Chemo Hoods

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pharmwannebe2

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Hi....I was just curious about chemo hoods. I know they are horizontal instead of vertical. Is there any special precautions while making chemo? I work in a hospital that has a chemo room located in a satellite so I don't actually know the rules regarding them.

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The hospital I'm at is exactly the opposite. We have horizontal hoods for the regular stuff and vertical hoods for chemo.

opps sorry i meant what you said. no chemo hoods can be horizontal that isn't allowed.
 
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The hospital I'm at is exactly the opposite. We have horizontal hoods for the regular stuff and vertical hoods for chemo.

ps: did you leave Cosco? how do you like the hospital world?
 
Yeah, got it backwards. Chemo hoods have vertical flow, designed to direct air away from the user and out of the room (there are varying ways that they do this). They'll also have a glass partition in the front with about 6 inches or so of free space to insert your hands.

While preparing chemo, you'll typically be completely gloved and gowned with a facemask, which may or may not be what you would typically wear in a sterile room. There are also a large amount of techniques for sterile and safe manufacturing that differ from normal sterile techniques, but there's too much to cover in a single post.
 
opps sorry i meant what you said. no chemo hoods can be horizontal that isn't allowed.

Lots of precautions for Chemo prep... USP797 describes the precautions one should take - but it is a pretty lengthy read.

This is a pretty good article from pharmabiz that breaks down chemo prep and precautions... LINK
 
so sad. this happened to her probably because of the chem exposure. Too bad this was a time before mandatory masks/gowns.
masks are not chemo proof and only certain gowns are.
 
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I see you have no nurses at your hospital...

Still - it's way better than retail.

Naw, we have nurses and other people that come down to the pharmacy all the time but they're usually pretty nice. The hospital I'm at right now, usually has like 6 pharmacists, 2 messengers, 2 techs, the DOP, the IT pharmacist, secretary, the 2 interns, and 2 clinical pharmacists working at the same time.

Night, I don't know, it's probably less people. Only time the nurses can be annoying is when the Pyxis machine in the emergency room decides to break down.

I've been at 2 hospitals so far. The DOP at my current hospital seems a lot more wired and crazy. Everyone is on edge right now because apparently 60 tablets of Oxycontin are missing.
 
9 pharmacists and 4 techs?

well thats really properly staffed...

please note sarcasm.
 
and nurses come down to the pharmacy all the time? thats really the best use of their time.

please note sarcasm again
 
<p>and this why pharmacist who understand efficient inpatient pharmacy operation will always be valuable.</p>
 
9 pharmacists and 4 techs?

well thats really properly staffed...

please note sarcasm.

Let's see, we have:

2 pharmacists who are doing order entry all day.
1 pharmacist who is making IVs all day
1 pharmacist who is making chemo all day
1 pharmacist who is verifying IVs all day
2 clinical pharmacists who are on the floors all day
One pharmacy messenger
Tech who labels stuff all day
2 Interns who are standing around asking for stuff to do all day.

Thankfully, we get to use the afternoon for our projects.
 
Let's see, we have:

2 pharmacists who are doing order entry all day.
1 pharmacist who is making IVs all day
1 pharmacist who is making chemo all day
1 pharmacist who is verifying IVs all day
2 clinical pharmacists who are on the floors all day
One pharmacy messenger
Tech who labels stuff all day
2 Interns who are standing around asking for stuff to do all day.

Thankfully, we get to use the afternoon for our projects.

wtf your pharmacists make IVs!?!??!
 
Sparda,

Answer some of these questions.

How big is your hospital? how many licensed beds. What is the average daily census?

How many ICU/CCU patients?

Is the pharmacy opened 24 hours per day?

What exactly do those 2 clinical pharmacists do?

Then I'll give you the ideas on how to save a million bucks.
 
Sparda,

Answer some of these questions.

How big is your hospital? how many licensed beds. What is the average daily census? 291 beds

How many ICU/CCU patients? From what I've seen, the ICU has enough room for about 30 patients, I can double check.

Is the pharmacy opened 24 hours per day? Yes

What exactly do those 2 clinical pharmacists do? I'll need to find out more about this. They mainly work in the ICU/CCU monitoring patients. The physicians here are very reluctant in taking advice from the pharmacists. This hospital is an "attending based" hospital. There are no residents, fellows, or medical students at this hospital.

Then I'll give you the ideas on how to save a million bucks.

It's Lawrence Hospital in Westchester County. It's part of the NY Presbyterian family and an affiliate of Columbia. They do a lot of oncology care in this hospital. There is a state of the art maternity ward that was opened recently, sleep center, and joint replacement center. There are about 400 physicians, and 88% of them are board certified.
 
Ok,

Without knowing your average daily and ICU census, I can't make an assessment of correct pharmacist staffing. But at 35,000ER visits per year, you're not the busiest hospital on the block.

But,

If you don't have at least 1:1 pharmacist vs. tech ratio, then the department is not efficient... 1:2 is even better. You guys are more like 2:1... super inefficient.

Get rid of those pharmacists preparing IVs and Chemo. You don't need a full time pharmacist checking IV's all day...checking IV should take less than an hour per day if IV's are properly batched and prepared accordingly.

Batching IV means preparing typically used IVs day before.. and/or before it's needed...batching allows for a quick preparation. Then techs can label them at once... takes no time..and at 291 beds...you don't need that many IVs.

You got 3 pharmacists ($150,000 per year including benefits) doing $40,000 per year tech work. Your DOP is a dummy and probably should be demoted or fired and replaced...or get properly trained.

I don't want to believe your clinical pharmacists on the floor are up there making clinical rounds...I will give the benefit of the doubt and say they're probably processing orders while making interventions. What we call decentralized hybrid - clinical pharmacist. So if you have 2 decentralized pharmacists, then your 2 pharmacists downstairs can process orders for the rest of the hospital and still check the IVs.

You definitely need more techs to fill pyxis, prepare IVs etc. And the nurses should not have to come down to the pharmacy for any reason...that tells me that your tech support is short and the medications are not getting delivered efficiently.

Thank god typical DOPs run their department piss poor... job security for my industry.
 
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Ok,

Without knowing your average daily and ICU census, I can't make an assessment of correct pharmacist staffing. But at 35,000ER visits per year, you're not the busiest hospital on the block.

But,

If you don't have at least 1:1 pharmacist vs. tech ratio, then the department is not efficient... 1:2 is even better. You guys are more like 2:1... super inefficient.

Get rid of those pharmacists preparing IVs and Chemo. You don't need a full time pharmacist checking IV's all day...checking IV should take less than an hour per day if IV's are properly batched and prepared accordingly.

Batching IV means preparing typically used IVs day before.. and/or before it's needed...batching allows for a quick preparation. Then techs can label them at once... takes no time..and at 291 beds...you don't need that many IVs.

You got 3 pharmacists ($150,000 per year including benefits) doing $40,000 per year tech work. Your DOP is a dummy and probably should be demoted or fired and replaced...or get properly trained.

I don't want to believe your clinical pharmacists on the floor are up there making clinical rounds...I will give the benefit of the doubt and say they're probably processing orders while making interventions. What we call decentralized hybrid - clinical pharmacist. So if you have 2 decentralized pharmacists, then your 2 pharmacists downstairs can process orders for the rest of the hospital and still check the IVs.

You definitely need more techs to fill pyxis, prepare IVs etc. And the nurses should not have to come down to the pharmacy for any reason...that tells me that your tech support is short and the medications are not getting delivered efficiently.

Thank god typical DOPs run their department piss poor... job security for my industry.

Oh no, deliveries are done pretty well. EVERYTHING is in the Pyxis. So when Pyxis goes down, all hell breaks loose.
 
somebody has to fill the pyxis.

and then why are nurses constantly coming down to the pharmacy?
 
And no, you do not have "EVERYTHING" in Pyxis... example...IV's and drips aren't in Pyxis...and first doses have to be made and delivered. Also, many topicals are not kept in Pyxis. Pyxis can't possibly have 100% of the drugs.. and if you have 95%... you're doing well.

Also, who does the daily orders? Who unpacks and puts up the orders? Who unit doses? How many times are Pyxis filled per day?
 
Yeah...I've never seen more RPHs than techs anywhere.

On the other side of the spectrum, my old hospital was 1:4 ratio on the weekends....census of 160...12 ICU beds...with outpatient.

Of course, every person in the industry I've talked to told me that this is insane and I shouldn't have even risked my license working a single day in that environment...but I was a new grad, the hell did I know...

Z, have you guys ever done an efficiency survey where the number of pharmacists to beds becomes the efficiency sweet spot?
 
1:4 would be illegal dude..

Yes, there's a way to measure staffing efficiency. It involves hours paid per hospital adjusted patient days.
 
That makes my brain hurt. And why hours paid? Why wouldn't you use net labor cost per adjusted patient days?

Because, every region, every hospital, and every personnel get paid different hence have different labor cost.

But "hours Paid" is a constant number and not a variable.
 
Because, every region, every hospital, and every personnel get paid different hence have different labor cost.

But "hours Paid" is a constant number and not a variable.

So then you let individuals reserve the right to be overpaid, even if their efficiency doesn't warrant it?
 
So then you let individuals reserve the right to be overpaid, even if their efficiency doesn't warrant it?

y'know... all these years in the hospital, I can't say I saw a salary of any pharmacist that was out of line being too high. I have seen some low salaries but that's rare too. Believe it or not, typical HR does a good job of doing the regional salary survey..now, what range they want the hospital at is another story.

25%, 50%, or 75%..

Actually, my old pharmacy operations financial report has several different salary and staffing benchmark.... like $ per patient days, FTE per admission/discharge, hours paid per PD etc... what's important is to trend and compare to previous years data more so than making a comparison another facility...since different hospitals have different levels of service.

Staffing benchmark is one area everyone struggles with...because typical DOP really has no clue what others are doing and ASHP has not done a very good job to lay out the benchmark criteria...they've done some but it's been fairly ineffective.

I think retail sector does a better job of knowing how to staff per volume (# of scripts)...then again, one retail to another is comparing apples to apples...not much so in hospitals.
 
At night we have 1 RPh to 6 techs. During the day we have 6 RPhs to 4 techs.

I've been in to each BOP meeting when the topic comes up of setting a max ratio; we obviously don't have one yet.

Your industry is an aberration.
 
OP, for chemo, it is a good idea to use negative pressure when pulling the drug out of the vial. Dont blow air into a chemo vial.....like with other drugs when they teach you in lab.

I use negative pressure all the time because I like the technique better. I blow a little air into regular vials but just enough to get some of the pressure out.
 
Damn!

During the day we have 5 techs- 2 in the IV room, 1 pyxis refill person, 2 "unit dose" (one does hourly deliveries/load pyxis with newly ordered meds and one that compounds the oral solutions/suspensions and does floor stocks). For pharmacists- 2 clinical transplant specialists, 2 OR (6am and 11am shifts), 1 ICU, 1 cardiology, 1 that does transplant and ortho floor, 1 for general surgery, 2 hem/onc (7am and 11am shifts), and 1 that is downstairs for everything else (verifies orders for other areas and checks IVs and chemo and answers the phones). We have CPOE. Afternoon is 5 techs (same positions) and usually 3 pharmacists to verify orders for the whole hospital and do TPNs, night is 2 pharmacists and 1 tech. 220 bed hospital. We are a well oiled machine. We put nicardipine, phenylephrine, epi, dobutamine, esmolol, K riders, and heparins in the pyxis and we have standard meds for each area (like cellcept for transplant floors). We have people coming over all the time from urology and cath lab, ct, respiratory. It's like grand central station man.
 
OP, for chemo, it is a good idea to use negative pressure when pulling the drug out of the vial. Dont blow air into a chemo vial.....like with other drugs when they teach you in lab.

I use negative pressure all the time because I like the technique better. I blow a little air into regular vials but just enough to get some of the pressure out.
this is standard procedure no matter where u are
 
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