Christmas WW Sign Ups & Game Thread

[ZooVetHopeful]

Hey wolves why didn't you kill ZVH early in the game when she outed herself to our entire group including Zen? Seemed an obvious target.

Also WZ, what was the deal with KSMI. You implied something more about her death but I never saw anything?

Or why didn't you convert me and have a wolf assassin?

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[StartingoverVet]

This is what happened to the wolves this game

I got to give props to Lupin again!
She was suspicious of LIS from day 1.
She was suspicious of MJ for a while, just didn't want to pull the trigger. (html was also suspicious of him for a while).
She pushed to kill Jam near the end (although I pretty much wanted to lynch Jam from the start... set off my wolfdar)

 

[ZooVetHopeful]

Agreed, Lupin was the key. Also, STL identifying Ksmi so early in the game.

 

[WildZoo]

Agreed, Lupin was the key. Also, STL identifying Ksmi so early in the game.

Oh other notes about ksmi: she did not count towards wolf numbers although she would win with the wolves. She also was not in communication with them and they didn't know who she was, but she knew who they were.

 

[WildZoo]

She was also given the option to vote in private which would have made STL's job of finding her more difficult (he got who she voted for and who she visited each night), but she chose not to do so.

And there were no conversions at all in the game.

 

[SummerTheLynx]

Thanks everyone - especially HTML, Lupin and SOV. I didn't think I was being effective this game. HTMLs resurrection turned that around. Thanks to whoever did that (did we ever find out how that happened?) And my apologies to the entire village for my arbitrary banishment of HTML earlier in the game - serious Noob error. Go Villagers!

Your welcome

 

[WildZoo]

Your welcome

*You're

 

[lhmhtd]

Yea lupin was on point the entire game. I started to get mixed up at the end having pm's w lupin, swings, and zvh. I'm glad I didn't royally screw that up somehow.
Great game WZ!

 

[brightimpressio]

Thanks, WZ!

 

[Lupin21]

This is what happened to the wolves this game

I got to give props to Lupin again!
She was suspicious of LIS from day 1.
She was suspicious of MJ for a while, just didn't want to pull the trigger. (html was also suspicious of him for a while).
She pushed to kill Jam near the end (although I pretty much wanted to lynch Jam from the start... set off my wolfdar)

I had a couple senior moments this game involving Zen vs ZVH as Santa and thinking Jam and STL were linked cuz I thought Jam was the one who posted early about the wolves about to get it before STL banished burger. So really, I also tried to help out the wolves a bit early by stopping the zen lynch and giving Jam some extra time. Otherwise, me being able to PM everyone and being such a bully to get info was a good tool to have. STL and I had quite the conversation for sure. Glad he was able to get HTML back. Pretty sure it would have been a different game without her. It was a damn good thing we had Jil and DVMD to keep her in the game after that. Wolves didn't really stand a chance, but they played well.

Thanks for the game, WZ

 

[StartingoverVet]

And there were no conversions at all in the game.

FWIW: IMO it is virtually impossible for wolves to win a traditional game anymore without conversions unless they are SUPER powered, or villagers are really weak. Most of the players on here are just too good at finding wolves these days.

 

[StartingoverVet]

I had a couple senior moments this game involving Zen vs ZVH as Santa and thinking Jam and STL were linked cuz I thought Jam was the one who posted early about the wolves about to get it before STL banished burger. So really, I also tried to help out the wolves a bit early by stopping the zen lynch and giving Jam some extra time. Otherwise, me being able to PM everyone and being such a bully to get info was a good tool to have. STL and I had quite the conversation for sure. Glad he was able to get HTML back. Pretty sure it would have been a different game without her. It was a damn good thing we had Jil and DVMD to keep her in the game after that. Wolves didn't really stand a chance, but they played well.

Thanks for the game, WZ

yeah. 2 players shouldn't be allowed to have names starting with a Z. That should be a rule.

 

[Lupin21]

FWIW: IMO it is virtually impossible for wolves to win a traditional game anymore without conversions unless they are SUPER powered, or villagers are really weak. Most of the players on here are just too good at finding wolves these days.

Yeah, same thing happened in kaydubs and I's Pangaea game. Sometimes you just get tired of the moaning about conversions, so it is worth a try to see what happens without them. It probably would have been a lot closer if LIS had taken the mayorship alone. Lot of people don't trust PM enough to spread info. Without having wolfy names, they might have gotten away with it. As MJ said in a PM, alota coulda-shoulda-woulda.

 

[WildZoo]

FWIW: IMO it is virtually impossible for wolves to win a traditional game anymore without conversions unless they are SUPER powered, or villagers are really weak. Most of the players on here are just too good at finding wolves these days.

Yeah, I kind of wanted to see what would happen. The wolves did get very close at one point, but a failed kill and html coming back really turned it around.

The way it played out reminded me a lot of a more traditional game of mafia, where it does tend to be very difficult for the mafia to win if the players are good.

 

[brightimpressio]

The wolves won The Cat in the Hat game without any conversions . Although so much of that was just dumb luck .

 

[WildZoo]

All of the conversations were endlessly entertaining for me, by the way

The wolves won The Cat in the Hat game without any conversions . Although so much of that was just dumb luck .

Much of that was MJ saving you

 

[brightimpressio]

All of the conversations were endlessly entertaining for me, by the way

Much of that was MJ saving you

Definitely true haha.

 

[WildZoo]

For anyone who was interested in how wolf roles were chosen: It was completely RNG from the full set of roles. I made slight adjustments to the seers because with the way it worked out the villagers would have had an every other day seer and the wolves would have had an affiliation seer, but other than that most everything was true to the randomness.

Mayor perks were also role dependent, which is why Lupin got a PM ability and LIS got the option to create an extra workshop ability.

 

[WildZoo]

Pretty sure it would have been a different game without her.

At the time that she was revived, the wolves were one cycle away from winning the game if they could get a villager lynched and get a successful kill the next night.

 

[Lupin21]

Also, to SOV. Very happy to have had us on a team. Almost made this my avatar when I found out.

 

[WillowLeaf]

Thanks for the game, WZ! I died early but had lots of fun reading along and cheering on the villagers.

 

[StartingoverVet]

The wolves won The Cat in the Hat game without any conversions . Although so much of that was just dumb luck .

i stand corrected.

I guess @LetItSnow should approve of this design! Make the wolves really work for it.

 

[StartingoverVet]

I continue to have mixed feelings over the fact that the busier I am IRL and the less I post in these games, the more likely I am to survive.

 

[brightimpressio]

i stand corrected.

I guess @LetItSnow should approve of this design! Make the wolves really work for it.

New Rule: If there are no conversions you have to throw a really good chaos or neutral into the game to completely confuse the villagers and allow the remaining wolves to sneak under the radar .

 

[WildZoo]

New Rule: If there are no conversions you have to throw a really good chaos or neutral into the game to completely confuse the villagers and allow the remaining wolves to sneak under the radar .

Chaos roles do make nice balancing mechanisms

 

[brightimpressio]

Chaos roles do make nice balancing mechanisms

I enjoy them! They keep everyone on their toes .

 

[WildZoo]

I enjoy them! They keep everyone on their toes .

Yes, they are fun. I didn't have one here because I pretty much had to throw the game together in the one day between when OitNB ended and this started, and I didn't want to overdo it on my first time modding alone. This game was not meant to have too many moving parts for me to keep up with (hence the lack of items besides those allie made as well).

 

[WildZoo]

I enjoy them! They keep everyone on their toes .

Of course I'm sure we have very different views on MJ's role in Cat in the Hat

 

[brightimpressio]

Yes, they are fun. I didn't have one here because I pretty much had to throw the game together in the one day between when OitNB ended and this started, and I didn't want to overdo it on my first time modding alone. This game was not meant to have too many moving parts for me to keep up with (hence the lack of items besides those allie made as well).

I completely understand that . I threw Cats vs Dogs together in about a day and I had enough trouble keeping track of the 3 or 4 people that actually had night actions (even with DVMD's help) . Modding is tough business!

 

[Skimble]

I got really nervous early in the game because the first two people I role seered died the same night. I thought maybe it was like SOV's game where wolves didn't know they were wolves. Then all of the workshop people kept coming up wolf. So I just decided not to role seer anyone else.

 

[lhmhtd]

I continue to have mixed feelings over the fact that the busier I am IRL and the less I post in these games, the more likely I am to survive.

I investigated you the night before last bc i started to get suspicious. I know you're normally a little more active.

 

[StartingoverVet]

hey... how did frosty get to survive.... he doesn't even live to the end in the story.

I defy the odds.

(can anyone tell I am not working today based on my # of posts? )

 

[Mad Jack]

This is what happened to the wolves this game

I got to give props to Lupin again!
She was suspicious of LIS from day 1.
She was suspicious of MJ for a while, just didn't want to pull the trigger. (html was also suspicious of him for a while).
She pushed to kill Jam near the end (although I pretty much wanted to lynch Jam from the start... set off my wolfdar)

Agreed, Lupin was the key. Also, STL identifying Ksmi so early in the game.

My face every damn time Lupin opened her mouth.

 

[Glammyre]

Hey wolves why didn't you kill ZVH early in the game when she outed herself to our entire group including Zen? Seemed an obvious target.

We didn't kill Santa early because we figured that role would probably have kill protection. Swings didn't ability-seer until the night STL revived html because we wanted to collect info on other villagers.

This is what happened to the wolves this game

Correction - this is what happened after html was revived. Before that, we were rocking it.

 

[Lupin21]

My face every damn time Lupin opened her mouth.

We didn't kill Santa early because we figured that role would probably have kill protection. Swings didn't ability-seer until the night STL revived html because we wanted to collect info on other villagers.




Correction - this is what happened after html was revived. Before that, we were rocking it.

Oh yeah. And yet another original lynch that I stood up for a wolf in MJ when I asked him if he wanted to share who he was when we ended up lynching Vetash. I definitely was chaos in my own right for this game.

 

[DVMDream]

At least I didn't get kicked out of this WW, like I did the reindeer games.

 

[swingnsave]

good game WZ

 

[LetItSnow]

i stand corrected.

I guess @LetItSnow should approve of this design! Make the wolves really work for it.

I absolutely do approve of the design. Wolves win WAY too many games. Like, not just a 'bit' lopsided - it's horribly lopsided. Look at what happened when we ran that quickie game and went back looking through who won which games? It was wolf, wolf, wolf, wolf, oh hey -a villager win - , wolf, wolf, etc. I mean, maybe not quite that bad, but it was absurd. And considering the 'wolf' team is generally 20-25% of the players .... it's just never made any sense to me that they win even half the games, much less the more-than-half that they do.

So yes, I approve of the wolves getting mauled. I don't really have any comment son why, because after the first two days I was basically wolf-absentee. I'm not all that sure how the game actually played out.

I do think it's amusing that Lupin was suspicious of me from the get-go .... I didn't even really figure out who the wolves all were until after the game started. So being suspicious of me wouldn't have been for any good reason: I was quite literally playing as a villager. Hell, I threw a vote out for swings that people started to bandwagon, and I had completely forgotten swings was actually another wolf.

So.... Lupin had the right target, but not for any good reason. Just dumb luck, like most early-game guesses from any of us.

Villagers clearly kicked it into gear after the lhtmlhahlmthde resurrection. Very nicely done, villies. Nicely played, good game!

I enjoy them! They keep everyone on their toes .

Meh. I guess that is the positive way to spin it. I just think .... I guess in *principle* I can agree. But I think in practice, as often as not the chaos player is either irrelevant, or ends up with too much power and influence over which side wins. While it has definitely happened, I think it's relatively rare that it ends up being a truly positive aspect of the game overall. Not a fan.

 

[WildZoo]

I was quite literally playing as a villager. Hell, I threw a vote out for swings that people started to bandwagon, and I had completely forgotten swings was actually another wolf.

I am a fan of playing as a wolf in such a way that I almost completely forget that I am one (though this is easier to do as a convert than as an original). It is the easiest way for me to not act wolfy. So, I see this as good strategy, even if it wasn't intentional

 

[Gwenevre]

Thanks for the game WZ, even though I didn't last very long

 

[Lupin21]

I do think it's amusing that Lupin was suspicious of me from the get-go .... I didn't even really figure out who the wolves all were until after the game started. So being suspicious of me wouldn't have been for any good reason: I was quite literally playing as a villager. Hell, I threw a vote out for swings that people started to bandwagon, and I had completely forgotten swings was actually another wolf.

So.... Lupin had the right target, but not for any good reason. Just dumb luck, like most early-game guesses from any of us.

I think suspicious from the get go is slightly overstated. I raised an eyebrow at you saying you didn't get any mayor powers, but thought maybe you were just playing your cards close. Only after I had talked with STL N4 did we really put a couple things together to make me really suspect you, especially after he died. Definitely dumb luck most of the time without solid info or slip-ups from someone's defense.

 

[LetItSnow]

I think suspicious from the get go is slightly overstated. I raised an eyebrow at you saying you didn't get any mayor powers, but thought maybe you were just playing your cards close. Only after I had talked with STL N4 did we really put a couple things together to make me really suspect you, especially after he died. Definitely dumb luck most of the time without solid info or slip-ups from someone's defense.

Wait, what? When did I say I didn't get any mayoral powers? If that was in a PM to you, either I meant to write something different, or wrote it in a confusing way, or ...... I can't imagine why I would have held back on my mayor powers to you. No reason at all to do that since it was obvious to me that we both got some.

I think that was probably more miscommunication than any attempt to lie on my part.

If I posted it in the main thread, can you point it out to me? I'm really curious.... just dunno why I would have said that.

 

[LetItSnow]

I think suspicious from the get go is slightly overstated. I raised an eyebrow at you saying you didn't get any mayor powers, but thought maybe you were just playing your cards close. Only after I had talked with STL N4 did we really put a couple things together to make me really suspect you, especially after he died. Definitely dumb luck most of the time without solid info or slip-ups from someone's defense.

I just looked back through our PM thread ... I didn't say I didn't get any mayor powers. I just didn't tell you which ones I got. (Which is what I would have done as a villager, too.)

 

[ksmi117]

She was also given the option to vote in private which would have made STL's job of finding her more difficult (he got who she voted for and who she visited each night), but she chose not to do so.

I could??? Missed that. I mean I guess anyone can, but that wasn't even something that occurred to me. I had a lot of fun even if I didn't last long. Mostly because I knew who the wolves were, though none were in my group so I couldn't communicate with them. Good game!!

 

[StartingoverVet]

I just looked back through our PM thread ... I didn't say I didn't get any mayor powers. I just didn't tell you which ones I got. (Which is what I would have done as a villager, too.)

she told me you were coy about it. i don't think she said you said you had none at the time.
I was personally pretty suspicious of that. I would have been much more forthcoming with a fellow mayor. I guess that is just me.

still, i wasn't gonna lynch you just on that, so i was looking for something else...

instead i missed 2 chances to lycnh you. yes, still bitter .

 

[WildZoo]

I could??? Missed that. I mean I guess anyone can, but that wasn't even something that occurred to me. I had a lot of fun even if I didn't last long. Mostly because I knew who the wolves were, though none were in my group so I couldn't communicate with them. Good game!!

Yes. I understand how you would have missed it among the other things in your description though, and I think I probably should have made it more clear that it was something you would want to do. It would have been interesting if you had lasted longer because you would have been able to block people for the wolves.

 

[LetItSnow]

she told me you were coy about it. i don't think she said you said you had none at the time.
I was personally pretty suspicious of that. I would have been much more forthcoming with a fellow mayor. I guess that is just me.

still, i wasn't gonna lynch you just on that, so i was looking for something else...

instead i missed 2 chances to lycnh you. yes, still bitter .

Yeah.... I can see what you're saying. But really, I would not have shared my mayoral abilities with her, especially since they were (if I remember?) mostly protection based. Something like not being able to be killed at night (at all, as far as I could tell), and one lynch avoidance. That's not something I'd share with someone who might be converted down the road unless I really had a good reason for them to know. I could have shared the extra Santa's Workshop thing; that wouldn't give me any heartburn. But that's about it. And if I shared just that but said "and there's other stuff that I don't want to talk about" ... that would have been suspicious.

So: It worked out well for you guys that it 'made me suspicious' ... but it was just because it's 'naturally' suspicious to you guys; had I been a villager you would have been just as suspicious and wrong.

I can see being suspicious had I said "What, me? Nope, no mayor powers here!" or something sketchy like that. But you (maybe not Lupin) should know me well enough to know that I sometimes play my cards close to my chest and sometimes don't; it's not a wolf/villager thing - more related to how involved in the game I think I'll be able to be.

And yes, you missed your golden opportunity. Never fear, there will be more.

 

[Lupin21]

I just looked back through our PM thread ... I didn't say I didn't get any mayor powers. I just didn't tell you which ones I got. (Which is what I would have done as a villager, too.)

Oh yeah. I changed it in my head after confirmation that you were a wolf. Add another senior moment to my list.

As far as speaking to STL, he said a thought that a reindeer was evil was being had and I told him I had told you OGOS was hermey the night before being killed. The write-up description indicated a reindeer by the head butting and such, so after Zen was confirmed wolf by HTML and we lynched her, I had her look into you. It is also why I had MJ moved up on the list cause I thought all the blizzard and icicle stuff sounded like Snow Meiser. Not always good to infer things from write-up, but silly not to pursue it if the thought exists.

Needless to say, no matter what I enjoyed our brief convos. Really I had a lot of fun convos this game.