ChemE engineering vs Med school problem, is a BS in cheme enough?

[StripedCheetah]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask

but by enough, I mean enough to succeed/money/live well off

I'm in my last semester as a senior majoring in cheme. I have a cumulative gpa of 2.64 and a major gpa of 2.90.

When I started college, I wanted to go to medicine and major in biology. My sister, who was majoring in english a year ahead of me, told me to major in cheme so that it would "enhance my thinking skills". I did that, and she switched over a year later, so we both take classes together, and are expected to get our BS together at the end of this semester.

But before that, in my freshman year, I screwed up cause of personal issues, and my gpa was crap. Great way to start off college, amirite? Really, I would've done bad regardless of my major, but I picked myself up in sophomore year. And in the summer of sophomore year, I took the MCAT, but scored a 27. I didn't feel ready, but my mom wasn't ok with me taking a year off, so it was kind of a pushed/rushed study.

Now I'm here about to graduate looking for a job. No luck so far, but I guess that's why I have to network better. But my mom is yelling at me to go to med school because she thinks that a bs in cheme isn't good enough compared to an MD or DO (is it for a DO?) I doubt I could get into a good school with my grades, but what's more annoying is that 2 cheme students in my class consider themselves pre-med, and my sister found out and yells "why don't you go into pre-med too?" (she doesn't know anything else about them, she just found this out from someone else in the class, and went off from there. Though I know one of those people have a low gpa, though I don't know how low).

Personally from the people I've networked with in the past, a bs in cheme is "not enough". One guy who has worked in big companies with a BS in cheme, saw how the industry "was run by business majors", and went to go get an mba. Another person I've talked with in another big company said that he "didn't want to spend years working up the ladder" so he got a phd to have a high position in the company.

I wouldn't mind going to grad school, though again with the grades, I don't know how I'd get into a good grad school. I''d probably talk with some professors about it, but my mom is like "oh if you're going to get a phd, why not spend the $ and years in med school instead?"

Well gee mom, maybe its cause I spent 4 years on cheme, which is its own profession, and I don't wanna waste all that knowledge and work. But then she just points to the two cheme students I mentioned earlier and uses that against me. Then again, I doubt I would remember everything in cheme. Like who the hell understands what fugacity is? Mostly software stuff is used to take care of thermo stuff anyway.

I dunno, maybe I'm wrong on some things, but I'm not exactly set on which path to take, and what I would have to do to take those paths.

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[medic86]

What is your question?

Do you even want to go to medical school?

 

[drjay16]

Are you asking people to convince you to go to med school?

 

[TheLionheart]

That GPA will severely hinder any attempt to get into medical school, regardless of the degree. Coupled with your below matriculant average MCAT and the outlook is even more poor.

Your mom and sister do not live your life. You do. If you want to go to medical school, you'll likely have to enroll in a potentially expensive post-bacc (search for threads on this) and retake your MCAT. And at this point, we haven't even seen what your extracurriculars/clinical experience looks like.

 

[aprimenumber]

I wouldn't mind going to grad school, though again with the grades, I don't know how I'd get into a good grad school. I''d probably talk with some professors about it, but my mom is like "oh if you're going to get a phd, why not spend the $ and years in med school instead?"

.

Ph.D graduate students are paid. Their living expenses are more or less compensated with a little bit left over from the department. Your mother has been misinformed about the nature of Ph.D programs. Having said that, your GPA is nowhere competitive enough for a Ph.D program.

If you can network/sell yourself effectively, there's no reason why you can't find a job that does require your college degree, it just may not necessarily be in engineering. A lot of engineering grads go into consulting, where the money's decent. If you're convinced you need another degree (and more debt), you could try to earn a Master's in ChemE, or find a Master's of Engineering Management program and apply to those.

I'm well-aware that ChemE is a far more challenging major than what most pre-meds pursue, but having said that, your GPA is simply far too low for medical school right now. If you want to attend medical school, you will want to retake your MCAT (with adequate preparation this time), find an opportunity to re-take your prereq classes (post-bacc), and aim to apply DO where they will replace your first pre-req grades with your retaken pre-req grades when they calculate GPA. Of course, that is, if you actually want to go to medical school. It doesn't sound like you really want to do it, from what you just posted.

 

[redpanda]

Financially, you're going to do fine working as a chemE. Getting a PhD in chemE is certainly not necessary for career advancement in many parts of the industry and you have to ask yourself whether having that PhD really opens up positions that you want (e.g. management - a level of hell in itself). Where I worked in industry, the middle management and up had PhDs, but this was a particularly unusual place compared to the rest of the industry (more academic). Maybe the PhD would open up a few more rungs on the scientific track of a few companies if you're not interested in management, but I'll warn you that what I've observed from the bottom about "high" positions in management involves a lot of politics, fiefdoms, unproductive initiatives, and buzzwords galore.

 

[The Buff OP]

tl;dr (it's the morning for me)

Since people seem to be confuse on what you are asking, I'll just answer your last question. A BS in ChemE is enough if you want to land a job and make a decent or really good salary. If you work for an oil and gas company in the downstream sector, then you will make the big bucks.

 

[beachside]

Alright, I'll address a few of your major points.

1) Even if you wanted to go to medical school, you would have a very tough time getting in with your GPA and MCAT scores. Without a few years of solid 4.0 academic work, say in a masters/PhD program or post-bacc, I doubt you'd have any shot at all of getting into an MD program. You could maybe get into a DO program, if you improved your MCAT score significantly and showed up upward trend in your GPA.

2) If you did go to medical school, it wouldn't be "wasted knowledge". What you've learned already is what economists call a "sunk cost". You don't use past expenditures of time to justify future decisions. I have far more knowledge in fields unrelated to medicine than you, and I still chose to pursue medicine, and will ultimately come out far better for it.

3) What is "enough" for you in terms of educational achievement depends on the type of job/salary you want, and how much you're willing to sacrifice to get there. Take a look at your options, consider them carefully, and then make a decision. Although, honestly, I don't even think you should be considering medical school right now. Your GPA just sucks too much. Perhaps you can revisit this desire a few years down the road, after you have other accomplishments.

4) It doesn't sound like you really want to go to medical school. So don't go to medical school. At least not yet.

 

[jqueb29]

I'm not quite sure what you're asking. If you're asking about getting into medical school, you have zero chance with your current GPA. Your only hope is a couple years' worth of grade replacement and then going for DO.

 

[StripedCheetah]

Financially, you're going to do fine working as a chemE. Getting a PhD in chemE is certainly not necessary for career advancement in many parts of the industry and you have to ask yourself whether having that PhD really opens up positions that you want (e.g. management - a level of hell in itself). Where I worked in industry, the middle management and up had PhDs, but this was a particularly unusual place compared to the rest of the industry (more academic). Maybe the PhD would open up a few more rungs on the scientific track of a few companies if you're not interested in management, but I'll warn you that what I've observed from the bottom about "high" positions in management involves a lot of politics, fiefdoms, unproductive initiatives, and buzzwords galore.

Did you have a Phd in cheme? Do you mind giving some more detail?

...I'm not being passive aggressive, am I?

 

[Chemking]

Perhaps I can share my own story which may relate to your situation. It may end up saving you a few of the years it took me to finally get focused and go for what I want.

I was a Biochemistry major in college and like your, had a few issues and lack of focus throughout my undergraduate career. My GPA wasn't hurting as badly as yours but was below the generally accepted ~3.5+ for an MD program. Due to my shortcomings during undergrad I completely lost all confidence I had for medical school, even though I had done a lot (EC-wise) to prepare for it. I only chose Biochemistry because it was the route I felt would best prepare me for med school, not because I loved lab research. Consequently, I didn't go into industry (which I was told was around $70,000+ for people coming out of college if they went to work for the right company...pharmaceutical probably?). I went into education instead, because teaching is something that I do very well.

Long story short, I got married and taught for 4 years. During that time, I decided to quit work and go back to school on scholarship and got a Masters and began working on my PhD. While in school, for my electives I took every advanced chemistry and biology course that was offered and even did lab research during the summers (my end game was to be qualified to teach at the junior college/college level). Two years had gone by before I actually stopped to look at what I had achieved...over 12 advanced science courses and my 4.0 graduate GPA was still going strong. What's my point? You may try pursuing a Master's degree just as an opportunity to show admission committees that your mind is back in the game, and you can now handle the grind of medical school - forget your 'mess ups' as an undergrad. At the least, you put yourself in a position to make a little more money if you do go into engineering with the degree you have now, which I consider a very good one. I suggest you focus on studying for the MCAT while working on your GPA and establishing a new class performance record. A 27 is a great start, but you'll need to nail it. The good news is you can do it, its all about how bad you want it.

Anyway, this wonderful woman I call my wife essentially told me to get my stuff together and do what she knows I always wanted to do - become a doctor, no matter what it takes. If you don't have that family support, motivate yourself! But I'm more driven and focused now...I'ver never been so excited about change before now. I know exactly what needs to be done and I hope to be posting this fall that I've been accepted into a MD program. My story may not apply to you, as not everything is the same. My intention is just to encourage you that a path to medical school can still be forged.....but when you're ready. I don't have aspirations to go to Harvard Medical School, I'm only applying to my state school, where I'm more familiar with the culture and what the admissions committee is looking for (I know, they come to my university and tell us every few weeks, lol).

 

[tiedyeddog]

You have a 2.6 GPA and a 27 on the MCAT? This solves your problems, you can't get into medical school so you shouldn't worry about if you should be going in the first place.

 

[TheLionheart]

Perhaps I can share my own story which may relate to your situation. It may end up saving you a few of the years it took me to finally get focused and go for what I want.

I was a Biochemistry major in college and like your, had a few issues and lack of focus throughout my undergraduate career. My GPA wasn't hurting as badly as yours but was below the generally accepted ~3.5+ for an MD program. Due to my shortcomings during undergrad I completely lost all confidence I had for medical school, even though I had done a lot (EC-wise) to prepare for it. I only chose Biochemistry because it was the route I felt would best prepare me for med school, not because I loved lab research. Consequently, I didn't go into industry (which I was told was around $70,000+ for people coming out of college if they went to work for the right company...pharmaceutical probably?). I went into education instead, because teaching is something that I do very well.

Long story short, I got married and taught for 4 years. During that time, I decided to quit work and go back to school on scholarship and got a Masters and began working on my PhD. While in school, for my electives I took every advanced chemistry and biology course that was offered and even did lab research during the summers (my end game was to be qualified to teach at the junior college/college level). Two years had gone by before I actually stopped to look at what I had achieved...over 12 advanced science courses and my 4.0 graduate GPA was still going strong. What's my point? You may try pursuing a Master's degree just as an opportunity to show admission committees that your mind is back in the game, and you can now handle the grind of medical school - forget your 'mess ups' as an undergrad. At the least, you put yourself in a position to make a little more money if you do go into engineering with the degree you have now, which I consider a very good one. I suggest you focus on studying for the MCAT while working on your GPA and establishing a new class performance record. A 27 is a great start, but you'll need to nail it. The good news is you can do it, its all about how bad you want it.

Anyway, this wonderful woman I call my wife essentially told me to get my stuff together and do what she knows I always wanted to do - become a doctor, no matter what it takes. If you don't have that family support, motivate yourself! But I'm more driven and focused now...I'ver never been so excited about change before now. I know exactly what needs to be done and I hope to be posting this fall that I've been accepted into a MD program. My story may not apply to you, as not everything is the same. My intention is just to encourage you that a path to medical school can still be forged.....but when you're ready. I don't have aspirations to go to Harvard Medical School, I'm only applying to my state school, where I'm more familiar with the culture and what the admissions committee is looking for (I know, they come to my university and tell us every few weeks, lol).

Applying to only your state school is a surefire way to be disappointed. Unless your state school is North Dakota, or you're planning on applying early decision and have very compelling reasons to do so, along with a great app.

Apply to more schools.

 

[redpanda]

Did you have a Phd in cheme? Do you mind giving some more detail?

...I'm not being passive aggressive, am I?

No, I don't. I worked in a department full of chemE PhDs and come from a family full of chemEs. I considered getting a PhD in my similar but related engineering field, but this was before I decided on medical school.

Some companies have what is termed a scientific track and a management track when it comes to mid-rank (aka not head of dept or higher) positions. You can choose either track, in general. There are a few companies which have a boner for PhDs and it becomes a de facto requirement to move into management into those departments. That being said, much of what makes a good or great manager has nothing to do with detailed technical knowledge and more to do with people skills, political acumen, and judgment, none of which are really things a PhD develops in you. I'm trying to tell you that a PhD isn't a big door opener in the world of chemical engineering in terms of the positions that one can advance into. That is the culture in engineering. In fact, at my dad's former firm, they used to jokingly call the PhDs "oh, Dr. so-and-so" as a joke.

 

[Lucca]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask

but by enough, I mean enough to succeed/money/live well off

I'm in my last semester as a senior majoring in cheme. I have a cumulative gpa of 2.64 and a major gpa of 2.90.

When I started college, I wanted to go to medicine and major in biology. My sister, who was majoring in english a year ahead of me, told me to major in cheme so that it would "enhance my thinking skills". I did that, and she switched over a year later, so we both take classes together, and are expected to get our BS together at the end of this semester.

But before that, in my freshman year, I screwed up cause of personal issues, and my gpa was crap. Great way to start off college, amirite? Really, I would've done bad regardless of my major, but I picked myself up in sophomore year. And in the summer of sophomore year, I took the MCAT, but scored a 27. I didn't feel ready, but my mom wasn't ok with me taking a year off, so it was kind of a pushed/rushed study.

Now I'm here about to graduate looking for a job. No luck so far, but I guess that's why I have to network better. But my mom is yelling at me to go to med school because she thinks that a bs in cheme isn't good enough compared to an MD or DO (is it for a DO?) I doubt I could get into a good school with my grades, but what's more annoying is that 2 cheme students in my class consider themselves pre-med, and my sister found out and yells "why don't you go into pre-med too?" (she doesn't know anything else about them, she just found this out from someone else in the class, and went off from there. Though I know one of those people have a low gpa, though I don't know how low).

Personally from the people I've networked with in the past, a bs in cheme is "not enough". One guy who has worked in big companies with a BS in cheme, saw how the industry "was run by business majors", and went to go get an mba. Another person I've talked with in another big company said that he "didn't want to spend years working up the ladder" so he got a phd to have a high position in the company.

I wouldn't mind going to grad school, though again with the grades, I don't know how I'd get into a good grad school. I''d probably talk with some professors about it, but my mom is like "oh if you're going to get a phd, why not spend the $ and years in med school instead?"

Well gee mom, maybe its cause I spent 4 years on cheme, which is its own profession, and I don't wanna waste all that knowledge and work. But then she just points to the two cheme students I mentioned earlier and uses that against me. Then again, I doubt I would remember everything in cheme. Like who the hell understands what fugacity is? Mostly software stuff is used to take care of thermo stuff anyway.

I dunno, maybe I'm wrong on some things, but I'm not exactly set on which path to take, and what I would have to do to take those paths.

I'll address the bolded in order.

A) Living a good life is not the same as succeeding is not the same as having money. Learn to differentiate between these three if you want to know what you actually want to do.

B) Your current GPA is too low to get into any medical school in the US.

C)Did you join ChemE just because your sister told you? Why didn't you do what you wanted to do in the first place?

D) MCAT is too low for US med school, again.

E) Why did you care about what your mom thinks about your career and education?

F) Did you network? Have you done any internships in the engineering industry? The energy sector? Do you have relevant research? Did you supplement your professional education with something other than class and career fairs?

G) Why did you, again, care about what your mom wants you to do with your life?

H) Why do you care about what your sister thinks?

I) Why do you continue to care about what your mom thinks?

J) What the hell does your mom know about those two people's lives that A) you don't know better and B) apply to your situation considering they are not you.

Overall - and I am not going to sugarcoat this but do not confuse my words with anger, or having anything against you personally - it seems to me that you have a huge maturity problem. You did not articulate what you want, why you did what you did (outside of being heavily influenced by your family members) nor have you communicated a personal desire to pursue medicine. Additionally, the efforts you have made to pursuing medicine, in your classes and in your MCAT study, were lazy, apathetic, or inadequate or all three.

My advice: Do everything you can to find a job in industry. Don't worry about "what is enough" or "good enough" and especially do not give a single thought to what your family members want you to do. You have some growing up to do. Perhaps making good money as an engineer will show you what success, "enough money" and "living well" mean to you rather than basing it entirely on a metric that you most likely have not had little enough or too much of to know what it actually means.

You should not get a PhD if you do not have any research experience or desire to perform scientific work for Academia or Industry.

You should not worry about getting other degrees or even an MBA until you know precisely what it is you want to do.

You should not worry about moving up in industry if you have not even entered industry. If you cannot even manage yourself you will not be able to manage other people and your managers will probably see this pretty clearly.

You should not worry about going into medical school because you are currently unable to given your academic record. If, after some soul searching and exposure to the clinical field, it turns out you legitimately want to pursue medicine then come back and you will be advised by the many members of SDN who have come back from poor academic records to become medical students.

 

[StripedCheetah]

I'll address the bolded in order.

A) Living a good life is not the same as succeeding is not the same as having money. Learn to differentiate between these three if you want to know what you actually want to do.

B) Your current GPA is too low to get into any medical school in the US.

C)Did you join ChemE just because your sister told you? Why didn't you do what you wanted to do in the first place?

D) MCAT is too low for US med school, again.

E) Why did you care about what your mom thinks about your career and education?

F) Did you network? Have you done any internships in the engineering industry? The energy sector? Do you have relevant research? Did you supplement your professional education with something other than class and career fairs?

G) Why did you, again, care about what your mom wants you to do with your life?

H) Why do you care about what your sister thinks?

I) Why do you continue to care about what your mom thinks?

J) What the hell does your mom know about those two people's lives that A) you don't know better and B) apply to your situation considering they are not you.

Overall - and I am not going to sugarcoat this but do not confuse my words with anger, or having anything against you personally - it seems to me that you have a huge maturity problem. You did not articulate what you want, why you did what you did (outside of being heavily influenced by your family members) nor have you communicated a personal desire to pursue medicine. Additionally, the efforts you have made to pursuing medicine, in your classes and in your MCAT study, were lazy, apathetic, or inadequate or all three.

My advice: Do everything you can to find a job in industry. Don't worry about "what is enough" or "good enough" and especially do not give a single thought to what your family members want you to do. You have some growing up to do. Perhaps making good money as an engineer will show you what success, "enough money" and "living well" mean to you rather than basing it entirely on a metric that you most likely have not had little enough or too much of to know what it actually means.

You should not get a PhD if you do not have any research experience or desire to perform scientific work for Academia or Industry.

You should not worry about getting other degrees or even an MBA until you know precisely what it is you want to do.

You should not worry about moving up in industry if you have not even entered industry. If you cannot even manage yourself you will not be able to manage other people and your managers will probably see this pretty clearly.

You should not worry about going into medical school because you are currently unable to given your academic record. If, after some soul searching and exposure to the clinical field, it turns out you legitimately want to pursue medicine then come back and you will be advised by the many members of SDN who have come back from poor academic records to become medical students.

Thanks for replying, and sorry, I get that my OP is confusing, but I just didn't know how to organize my thoughts, cause it was a recent argument and all.

A) For me, living a good life is having good money and succeeding. I like to do other things in my life like spend time with family + friends, do activities and more, but if I didn't like to work to get money, or care about money, I'd just quit everything and work at mcdonalds.

B) I had personal issues for my gpa, like its hard for me to get jobs as a cheme because its low as well. I found that reference letters help, I don't know about med school, but what about med schools outside the us? Or post-bacc programs?

C) I joined cheme cause I thought it would give me an advantage over other premed biology majors. Though as I said in my op, it didn't matter what major I was in, I would've done bad anyway.

D) Mcat retake? Would a high mcat score help US applications?

E) Because she guilt trips me and is stubborn to deal with. See, my dad died when I was 16, and it sucked, cause it was sudden and I wasn't even in town the night it happened, so no goodbyes for me. My dad was a physical therapist, so I felt that I should follow his path and honor him by being in the medical field like him. My mom felt the same, but at the time, I felt really lonely and too depressed to do anything. There was a side issue with a girl that I wanted to be closer with because of my loneliness, but that was stupid. Anyway, this depression and distraction severely hindered my academic performance in freshman year. Got kicked out of the engineering school with a 1.7 gpa, but I wrote a letter of appeal stating what I wrote, but with more detail. The school accepted me back in, and then the dean congratulated me when I did better in my sophomore year. I took the mcats in the summer, but didn't feel like I was ready/had enough time to study. My mom didn't believe me, but I felt let down after I saw my 27, so I thought that med school wasn't gonna happen for me. I didn't tell my mom this until recently, she still thought I was gonna go to med school, and then used my dads death as a guilt thing against me.

F) I've been in a co-op since this summer for a electrochemical testing company. It's not directly cheme related, but I've noticed employers are more concerned with the skills/challenges I've developed/encountered even if its not cheme related. I have been doing research at my school for about a year now, it involves synaptosomes and understanding their physiology. Before I took the mcats, I shadowed my general physician for about a month and a half, I took notes in a journal, and talked to him about different professions in the medical field.

See, I know I wrote it as if my mom is making me a victim of guilt trip, but maybe she's right. From other chemes I've talked to, a BS is not enough, business people run engineering industries, and people in those positions often have mbas or phds in engineering fields. My dad worked hard, but he also told me to work smart. I've learned that you don't succeed in industry just by working hard, you have to be more personable, resourceful, and more educated. And what also makes me undecided on what to do is how the salaries between medicine and engineering compare? Because I look at what my dad left me as a physical therapist, and a haunting feeling I can't get rid of in the back of my head asks "can I afford this with my education? Will my family be well off if something were to happen to me? What is the best option I can take to make my family prosper?"

 

[Enginerd2016]

My perspective, as someone working as an engineer right now.
Please stop saying a BS isn't enough (it is really annoying). To get into med school a BS is enough with high grades, adequate MCAT (usually above a 30 for those who get accepted) and great letters of recommendation.

Have you done any research about what it takes to get into medical school? Average GPA of accepted students? MCAT scores? Seem like you are a bit oblivious.

As for why you don't have a job, I guess it's because you aren't looking hard enough or looking in the right places. I know plenty of people with similar GPA's who got jobs just fine with a ChemE degree, even some with lower GPAs.

 

[fugacitybrah]

.

 

[touchpause13]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask

but by enough, I mean enough to succeed/money/live well off

I'm in my last semester as a senior majoring in cheme. I have a cumulative gpa of 2.64 and a major gpa of 2.90.

When I started college, I wanted to go to medicine and major in biology. My sister, who was majoring in english a year ahead of me, told me to major in cheme so that it would "enhance my thinking skills". I did that, and she switched over a year later, so we both take classes together, and are expected to get our BS together at the end of this semester.

But before that, in my freshman year, I screwed up cause of personal issues, and my gpa was crap. Great way to start off college, amirite? Really, I would've done bad regardless of my major, but I picked myself up in sophomore year. And in the summer of sophomore year, I took the MCAT, but scored a 27. I didn't feel ready, but my mom wasn't ok with me taking a year off, so it was kind of a pushed/rushed study.

Now I'm here about to graduate looking for a job. No luck so far, but I guess that's why I have to network better. But my mom is yelling at me to go to med school because she thinks that a bs in cheme isn't good enough compared to an MD or DO (is it for a DO?) I doubt I could get into a good school with my grades, but what's more annoying is that 2 cheme students in my class consider themselves pre-med, and my sister found out and yells "why don't you go into pre-med too?" (she doesn't know anything else about them, she just found this out from someone else in the class, and went off from there. Though I know one of those people have a low gpa, though I don't know how low).

Personally from the people I've networked with in the past, a bs in cheme is "not enough". One guy who has worked in big companies with a BS in cheme, saw how the industry "was run by business majors", and went to go get an mba. Another person I've talked with in another big company said that he "didn't want to spend years working up the ladder" so he got a phd to have a high position in the company.

I wouldn't mind going to grad school, though again with the grades, I don't know how I'd get into a good grad school. I''d probably talk with some professors about it, but my mom is like "oh if you're going to get a phd, why not spend the $ and years in med school instead?"

Well gee mom, maybe its cause I spent 4 years on cheme, which is its own profession, and I don't wanna waste all that knowledge and work. But then she just points to the two cheme students I mentioned earlier and uses that against me. Then again, I doubt I would remember everything in cheme. Like who the hell understands what fugacity is? Mostly software stuff is used to take care of thermo stuff anyway.

I dunno, maybe I'm wrong on some things, but I'm not exactly set on which path to take, and what I would have to do to take those paths.

Mr DrTP here,
I'm a Chem E working full time

Anything more than a BS in chem E is a waste of your time, the ROI is just not worth getting a masters or anything beyond that. Starting salaries should be around 63,000 maybe a little higher now and they do not require more than a BS. In fact I would find a PhD overqualified for working in industry and they would rather higher a BS for cheaper than waste time on the PhD. The masters your not going to get a pay increase for the exact same reason.

companies hire engineers to solve problems, they don't really care if you are a chemE or ME, .... yea they do care if your civil.....but your not so don't worry about that.

you won't need to remember all the info from undergrad in the field but you will need to understand the concepts, you will apply those concepts to making the best choices you can. It really depends on the niche you fill for the company. I work with project engineers that don't really get into the detail, I work with alot that end up as supervisors and I myself am a best practice engineer and enjoy doing the weird math. What I am trying to say is you can make the degree what you want (after putting in your first two years of grunt entry level job)

I joke with my wife that the NPV doesn't break even till year 18 after college graduation, so if your going to go through all of that to be a MD or DO you better enjoy it.

 

[Roxas]

Mr DrTP here,
I'm a Chem E working full time

Anything more than a BS in chem E is a waste of your time, the ROI is just not worth getting a masters or anything beyond that. Starting salaries should be around 63,000 maybe a little higher now and they do not require more than a BS. In fact I would find a PhD overqualified for working in industry and they would rather higher a BS for cheaper than waste time on the PhD. The masters your not going to get a pay increase for the exact same reason.

companies hire engineers to solve problems, they don't really care if you are a chemE or ME, .... yea they do care if your civil.....but your not so don't worry about that.

you won't need to remember all the info from undergrad in the field but you will need to understand the concepts, you will apply those concepts to making the best choices you can. It really depends on the niche you fill for the company. I work with project engineers that don't really get into the detail, I work with alot that end up as supervisors and I myself am a best practice engineer and enjoy doing the weird math. What I am trying to say is you can make the degree what you want (after putting in your first two years of grunt entry level job)

I joke with my wife that the NPV doesn't break even till year 18 after college graduation, so if your going to go through all of that to be a MD or DO you better enjoy it.

Nice of you to join us Mr. TP

 

[NicMouse64]

I think a lot also depends on where OP got his engineering degree. I know that some schools (techs, S&T's, purdue, etc.) all have nearly 100% job placement rates. The school I go to is a top engineering school and there are always companies practically begging engineers to join because they are in short supply. The starting salaries for some of these positions (dupont, Marathon, etc.) can be 90,000$+. If he wants money rather than an enjoyable, rewarding career: he probably should stay in engineering.

 

[GreenDuck12]

A) For me, living a good life is having good money and succeeding. I like to do other things in my life like spend time with family + friends, do activities and more, but if I didn't like to work to get money, or care about money, I'd just quit everything and work at mcdonalds.

-There are plenty of careers that you can have where you will find a work/life balance. Check the forums and talk to physicians about whether or not medicine is one of them.

B) I had personal issues for my gpa, like its hard for me to get jobs as a cheme because its low as well. I found that reference letters help, I don't know about med school, but what about med schools outside the us? Or post-bacc programs?

-Attending medical schools outside of the US will make it difficult to gain admission to residency programs in the US. The number of medical school graduates is rising and unfortunately the number of residency positions is not keeping up. This means that every year some med school graduates do not get placed in a residency program and without a residency cannot be a practicing physician.

-Post-bacc programs could help but they would not significantly raise your cumulative GPA for MD programs. DO programs allow you to retake classes and replace a low grade with a higher one. Provided you retake enough of your lower grade classes and do well, this could substantially raise your GPA, though it may take quite a bit of coursework depending on your grades (few Fs and Ds are easier to cancel out than a whole bunch of Cs"

C) I joined cheme cause I thought it would give me an advantage over other premed biology majors. Though as I said in my op, it didn't matter what major I was in, I would've done bad anyway.

-In med school, it probably will not help. But an engineering degree of any kind is in demand. While your GPA is low, you need to highlight the skills that you gained that will be valuable to employers. You may not get offers from the highest rank firms employing chemical engineers at first, but you could develop skills to allow you rise in the industry.

D) Mcat retake? Would a high mcat score help US applications?

- Yes, but your cumulative GPA is too low to be a competitive. You would need to do grade repair, improve your MCAT score, and apply to DO programs.

E) Because she guilt trips me and is stubborn to deal with. See, my dad died when I was 16, and it sucked, cause it was sudden and I wasn't even in town the night it happened, so no goodbyes for me. My dad was a physical therapist, so I felt that I should follow his path and honor him by being in the medical field like him. My mom felt the same, but at the time, I felt really lonely and too depressed to do anything. There was a side issue with a girl that I wanted to be closer with because of my loneliness, but that was stupid. Anyway, this depression and distraction severely hindered my academic performance in freshman year. Got kicked out of the engineering school with a 1.7 gpa, but I wrote a letter of appeal stating what I wrote, but with more detail. The school accepted me back in, and then the dean congratulated me when I did better in my sophomore year. I took the mcats in the summer, but didn't feel like I was ready/had enough time to study. My mom didn't believe me, but I felt let down after I saw my 27, so I thought that med school wasn't gonna happen for me. I didn't tell my mom this until recently, she still thought I was gonna go to med school, and then used my dads death as a guilt thing against me.

F) I've been in a co-op since this summer for a electrochemical testing company. It's not directly cheme related, but I've noticed employers are more concerned with the skills/challenges I've developed/encountered even if its not cheme related. I have been doing research at my school for about a year now, it involves synaptosomes and understanding their physiology. Before I took the mcats, I shadowed my general physician for about a month and a half, I took notes in a journal, and talked to him about different professions in the medical field.

See, I know I wrote it as if my mom is making me a victim of guilt trip, but maybe she's right. From other chemes I've talked to, a BS is not enough, business people run engineering industries, and people in those positions often have mbas or phds in engineering fields. My dad worked hard, but he also told me to work smart. I've learned that you don't succeed in industry just by working hard, you have to be more personable, resourceful, and more educated. And what also makes me undecided on what to do is how the salaries between medicine and engineering compare? Because I look at what my dad left me as a physical therapist, and a haunting feeling I can't get rid of in the back of my head asks "can I afford this with my education? Will my family be well off if something were to happen to me? What is the best option I can take to make my family prosper?

- It is perfectly alright not to have the highest salary starting out. Focus on gaining employment at a place where you can develop the skills that will make you a more attractive hire later on in your career. Your GPA is not a gold star on your resume, and this will not change, but after a few years of work experience it will not matter. What will matter is how good of an employee you are and what skills you can bring to a company. Having a good work ethic, being dependable, and improving your skill set will open doors wherever your career will take you. Don't be afraid to be the guy putting in a 60 hour week starting out. You start to develop a reputation at any place of employment that will follow you throughout your career. Again, the more skills you have the more valuable you will be and the higher you will be paid. Best of luck.

 

[StripedCheetah]

A) For me, living a good life is having good money and succeeding. I like to do other things in my life like spend time with family + friends, do activities and more, but if I didn't like to work to get money, or care about money, I'd just quit everything and work at mcdonalds.

-There are plenty of careers that you can have where you will find a work/life balance. Check the forums and talk to physicians about whether or not medicine is one of them.

B) I had personal issues for my gpa, like its hard for me to get jobs as a cheme because its low as well. I found that reference letters help, I don't know about med school, but what about med schools outside the us? Or post-bacc programs?

-Attending medical schools outside of the US will make it difficult to gain admission to residency programs in the US. The number of medical school graduates is rising and unfortunately the number of residency positions is not keeping up. This means that every year some med school graduates do not get placed in a residency program and without a residency cannot be a practicing physician.

-Post-bacc programs could help but they would not significantly raise your cumulative GPA for MD programs. DO programs allow you to retake classes and replace a low grade with a higher one. Provided you retake enough of your lower grade classes and do well, this could substantially raise your GPA, though it may take quite a bit of coursework depending on your grades (few Fs and Ds are easier to cancel out than a whole bunch of Cs"

C) I joined cheme cause I thought it would give me an advantage over other premed biology majors. Though as I said in my op, it didn't matter what major I was in, I would've done bad anyway.

-In med school, it probably will not help. But an engineering degree of any kind is in demand. While your GPA is low, you need to highlight the skills that you gained that will be valuable to employers. You may not get offers from the highest rank firms employing chemical engineers at first, but you could develop skills to allow you rise in the industry.

D) Mcat retake? Would a high mcat score help US applications?

- Yes, but your cumulative GPA is too low to be a competitive. You would need to do grade repair, improve your MCAT score, and apply to DO programs.

E) Because she guilt trips me and is stubborn to deal with. See, my dad died when I was 16, and it sucked, cause it was sudden and I wasn't even in town the night it happened, so no goodbyes for me. My dad was a physical therapist, so I felt that I should follow his path and honor him by being in the medical field like him. My mom felt the same, but at the time, I felt really lonely and too depressed to do anything. There was a side issue with a girl that I wanted to be closer with because of my loneliness, but that was stupid. Anyway, this depression and distraction severely hindered my academic performance in freshman year. Got kicked out of the engineering school with a 1.7 gpa, but I wrote a letter of appeal stating what I wrote, but with more detail. The school accepted me back in, and then the dean congratulated me when I did better in my sophomore year. I took the mcats in the summer, but didn't feel like I was ready/had enough time to study. My mom didn't believe me, but I felt let down after I saw my 27, so I thought that med school wasn't gonna happen for me. I didn't tell my mom this until recently, she still thought I was gonna go to med school, and then used my dads death as a guilt thing against me.

F) I've been in a co-op since this summer for a electrochemical testing company. It's not directly cheme related, but I've noticed employers are more concerned with the skills/challenges I've developed/encountered even if its not cheme related. I have been doing research at my school for about a year now, it involves synaptosomes and understanding their physiology. Before I took the mcats, I shadowed my general physician for about a month and a half, I took notes in a journal, and talked to him about different professions in the medical field.

See, I know I wrote it as if my mom is making me a victim of guilt trip, but maybe she's right. From other chemes I've talked to, a BS is not enough, business people run engineering industries, and people in those positions often have mbas or phds in engineering fields. My dad worked hard, but he also told me to work smart. I've learned that you don't succeed in industry just by working hard, you have to be more personable, resourceful, and more educated. And what also makes me undecided on what to do is how the salaries between medicine and engineering compare? Because I look at what my dad left me as a physical therapist, and a haunting feeling I can't get rid of in the back of my head asks "can I afford this with my education? Will my family be well off if something were to happen to me? What is the best option I can take to make my family prosper?

- It is perfectly alright not to have the highest salary starting out. Focus on gaining employment at a place where you can develop the skills that will make you a more attractive hire later on in your career. Your GPA is not a gold star on your resume, and this will not change, but after a few years of work experience it will not matter. What will matter is how good of an employee you are and what skills you can bring to a company. Having a good work ethic, being dependable, and improving your skill set will open doors wherever your career will take you. Don't be afraid to be the guy putting in a 60 hour week starting out. You start to develop a reputation at any place of employment that will follow you throughout your career. Again, the more skills you have the more valuable you will be and the higher you will be paid. Best of luck.

THE GREEN BURNS MY EYES!!!

But seriously, what I'm more worried about is "I look at what my dad left me as a physical therapist, and a haunting feeling I can't get rid of in the back of my head asks "can I afford this with my education? Will my family be well off if something were to happen to me? What is the best option I can take to make my family prosper?"

I'm not saying I wanna make big $ on an entry level position fresh out of college, but I feel conflicted on what path will be better for me. People in this thread have contradicted each other on the value of a phd in cheme industry. Same thing with the people I've talked to in real life. Do I graduate with a bs and continue to work that way? OR do I go post-bacc and consider DO? Would a DO even be better than a BS in cheme?

 

[StripedCheetah]

As a ChE pursing medicine I can give you a few insights:

1) Your gpa is important when getting your first job as an engr. But after that experience trumps grades.
2) Fugacity is my favorite concept, I'm offended . Btw you take the classes to improve your problem solving skills to prepare you for the industry. Even if most things will be done with software you should keep the mentality that what you learned is important. While it may seem like what you do as an engr does not have a direct impact on people's lives --it is important to realize the responsibility that it entails. If you ultimately become an engineer --be proud of what you do and take it seriously.

With whatever you chose they both come with their own obstacles. But in my opinion engr would be the choice with the least resistance. While it may be hard to get your first job --once you get past that hump you can get the ball rolling and start hopefully moving up the latter. You are right to think that later on you'd have to get into administrative positions to move up and maybe that is when an MBA is useful. But at this point I think focus more on getting a job first as an MBA would not help getting into
pure entry level ChE positions. It is experience and the skills you develop as you work that help you move up --not how high of a degree you have. A PhD would be a complete waste of time and money unless you want to get into research work. If it helps I know a couple of people that were able to get a decent paying job. They didn't have the grades but what they did have was good social skills and leadership capabilities. Apply broadly and not just in your state. Once you get settled I promise you it will get easier.

If you decide to pursue medicine there would be a lot of things you have to deal with and even afterwards admission to a school is not guaranteed. You would have to find a way (either masters program or postbac) to raise your gpa. Retake MCAT and aim high. Get experiences that show you have a passion for this field. And even after all this nothing is guaranteed.

You graduated college already. You have the means to support yourself once you get a job. Don't let your family decide or steer choices that will have a big impact on your OWN individual life. From reading your post it seems that you don't have interest in the field. So take what I say with a grain of salt. List out the pros/cons of each decision --we can only provide our own perspective. You know yourself best and what you are capable of.

So I have to ask, if you're a cheme, what made you decide to pursue medicine?

 

[Enginerd2016]

WHAT DO YOU WANT! We can't make up your mind for you.

 

[Eppur Si Muove]

I really don't see med school as a legit option at this point and honestly it doesn't seem like you really want to go anyway. Even though you are struggling to find a job I believe that you should keep searching and applying, in the meantime try to gain some experience or try to find an internship.