

 

[GCSDOC]

I am in a near identical situation....if you believe you can do better, which is my case, take time off, retake it, and open up more doors....rather than having a narrow chance. Find something to do in the mean time of another gap year if you truly believe you can do better.

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[Faha]

Thank you--I called BCOM and PCOM and both admissions officers said my score was approx to a 23-24, so if I applied earlier is it possible to get a II somewhere?

Yes, apply this month and submit all your secondaries before the end of July.

 

[Doctor_Strange]

I spend over 6 months study for that test and still sucks on the damn cars..... I have a nice cars outside though.

I contact admission at WVSOM for you and he said that score is fine as long as others to boost it up overall. Apply early and broadly

Wow thank you, that was very kind. I will also call and see if there is anything I can do to impress them with. The more I think about it, I know I can do better, but I am just anxious to get back into MCAT mode. After 450 hrs of 5x a week studying for 5 hrs, it is fairly intimidating to think about that life again...

 

[lnguyen1412]

Wow thank you, that was very kind. I will also call and see if there is anything I can do to impress them with. The more I think about it, I know I can do better, but I am just anxious to get back into MCAT mode. After 450 hrs of 5x a week studying for 5 hrs, it is fairly intimidating to think about that life again...

I am very disappointed and anxious about my retake too. I chose not to do it because I'm afraid I can't do better. I spent 6 months on it... With 5 hours everyday and practice like 32 books and 8 practice exams... I know how you feel man.

It's the feeling of what's went wrong that you don't even know. I got the feeling that I did well but when scored came, it was devastated.

I even think about Caribbean. But when Goro told me I have a shot at some DO schools, I decided to give this cycle a shot with some hope.

Just show the school you have the determination to succeed. I hope to see you somewhere this cycle.
Best of luck

 

[Doctor_Strange]

What are my chances of receiving the supplemental from LECOM-B? I am FL if that adds anything to it (unlikely I imagine)?

 

[Alienman52]

Hey,

So I got a 497 (123, 123, 125, 126) on the MCAT. Can't believe it since I got a 504 on the AAMC scored practice. But, I attended a top 10 liberal arts school in the South, and I really believe and have been told that my ECs, PS, and LORs are abvoe average quality. I know this won't necessarily carry me though.

I plan on sending in my app today with that MCAT score and over the next few days decided if I want to retake for a September 10th test date. I never scored below a 123 on the CARS so I am frankly anxious of taking it again. I know the advice will be to take it again, but I wanted to know if there were any schools I could apply to with my stats, especially the newer ones.

On a related note, how would it work if I do decide to retake my MCAT--do I still send in my app? Will schools place me on hold or could they send me IIs as well.

Sorry, I feel sort of lost at the moment. I for sure was expecting a 501 or 502....

Thanks for any constructive advice and guidance.

edit: tl,dr what low tier schools do I have a shot at? BCOM, ACOM? I would even go to LUCOM honestly too.

edit 2: my last two years, my sGPA and cGPA were at 3.5 or higher if that makes a difference...

@Goro what lower tier schools do I have a shot at? I called BCOM, and the person I spoke with said my 497 is not killer, but everything else would need to be solid...

You have a pretty solid cGPA and sGPA. In all reality, I would take what people on sdn say with a grain of salt. Most of them are the highest achievers. 497 is not a good score, and won't help you, but if your EC's are super solid, PS is super solid, (like I said already, that GPA is good) and if you have a solid DO rec letter, I think you could receive a few interviews and a possible acceptance if you apply early, and broadly. You got this man, don't let one exam tell you that you can't be a physician.

In fact, check this out:
http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/2015_mat.pdf?sfvrsn=8

That's the data for the 2015 DO matriculants.
Average matriculant GPA was c3.53 and s3.43, and 27.3 MCAT (503 on new scale)
The important thing to look at with these stats are the STANDARD DEVIATIONS. The cGPA SD is .29, and the sGPA SD is .41!!! Again, you're rocking that solid, within SD GPA.
MCAT SD was 3.11!!! People with MCAT's around 24.22 do occasionally get in (one standard deviation away from mean of 27.33) A 497 is one percentile point below a 24, so you're not too far from the lower end of the standard deviation.

What I'm trying to say is that your chances aren't nill. Good luck to you m8.

 

[Doctor_Strange]

You have a pretty solid cGPA and sGPA. In all reality, I would take what people on sdn say with a grain of salt. Most of them are the highest achievers. 497 is not a good score, and won't help you, but if your EC's are super solid, PS is super solid, (like I said already, that GPA is good) and if you have a solid DO rec letter, I think you could receive a few interviews and a possible acceptance if you apply early, and broadly. You got this man, don't let one exam tell you that you can't be a physician.

In fact, check this out:
http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/data-and-trends/2015_mat.pdf?sfvrsn=8

That's the data for the 2015 DO matriculants.
Average matriculant GPA was c3.53 and s3.43, and 27.3 MCAT (503 on new scale)
The important thing to look at with these stats are the STANDARD DEVIATIONS. The cGPA SD is .29, and the sGPA SD is .41!!! Again, you're rocking that solid, within SD GPA.
MCAT SD was 3.11!!! People with MCAT's around 24.22 do occasionally get in (one standard deviation away from mean of 27.33) A 497 is one percentile point below a 24, so you're not too far from the lower end of the standard deviation.

What I'm trying to say is that your chances aren't nill. Good luck to you m8.

Thanks for the info and kind words--judging from the data, I have around a 20% chance for an acceptance somewhere, likely the newer schools. I saw the VCOM's avg MCAT is a 25-26 and perhaps that also has a 3.0 SD so it could also be a likely place to get some love, especially since my GPA in the last two years was a 3.6.

I am going to reassess after some time--a retake may be in order, although some have reached out to me to say that a 497 at the newer schools could lead to an interview...

 

[Alienman52]

Thanks for the info and kind words--judging from the data, I have around a 20% chance for an acceptance somewhere, likely the newer schools. I saw the VCOM's avg MCAT is a 25-26 and perhaps that also has a 3.0 SD so it could also be a likely place to get some love, especially since my GPA in the last two years was a 3.6.

I am going to reassess after some time--a retake may be in order, although some have reached out to me to say that a 497 at the newer schools could lead to an interview...

Where did you find the 20%? That's actually not bad at all. I'm looking but cant find percentile chance of acceptance...

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Where did you find the 20%? That's actually not bad at all. I'm looking but cant find percentile chance of acceptance...

It says 17% of applicants matriculate who have MCATs of 20 to 24, so I just sort of interpreted as such..

 

[Alienman52]

It says 17% of applicants matriculate who have MCATs of 20 to 24, so I just sort of interpreted as such..

I see. Update us with what you decide to do.

 

[matts42012]

I see. Update us with what you decide to do.

The SD at VCOM is 4 so a 21-29 is their SD. I am in the same boat. I have my DPT and havnt taken these courses in 3+ years. I wanted to get into the early decision track, which you have to have everything in by July 1st. So I sat for the MCAT after only 3 weeks of studying. Yes, my cGPA 3.78 & sGPA is 3.64 at VCOM (last 120) but my MCAT might totally screw me.

 

[Alienman52]

The SD at VCOM is 4 so a 21-29 is their SD. I am in the same boat. I have my DPT and havnt taken these courses in 3+ years. I wanted to get into the early decision track, which you have to have everything in by July 1st. So I sat for the MCAT after only 3 weeks of studying. Yes, my cGPA 3.78 & sGPA is 3.64 at VCOM (last 120) but my MCAT might totally screw me.

I see, so your MCAT is the same as Dr. Strange's? With a GPA that should be competitive for MD, I think that can outweigh a low MCAT score.

 

[matts42012]

I see, so your MCAT is the same as Dr. Strange's? With a GPA that should be competitive for MD, I think that can outweigh a low MCAT score.

No, I will learn my MCAT on the 14th. I am nervous I will totally bomb the MCAT and that will kill me. Yes I have the great GPA's and have graduated with my DPT but its pretty nerve racking. I havnt taken any class that was tested on the MCAT in 3+ years nor have I taken Organic Chem. I have that this fall in night class.

 

[Doctor_Strange]

The SD at VCOM is 4 so a 21-29 is their SD. I am in the same boat. I have my DPT and havnt taken these courses in 3+ years. I wanted to get into the early decision track, which you have to have everything in by July 1st. So I sat for the MCAT after only 3 weeks of studying. Yes, my cGPA 3.78 & sGPA is 3.64 at VCOM (last 120) but my MCAT might totally screw me.

Damn, you already have a DPT so your non-trad status will stand out. My cGPA and sGPA are around 3.5 to 3.55 in my last 120 hours as well.

That is good to know about the VCOM SD, could you provide the link to that as I am sure there is other relevant info. The thing is, 21 to 29 is on the old scale--I have no idea what that would mean for the new MCAT (I hope the same).

Also, judging from VCOMs site they appear to place much more emphasis on GPA than MCAT at least compared to the other admissions web pages I have read for other DO schools. I hope that plays to us folks with good GPAs but not stellar MCATs.

 

[Alienman52]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...centile-comparison-conversion-tables.1143689/

For your reference, MCAT conversions by percentile. Courtesy of efle.

 

[matts42012]

Damn, you already have a DPT so your non-trad status will stand out. My cGPA and sGPA are around 3.5 to 3.55 in my last 120 hours as well.

That is good to know about the VCOM SD, could you provide the link to that as I am sure there is other relevant info. The thing is, 21 to 29 is on the old scale--I have no idea what that would mean for the new MCAT (I hope the same).

Also, judging from VCOMs site they appear to place much more emphasis on GPA than MCAT at least compared to the other admissions web pages I have read for other DO schools. I hope that plays to us folks with good GPAs but not stellar MCATs.

Yeah for sure. http://www.vcom.edu/admissions/requirements.html Also, look at the "outcomes report" under the prospective student tab. That will help alot. So I am new to this, being a non traditional student helps?

 

[Doctor_Strange]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...centile-comparison-conversion-tables.1143689/

For your reference, MCAT conversions by percentile. Courtesy of efle.

So I guess I have a 23.5 lol. Damn, it seems searching the forms a 24 or 25 makes a world of a difference from a 23. If I retake and even get a 499 my chances would still increase by alot (relatively speaking). Still gonna shot for a 502.

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Yeah for sure. http://www.vcom.edu/admissions/requirements.html Also, look at the "outcomes report" under the prospective student tab. That will help alot. So I am new to this, being a non traditional student helps?

Definitely makes your PS and ECs stand out compared to a recent college grad IMHO. A lot of DOs are non-trads these days.

 

[matts42012]

What is your PS and EC's?

 

[Faha]

It says 17% of applicants matriculate who have MCATs of 20 to 24, so I just sort of interpreted as such..

Stats from AACOMAS for the class that matriculated in 2013 show that of the 3,954 applicants who applied with a MCAT in the 20 to 24 range that 1,270 matriculated at a DO school. That is almost 1/3 and for those who were at the higher end of that range (23 or 24) the acceptance rate would have been higher. There will be an extra 700 first year DO matriculants in 2017 compared to 2013 (mainly due to 5 new schools opening) so that number will go up.

 

[Doctor_Strange]

What is your PS and EC's?

Well, my PS is three pronged: first about saving my friend from suicide when I was a RA in college, then talking about an international health outreach trip where I actually administered vaccinations, and then I finished by talking about a DO I shadowed who explained osteopathic medicine through the "power of touch". I think may not flow between the three as smoothly as I want, but I think it works.

I listed about 14 ECs, but the top ones are: 1 publication on a clinical paper, worked two jobs as a RA and IT Help desk (1500 hrs between the two), student member on an IRB board that reviewed and approved student human research, 120 hrs of shadowing including two DOs, international health outreach trip, and volunteered at a my local free clinic. My ECs may not be stellar, but they are definitely not subpar. However, it is my LORs that are absolutely stellar. So hopefully it will work out!

 

[lnguyen1412]

Well, my PS is three pronged: first about saving my friend from suicide when I was a RA in college, then talking about an international health outreach trip where I actually administered vaccinations, and then I finished by talking about a DO I shadowed who explained osteopathic medicine through the "power of touch". I think may not flow between the three as smoothly as I want, but I think it works.

I listed about 14 ECs, but the top ones are: 1 publication on a clinical paper, worked two jobs as a RA and IT Help desk (1500 hrs between the two), student member on an IRB board that reviewed and approved student human research, 120 hrs of shadowing including two DOs, international health outreach trip, and volunteered at a my local free clinic. My ECs may not be stellar, but they are definitely not subpar. However, it is my LORs that are absolutely stellar. So hopefully it will work out!

I believe your EC can save you a bunch.
Have faith and let roll

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Update: I had my interview at LECOM-SH last Friday (I decided to apply to all LECOMs) it went well, but the other applicants were very impressive. I received an II to BCOM yesterday as well.

I am also studying for a retake for Sept. 10th, but because of a family crisis I have been sidetracked and only been able to really study 25 hours over the last month. If a week before test day my AAMC Scored is not at or above a 500, I will still take the exam, but will likely void it. Even if I get one point higher I think that should help my cause (right lol?)

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Update 2:

Received an acceptance to BCOM earlier today. Quite surreal.

I think--and I am trying to be as objective as possible--my LORs must be stellar and quite possibly out of this world. I say this because my writers are people who were my mentors. 4 of the 5 I asked are actually friends with my on social media. These were relationships that will continue into medical school honestly. So, I think while I never saw what they wrote, they likely could speak about me in much more detail than could be seen in say a LOR from a university professor with 20 lab students and lecture to over 200 students. I went to a tiny college and felt that grade deflation (i.e. getting a B+ in a class is a victory for many students) was rampant, but I felt that the fact that the professors I met actually knew me was something I valued more than the GPA. Anyways, I have had so many PMs about this post I felt I needed to say this.

Maybe I'll get some more IIs as I guess the interview season is really about to kick into high gear, but BCOM is essentially the perfect spot for me.

 

[Alienman52]

Update 2:

Received an acceptance to BCOM earlier today. Quite surreal.

I think--and I am trying to be as objective as possible--my LORs must be stellar and quite possibly out of this world. I say this because my writers are people who were my mentors. 4 of the 5 I asked are actually friends with my on social media. These were relationships that will continue into medical school honestly. So, I think while I never saw what they wrote, they likely could speak about me in much more detail than could be seen in say a LOR from a university professor with 20 lab students and lecture to over 200 students. I went to a tiny college and felt that grade deflation (i.e. getting a B+ in a class is a victory for many students) was rampant, but I felt that the fact that the professors I met actually knew me was something I valued more than the GPA. Anyways, I have had so many PMs about this post I felt I needed to say this.

Maybe I'll get some more IIs as I guess the interview season is really about to kick into high gear, but BCOM is essentially the perfect spot for me.

Aaayyyyyy!!!! Congratulations DOCTOR!


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[Doctor_Strange]

Congrats! Proof that you have to apply [early] to really find out and that stats aren't everything. So happy for you!!

FTFY

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Update 3: accepted to LECOM-SH over the weekend. Quit surreal. I have enough awareness to appreciate and recognize how fortunate I am to be accepted to LECOM with a MCAT that is below average. I believe my interview must have been viewed very favorable and that my LORs are also quite strong.

I was encouraged by a respected physician today to apply to NOVA and he said he would call in and see if he could get me past their supposed computer screens. Objectively, I think aside from my MCAT (which is obviously such a huge factor) I think I may have an outside shot at an II. My DO LOR is also a recent alum. Shot in the dark maybe, but who would have thought I would have come this far, right lol?

 

[Goro]

Update 3: accepted to LECOM-SH over the weekend. Quit surreal. I have enough awareness to appreciate and recognize how fortunate I am to be accepted to LECOM with a MCAT that is below average. I believe my interview must have been viewed very favorable and that my LORs are also quite strong.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

Lol that's a little bit excessive goro


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[ATPsynthase123]

Update 3: accepted to LECOM-SH over the weekend. Quit surreal. I have enough awareness to appreciate and recognize how fortunate I am to be accepted to LECOM with a MCAT that is below average. I believe my interview must have been viewed very favorable and that my LORs are also quite strong.

I was encouraged by a respected physician today to apply to NOVA and he said he would call in and see if he could get me past their supposed computer screens. Objectively, I think aside from my MCAT (which is obviously such a huge factor) I think I may have an outside shot at an II. My DO LOR is also a recent alum. Shot in the dark maybe, but who would have thought I would have come this far, right lol?

Congrats man! Any idea where you will go yet?


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[Doctor_Strange]

Congrats man! Any idea where you will go yet?


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Well, despite paying the 3k dollar deposit at BCOM, LECOM-SH was a reach school for me, so I will be attending this one at the moment. I am waiting to hear back from PCOM-GA and NOVA, but not holding out hope. Med school admissions is a truly odd experience lol.

 

[ATPsynthase123]

Well, despite paying the 3k dollar deposit at BCOM, LECOM-SH was a reach school for me, so I will be attending this one at the moment. I am waiting to hear back from PCOM-GA and NOVA, but not holding out hope. Med school admissions is a truly odd experience lol.

If your happy with LECOM, then why keep interviewing? Lol


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[Doctor_Strange]

If your happy with LECOM, then why keep interviewing? Lol


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Well, PCOM-GA and NOVA are closer to home, but otherwise everywhere else I applied to I likely won't attend their interviews. I never really was prepared by the expenses of applying, traveling, etc. it is kinda ridiculous.

I should also note for anyone reading that I was also rejected by LECOM-B (expected) and UIWSOM (unexpected) today.