Challenges African American Students Face at Predominantly White Institutions

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http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/SAHE/JOURNAL2/2001/Challenges.htm

by Mercedes A. Benton


In the twenty-first century, African American (black) students will continue to enroll in predominantly white institutions (PWIs) at greater rates than black students enrolling at historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs); yet, if this current trend continues, over half of black students at PWIs will fail to persist and graduate (Allen, 1992). Several factors can facilitate or frustrate African American students who wish to complete a degree at a PWI. PWIs can play a vital role in contributing to the success of their students. HBCUs have found a formula for success in graduating large numbers of black students and PWIs may find that utilizing the HBCU model will lead to significant increases in retention and graduation rates of African American students and reduce the challenges these students face.

The desegregation of public schools with the landmark Brown v. the Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas (1954) decision granted African Americans access to white institutions of higher education. The goal of integration appeared to bestow equal opportunity to blacks to further their education. Moreover, the approaching implementation of desegregation seemed to suggest that African Americans would begin to matriculate speedily and graduate from PWIs at the same or greater rate that they had achieved at HBCUs (Arminio, Carter, Jones, Kruger, Lucas, Washington, Young & Scott, 2000). Prior to 1954, HBCUs housed the majority of black students; by 1973, three-fourths of black students attended PWIs. Despite the increased enrollment of African Americans at PWIs, HBCUs still graduate a disproportionate number of black students in comparison to their historically white counterparts (Allen, 1992; Easley, 1993). What inhibits black college students from fulfilling the goal of integration and what policies and philosophies of PWIs have kept the accessibility of a college degree to a bare minimum for black students?
Arguments have surfaced regarding the inequity in higher education for African American students. In general, black students seem academically, culturally, and economically incompatible with the PWI model of education (Hunt, Schmidt, Hunt, Boyd, & Magoon, 1994). The PWI model caters to individuals who academically meet white-created standards, such as high grade point averages and standardized test scores (Delgado, 1998; Easley, 1993; Sedlacek, 1999; Suen, 1983), who have culturally assimilated into mainstream society, and who possess the financial resources to pay for the rising cost of education. In effect, any student who does not identify with the tenets of the dominant paradigm in the United States can potentially struggle at PWIs. To cope with this system, some African American students have developed unique mechanisms to increase their chances of persistence (Kimbrough, Molock, & Walton, 1996), while many others who fail to establish those tools of persistence have fallen short in overcoming the challenges they face at PWIs. Some challenges that many blacks encounter at PWIs are hostile campuses, culturally ignorant students and staff, limited and decreasing economic assistance, lack of black faculty, and cultural alienation and isolation (Easley, 1993; Hawkins, 1989; Nagasawa & Wong, 1999; Taylor, 1989). By classifying and understanding the issues faced by African Americans at PWIs, the United States system of higher education can assist African American students to graduate and participate equally in education today.

THE CHALLENGES

When legally mandated to open their doors, PWIs admitted cultural outsiders with relatively little thought given or action taken to accommodate the ‘stranger' (Saddlemire, 1996; Taylor, 1989). With no real change in the PWI model as more blacks were admitted into white institutions, tension between cultures escalated (Taylor, 1989). The unchanging nature of most PWIs conveyed to some that white institutions were superior and students attempting to maneuver through them must conform to the institutional standards rather than evolving standards more appropriate for the needs of a diversifying student body (Taylor, 1989). According to Saddlemire (1996), African American students continue to perceive PWIs as hostile, unsupportive, and unwelcoming. One way that hostility manifests itself at white institutions is through peer culture. Fellow students' negative attitudes about the presence of blacks produces an unfriendly environment for blacks to reside and learn (Saddlemire, 1996).

Faculty and staff aid in constructing an adverse atmosphere for African American students (Kobrak, 1992; Saddlemire, 1996). Some faculty and other front-line college employees maintain elitist attitudes toward education; professors and other staff view their role as research and academically-oriented rather than as a retention agent or facilitator (Kobrak, 1992). The lack of African American faculty and staff also contributes to the problems that African American students face at PWIs (Allen, 1992). Another significant factor in formulating a stressful college climate for African American students is individual and institutional racism. What black students experience in the classroom with instructors serves as a catalyst for racist behavior by students and other faculty (Kobrak, 1992).

At PWIs, African American students confront ignorance about black culture (Allen, 1992). The curricula, teaching styles, student services, and the campuses in general are tailored to white students (Taylor, 1989). For example, when black students read history books or are taught math, the curriculum is usually derived from a monocultural perspective. Most of the curriculum reflects the dominant culture's perspective and generally excludes nonwhites' cultures and perspectives (Taylor, 1989). Moreover, even when the minority voice is conveyed in the classroom, it is piecemealed into the learning process as a "side dish" to the white American "entrée" (hooks, 1992). Consequently, when non-white students embark on the educational process at PWIs, they are met with indifference because their perspective is not incorporated into the fabric of the university (Easley, 1993).

Ignorance not only plagues PWIs' administrations and staff, but also incubates within majority students. Saddlemire (1996) conducted a qualitative study of white students' attitudes about African Americans. His findings indicated white freshmen had little or no contact with African Americans, yet they harbored negative assumptions about blacks and black culture. These students felt that black students intentionally secluded themselves from whites. Several indicated they rarely interacted with African Americans on their college campus. However, when these students did have positive interactions with black students, it was always stated as an exception. The exceptions that were mentioned were African Americans who culturally identified as white (Saddlemire, 1996). Current literature about white student attitudes regarding African American students is scarce. Although many researchers assume that majority students harbor negative feelings toward black students, the literature is actually inconclusive (Saddlemire, 1996). Although Saddlemire's results are not generalizable, they can help people realize the kinds of attitudes white students have towards blacks.

Understanding the frame of reference that many black students come from may shed light on their current situation in higher education. In comparison to white students, African American students have parents that generally live in urban areas, acquire fewer educational degrees, labor in lower status jobs, make less money, and divorce more often (Allen, 1992; Leslie & Brinkman, 1988). Furthermore, black students at PWIs have higher attrition rates, poorer academic performance, and are less likely to pursue graduate degrees than white students (Allen, 1992).

A key component in comprehending African American culture is understanding how blacks generally fashion their cultural values and beliefs. Often, African Americans who attend PWIs are accused of self-segregating (Stewart, Russell, & Wright, 1997). However, what is seen as separation can be interpreted as a coping mechanism. African Americans tend to construct their social values more from a family or group orientation (Kimbrough, R. M., Molock, S. D., & Walton, K., 1996; Thompson & Fretz, 1991) than other ethnic groups. Hence, when black students enter a PWI which possesses an invalidating and hostile environment, some blacks resort to their social values and seek out other black students to create allies amidst opposition (Fleming, 1984). Thus, white students and staff assist in creating an atmosphere where feelings of alienation, marginalization, and isolation are common among blacks who then find it necessary to establish their own social networks (Allen, 1992; Nagasawa & Wong, 1999; Willie & McCord, 1972). These social outlets include black student unions, historically black fraternities and sororities, and other such organizations (Culbert, 1988; Kimbrough et al., 1996). The genesis of many of these black organizations stemmed from exclusion from the larger campus community (Williams, 1994).

An additional facet of black life at PWIs entails the duality of black students' existence. Dubois (1965) pointed out that African Americans must not only look at society through their own eyes, but also they must look at it through the majority culture's eyes in order to survive in the majority-dominated society. Black college students must be able to balance both cultural worlds (Kimbrough, R. M., Molock, S. D., & Walton, K., 1996; Thompson & Fretz, 1991). However, some students would be labeled 'black' in societal terms, but do not identify easily with black culture. These students are not the individuals that the research studies. The problem arises when black students who wish to retain their cultural identity struggle to operate successfully in a predominantly different culture without being marginalized.

PAST SUCCESS: LOOKING AT THE HBCU MODEL

Poor campus climate, attitudes of indifference, ignorance, and other issues all emerge as challenges that African Americans deal with at PWIs. However, PWIs have been touted and assumed to be the best places for black student development (Allen, 1992; Fleming, 1984). A negative stigma clouds the success of HBCUs (Lang, 1994). In terms of prestige and values in this society, degrees from PWIs seem to carry more clout than degrees from HBCUs (Lang, 1994). Despite this notion, blacks who have successfully completed degrees from black colleges have gone on to lead successful lives. The continued dominance of HBCUs in graduating proportionately more black students is significant (Lang, 1994). The model that HBCUs utilize appears to be a successful formula for black student graduation that PWIs could learn from and adapt (Robinson, 1990).

In the HBCU model, colleges attempt to educate and graduate all students who are admitted. Financial disadvantage, low SAT or ACT scores, or mediocre high school grade point averages do not always hinder HBCUs from admitting students (Robinson, 1990). The HBCU philosophy asserts that they take students where they are and help them get to where they need to be. On the other hand, PWIs generally look for just "the best and the brightest" and weed out students that cannot meet the standards. Black students that attend HBCUs have significant identity development advantages over their counterparts at PWIs (Lang, 1994). Some of these benefits are that African American students at HBCUs are more psychologically adjusted, perform better academically, and have a better sense of their cultural identity (Allen 1992).

CONCLUSION: ACTION PLAN FOR PWI'S

There are various factors that affect any student's ability to successfully complete a college degree. In terms of African American students attending PWIs, unique challenges have continued to stifle the numbers of black graduates at PWIs. These challenges range from hostile environments to societal issues. Given the HBCU model, concrete strategies can be used to eradicate some of the obstacles that blacks encounter at PWIs.

One of the major challenges for African American students is the campus environment. Human development models suggest that humans develop best in surroundings where they are valued, feel safe and accepted, and have social networks (Allen, 1992). Currently, PWIs fail to provide black students with an environment that values them on a consistent basis. Recruitment of black students to some PWIs is a purely cosmetic endeavor (Hawkins, 1989). Some African American students believe they are getting a cruise boat with all the fixings because PWIs imply they have many black students or substantial services for students of color. However, when black students step foot on predominantly white campuses, they get a tiny tugboat, like black student services being located in an obscure place and very few black students in attendance. Because PWIs possess the ability to empower individuals through education, the people they employ must recognize they have the power to facilitate or frustrate student success. With that in mind, PWIs need to consciously reevaluate the campus environment in which students learn and grow. For PWIs to realistically provide education and service to the entire student population, a commitment to diversity must come from the highest administrator (D'Augelli & Hershberger, 1993). Predominantly white institutions should judge the worth of college as more than an academic function. Teacher-student relations can promote a healthier climate; African American students need those relationships because they can ultimately determine a student's academic success (Kobrak, 1992). Moreover, colleges need to take deliberate steps to understand why African American students are not succeeding and devise plans to encourage success.
The lack of success of African American college students at PWIs points to a larger societal issue. To totally understand the predicament of African American students at PWIs, there must be comprehension of the plight of blacks in the United States (Allen, 1992). Black students undoubtedly face challenges at PWIs. There are concrete solutions to help ease the problem. Hiring black faculty and staff (Karpinski, 1996), providing support services that target black students, implementing cultural and social services, and devising comprehensive retention plans all will be steps that can facilitate black student achievement at PWIs (Arminio et al, 2000).

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I am going to re-post a 2002 article from The Washington Post about University of Maryland Baltimore County. The president of this university developed a program that has been quite successful in producing minority Ph.Ds. There is also a fairly recent New York Times article about the same program. Makes interesting reading because both these articles and the one posted by the OP of this thread have some common themes that is "setting high standards, high expectations and a lot of social support". The faculty at HBCUs have always set high standards, high expectations and provided social support for black students which is key to success.

Never Let Them See You Sleep
Secrets of success from a Maryland university that has become one of the nation's leading incubators of African American scientists

Sunday, April 7, 2002; Page W14
As president of the University of Maryland Baltimore County since 1992, Freeman A. Hrabowski III has built a national reputation for promoting high achievement among African American students, through high standards, high expectations and a lot of social support.

Few colleges can boast of UMBC's success in launching African American scientists into the higher reaches of academia. In the last 10 years, UMBC, where African Americans make up about 16 percent of the 9,100 undergraduates, has become one of the nation's top producers of students with biochemistry degrees, and the top producer of African American students with biochemistry degrees. Some 200 African American UMBC graduates are enrolled in medical school or doctoral programs in mathematics or sciences at universities including Harvard, Yale, Stanford and MIT. "We view UMBC as the number one source for bringing minorities into PhD programs here," says Kenneth Kreuzer, director of Duke University's cellular and molecular biology graduate program.

Key to its success is the Meyerhoff Scholarship Program, which Hrabowski began in 1988 with a handful of students and a grant from Baltimore philanthropists Robert and Jane Meyerhoff. The idea was to get more African Americans into the field of science, by offering them not only full undergraduate scholarships to UMBC but abundant encouragement as well. In 1995, to stave off charges of discrimination, the program was opened to all students "interested in the advancement of minorities in the sciences and related fields." Although that means most of the students are still African American or Latino, students of all backgrounds are eligible. It isn't an easy program to get into -- about 100 students will be accepted next year from about 900 applicants. Although UMBC recruits students from around the country and the world, 80 percent of the Meyerhoff scholars are from Maryland.

Hrabowski discussed the program and UMBC's philosophy in a recent interview with education writer Karin Chenoweth.
What is necessary to close the achievement gap between white and Asian students on the one hand and African American and Latino students on the other?

Children need teachers and others who believe that they can excel, who will push them as much as possible and care about them deeply at the same time. Some people suggest I'm too hard on the Meyerhoff scholars, that we expect too much. I say, there's no such thing as working too hard. Hard work and self-discipline, and enthusiasm for learning and a passion for science, are all a part of what we do.

Is diversity important to that effort?
From the earliest of times, we have had people from different ethnic groups from all over the world coming [to this country], and it has been the synergy that has developed from all of these groups that has led to who we are today.

I tell the story of a young woman from Baltimore Polytechnic Institute. Here you have a student -- a black woman -- who comes out of the inner city who has all A's with a 1360 SAT. That woman is just as smart as kids from private schools with 1500 SAT scores, [but] she hasn't had their advantages.
She said she wanted to change her roommate because she said the woman looked at her strangely. The roommate was from another country. My first response was, "Did it ever occur to you that maybe you look at her strangely from her perspective?" She laughed, and I said, "Do me a favor. Stay one semester." She stayed.

[During] a focus group of freshmen to see how the experience had gone after one semester, this young woman gets up and says, "I want to thank Dr. Hrabowski for asking me to stay one semester. I didn't want to do it, but I did it. I learned several things. Number one, I never saw my roommate sleep. Every night when I'd go to bed, she'd still be at her desk studying. When I'd wake up the next morning, she was already at her desk studying.
I didn't know a human being could work that hard. That was the first lesson.
"Number two, I finally started getting upset, so I decided I'd stay up. I'd get sleepy but I would just push myself. And sometimes I'd get up and she was in bed and I'd jump in my desk and start working just so she could see me studying. And you know what? My grades got better."
Some people say, "If we let nature take its course, kids with potential will rise to the top and we'll have enough scientists.

Why work to make sure we have African American scientists or scientists who grew up poor or any other subcategory of scientists?"

Unless we have some interventions in settings where you have large numbers of poor people, poor children will not rise to the top. Unless we give them the support to get the values they need and the skills they need, they will not rise. I'm talking about values like hard work, respect for authority and willingness to listen to teachers. Many parents don't know how important these things are.

I see children all the time who try to hide their ability to grasp concepts quickly, because they don't want to be considered a geek or a nerd. They'll purposely be more laid-back and not show you how quickly they can understand a math problem.

Where does that come from?
Popular culture. The people who are more successful are those whose parents talked to them about what they heard on the street and saw on television. Poor children are more likely to not get the help to put what they see on TV in perspective. Parents can't shelter their children completely, but they can talk about what the words and images mean.

What are the elements that have gone into building the Meyerhoff program as a successful program? How could it be replicated elsewhere?

Number one, find the smartest scientists and people from the humanities to work with students. The reason we do so well with African American students is because we connect faculty with students.

Two, make sure the program is at the core of the university. One of the problems of minority programs on most predominantly white campuses is that the programs are not at the core of the colleges. They are run by good people, but the faculty is not engaged.

Three, we think about how we teach first-year students. There's a major transition between high school work and college work. We have lots of students with 4.0 or even 5.0 grade point averages from high school. They've taken AP classes. But AP calculus and AP chemistry are cookbook classes. They give some foundation, but students [still] need support to make the leap to doing real science.

Four, working in groups. On many other campuses, if you go around, Asian American students are talking about their work, and the black and white students are talking about the party the night before. We strongly encourage students to work together in study teams.

Five, mentors. Students are paired with mentors who watch to make sure they take the courses they need to take and do the work they need to do. And I ask students to watch out for other students. If a student sees another student sitting watching television, I ask that student to suggest that they study together. Don't just walk on by.

Six, we regularly discuss with students how they are doing and analyze failures. It is a defining moment when a student didn't do well and talks about "what I don't know, why didn't I do well, and what I need to do." We give students many examples of students who failed and who learned from that failure. And we tell them that the winner is not the person who never fails -- everybody fails -- but the person who comes back from failure with a sense of resilience. © 2002 The Washington Post Company
 
An interesting, and brilliantly written piece of literature! I am simply speaking from personal experience, but I believe that the author hit many, if not all of the major points that can sometimes lead a student to being frustrated within their academic institution. Thank you very much for posting that. :)
 
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most of the references are 15+ years old...wtf
 
*enviromed21 ties hair into pony tail and puts on flame ******ant suit*

Okay, I think I'm ready :laugh:. JK.

Hopefully everyone will discuss the thread in a civil manner should they choose to contribute.
 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etRYWLvdApM[/YOUTUBE]
 
Hopefully everyone will discuss the thread in a civil manner should they choose to contribute.
I'm not really sure what the article is doing in pre-allo. The article is about undergraduate education, not medical schools.
 
Just go to Howard or Morehouse and you'll be fine.
 
I honestly did not sit down and read the entire article carefully, but from what I skimmed, I don't think that it should be dismissed.

Often, on my undergraduate campus, the issue of "self segregation" gets brought up in the context of cultural organizations. It has been alleged that entities such as the Afro-American Cultural Center are counterproductive and encourage a phenomenon of cultural clumping. However, as the article from the OP points out: "Human development models suggest that humans develop best in surroundings where they are valued, feel safe and accepted, and have social networks." On a majority white campus such as my own, there are often examples of racial tension that are glossed over or ignored under the impression that societal progress has made careful scrutiny of such issues obselete. For example, how does a student of color feel when s/he is asked for identification at certain locations while individuals from other races are not? Also, what are the boundaries of deceny and group-based humor (race-based, ethnicity-based, etc.) in campus publications? How does race-based humor impact the social dynamic of an institution? These are important issues to consider, and I would argue that they greatly impact how safe and welcome students from any minority population feel on a campus. This, in turn, impacts how well individuals are able to succeed.
 
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Well, if hanging out at a predominantly white school bothers you, why not?

Personally I have been always in predominantly white schools, but do you really think that is the answer for the questions/problems raised in this post?
 
That article seemed kind of old. Was it brought up to advocate some kind of change?
Isn't a PWI every school that ISN'T Howard, Morehouse and one other school I can't remember? Anyway, it can be really rough on minorities because everything has been built around White culture. Unfortunately, it's so easy for the majority to dismiss because it doesn't really impact them and they don't have to consider the minority pov. So what if the three minority kids are struggling? They just can't handle the rigors of a real education right? It has nothing to do with the fact that they've been thrust into a completely different, often hostile culture, where everything urban is associated with peasantry.
If they don't like it, let 'em go to Howard!
 
For example, when black students read history books or are taught math, the curriculum is usually derived from a monocultural perspective.

Maybe I'm being ignorant here... but... WTF? There is a cultural perspective in teaching calculus? Solving integrals can be culturally biased?

Are black people that "different" from everyone else that they have the hardest time to "assimilate" compared to other cultures???
 
Isn't a PWI every school that ISN'T Howard, Morehouse and one other school I can't remember?

There are more than 3 historically black colleges and universities in the country. There are, in fact, more than 100.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historically_Black_Colleges_and_Universities

But that's just a minor point.

Anyway, this is an interesting topic. There was a good book published a few years ago about a student from the inner city at Brown University.
http://www.amazon.com/Hope-Unseen-American-Odyssey-League/dp/0767901266

The fact is for most of their history and until fairly recently America's elite schools have been, well, for the elite. Very homogenous, wealthy, and no, not particularly welcoming towards outsiders with different experiences, inner city or otherwise. It's only changed through people of all kinds of backgrounds chasing their dream, working through hardships, and succeeding at these schools and afterwards. Shame on anyone who suggests that just because it's tough they should "stick to howard."

Don't think this kind of thing is unique to black kids or anyone else. These schools have a culture all their own. Lots of white kids who aren't from the typical ivy league crowd also get to these schools and feel severe culture shock. In my opinion it would take quite an elitist snob to summarily suggest that all these students should just have just stuck with their local state school, and "they'd be fine."
 
Maybe I'm being ignorant here... but... WTF? There is a cultural perspective in teaching calculus? Solving integrals can be culturally biased?

Are black people that "different" from everyone else that they have the hardest time to "assimilate" compared to other cultures???

if you had to basic math story problems based on cricket match scenarios, you'd probably get your ass handed to you by your counterparts from Trinidad. No replace that with golf or tennis.
 
I like the abbreviations/short forms used in the ariticle:

predominantly white institutions = PWIs
historically black colleges and universities = HBCUs

however,

African American = black
 
I didn't read the OP's writing but I can smell flame war coming.
 
There are more than 3 historically black colleges and universities in the country. There are, in fact, more than 100.

He was referring to medical schools- Morehouse, Howard and Meharry.
 
I like the abbreviations/short forms used in the ariticle:

predominantly white institutions = PWIs
historically black colleges and universities = HBCUs

however,

African American = black

Are you saying that you're put off by that? I'd think it's probably a good move unless they want to alienate a lot of the Black West Indian-Americans, Latinos etc who don't necessarily appreciate the term African American, but still encounter these issues.

Ps. The topic isn't really THAT combustible is it? Will this really become a flame war?
 
Are you saying that you're put off by that? I'd think it's probably a good move unless they want to alienate a lot of the Black West Indian-Americans, Latinos etc who don't necessarily appreciate the term African American, but still encounter these issues.

Ps. The topic isn't really THAT combustible is it? Will this really become a flame war?

flame war...hmm

so white = white, brown = brown, black = black

Am still trying to get the designations down
 
flame war...hmm

so white = white, brown = brown, black = black

Am still trying to get the designations down

Gotta be down with the brown, baby. Your definitions sound good. Let's roll with it.

Well, if hanging out at a predominantly white school bothers you, why not?
THis doesn't seem very practical. Especially for say, someone who's neither White nor Black.
 
I am THE brown and I have got no THE frown LOL
 
Did anyone actually read the rediculously long original post? :eek:
 
flame war...hmm

so white = white, brown = brown, black = black

Am still trying to get the designations down
I take offense at being called "white"!
 
if you had to basic math story problems based on cricket match scenarios, you'd probably get your ass handed to you by your counterparts from Trinidad. No replace that with golf or tennis.

yes I forgot how "white" trains and cars travelling at different speeds toward each other are :rolleyes: I can see "eurocentric" history, english, etc... but math? give me a break...
 
by Mercedes A. Benton


In the twenty-first century, African American (black) students will continue to enroll in predominantly white institutions (PWIs) at greater rates than black students enrolling at historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs); yet, if this current trend continues, over half of black students at PWIs will fail to persist and graduate (Allen, 1992). Several factors can facilitate or frustrate African American students who wish to complete a degree at a PWI. PWIs can play a vital role in contributing to the success of their students. HBCUs have found a formula for success in graduating large numbers of black students and PWIs may find that utilizing the HBCU model will lead to significant increases in retention and graduation rates of African American students and reduce the challenges these students face.

The desegregation of public schools with the landmark Brown v. the Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas (1954) decision granted African Americans access to white institutions of higher education. The goal of integration appeared to bestow equal opportunity to blacks to further their education. Moreover, the approaching implementation of desegregation seemed to suggest that African Americans would begin to matriculate speedily and graduate from PWIs at the same or greater rate that they had achieved at HBCUs (Arminio, Carter, Jones, Kruger, Lucas, Washington, Young & Scott, 2000). Prior to 1954, HBCUs housed the majority of black students; by 1973, three-fourths of black students attended PWIs. Despite the increased enrollment of African Americans at PWIs, HBCUs still graduate a disproportionate number of black students in comparison to their historically white counterparts (Allen, 1992; Easley, 1993). What inhibits black college students from fulfilling the goal of integration and what policies and philosophies of PWIs have kept the accessibility of a college degree to a bare minimum for black students?

Arguments have surfaced regarding the inequity in higher education for African American students. In general, black students seem academically, culturally, and economically incompatible with the PWI model of education (Hunt, Schmidt, Hunt, Boyd, & Magoon, 1994). The PWI model caters to individuals who academically meet white-created standards, such as high grade point averages and standardized test scores (Delgado, 1998; Easley, 1993; Sedlacek, 1999; Suen, 1983), who have culturally assimilated into mainstream society, and who possess the financial resources to pay for the rising cost of education. In effect, any student who does not identify with the tenets of the dominant paradigm in the United States can potentially struggle at PWIs. To cope with this system, some African American students have developed unique mechanisms to increase their chances of persistence (Kimbrough, Molock, & Walton, 1996), while many others who fail to establish those tools of persistence have fallen short in overcoming the challenges they face at PWIs. Some challenges that many blacks encounter at PWIs are hostile campuses, culturally ignorant students and staff, limited and decreasing economic assistance, lack of black faculty, and cultural alienation and isolation (Easley, 1993; Hawkins, 1989; Nagasawa & Wong, 1999; Taylor, 1989). By classifying and understanding the issues faced by African Americans at PWIs, the United States system of higher education can assist African American students to graduate and participate equally in education today.

THE CHALLENGES

When legally mandated to open their doors, PWIs admitted cultural outsiders with relatively little thought given or action taken to accommodate the ‘stranger' (Saddlemire, 1996; Taylor, 1989). With no real change in the PWI model as more blacks were admitted into white institutions, tension between cultures escalated (Taylor, 1989). The unchanging nature of most PWIs conveyed to some that white institutions were superior and students attempting to maneuver through them must conform to the institutional standards rather than evolving standards more appropriate for the needs of a diversifying student body (Taylor, 1989). According to Saddlemire (1996), African American students continue to perceive PWIs as hostile, unsupportive, and unwelcoming. One way that hostility manifests itself at white institutions is through peer culture. Fellow students' negative attitudes about the presence of blacks produces an unfriendly environment for blacks to reside and learn (Saddlemire, 1996).

Faculty and staff aid in constructing an adverse atmosphere for African American students (Kobrak, 1992; Saddlemire, 1996). Some faculty and other front-line college employees maintain elitist attitudes toward education; professors and other staff view their role as research and academically-oriented rather than as a retention agent or facilitator (Kobrak, 1992). The lack of African American faculty and staff also contributes to the problems that African American students face at PWIs (Allen, 1992). Another significant factor in formulating a stressful college climate for African American students is individual and institutional racism. What black students experience in the classroom with instructors serves as a catalyst for racist behavior by students and other faculty (Kobrak, 1992).

At PWIs, African American students confront ignorance about black culture (Allen, 1992). The curricula, teaching styles, student services, and the campuses in general are tailored to white students (Taylor, 1989). For example, when black students read history books or are taught math, the curriculum is usually derived from a monocultural perspective. Most of the curriculum reflects the dominant culture's perspective and generally excludes nonwhites' cultures and perspectives (Taylor, 1989). Moreover, even when the minority voice is conveyed in the classroom, it is piecemealed into the learning process as a "side dish" to the white American "entrée" (hooks, 1992). Consequently, when non-white students embark on the educational process at PWIs, they are met with indifference because their perspective is not incorporated into the fabric of the university (Easley, 1993).

Ignorance not only plagues PWIs' administrations and staff, but also incubates within majority students. Saddlemire (1996) conducted a qualitative study of white students' attitudes about African Americans. His findings indicated white freshmen had little or no contact with African Americans, yet they harbored negative assumptions about blacks and black culture. These students felt that black students intentionally secluded themselves from whites. Several indicated they rarely interacted with African Americans on their college campus. However, when these students did have positive interactions with black students, it was always stated as an exception. The exceptions that were mentioned were African Americans who culturally identified as white (Saddlemire, 1996). Current literature about white student attitudes regarding African American students is scarce. Although many researchers assume that majority students harbor negative feelings toward black students, the literature is actually inconclusive (Saddlemire, 1996). Although Saddlemire's results are not generalizable, they can help people realize the kinds of attitudes white students have towards blacks.

Understanding the frame of reference that many black students come from may shed light on their current situation in higher education. In comparison to white students, African American students have parents that generally live in urban areas, acquire fewer educational degrees, labor in lower status jobs, make less money, and divorce more often (Allen, 1992; Leslie & Brinkman, 1988). Furthermore, black students at PWIs have higher attrition rates, poorer academic performance, and are less likely to pursue graduate degrees than white students (Allen, 1992).

A key component in comprehending African American culture is understanding how blacks generally fashion their cultural values and beliefs. Often, African Americans who attend PWIs are accused of self-segregating (Stewart, Russell, & Wright, 1997). However, what is seen as separation can be interpreted as a coping mechanism. African Americans tend to construct their social values more from a family or group orientation (Kimbrough, R. M., Molock, S. D., & Walton, K., 1996; Thompson & Fretz, 1991) than other ethnic groups. Hence, when black students enter a PWI which possesses an invalidating and hostile environment, some blacks resort to their social values and seek out other black students to create allies amidst opposition (Fleming, 1984). Thus, white students and staff assist in creating an atmosphere where feelings of alienation, marginalization, and isolation are common among blacks who then find it necessary to establish their own social networks (Allen, 1992; Nagasawa & Wong, 1999; Willie & McCord, 1972). These social outlets include black student unions, historically black fraternities and sororities, and other such organizations (Culbert, 1988; Kimbrough et al., 1996). The genesis of many of these black organizations stemmed from exclusion from the larger campus community (Williams, 1994).

An additional facet of black life at PWIs entails the duality of black students' existence. Dubois (1965) pointed out that African Americans must not only look at society through their own eyes, but also they must look at it through the majority culture's eyes in order to survive in the majority-dominated society. Black college students must be able to balance both cultural worlds (Kimbrough, R. M., Molock, S. D., & Walton, K., 1996; Thompson & Fretz, 1991). However, some students would be labeled 'black' in societal terms, but do not identify easily with black culture. These students are not the individuals that the research studies. The problem arises when black students who wish to retain their cultural identity struggle to operate successfully in a predominantly different culture without being marginalized.

PAST SUCCESS: LOOKING AT THE HBCU MODEL

Poor campus climate, attitudes of indifference, ignorance, and other issues all emerge as challenges that African Americans deal with at PWIs. However, PWIs have been touted and assumed to be the best places for black student development (Allen, 1992; Fleming, 1984). A negative stigma clouds the success of HBCUs (Lang, 1994). In terms of prestige and values in this society, degrees from PWIs seem to carry more clout than degrees from HBCUs (Lang, 1994). Despite this notion, blacks who have successfully completed degrees from black colleges have gone on to lead successful lives. The continued dominance of HBCUs in graduating proportionately more black students is significant (Lang, 1994). The model that HBCUs utilize appears to be a successful formula for black student graduation that PWIs could learn from and adapt (Robinson, 1990).

In the HBCU model, colleges attempt to educate and graduate all students who are admitted. Financial disadvantage, low SAT or ACT scores, or mediocre high school grade point averages do not always hinder HBCUs from admitting students (Robinson, 1990). The HBCU philosophy asserts that they take students where they are and help them get to where they need to be. On the other hand, PWIs generally look for just "the best and the brightest" and weed out students that cannot meet the standards. Black students that attend HBCUs have significant identity development advantages over their counterparts at PWIs (Lang, 1994). Some of these benefits are that African American students at HBCUs are more psychologically adjusted, perform better academically, and have a better sense of their cultural identity (Allen 1992).

CONCLUSION: ACTION PLAN FOR PWI'S

There are various factors that affect any student's ability to successfully complete a college degree. In terms of African American students attending PWIs, unique challenges have continued to stifle the numbers of black graduates at PWIs. These challenges range from hostile environments to societal issues. Given the HBCU model, concrete strategies can be used to eradicate some of the obstacles that blacks encounter at PWIs.

One of the major challenges for African American students is the campus environment. Human development models suggest that humans develop best in surroundings where they are valued, feel safe and accepted, and have social networks (Allen, 1992). Currently, PWIs fail to provide black students with an environment that values them on a consistent basis. Recruitment of black students to some PWIs is a purely cosmetic endeavor (Hawkins, 1989). Some African American students believe they are getting a cruise boat with all the fixings because PWIs imply they have many black students or substantial services for students of color. However, when black students step foot on predominantly white campuses, they get a tiny tugboat, like black student services being located in an obscure place and very few black students in attendance. Because PWIs possess the ability to empower individuals through education, the people they employ must recognize they have the power to facilitate or frustrate student success. With that in mind, PWIs need to consciously reevaluate the campus environment in which students learn and grow. For PWIs to realistically provide education and service to the entire student population, a commitment to diversity must come from the highest administrator (D'Augelli & Hershberger, 1993). Predominantly white institutions should judge the worth of college as more than an academic function. Teacher-student relations can promote a healthier climate; African American students need those relationships because they can ultimately determine a student's academic success (Kobrak, 1992). Moreover, colleges need to take deliberate steps to understand why African American students are not succeeding and devise plans to encourage success.

The lack of success of African American college students at PWIs points to a larger societal issue. To totally understand the predicament of African American students at PWIs, there must be comprehension of the plight of blacks in the United States (Allen, 1992). Black students undoubtedly face challenges at PWIs. There are concrete solutions to help ease the problem. Hiring black faculty and staff (Karpinski, 1996), providing support services that target black students, implementing cultural and social services, and devising comprehensive retention plans all will be steps that can facilitate black student achievement at PWIs (Arminio et al, 2000).


XXXXX please. AA posts and posts like this always end in flames (So let me get started in an effort to get this thread closed). Black people are not dumber than White people, they should not be held to different standards. Why do these arguments always hinge on race when the only factor should be socioeconomic. If GPA and standardized test are not supposed to be used what do you want them to use? How proficient they are in 'ebonics', how low their pants sag, how good they are at being lazy. Most colleges bend over backward to admit black students that show even the slightest qualifications. I made a list of med schools ranking them from lowest GPA to highest, guess which ones were the top 3. At some point in the future there will be nothing left to blame. And in the end its black people who will have to step up and take responsibility for any failures.

This article is a :thumbdown:

race-card.gif
 
I have said this before and I will say it again (with all sympathy to the OP). Med school, residency etc is the time to stop focusing on race. Honestly, when you are all getting the hospital at 5:00am to pre-round no one gives a flip what color your skin is. When you have 5 new admits at 2am, the shade of the intern's body is meaningless.

I am white, but I find medicine to be basically colorblind. I have worked with other students/residents/attendings of many, many races and NO ONE CARES. I'm sure that people of other races probably feel a sense of "otherness" but white people are a majority in this country so how is that ever going to change?

The fact that anyone even cares about this says alot about our society. Travel to Saudi Arabia, China, or Indonesia and try to get people to care about how isolated you feel.
 
yes I forgot how "white" trains and cars travelling at different speeds toward each other are :rolleyes: I can see "eurocentric" history, english, etc... but math? give me a break...

FWIW when I was in undergrad a fellow pre-med told me the MCAT was biased towards white students...
 
XXXX please. AA posts and posts like this always end in flames (So let me get started in an effort to get this thread closed). Black people are not dumber than White people, they should not be held to different standards. Why do these arguments always hinge on race when the only factor should be socioeconomic. If GPA and standardized test are not supposed to be used what do you want them to use? How proficient they are in 'ebonics', how low their pants sag, how good they are at being lazy. Most colleges bend over backward to admit black students that show even the slightest qualifications. I made a list of med schools ranking them from lowest GPA to highest, guess which ones were the top 3. At some point in the future there will be nothing left to blame. And in the end its black people who will have to step up and take responsibility for any failures.

This article is a :thumbdown:

race-card.gif

This person might be a doctor someday. So don't try to tell me that people become colorblind when they get to medical school and beyond.
 
I think a lot of the problem has to do with affirmative action. I can understand how some students could be a little upset by the fact that they have to go to med school with someone that had poor grades/MCAT scores and still got in as a result of there race. I know this is not always the case, but it's really upsetting when you think about it. As a white male, I think that the best students with the highest marks should be admitted regardless of race. If a student is African American, White, Asian, or purple, they should be admitted to med school because they have a high GPA, a good MCAT score, good EC's, and an outstanding interview. I'm not saying that all minorities groups do poorly. I have several friends who are minorities that do have better stats than me. I know a few with perfect GPA's and by all means these students deserve it more than me. What gets to me, and also what I think creates a lot of tension in these programs is the fact that people automatically assume that a minority student got in with low stats and played the race card to get in. Of course this is probably not the case in most instances, but it happens and most people are not willing to ignore it. I'm no expert but I think the principle of these actions is based around the fact that some lay claim that minorities have a harder time in undergraduate studies based on limiting factors such as income and all the other problems that that entails. I for one think that if this is indeed the case, they should not base such decisions on race. I think they should base this on income and other restraining factors, but not race. There are too many confounding variables that come into play when you take something trivial as skin color and turn it into something that holds so much weight. I know life is not fair but let's say that a minority student comes from a wealthy family and never really has to hold down a job in undergrad. This student has no excuse for doing poorly, however if one does, he or she can always have his or her chances boosted just for being a member of a minority group. I know several white males, myself included, that work two jobs, and pay for their own education, which is something that is quite difficult to do, and yes, it can definitely hinder your performance as an undergrad, however, when it's all said and done some white students have suffered through some very overwhelming hardships as well, but when we are finished, we do not get to play the minority card. We have to compete with all the other white males, which is the most competitive group to belong to. I'm not making excuses. My numbers are on par with what's acceptable; however, I have sacrificed just like any minority group has in terms of struggling to get to where they want to be. I guess I strayed a little from the OP's original response; however, this is why I think that there is a great deal of tension by some towards minorities in medical school. Take my opinion with a grain of salt.
 
This person might be a doctor someday. So don't try to tell me that people become colorblind when they get to medical school and beyond.

And so will thousands of underqualified (relatively speaking) black people so whats your point? The '***** please' is a reference to a post by another user named zahque. I was very exasperated when I wrote the post hence the picture and in hindsight it was in bad taste. But since it was quoted there was no point in deleting it and it does do a good job of portraying how the scenario looks to an outsider (I am neither white nor black). Otherwise I feel that my argument was relatively coherent. Like I said only in socioeconomic status (regardless of race) should a break be given.

Some sites that say it better than I can.

"Affirmative Action is supposed to be a program designed to end racism, but isn't it really justifying racism by it's own actions. Its policies totally judge people solely on skin color and gender. That is discrimination in itself. Is discrimination the solution to resolving past discrimination? No, it's not. No program can be considered good when it hurts others. Affirmative Action tried to help minorities and women, but in the process, reverse discrimination has taken place. Now, white males are discriminated against. This can not be an affirmative program if there is a form of discrimination involved. Instead of choosing a candidate for a job or for school admission, because of one's color or gender, it should be because of their talents and abilities. The best any colored male or female should be selected for the job, or to get accepted into school. Why should some people get special preferences over others? It just isn't correct. There should be no special treatments, and no special preferences given to people. Everyone has the opportunity to advance in this country, you just have to take the initiative"

anti

Affirmative action leads to reverse discrimination.
Affirmative action lowers standards of accountability needed to push students or employees to perform better.
Students admitted on this basis are often ill-equipped to handle the schools to which they've been admitted.
It would help lead a truly color-blind society.
It is condescending to minorities to say they need affirmative action to succeed.
It demeans true minority achievement; i.e. success is labeled as result of affirmative action rather than hard work and ability.

Pro (just to be fair, but I still think they are weak or flawed)

Diversity is desirable and won't always occur if left to chance.
Students starting at a disadvantage need a boost.
Affirmative action draws people to areas of study and work they may never consider otherwise.
Some stereotypes may never be broken without affirmative action.
Affirmative action is needed to compensate minorities for centuries of slavery or oppression.

There are probably hundreds of threads on SDN about AA by now but people keep bringing the issue up.
 
You obviously haven't interacted with African-American/Black physicians whose patients have outright requested a White doctor and refused to be treated by them. Nor have you heard about Black doctors, who despite having introduced themselves as Dr. So-and-So, performed an invasive procedure only an M.D. is capable of and then been asked by their patient, "When will I see the doctor?"

Just because the color of your skin permits you to be oblivious to certain issues, does not mean that they do not exist.

Perhaps you all should take a look at the following Newsweek Article: "My Black Skin Makes My White Coat Vanish" by Mana Lumumba-Kasongo

It never ceases to amaze me how the people who race affects the least feel that they are in a position to quantify/qualify its effects...


I have said this before and I will say it again (with all sympathy to the OP). Med school, residency etc is the time to stop focusing on race. Honestly, when you are all getting the hospital at 5:00am to pre-round no one gives a flip what color your skin is. When you have 5 new admits at 2am, the shade of the intern's body is meaningless.

I am white, but I find medicine to be basically colorblind. I have worked with other students/residents/attendings of many, many races and NO ONE CARES. I'm sure that people of other races probably feel a sense of "otherness" but white people are a majority in this country so how is that ever going to change?

The fact that anyone even cares about this says alot about our society. Travel to Saudi Arabia, China, or Indonesia and try to get people to care about how isolated you feel.
 
I think a lot of the problem has to do with affirmative action. I can understand how some students could be a little upset by the fact that they have to go to med school with someone that had poor grades/MCAT scores and still got in as a result of there race. I know this is not always the case, but it's really upsetting when you think about it. As a white male, I think that the best students with the highest marks should be admitted regardless of race. If a student is African American, White, Asian, or purple, they should be admitted to med school because they have a high GPA, a good MCAT score, good EC's, and an outstanding interview. I'm not saying that all minorities groups do poorly. I have several friends who are minorities that do have better stats than me. I know a few with perfect GPA's and by all means these students deserve it more than me. What gets to me, and also what I think creates a lot of tension in these programs is the fact that people automatically assume that a minority student got in with low stats and played the race card to get in. Of course this is probably not the case in most instances, but it happens and most people are not willing to ignore it. I'm no expert but I think the principle of these actions is based around the fact that some lay claim that minorities have a harder time in undergraduate studies based on limiting factors such as income and all the other problems that that entails. I for one think that if this is indeed the case, they should not base such decisions on race. I think they should base this on income and other restraining factors, but not race. There are too many confounding variables that come into play when you take something trivial as skin color and turn it into something that holds so much weight. I know life is not fair but let's say that a minority student comes from a wealthy family and never really has to hold down a job in undergrad. This student has no excuse for doing poorly, however if one does, he or she can always have his or her chances boosted just for being a member of a minority group. I know several white males, myself included, that work two jobs, and pay for their own education, which is something that is quite difficult to do, and yes, it can definitely hinder your performance as an undergrad, however, when it's all said and done some white students have suffered through some very overwhelming hardships as well, but when we are finished, we do not get to play the minority card. We have to compete with all the other white males, which is the most competitive group to belong to. I'm not making excuses. My numbers are on par with what's acceptable; however, I have sacrificed just like any minority group has in terms of struggling to get to where they want to be. I guess I strayed a little from the OP's original response; however, this is why I think that there is a great deal of tension by some towards minorities in medical school. Take my opinion with a grain of salt.


White and students of all races are allowed to mark themselves as disadvantaged on AMCAS and provide an explanation justifying that. It can be economically, educationally or whatever. So, with your hardships, yes, you did have a chance to play the "disadvantaged" card; whether or not you did is up to you. Also, contrary to popular belief, medical schools don't accept minority students with terrible MCAT scores. To my knowledge, most schools have an absolute minimum cut off score which may or may not be published, often 24. That a school decides to take a black student with 25 and not a white with 31 should not necessarily be touted as playing the race card as though the student doesn't deserve to be there. We all know that many other factors are taken into consideration at the discretion of the medical school. I don't see non-urms getting bent out of shape when someone of their own race gets in with a lower score than theirs, e.g. white male 27 getting into his state school and white male 32 getting rejected. Numbers alone don't get people into medical school-- if you look at stats on AAMC's website, many students with high MCATs and GPA get rejected every year.
Medical schools don't wish to accept people who will likely not succeed or drop out, but success in itself is very subjective. ad com members decide what minimum standards in their best judgement indicate ability to handle medical school curriculum. IMO, as long as an urm meets that standard, they are just as entitled as another student with a higher score to get admitted. Can you really say with certainty that someone who scored 8 or 9 on any section cannot study their ass off and pass exams like everyone else in med school?. Remember the equation P = MD? Even the USMLE has a minimum passing score of 185. So, unless schools are accepting urms with 15 and 18 MCATs, non-urm need to get off our backs!. urms take up no more than 10 - 20 seats in a class of 150+ at most medical schools, so when non-urms don't get in, they should start laying their frustrations on something else. The AA issue is getting old, fast.
 
White and students of all races are allowed to mark themselves as disadvantaged on AMCAS and provide an explanation justifying that. It can be economically, educationally or whatever. So, with your hardships, yes, you did have a chance to play the "disadvantaged" card; whether or not you did is up to you. Also, contrary to popular belief, medical schools don't accept minority students with terrible MCAT scores. To my knowledge, most schools have an absolute minimum cut off score which may or may not be published, often 24. That a school decides to take a black student with 25 and not a white with 31 should not necessarily be touted as playing the race card as though the student doesn't deserve to be there. We all know that many other factors are taken into consideration at the discretion of the medical school. I don't see non-urms getting bent out of shape when someone of their own race gets in with a lower score than theirs, e.g. white male 27 getting into his state school and white male 32 getting rejected. Numbers alone don't get people into medical school-- if you look at stats on AAMC's website, many students with high MCATs and GPA get rejected every year.
Medical schools don't wish to accept people who will likely not succeed or drop out, but success in itself is very subjective. ad com members decide what minimum standards in their best judgement indicate ability to handle medical school curriculum. IMO, as long as an urm meets that standard, they are just as entitled as another student with a higher score to get admitted. Can you really say with certainty that someone who scored 8 or 9 on any section cannot study their ass off and pass exams like everyone else in med school?. Remember the equation P = MD? Even the USMLE has a minimum passing score of 185. So, unless schools are accepting urms with 15 and 18 MCATs, non-urm need to get off our backs!. urms take up no more than 10 - 20 seats in a class of 150+ at most medical schools, so when non-urms don't get in, they should start laying their frustrations on something else. The AA issue is getting old, fast.

Well said. I was not saying that certain people do not deserve to go to med school. That's not my place. I was merely addressing an opinion that I know many poeple have. Sadly these thoughts have entered my mind from time to time as well, but I try to to think that med schools are not going to admit someone who is not intelligent enough to pass, so in the end, what does it really matter? I just thought I would address a point of view that I know exists. I thought this would tie into your post and possibly offer you an explanation.
 
Well said. I was not saying that certain people do not deserve to go to med school. That's not my place. I was merely addressing an opinion that I know many poeple have. Sadly these thoughts have entered my mind from time to time as well, but I try to to think that med schools are not going to admit someone who is not intelligent enough to pass, so in the end, what does it really matter? I just thought I would address a point of view that I know exists. I thought this would tie into your post and possibly offer you an explanation.


I know that many people out there share that point of view and it's fine that you mentioned it. My post wasn't directed at you per se, just addressing the AA issue from my perspective. Thanks for your input.
 
I have said this before and I will say it again (with all sympathy to the OP). Med school, residency etc is the time to stop focusing on race. Honestly, when you are all getting the hospital at 5:00am to pre-round no one gives a flip what color your skin is. When you have 5 new admits at 2am, the shade of the intern's body is meaningless.

I am white, but I find medicine to be basically colorblind. I have worked with other students/residents/attendings of many, many races and NO ONE CARES. I'm sure that people of other races probably feel a sense of "otherness" but white people are a majority in this country so how is that ever going to change?

The fact that anyone even cares about this says alot about our society. Travel to Saudi Arabia, China, or Indonesia and try to get people to care about how isolated you feel.

I am sorry my friend, but this is not TRUE. We all hold certain prejudices and opinions about people of other ethnic backgrounds, and these prejudices will affect our dealings with individuals who are different.

Also, I have friends on the wards and friends that are practicing physicians whom have encountered patients that refused to be treated by a African American physician. And this is not a one time thing. One of my colleagues is still thought to be a janitor by staff at Duke Hospitals after 6 years in the MD/PhD program.
 
I am white, but I find medicine to be basically colorblind. I have worked with other students/residents/attendings of many, many races and NO ONE CARES. .

This is terribly naive and misguided, unless you are exclusively talking about looking at cells under a microscope and biochemical pathways (which I hope you don't believe entirely compose health care). Medicine is part of a huge, complicated, sprawling system made up of and serving PEOPLE -- doctors, nurses, allied health professionals, bureaucrats, politicians, lawyers, administrators, businesspeople, and patients all make up the system, each with their own goals, stories, perspectives, and prejudices. How can the system as a whole be any less colorblind than its components?

Please don't tell me this is irrelevant because you are only interested in practicing the pure science of medicine or something like that. Doctors are part of this system whether they like it or not. I believe that regardless of what your personal political or whatever beliefs may be, trying to separate medicine from the real world that surrounds it is rather short-sighted. First of all it's simply inaccurate, and second, it's likely to leave you lost and left behind when the real world surrounding it shifts, as tends to happen every once in a while. This is perhaps some part of the reason there are so many disillusioned older doctors.:idea:
 
I agree that prejudice is a natural occurrence. If you saw a red burner on a stove, your assumption is it is hot. It might be painted that way. Prejudice is natural but it is what one does with your prejudice that makes your actions right or wrong.

That being said, I feel that there major regional dynamics that rarely get attention. I have lived in the Plains most of my life. I moved to Tampa for 6 months and worked for Coca Cola. I was offered a promotion after 2 months of being there. The gentlemen that trained me had both been working there for over 10 years, did not receive the same offer. They both were hard workers but I can say they were a bit disgruntle (I believe it was justified). The difference, I was white, they were black.

I never ever saw that kind of blatant racism in my life. I was good friends with the two guys and they said it was normal in the South. I have had a multicultural group of friends my whole life so I could not understand.

Now to get to the point, I wonder where these studies were done? Many of the minority students that I attended undergrad with did great. They seemed to feel comfortable with the environment even though they were grossly in the minority. The ones that did not do well general spent more time getting into trouble outside of school and seemed to be there only to play sports, but this was true for whites as well as minority students.

So have some of the minority students experienced a difference in racism, ageism, ect in different geographic regions?
 
I agree that prejudice is a natural occurrence. If you saw a red burner on a stove, your assumption is it is hot. It might be painted that way. Prejudice is natural but it is what one does with your prejudice that makes your actions right or wrong.

That being said, I feel that there major regional dynamics that rarely get attention. I have lived in the Plains most of my life. I moved to Tampa for 6 months and worked for Coca Cola. I was offered a promotion after 2 months of being there. The gentlemen that trained me had both been working there for over 10 years, did not receive the same offer. They both were hard workers but I can say they were a bit disgruntle (I believe it was justified). The difference, I was white, they were black.

I never ever saw that kind of blatant racism in my life. I was good friends with the two guys and they said it was normal in the South. I have had a multicultural group of friends my whole life so I could not understand.

?


This is another thing that I've found interesting...It seems to me that if you talk to enough people who have moved around the country in enough different directions, you'll hear "I NEVER saw racism like that until I got to _____(just about anywhere)."

I've heard people of many races say it about many different places, sometimes direct opposites -- people from the deep South saying they never saw true racism in person until they got to northern rust belt cities -- Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh--, people from Cali saying they never saw racism until they got to the south or midwest, people from the east coast saying they never saw real racism up close until they got to Cali and said everything race related out there really is exactly like the movie Crash, people from the midwest saying they never saw racism until they went to the south, and people from anywhere in the country saying they never saw it until they moved to Cincinnati.

(Sorry, that was mean...but I def have heard it out of a lot of people who moved there)

Anyway, my theory is that this just goes to show you quite how widespread and pervasive racism really still is. The thing is that it's different everywhere, because every city or region has its own history, demographics, its own forms and mixtures of institutional or personal racism, and overall just it's own very specific racial situation.

So when you live in these places for years, you become so used to the racial landscape there that you stop noticing it -- you think it's normal. When you go somewhere, maybe almost anywhere, you encounter an entirely new landscape that may or may not be any better or worse, but is certainly completely different, and I think it kind of has a tendency to slap you in the face.

I dunno, maybe I'm way off base...I totally understand the story and what you're saying. I just feel like I've heard that about so many different places. I can't help but wonder that if those guys went up to where you're from, they may very well experience a subtly different flavor of racism that through no fault of your own you weren't even aware of, but they'd notice it even more than the racism they're accustomed to at home.

I'm a Chicagoan...Personally I feel like I don't have much in depth personal experience with racism here, and even though of course I know it exists, if I didn't know any better sometimes it might be easy to fall into the trap of thinking it's not a problem here. But of course the fact is Chicago has had a very ugly racial history, and is, despite its diversity, still by some measures a very segregated city. I have been told several times by transplants from other regions that they first saw blantant racism here.
 
You obviously haven't interacted with African-American/Black physicians whose patients have outright requested a White doctor and refused to be treated by them. Nor have you heard about Black doctors, who despite having introduced themselves as Dr. So-and-So, performed an invasive procedure only an M.D. is capable of and then been asked by their patient, "When will I see the doctor?"

Just because the color of your skin permits you to be oblivious to certain issues, does not mean that they do not exist.

Perhaps you all should take a look at the following Newsweek Article: "My Black Skin Makes My White Coat Vanish" by Mana Lumumba-Kasongo

It never ceases to amaze me how the people who race affects the least feel that they are in a position to quantify/qualify its effects...

Also, I have friends on the wards and friends that are practicing physicians whom have encountered patients that refused to be treated by a African American physician. And this is not a one time thing. One of my colleagues is still thought to be a janitor by staff at Duke Hospitals after 6 years in the MD/PhD program.

This is terribly naive and misguided, unless you are exclusively talking about looking at cells under a microscope and biochemical pathways (which I hope you don't believe entirely compose health care). Medicine is part of a huge, complicated, sprawling system made up of and serving PEOPLE -- doctors, nurses, allied health professionals, bureaucrats, politicians, lawyers, administrators, businesspeople, and patients all make up the system, each with their own goals, stories, perspectives, and prejudices. How can the system as a whole be any less colorblind than its components?

Please don't tell me this is irrelevant because you are only interested in practicing the pure science of medicine or something like that. Doctors are part of this system whether they like it or not. I believe that regardless of what your personal political or whatever beliefs may be, trying to separate medicine from the real world that surrounds it is rather short-sighted. First of all it's simply inaccurate, and second, it's likely to leave you lost and left behind when the real world surrounding it shifts, as tends to happen every once in a while. This is perhaps some part of the reason there are so many disillusioned older doctors.:idea:

Rather than call Amory Blaine "naive," look carefully at the article, and then at what he's saying. What he said, in essence, is that the article points out problems that are specific to undergrad institutions. He then went on to say that these problems to not translate to medical school institutions. How your future patients treat you is not under your school's control. For example, if a patient refuses to let an openly gay physician/med student treatment, that is not a result of a homophobic sentiment on campus. Or if a male patient refuses to have a female urologist, that doesn't mean that the school's administration is openly misogynistic. That's just based on the patient's prejudice, and has nothing to do with the institution that is providing your education.

To expand on what Amory Blaine said, there are some significant differences between med school and undergrad that make the points raised in the article somewhat moot. For instance:
1) Med school retention is a problem for students of all ethnicities, not just African-Americans. Furthermore, student support services are very important at all med schools as well. The workload is enough to make anyone depressed and discouraged - in this case, ethnicity is not as important. Many people of all races feel lonely, depressed, and isolated at some point in med school - because they didn't do well on a test, or they're burned out from studying, etc.

The article also stated that financial burdens make it harder for black students to stay in college. In med school EVERYONE has huge financial burdens that make it hard for them to stay in school. (Well, except for the military kids, but they've got their own set of obligations.) True, black students may have a harder time than others, but it's not a picnic for everyone else either.

2) Unlike college, med schools pretty much have to teach all their students some degree of "cultural fluency." In college, this was optional, but, in med school, the assumption is that you will meet a huge variety of patients. They are, therefore, expected to teach students how to navigate a wide variety of cultures, including African-American culture. (Yes, I mean that you will have formal lecture hours devoted to these topics.)

3) The article points out that it is important to teach from a multi-ethnic point of view. ("Most of the curriculum reflects the dominant culture's perspective and generally excludes nonwhites' cultures and perspectives") In college, there are many "subjective" courses where it would be possible to teach from a monocultural viewpoint - literature, history, sociology. In med school, there are virtually none. It's impossible to teach renal histology from a multi-cultural viewpoint - it's like trying to teach calculus from the Swedish cultural point of view.

4) In college, a lot of students felt a need for "black cultural outlets" on campus - i.e. fraternities/sororities, clubs, etc. This is kind of less of a problem in med school. Med school doesn't have as pronounced a "campus culture" as college does. You just don't have as much time for those kind of cultural outlets anymore. It's med school - your major social network is your study group, pretty much.

I know - I have heard that black doctors and med students face discrimination from patients when they step out onto the wards. But many med students will face some sort of patient-derived discrimination at some point. Ask any female med student, and she will tell you at least 1 story of how a patient kept calling her "nurse." Asian med students have complained that patients talk LOUDLY and SLOWLY, because, of course, non-English speakers are deaf. But none of this discrimination is the medical school's fault.
 
Speaking of ignorance and stereotyping:
Stan Smith said:
Oh c'mon! Why does it always have to be a racial thing with you blacks?
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wrvgx4x7JA[/YOUTUBE]

Mana Lumumba-Kasongo
Stan Smith said:
"Well done Skittles!"
 
Rather than call Amory Blaine "naive," look carefully at the article, and then at what he's saying. What he said, in essence, is that the article points out problems that are specific to undergrad institutions. He then went on to say that these problems to not translate to medical school institutions. How your future patients treat you is not under your school's control. For example, if a patient refuses to let an openly gay physician/med student treatment, that is not a result of a homophobic sentiment on campus. Or if a male patient refuses to have a female urologist, that doesn't mean that the school's administration is openly misogynistic. That's just based on the patient's prejudice, and has nothing to do with the institution that is providing your education.

To expand on what Amory Blaine said, there are some significant differences between med school and undergrad that make the points raised in the article somewhat moot. For instance:
1) Med school retention is a problem for students of all ethnicities, not just African-Americans. Furthermore, student support services are very important at all med schools as well. The workload is enough to make anyone depressed and discouraged - in this case, ethnicity is not as important. Many people of all races feel lonely, depressed, and isolated at some point in med school - because they didn't do well on a test, or they're burned out from studying, etc.

The article also stated that financial burdens make it harder for black students to stay in college. In med school EVERYONE has huge financial burdens that make it hard for them to stay in school. (Well, except for the military kids, but they've got their own set of obligations.) True, black students may have a harder time than others, but it's not a picnic for everyone else either.

2) Unlike college, med schools pretty much have to teach all their students some degree of "cultural fluency." In college, this was optional, but, in med school, the assumption is that you will meet a huge variety of patients. They are, therefore, expected to teach students how to navigate a wide variety of cultures, including African-American culture. (Yes, I mean that you will have formal lecture hours devoted to these topics.)

3) The article points out that it is important to teach from a multi-ethnic point of view. ("Most of the curriculum reflects the dominant culture’s perspective and generally excludes nonwhites' cultures and perspectives") In college, there are many "subjective" courses where it would be possible to teach from a monocultural viewpoint - literature, history, sociology. In med school, there are virtually none. It's impossible to teach renal histology from a multi-cultural viewpoint - it's like trying to teach calculus from the Swedish cultural point of view.

4) In college, a lot of students felt a need for "black cultural outlets" on campus - i.e. fraternities/sororities, clubs, etc. This is kind of less of a problem in med school. Med school doesn't have as pronounced a "campus culture" as college does. You just don't have as much time for those kind of cultural outlets anymore. It's med school - your major social network is your study group, pretty much.

I know - I have heard that black doctors and med students face discrimination from patients when they step out onto the wards. But many med students will face some sort of patient-derived discrimination at some point. Ask any female med student, and she will tell you at least 1 story of how a patient kept calling her "nurse." Asian med students have complained that patients talk LOUDLY and SLOWLY, because, of course, non-English speakers are deaf. But none of this discrimination is the medical school's fault.

Thanks for the support. You said it very well.

I think it's telling that the 3 people who tried to refute my post basically focused on patient perceptions of minority doctors. One of the faculty at my school sums it up pretty well, "some people are jerks."

Seriously, this is the same patient population that refused to stop eating McD's, smoking cigarettes, and sitting on the couch every waking hour of the day. Now, when a few of them are racist to boot, we are supposed to be suprised and cite that as evidence of racial problems in medicine?

We, as well educated people seem to think that to achieve a proper degree of racial sensitivity we need to surround ourselves with those of other races, read ethnic literature, and take special diversity education classes. So are we to be suprised that Mr. Jones, the factory worker from Nowhere, TX, doesn't want the black surgeon to take out his gallbladder?

I freely admitted that I was not in the best position to assess racial issues, I was just offering my opinion (I think I'm allowed to have one). Med school is stressful. As a med student, you get sh** on constantly. I have a difficult time understand how minority students know when their race is being used against them.

Some people are jerks!
 
This is another thing that I've found interesting...It seems to me that if you talk to enough people who have moved around the country in enough different directions, you'll hear "I NEVER saw racism like that until I got to _____(just about anywhere)."

I've heard people of many races say it about many different places, sometimes direct opposites -- people from the deep South saying they never saw true racism in person until they got to northern rust belt cities -- Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh--, people from Cali saying they never saw racism until they got to the south or midwest, people from the east coast saying they never saw real racism up close until they got to Cali and said everything race related out there really is exactly like the movie Crash, people from the midwest saying they never saw racism until they went to the south, and people from anywhere in the country saying they never saw it until they moved to Cincinnati.

(Sorry, that was mean...but I def have heard it out of a lot of people who moved there)

Anyway, my theory is that this just goes to show you quite how widespread and pervasive racism really still is. The thing is that it's different everywhere, because every city or region has its own history, demographics, its own forms and mixtures of institutional or personal racism, and overall just it's own very specific racial situation.

So when you live in these places for years, you become so used to the racial landscape there that you stop noticing it -- you think it's normal. When you go somewhere, maybe almost anywhere, you encounter an entirely new landscape that may or may not be any better or worse, but is certainly completely different, and I think it kind of has a tendency to slap you in the face.

I dunno, maybe I'm way off base...I totally understand the story and what you're saying. I just feel like I've heard that about so many different places. I can't help but wonder that if those guys went up to where you're from, they may very well experience a subtly different flavor of racism that through no fault of your own you weren't even aware of, but they'd notice it even more than the racism they're accustomed to at home.

I'm a Chicagoan...Personally I feel like I don't have much in depth personal experience with racism here, and even though of course I know it exists, if I didn't know any better sometimes it might be easy to fall into the trap of thinking it's not a problem here. But of course the fact is Chicago has had a very ugly racial history, and is, despite its diversity, still by some measures a very segregated city. I have been told several times by transplants from other regions that they first saw blantant racism here.

Lol, by ALL measures Chicago is one of the most segregated cities in the country. I think like # 2 to be exact. Good points though.
 
XXXXX please. AA posts and posts like this always end in flames (So let me get started in an effort to get this thread closed). Black people are not dumber than White people, they should not be held to different standards. Why do these arguments always hinge on race when the only factor should be socioeconomic. If GPA and standardized test are not supposed to be used what do you want them to use? How proficient they are in 'ebonics', how low their pants sag, how good they are at being lazy. Most colleges bend over backward to admit black students that show even the slightest qualifications. I made a list of med schools ranking them from lowest GPA to highest, guess which ones were the top 3. At some point in the future there will be nothing left to blame. And in the end its black people who will have to step up and take responsibility for any failures.

This article is a :thumbdown:

race-card.gif



Okay Let's come to a compromise. I am a black applicant. I go to an ivy league school where sadly the grade inflation is contained within the english department. Oh yeah and my stats (especially my MCAT) means I can get in anywhere, if they were to look only at my numbers. Just assume I am every black med student or applicant you see, because despite what you think we all work hard and we get in based on our hardwork and our committment.
 
I thought the first article was okay, but it struck me as terribly vague while claiming to be specific. But I do take issue with a few things mentioned in the article.

The PWI model caters to individuals who academically meet white-created standards, such as high grade point averages and standardized test scores (Delgado, 1998; Easley, 1993; Sedlacek, 1999; Suen, 1983), who have culturally assimilated into mainstream society, and who possess the financial resources to pay for the rising cost of education.

That just totally baffles me. These are numerical standards. What does it have to do with race? A lot of institutions, work places, and professional sports leagues have standards to which they evaluate people regardless of race. These numbers should never be compromised. Do NFL scouts rethink the 40 time so they can let in slower athletes? Hell no. I hate this dumbing down of standards.

At PWIs, African American students confront ignorance about black culture (Allen, 1992). The curricula, teaching styles, student services, and the campuses in general are tailored to white students (Taylor, 1989). For example, when black students read history books or are taught math, the curriculum is usually derived from a monocultural perspective. Most of the curriculum reflects the dominant culture's perspective and generally excludes nonwhites' cultures and perspectives (Taylor, 1989). Moreover, even when the minority voice is conveyed in the classroom, it is piecemealed into the learning process as a "side dish" to the white American "entrée" (hooks, 1992). Consequently, when non-white students embark on the educational process at PWIs, they are met with indifference because their perspective is not incorporated into the fabric of the university (Easley, 1993).

This is an example of a vague statement I was talking about. You can't make a good point without specifics, and this irritates me to no end. The United States alone has over 200 years worth of history. Would it have been too much of a problem to ask what specific event in history is so skewed towards only one point that only one type of class is available and this in and of itself prohibits the teaching of other classes?

Maybe I'm being ignorant here... but... WTF? There is a cultural perspective in teaching calculus? Solving integrals can be culturally biased?

I **** you not, someone finally spelled it out for me how math can be culturally bias. It's a big WTF moment. This is an example.

Anthony and his mom and dad decide to spend Fourth of July with the grandparents. They leave their home at 2:00pm and travel for three hours before arriving at the destination. The car averaged 60 mph. When they got there, the grandparents let Anthony swim in the pool before barbeque started. The swimming pool was 30 feet long, 15 feet wide, and 10 feet deep.

Solve for
1. The distance between the two homes
2. What time they arrived
3. The volume of the swimming pool


At this point, you're probably asking yourself, "where is this math problem culturally biased?". I'll spell it out for you.

1. Mom and Dad
- This is biased against single parent homes
2. Grandparents in separate housing
- In some cultures the grandparents are part of the immediate family/household
3. Fourth of July
- Not everybody celebrates this event
4. swimming pool
- Not everybody knows what a swimming pool is

Believe it or not, those are considered "barriers" to solving the math problem. IMO, that's crap. You have to really be reaching here to believe that.

A key component in comprehending African American culture is understanding how blacks generally fashion their cultural values and beliefs. Often, African Americans who attend PWIs are accused of self-segregating (Stewart, Russell, & Wright, 1997). However, what is seen as separation can be interpreted as a coping mechanism. African Americans tend to construct their social values more from a family or group orientation (Kimbrough, R. M., Molock, S. D., & Walton, K., 1996; Thompson & Fretz, 1991) than other ethnic groups.

Let's look at this statement in sequences here.

A key component in comprehending African American culture is understanding how blacks generally fashion their cultural values and beliefs.

It's sounding pretty good here. I'm anticipating a good argument.

African Americans who attend PWIs are accused of self-segregating (Stewart, Russell, & Wright, 1997).

Okay, I see this. Just check any food court on campus.

However, what is seen as separation can be interpreted as a coping mechanism. African Americans tend to construct their social values more from a family or group orientation (Kimbrough, R. M., Molock, S. D., & Walton, K., 1996; Thompson & Fretz, 1991) than other ethnic groups.

And this is where I thought there was going to be a good argument. Notice the lack of a contrast here. If African Americans draw their social values from family or group orientation, what is being implied here about other groups? Was it intentionally left out of the article? It still doesn't answer the question of self-segregation. Which leads to the big gaping hole before the following statement.

Hence, when black students enter a PWI which possesses an invalidating and hostile environment, some blacks resort to their social values and seek out other black students to create allies amidst opposition (Fleming, 1984). Thus, white students and staff assist in creating an atmosphere where feelings of alienation, marginalization, and isolation are common among blacks who then find it necessary to establish their own social networks (Allen, 1992; Nagasawa & Wong, 1999; Willie & McCord, 1972). These social outlets include black student unions, historically black fraternities and sororities, and other such organizations (Culbert, 1988; Kimbrough et al., 1996). The genesis of many of these black organizations stemmed from exclusion from the larger campus community (Williams, 1994).

Again, vague crap like this kills me. What is this hostile environment they're talking about? Are there still whites only bathrooms somewhere? Are white students giving black students the evil eye every time they walk into the book store? It does nothing to add to the discussion and how to solve the problem. Instead, it only serves to piss people off without really thinking about what they're pissed off about.

It's much easier to understand the divide between normal students and Greek life. You've got initiation rites like wearing a Confederate uniform (I can't remember which fraternity does this, but you can automatically rule out Farmhouse Fraternity). Then you've got financial barriers like due fees. Then you've got Greek specific events like "Greek Christian life and issues". I'm providing specific examples here of "barriers" between people.

Again, I think the first article was an ok read that should've been a hell of a lot more specific. The second article on the other hand was brilliant, especially the example of the student with the room mate.

You want a good article about cultural differences and the effects they have? Read this

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=0&cId=3155815

And yes folks, it's about video games. But one thing this article does that the article by the OP doesn't is that it addresses specifics.
 
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