Class Attendance policies are a joke.

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

So, I missed a class this morning. I tried e-mailing the due assignment to the professor but was told it was only acceptable in person......

So why does class attendance matter?

-The policies:
Students are expected to show up to some extent these vary by school

-Student Responsibility:
Is to abide by this (or else)

-Too many absences (the or else part kicks in)
Automatic F or something similiar (actual in-class grade does not matter)

-This treats the student like an adult
As a non-trad I vehemently disagree, I'm more than capable of turning an assignment or some work related thing in via e-mail to my boss. Furthermore, I am paying to attend school not vice versa. People are depending on my work performance not so for school. To take this farther, universities are not voc tech schools they provide an education, nothing more.
Oh, and consider this online courses vs. non-online courses.... The online performs better. They don't receive freebee points either. (If I could I would take these, I have yet to take one)

-Grade Inflation:
10-20 percent of your grade may come from simply showing up.... A detriment for those who can't :-(
On the plus side even the dumber students have a shot at that degree!!!!! Whoo-hooo!!!!!!!!!!!

-A middle ground?
Perhaps one can choose at the beginning of the semester. Your grade is off tests alone (no homework due at random times that can only be turned in by person i.e. a de facto attendance policy) or you can go the traditional route.


-Conclusion:
I am a paying customer, I expect a product. That product is an education. That product is not a school becoming involved in my personal life choices.

BTW: In my entire life I have never missed a day of work and my exemplary performance (at every job) puts me far above the average pay for someone in my shoes.

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[drjay16]

Some classes may involve a discussion component, in which case you have to be there. Others may involve a lab, in which case you have to be there. When I was in undergrad (HYSP), you didn't have to show up for most big classes and lectures were recorded via video or audio. For those I only showed up for exams and finals.

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

Some classes may involve a discussion component, in which case you have to be there. Others may involve a lab, in which case you have to be there. When I was in undergrad (HYSP), you didn't have to show up for most big classes and lectures were recorded via video or audio. For those I only showed up for exams and finals.

That sounds great. I have never missed a lab and I get that. As for a random lecture..... I don't see the point. My grades are heavily dependent (not really, unless you miss days) on attendance. Seems like the school trying to force their will upon the student body as far as I'm concerned.

 

[NickNaylor]

That sounds great. I have never missed a lab and I get that. As for a random lecture..... I don't see the point. My grades are heavily dependent (not really, unless you miss days) on attendance. Seems like the school trying to force their will upon the student body as far as I'm concerned.

Then don't go to that school or don't register for this courses? Not really sure what the point is here.

And for the record, I went to undergrad at an institution that had a very strict attendance policy - missing more than 25% of schedules classes resulted in automatically failure. For courses that didn't meet frequently, missing 3 classes for whatever reason would result in failure. It sucked, but it wasn't the end of the world. Perhaps take a new approach: this type of policy requires you to get something out of the thousands you're paying to be a student other than a piece of paper.

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

Were you aware of the attendance policy when you enrolled?

No, I kind of just went to the local school... It's also cheaper. Look I'm just venting here. I need to do a better job of attending class. I can do that.

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

Then don't go to that school or don't register for this courses? Not really sure what the point is here.

And for the record, I went to undergrad at an institution that had a very strict attendance policy - missing more than 25% of schedules classes resulted in automatically failure. For courses that didn't meet frequently, missing 3 classes for whatever reason would result in failure. It sucked, but it wasn't the end of the world. Perhaps take a new approach: this type of policy requires you to get something out of the thousands you're paying to be a student other than a piece of paper.

No point, just venting. Although, I don't believe in the policy the fact is I've chosen to attend a school that believes in one. Best to treat it like work and buckle down.

I'm going to do a better job of attending class. I've missed one total class this semester. I'll try and keep it at that.

 

[el_duderino]

Our school has occasional discussion classes that are mandatory attendance, but typically no more than 1 or 2 per week. Normal lectures are streamed/recorded.

I am aware that some schools require students to attend every class, sit in specific seats, etc. It's total madness. I don't understand why these policies exist.

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

Our school has occasional discussion classes that are mandatory attendance, but typically no more than 1 or 2 per week. Normal lectures are streamed/recorded.

I am aware that some schools require students to attend every class, sit in specific seats, etc. It's total madness. I don't understand why these policies exist.

I'm currently attending a 500 person lecture that has this. It's total chaos. Not sure if the teacher realizes how much time is wasted enforcing this. (Time is at a premium, seats are not).

 

[C.S. Peirce]

So why does class attendance matter?

I've been on the other side of the curtain, and actually taught undergrad classes. And here's why many instructors require attendance:

-Accepting assignments by email is a pain: it forces you to print the student's assignments off yourself, it forces you to monitor and organize your email even more carefully, and it clutters up your inbox space. Furthermore, it creates opportunities for unscrupulous undergrads to try and game the system ("but I sent it this morning..." or submitting a misformatted file and claiming it was the assignment).

-Students who don't show up to class show up eventually, and when they do they almost always need to be re-taught what you've already lectured on (undergraduate students are universally terrible at estimating their ability to learn material on their own). It's annoying to the instructor and unfair to the other students, for it costs office hour time that is better spent helping students who've been exposed to the material, and are working on trying to understand and apply it.

-Conclusion:
I am a paying customer, I expect a product. That product is an education. That product is not a school becoming involved in my personal life choices.

Well, yeah, but you're also a student. And this role has obligations associated with it that "customer" does not.

 

[milski]

Yes, it sucks and can be a huge waste of time. There is very little that you can do to change such policies, so you might as well try to use the time for something productive. The rigidness of deadlines/policies was one of the big surprises for me, coming from the corp world. On the bright side, as far as BS goes, having to be in a certain place at certain time is quite easy to handle.

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

I've been on the other side of the curtain, and actually taught undergrad classes. And here's why many instructors require attendance:

-Accepting assignments by email is a pain: it forces you to print the student's assignments off yourself, it forces you to monitor and organize your email even more carefully, and it clutters up your inbox space. Furthermore, it creates opportunities for unscrupulous undergrads to try and game the system ("but I sent it this morning..." or submitting a misformatted file and claiming it was the assignment).

-Students who don't show up to class show up eventually, and when they do they almost always need to be re-taught what you've already lectured on (undergraduate students are universally terrible at estimating their ability to learn material on their own). It's annoying to the instructor and unfair to the other students, for it costs office hour time that is better spent helping students who've been exposed to the material, and are working on trying to understand and apply it.



Well, yeah, but you're also a student. And this role has obligations associated with it that "customer" does not.

I can agree with what you said... but just to respond to a few.

An e-mail says what time it was sent, if the wrong e-mail was sent. That is their loss.

Students who show up to class eventually in a 150-500 person lecture are just lost and will have to pay the price. Their isn't really an opportunity to ask questions anyways so they really can't impact another student. As for office hour time, maybe just tell them to leave?


-To be fair in a perfect world a middle ground would exist. If I miss an occasional class, it can't be that big of a deal to turn an assignment in online can it? Or maybe just within 24 hours I have to hand the professor a paper copy exactly the same as the e-mail?

 

[NickNaylor]

I can agree with what you said... but just to respond to a few.

An e-mail says what time it was sent, if the wrong e-mail was sent. That is their loss.

Students who show up to class eventually in a 150-500 person lecture are just lost and will have to pay the price. Their isn't really an opportunity to ask questions anyways so they really can't impact another student. As for office hour time, maybe just tell them to leave?


-To be fair in a perfect world a middle ground would exist. If I miss an occasional class, it can't be that big of a deal to turn an assignment in online can it? Or maybe just within 24 hours I have to hand the professor a paper copy exactly the same as the e-mail?

It's really not as simple as this. I TA at my med school, and even with a small class (88) it can be a pain. Depending on the question, an e-mail may take anywhere from 1-5 minutes to respond to. Even with 10 e-mails a day, that's a lot of time spent writing e-mails. Multiply that by some large number for huge undergrad courses and for undergrads that are generally clueless and get in touch for inane questions.

You're right that if it's for one person, it's not a big deal. The problem is that it's never for one person. And, frankly, you're the student - you're the one that should be more "inconvenienced" - or, in this case, simply following the university's policies - over a TA or professor that is responsible for multiple courses in addition to other non-teaching duties. You are not their equal. You are their inferior. Welcome to academia.

 

[Satire5Texul]

If there wasn’t an attendance policy people just wouldn’t show up. Its funny cause I was just observing this morning in a horrible lecture professor, that rambles on about his cousins and family problems. People were sending emails, on Ipad doing online shopping and I was also doing other classwork.
Attendance is just to enforce things. Could you imagine how much less money the university would make on parking tickets and parking permits if the attendance was not mandatory lol ?
I have a really cool professor for another class. If you can do well on exams he asks to just draft up a contract that your grade is based only on your tests, and he entirely excludes clicker and attendance-based grades (he also called them inflation).

But I can tell you the classes I go to, I always earn a higher grade percentage. It’s just another form of information delivery. I use it as a time constrained event, see how much you can extract from the power points and actively memorize. Going to class is just a way to gauge where the class is with the material.

Yesterday someone emailed everyone in the class “can anyone help me with the practice exam?” And we had just went over each and every question in class

If I don’t go to class I end up doing way more work, versus knowing what needs to be shaved off form studying for the exam.

 

[Goro]

Getting an education is NOT like buying garden hose at Walmart. You don't buy the education, you just buy the right to earn one. That's it.

I agree that as an adult learner, you know best as to what is your optimal learning style. However, you're not such a special snowflake that the rules don't apply to you.

-Conclusion:
I am a paying customer, I expect a product. That product is an education. That product is not a school becoming involved in my personal life choices.

BTW: In my entire life I have never missed a day of work and my exemplary performance (at every job) puts me far above the average pay for someone in my shoes.

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

Getting an education is NOT like buying garden hose at Walmart. You don't buy the education, you just buy the right to earn one. That's it.

I agree that as an adult learner, you know best as to what is your optimal learning style. However, you're not such a special snowflake that the rules don't apply to you.

-Conclusion:
I am a paying customer, I expect a product. That product is an education. That product is not a school becoming involved in my personal life choices.

BTW: In my entire life I have never missed a day of work and my exemplary performance (at every job) puts me far above the average pay for someone in my shoes.

Goro, you're absolutely right. I was a little upset when I started this thread this morning. As a I said earlier I'll make a point of buckling down for the long haul.

 

[Lysinee]

Always read the entire syllabus before the first day of class. Focus on the dos and don'ts.

I would take the 20% attendance grade than doing an essay for 20% of the grade. Sitting in class is much easier and you can bring your laptop to keep yourself busy.

 

[Goro]

Just make sure you don't apply to LECOM!

Goro, you're absolutely right. I was a little upset when I started this thread this morning. As a I said earlier I'll make a point of buckling down for the long haul.

 

[Amba]

Our school has occasional discussion classes that are mandatory attendance, but typically no more than 1 or 2 per week. Normal lectures are streamed/recorded.

I am aware that some schools require students to attend every class, sit in specific seats, etc. It's total madness. I don't understand why these policies exist.

Pretty sure OP is talking about undergrad and not med school? I mean, most med schools don't require attendance at lectures. And for the ones that do, it is fairly understandable why - CCLCM is almost exclusively small group work, and (I assume) Mayo's small class size would make lectures really awkward if only 5-10 people showed up each day.

 

[Lamel]

Some large lecture classes you just don't need to attend to do well, it is a waste of time. Though smaller discussion based classes are often worthwhile.

 

[Theafoni]

They use clickers in my physiology class, so you have to show up or you lose points

 

[efle]

They use clickers in my physiology class, so you have to show up or you lose points

I had this in one of my classes, only it was worse than an attendance policy.

We were graded for correctness on questions based on things the professor was about to lecture on. That's right - we were tested, daily, to make sure we had taught ourselves all the material out of the textbook before getting to hear it from the teacher.

I mean seriously, this policy made me livid. It's bad enough to be told that I must learn in the cramped classroom in the early morning instead of at home whenever I want off the recorded lectures, but it really makes no god damn sense at all for us to be punished for a learning style of hearing it from the prof first, then reading text on anything we need reinforced. "You don't buy the education, you just buy the right to earn one." More like you buy the right to read a book and have the university give a few tests to check that you did a decent job of it. /rant

 

[beachside]

So, I missed a class this morning. I tried e-mailing the due assignment to the professor but was told it was only acceptable in person......

So why does class attendance matter?

-The policies:
Students are expected to show up to some extent these vary by school

-Student Responsibility:
Is to abide by this (or else)

-Too many absences (the or else part kicks in)
Automatic F or something similiar (actual in-class grade does not matter)

-This treats the student like an adult
As a non-trad I vehemently disagree, I'm more than capable of turning an assignment or some work related thing in via e-mail to my boss. Furthermore, I am paying to attend school not vice versa. People are depending on my work performance not so for school. To take this farther, universities are not voc tech schools they provide an education, nothing more.
Oh, and consider this online courses vs. non-online courses.... The online performs better. They don't receive freebee points either. (If I could I would take these, I have yet to take one)

-Grade Inflation:
10-20 percent of your grade may come from simply showing up.... A detriment for those who can't :-(
On the plus side even the dumber students have a shot at that degree!!!!! Whoo-hooo!!!!!!!!!!!

-A middle ground?
Perhaps one can choose at the beginning of the semester. Your grade is off tests alone (no homework due at random times that can only be turned in by person i.e. a de facto attendance policy) or you can go the traditional route.


-Conclusion:
I am a paying customer, I expect a product. That product is an education. That product is not a school becoming involved in my personal life choices.

BTW: In my entire life I have never missed a day of work and my exemplary performance (at every job) puts me far above the average pay for someone in my shoes.

To me, mandatory attendance screams mediocre university. Some of my best classes in college only had two grades -- a midterm and a final. I loved those. Of course you still had to show up to class often enough to know what the professor was likely to test you on! I agree with your sentiment, giving points for attendance is just rewarding students who put in the work, but don't actually learn anything. This is partially why I'll always say that MCAT is more important than GPA.

 

[efle]

To me, mandatory attendance screams mediocre university. Some of my best classes in college only had two grades -- a midterm and a final. I loved those. Of course you still had to show up to class often enough to know what the professor was likely to test you on! I agree with your sentiment, giving points for attendance is just rewarding students who put in the work, but don't actually learn anything. This is partially why I'll always say that MCAT is more important than GPA.

There are good schools with mandatory attendance classes. Points for attendance don't really reward anyone if the majority of the class is there all the time - it only punishes those few who miss a significant number. You still have to learn the material to get that A. The MCAT is so much simpler and shallower than full science course exams that it can't ever demonstrate the same mastery as a strong prereq GPA.

 

[JimmyB123]

My undergrad is moving more and more towards the integration of digital and cyber Do-it-on-your-own aspects of education. I think that's the future of education in this country anyways.

 

[beachside]

There are good schools with mandatory attendance classes. Points for attendance don't really reward anyone if the majority of the class is there all the time - it only punishes those few who miss a significant number. You still have to learn the material to get that A. The MCAT is so much simpler and shallower than full science course exams that it can't ever demonstrate the same mastery as a strong prereq GPA.

If a significant portion of your grade is based off of attendance, homeworks, in-class participation, and other gimmicks, then your A or B in a prereq does not at all indicate mastery of the material to me. Mastery of material can only truly be indicated by examination scores.

As far as the MCAT goes, it may not have a great deal of depth of material, but it certainly challenges you to actually master that material conceptually. Many undergraduate college examinations are simple regurgitation, without serious in-depth application and analysis.

 

[efle]

If a significant portion of your grade is based off of attendance, homeworks, in-class participation, and other gimmicks, then your A or B in a prereq does not at all indicate mastery of the material to me. Mastery of material can only truly be indicated by examination scores.

As far as the MCAT goes, it may not have a great deal of depth of material, but it certainly challenges you to actually master that material conceptually. Many undergraduate college examinations are simple regurgitation, without serious in-depth application and analysis.

If nearly everyone earns full credit on the gimmicks, then the limited A's and B's still end up distributed based totally on differing performance in the remaining exam-based portion of your grade.

Chalk it up to differences between our prereq experiences

 

[ridethecliche]

Why do you start so many banal threads? The requirements are in the syllabus. Read it.

 

[NickNaylor]

I had this in one of my classes, only it was worse than an attendance policy.

We were graded for correctness on questions based on things the professor was about to lecture on. That's right - we were tested, daily, to make sure we had taught ourselves all the material out of the textbook before getting to hear it from the teacher.

I mean seriously, this policy made me livid. It's bad enough to be told that I must learn in the cramped classroom in the early morning instead of at home whenever I want off the recorded lectures, but it really makes no god damn sense at all for us to be punished for a learning style of hearing it from the prof first, then reading text on anything we need reinforced. "You don't buy the education, you just buy the right to earn one." More like you buy the right to read a book and have the university give a few tests to check that you did a decent job of it. /rant

You have just described medical school.

 

[efle]

Why do you start so many banal threads? The requirements are in the syllabus. Read it.

Whoa someone had a bad day

You have just described medical school.

Really I thought many med students learned at home from streamed lectures?

 

[LizzyM]

When you go on interviews, ask the students what the attendance policies are and ask if they have changed recently. Ask the faculty what the attendance policies are, if they have changed recently and if not, if there are any anticipated changes going forward. Some schools will have mandatory attendance for some sessions but not others. It helps to know what will be expected of you.

 

[Gauss44]

OP, from a distance your picture of a guy walking looks like Goro's cat picture. I thought Goro posted this question at first and had to look twice.

To your point, I think that mandatory attendance in a non-laboratory class is usually unnecessary. These days there are so many online courses that prove that in-person attendance isn't important to learning most subjects. Even from my perspective of also being an instructor (not only a student), I would rather that students attended because they wanted to.

I don't know why some schools have policies like that.

 

[NickNaylor]

Whoa someone had a bad day

Really I thought many med students learned at home from streamed lectures?

Sure, but the point is that you will not learn everything that you're expected to know on the exams that "make sure you actually did the work" (i.e., the step exams). This becomes orders of magnitude more true when you enter the clinical years, which will require you to learn substantial more amounts of information than you will receive in lecture or learn on the wards and be tested on with the shelf exams. This is the "problem" with medical training: there is simply too much information to cover. You will cover the most important stuff and a lot of details in the pre-clinical years, but there will still be more work that you have to get done in outside studying. In the clinical years, you are essentially self-teaching - at least that was my experience. I also never streamed lectures, so I have a slightly different take I think.

 

[efle]

Sure, but the point is that you will not learn everything that you're expected to know on the exams that "make sure you actually did the work" (i.e., the step exams). This becomes orders of magnitude more true when you enter the clinical years, which will require you to learn substantial more amounts of information than you will receive in lecture or learn on the wards and be tested on with the shelf exams. This is the "problem" with medical training: there is simply too much information to cover. You will cover the most important stuff and a lot of details in the pre-clinical years, but there will still be more work that you have to get done in outside studying. In the clinical years, you are essentially self-teaching - at least that was my experience. I also never streamed lectures, so I have a slightly different take I think.

Oh I have no problems with self-teaching, I just think it's stupid to care whether students see the lecture in person vs online vs not at all, and really stupid to force students to self-teach from a textbook nightly instead of letting them study on their own schedule from whatever resources in whatever order.

I always hear that medical education is overwhelming, but I heard that a lot about undergrad too (like all the hype around Ochem that keeps freshman up at night). Does nobody find it tough but managable?

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

When you go on interviews, ask the students what the attendance policies are and ask if they have changed recently. Ask the faculty what the attendance policies are, if they have changed recently and if not, if there are any anticipated changes going forward. Some schools will have mandatory attendance for some sessions but not others. It helps to know what will be expected of you.

Actually from the med schools I've visited they sound awesome! All lectures are taped, no mandatory attendance, no homework, just straight up learn the material and be tested over it. I'm so jealous of anyone that gets to go or work there

Also, everyone in med school wants to be in med school and is learning stuff they want to learn....... It's a little different than learning about stenka razin and his impact on western civilization Yes, I'm so happy to be more aware of him. (Russia was a terrifying country to live in back in the day). So, I would probably have 100% attendance like I did in tech school (Also, not working and having classes from 0800-2000 helps, I've missed so many Minnesota Wild games as a result)

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

OP, from a distance your picture of a guy walking looks like Goro's cat picture. I thought Goro posted this question at first and had to look twice.

To your point, I think that mandatory attendance in a non-laboratory class is usually unnecessary. These days there are so many online courses that prove that in-person attendance isn't important to learning most subjects. Even from my perspective of also being an instructor (not only a student), I would rather that students attended because they wanted to.

I don't know why some schools have policies like that.

If @Goro or anyone else feels I need to change my pic back to or to something else just message me... I probably will if anyone feels so

Good to hear, the teachers who are more helpful and want their students to learn don't seem to waste their time being sticklers on everything from what I've learned. Sounds like you were a great professor.

As for my avatar they've all been from The Spirit movie. Which could've been better but I've found the title catchy.

 

[LizzyM]

Actually from the med schools I've visited they sound awesome! All lectures are taped, no mandatory attendance, no homework, just straight up learn the material and be tested over it. I'm so jealous of anyone that gets to go or work there

Also, everyone in med school wants to be in med school and is learning stuff they want to learn....... It's a little different than learning about stenka razin and his impact on western civilization Yes, I'm so happy to be more aware of him. (Russia was a terrifying country to live in back in the day). So, I would probably have 100% attendance like I did in tech school (Also, not working and having classes from 0800-2000 helps, I've missed so many Minnesota Wild games as a result)

Does that mean no PBL at any of those schools. PBL usually has mandatory attendance.

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

Does that mean no PBL at any of those schools. PBL usually has mandatory attendance.

I'm aware of PBL... but I wouldn't know too much about it. Being required to show up to lab or the occasional lecture isn't so bad though. I'm not so opposed to attendance in med school anyways.

 

[Goro]

The cat is insulted! Bring her some Mouse Morsels from Bertha's Kitty Boutique and she'll be mollified. Unless you want to find a hairball in your shoes?

OP, from a distance your picture of a guy walking looks like Goro's cat picture. I thought Goro posted this question at first and had to look twice.

To your point, I think that mandatory attendance in a non-laboratory class is usually unnecessary. These days there are so many online courses that prove that in-person attendance isn't important to learning most subjects. Even from my perspective of also being an instructor (not only a student), I would rather that students attended because they wanted to.

I don't know why some schools have policies like that.

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

I've found higher level courses aren't as stringent on this and I'm doing far better. Also, I do my best to avoid early morning classes....as those were the ones I routinely missed showing up for.

 

[Lannister]

I totally agree. If I go to lecture, I usually just end up texting the whole time, because I have the attention span of a goldfish. So not going to lecture is usually a more efficient use of my time. If the class is actually interactive, and we do group work or have discussions, then I find going to class very helpful. Lectures are so outdated, IMO.

 

[aalamruad]

I've found higher level courses aren't as stringent on this and I'm doing far better. Also, I do my best to avoid early morning classes....as those were the ones I routinely missed showing up for.

You don't have trouble getting to work on time, but you can't handle morning classes...?

Congratulations on avoiding getting up early and having to go to the classes that you pay for, but if you really have so much trouble jumping through hoops and paying your dues, you're going to have a tough time.

 

[Satire5Texul]

I've found higher level courses aren't as stringent on this and I'm doing far better. Also, I do my best to avoid early morning classes....as those were the ones I routinely missed showing up for.

My biochem is at 8 am ~_~
This morning they did an attendance bonus for those who showed up e.e
Sometimes it pays to go. I feel like the professors are obligated to teach so they make a point sometimes of giving better hints for those who come.
LoL so many people walked out of my cellular class during a "supplemental" lecture that the professor is offering bonus question, and told us what the answer to the ridiculous question will be.
I totally agree that attendance wains with higher level courses, but it helps so much with these difficult courses if the professors are willing to throw you one of these bones

 

[efle]

You don't have trouble getting to work on time, but you can't handle morning classes...?

Congratulations on avoiding getting up early and having to go to the classes that you pay for, but if you really have so much trouble jumping through hoops and paying your dues, you're going to have a tough time.

You pay to get the class/grade/degree as part of this process, not the wonderful collegiate experience of a 300 person lecture. You lose nothing of value by watching lecture recordings or studying from textbook etc instead.

The hoop with value is learning the material and getting a grade for it, not sitting in class spacing out/sleeping because you're required to be there.

 

[Lawpy]

I've found higher level courses aren't as stringent on this and I'm doing far better. Also, I do my best to avoid early morning classes....as those were the ones I routinely missed showing up for.

It's another reason why upper levels are awesome. You're on your own so you have to find your way out.

Then again, i'm bad for skipping even the intro level classes so that's that. I can read stuff in my own time rather than swatting flies in lame lectures. Don't recall attendence policies being strict though

 

[Holmwood]

I agree, upper division is so awesome.

We have journal clubs, online reading assignments in place of in-class lectures, grant writing competitions, etc.

It's just hard to do it with 200 students. Lectures are outdated, but it's sort of the product of our bloated education system.

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

Congratulations on avoiding getting up early and having to go to the classes that you pay for

Thanks

 

[Turkishking]

Bisey olmaz oglum. Hangi universitde okuyorsun?

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

Bisey olmaz oglum. Hangi universitde okuyorsun?

Ben biologie okuyorum. Sen?
En sevdiğin ders ne?

 

[Turkishking]

Ben biologie okuyorum. Sen?
En sevdiğin ders ne?

Bende Biologie! En sevdiyim ders biologie haaha. Hangi okulda okula gidiyorsun?

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

Bende Biologie! En sevdiyim ders biologie haaha. Hangi okulda okula gidiyorsun?

......
Olur.
Iowa State University gidiyorum...........

May I ask why you place so much importance on what school one attends? I'm aware you're looking into transferring from your current university into another one based on, from what I've taken away, the prestige of the university being slightly higher. I recall at least one user warning you that your GPA may take a hit if you transfer (can't recall why) and you'd essentially be a freshman all over again.... have to make new friends, learn campus (favorite study spots), etc.

Me personally I had the choice of going to several universities (Drake w/ 50% scholarship, U of I, several others) but I chose the cheapest in-state option because it doesn't matter to a great extent. Many people from surrounding states attend this university due to cost and have successfully made it into med school. Also, I ended up majoring in a Liberal Arts and Sciences degree (a BA over a BS as ISU doesn't offer a BS in Biology). It doesn't matter even for non-Med School reasons.

The University of Iowa is a slightly better school, slightly more expensive, but not to the extent I was going to pack my things up and go there.

I think @Goro, @LizzyM, can add to that.

Furthermore, you can use either library and some other resources if you're living near both universities (if that's important to you). I've even studied at a local community college library before because I was near it, nobody kicked me out because I was a university student.

Also, you should look into this if you haven't already.
Turkish Graduate Student Association at UB (don't have to be a grad student to attend)
http://gsa.buffalo.edu/turkish/index.html

Talk to them and I believe they can help you more than you realize, w/ many things networking (shadowing doctors, volunteering, so forth), finding new friends, deciding on what school in Buffalo to attend, etc.

iyi sanslar