Civilian trying to Match into Military PGY-2 Internal Medicine (IM)

[biryani86]

Hi all,

I'm an US Citizen IMG who finished PGY-1 in an ACGME Internal Medicine (IM) program. Sat out for 1 year, now looking to apply for military match as a civilian. I've got an unrestricted license to practice in Wisconsin (which I'm using to do locum tenens work right now), though I'm wondering would it be better to enlist now as I'm adequately credentialed to be a military physician, or should I apply as a civilian for the match and enlist if I match?

Also what are my chances of matching either way, since it seems that IM is a slightly undesirable specialty (considering applicant:spots ratio of 0.97 in 2013 for 58 spots).

Appreciate your thoughts.

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[Cooperd0g]

I'm sure someone more knowledgable will be along shortly, but I'm pretty sure you can't apply to the military match as a civilian. What you may be able to do is to come into the service as a GMO or flight surgeon and then during that tour apply for the military match.

 

[colbgw02]

Qualified civilians can participate in the FYGME match. I'm not sure if they're allowed to apply for PGY-2 and beyond positions.

 

[aklark]

Best bet would be to contact MedEd people if you're looking at Army:

http://www.mods.army.mil/medicaleducation/userlogon/GenInfo.htm

 

[biryani86]

Thanks guys for the feedback.

I meet the requirements for an Army Active Duty Medical Corps Officer, so if I choose to join prior to the July 15, 2014 Match Cycle start, would I have significantly higher chances of matching into a PGY2 IM spot? Given the applicant:slot ratio of 0.97, and IM being slightly less desireable among military match candidates?

 

[colbgw02]

Thanks guys for the feedback.

I meet the requirements for an Army Active Duty Medical Corps Officer, so if I choose to join prior to the July 15, 2014 Match Cycle start, would I have significantly higher chances of matching into a PGY2 IM spot? Given the applicant:slot ratio of 0.97, and IM being slightly less desireable among military match candidates?

I don't think that's how it works.

Again, are you sure that you are even able to apply for PGY-2 spots? The letter of instruction (LOI) for FYGME (i.e. internship) explicitly says that qualified civilian applicants may participate, but then you'd end up repeating your internship. If you're not sure, then I suggest you contact at least one of the services national GME offices and ask if you are permitted to take part in the PGY-2 and beyond match.

You don't want to join the Army before you have participated in the match. They'll make you a GMO and you'll be stuck there for 2 years. I believe that, if you were to match into a military residency, then you would accept a commission as a requirement of agreeing to the residency contract.

I suppose there is a chance that you could find a position outside of the match, but I've never heard of that happening and I'm skeptical that could work out. Your best bet might be to find a motivated and sympathetic program director who wants you in his/her program and is willing to advocate on your behalf. Regardless, please understand that, in general, military medicine won't see you as doing it any sort of favor, even if you're a good applicant and even if you're taking a position that would otherwise go unfilled. It'll be the opposite actually. To wit, that you owe it for permitting you the great privilege of completing a residency.

 

[psychbender]

Ok, looks like I'm going to be that guy. Why did you leave your previous program after internship, and why were you unable to find a residency position in the civilian world?

It seems that every spring, someone comes on this board who dropped from residency, or failed to match in the civilian sector, and seems to think that the military would jump for joy to be able to take them in for training, despite whatever problems made them undesireable candidates for the civilian sector. Colbgw02 is right. No one in milmed is going to look at you as some savior here to take an unfilled position and relieve the burden on the backs of the rest of us. We are not desperate enough to just take anyone with a pulse and a medical degree; and residents do get fired from military programs (and have to serve out their remaining time as GMOs).

What you need to do is figure out what made you unable to match to a program in the civilian world, fix it if possible, and try again.

 

[pgg]

Why did you sit out for a year?

Why can't you find / don't you want to finish residency at a civilian program? There are a lot of IM programs out there.

We in the military don't want the civilian world's problems to join our ranks as a measure of last resort. Really, we're not that hard up for bodies.

If you want to join because you want to serve in the military, we can help with information about the three services. I don't mean to be rude but you sound like a problem looking for a second chance, and that's not what the military is for, despite the movies.


(ETA - psychbender beat me to it)

 

[pgg]

I meet the requirements for an Army Active Duty Medical Corps Officer, so if I choose to join prior to the July 15, 2014 Match Cycle start, would I have significantly higher chances of matching into a PGY2 IM spot?

Short answer, no. The PGY2 class starting July 2014 is set. The match was last December, applications were due last October.

Also, one can enlist by walking into a recruiting station and signing some paperwork. Getting commissioned into the medical corps - even if you've got a MD, citizenship, an unrestricted license, and no felonies - takes months and months. At best, if the stars aligned and the Army needed another GMO and you joined and went to whatever officer indoctrination course the Army has these days and then spent 1-2 years as a GMO, only then would you be allowed to apply for a PGY2 position in the military match.

Surely somewhere in the United States there's an IM program you can scramble into by July? It won't be Ivy League, but it's a job and a path to becoming board eligible. But this implies reassuring answers to the elephant-in-room questions: why'd you sit out a year in the first place, and why can't you find a civilian program to finish?

 

[Gastrapathy]

You are eligible to apply for the PGY2 IM military match this fall for a 2015 start as a civilian and would be commissioned if selected. However, there is essentially no chance you'll be selected as a total unknown. That policy has existed for years and I've never seen one chosen. You can potentially join the military and serve as a GMO for several years and then apply to the match (possibly as early as applying in 2015 for a 2016 start). This route is also risky as you might not be selected there either. Were you a prelim intern or were you not renewed?

For pgg, there really aren't any spots for many IMGs and there are tons of them out there (mostly looking for internship but if this is a non-renewed IMG, he's probably in big trouble).

 

[idq1i]

Looks like the op has disappeared. For all those thinking that s/he has some skeletons in the closet should realize that carribean schools often prey on people desperate enough to go to get a medical degree. They train more people than there are residency spots for, so it's not unusual for IMGs not to find a match, particularly in competitive geographic areas.

 

[Gastrapathy]

True but they haven't usually done an ACGME IM internship.

 

[idq1i]

True but they haven't usually done an ACGME IM internship.

True, but there are some non-designated prelims out there. I personally know 3 people who got stuck in the prelim cycle. There are a few reasons that people end up in the Caribbean. One - certain academic blemish (bad MCAT, bad science GPA, etc), but everything else is fairly solid. Two, a personality disorder (weirdos, schizotypals that can't pass an interview and have social interaction problems). Not sure which group the OP belongs to. Either way, using the military as a back door to residency completion is a terrible idea. For her/his own benefit, I hope the OP reconsiders.

 

[Apollyon]

True, but there are some non-designated prelims out there. I personally know 3 people who got stuck in the prelim cycle. There are a few reasons that people end up in the Caribbean. One - certain academic blemish (bad MCAT, bad science GPA, etc), but everything else is fairly solid. Two, a personality disorder (weirdos, schizotypals that can't pass an interview and have social interaction problems). Not sure which group the OP belongs to. Either way, using the military as a back door to residency completion is a terrible idea. For her/his own benefit, I hope the OP reconsiders.

There is one more big reason, but maybe it is 1a (as one of my classmates DID say, of all of us in the Carib, that "we're all missing a piece of the pie somewhere") is that, at least when I was there, the vast majority of the students were NY and CA residents - just more qualified that for which there are positions. I recall one guy from MS, and, to be kind, he was dumb (he passed, but ground it out - he ain't writin' no textbooks).

Well, I guess he ain't TOTALLY dumb - he's an ABIM boarded hospitalist now. Oh well.

 

[bustbones26]

Ok, looks like I'm going to be that guy. Why did you leave your previous program after internship, and why were you unable to find a residency position in the civilian world?

It seems that every spring, someone comes on this board who dropped from residency, or failed to match in the civilian sector, and seems to think that the military would jump for joy to be able to take them in for training, despite whatever problems made them undesireable candidates for the civilian sector. Colbgw02 is right. No one in milmed is going to look at you as some savior here to take an unfilled position and relieve the burden on the backs of the rest of us. We are not desperate enough to just take anyone with a pulse and a medical degree; and residents do get fired from military programs (and have to serve out their remaining time as GMOs).

What you need to do is figure out what made you unable to match to a program in the civilian world, fix it if possible, and try again.

No, you're not going to be that guy. I'll add a few comments as well.

First, if you want to join up the Army I have nothing against that and you should talk to a healthcare recruiter. HOWEVER be warned that some Army PDs, especially IM, get sick of IMGs calling asking if they can apply. I recall years ago, way back whenever I was a med student, I was sitting outside an IM PD's office, he abruptly hung up his phone and yelled out at his receptionist (paraphrase) "I'm sick of these FMGs calling all of time thinking the Army is an uncompetitive joke so they can just match at our hospital, stop letting them call me".

So, that being stated, I am not stomping on your goals, just be ready to have a good reason as to why you want to do this if asked.