PhD/PsyD Clinical Psychologist Salary

[hpxb]

Greetings! I am clinical psychology doctorate student presently applying for internship. As I begin to really think about my future, I was wondering if I might gain a bit of information regarding the typical starting salary to expect as a Clinical Psychologist. I know that there are many variables at play (e.g., geographical location), but any info that I can receive, especially from those currently out in the field or job searching, will be immensely helpful.

A bit of relevant info: As of now, I am hoping to obtain a clinical position (as a licensed clinical psychologist) either within an existing clinical practice or in a behavioral medicine/integrative medicine setting. While this is my primary goal, I would ideally love to simultaneously hold a teaching/clinical supervisory position at a university. I suppose I have two key questions:

1. What starting salaries can I expect in any of these positions?
2. Does this combined income seem possible at all (logistically...I am certainly aware of the qualifications for each)? Starting out?
3. I am always very appreciative of any other relevant info that can be provided. One topic that comes to mind is what I can expect immediately after graduation (pre-license). I can add that I will be sitting for the exam in a state that allows for the inclusion of pre-doc hours, so that should abbreviate the timeline a bit.

Thank you all so, so much for your input!

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[erg923]

Greetings! I am clinical psychology doctorate student presently applying for internship. As I begin to really think about my future, I was wondering if I might gain a bit of information regarding the typical starting salary to expect as a Clinical Psychologist. I know that there are many variables at play (e.g., geographical location), but any info that I can receive, especially from those currently out in the field or job searching, will be immensely helpful.

A bit of relevant info: As of now, I am hoping to obtain a clinical position (as a licensed clinical psychologist) either within an existing clinical practice or in a behavioral medicine/integrative medicine setting. While this is my primary goal, I would ideally love to simultaneously hold a teaching/clinical supervisory position at a university. I suppose I have two key questions:

1. What starting salaries can I expect in any of these positions?
2. Does this combined income seem possible at all (logistically...I am certainly aware of the qualifications for each)? Starting out?
3. I am always very appreciative of any other relevant info that can be provided. One topic that comes to mind is what I can expect immediately after graduation (pre-license). I can add that I will be sitting for the exam in a state that allows for the inclusion of pre-doc hours, so that should abbreviate the timeline a bit.

Thank you all so, so much for your input!

Kinda curious why one wouldn't research a thimgs prior to applying for graduate school?

The short answer is: Wide range that depends on your setting and geographic location, as well as whther you are in an RVU model, salary, or fee for service. Obvioulsy, if you are join an existing private practice, you dont make a salary.

Starting salary post licensure: 55-75; 5 years out: 60k-100k)

 

[hpxb]

Thank you for your response! And I suppose that I should clarify...I have done extensive research in this area throughout my time in graduate school, as well as prior to my initial application. I probably should have included my current understanding of the salary outlook within my original post, especially given the fact that my anticipated numbers were directly in line with those in your response. My motivation for writing my initial post was that, as you likely know, there tends to be some discrepancy among reporters when it comes to finances, and I wanted to gain even more data points from licensed professionals to support/modify my expectations. Research as I might, there are also countless details of the professional reality that I simply cannot see from my vantage point. Perhaps most importantly, children are coming soon for me, so it is imperative that I plan my budget down to the last cent. I apologize if my initial post made me seem helpless or uninformed. I assure you that I am not.

Thank you again for the response and enjoy the weekend.

 

[Ollie123]

Depending on qualifications, you might want to look at a clinical position in an academically affiliated hospitals. They tend to have more behavioral medicine-type positions. Would provide opportunities for supervision and keep you linked with the academic world a bit more - potentially providing an easier avenue to adjuncting (unlikely you could easily combine it with teaching in another way since I saw no mention of research). Salaries tend to skew towards the higher end - I'm familiar with positions that are clinical/research and even 75k would be on the lower end. Its not for everyone though.

With kids in the near future, one major thing you may want to think about is benefits. Out-of-pocket health insurance can cost a fortune, not to mention things like retirement, etc. Obviously it varies widely, but generally speaking I think you'll find better benefits in large institutions than a private practice.

 

[deleted343839]

Definitely look into jobs at academic medical centers, especially those that have a psychology internship or practicum, or at VA hospitals with a strong academic affiliate Salaries tend to be pretty reasonable. However, to be competitive you may need a postdoctoral fellowship unless you are in a state where you can become licensed right away. Also, be aware that some AMCs like to train up their own faculty, meaning you could spend a few years in an instructor-type position (with some uncertainty about your future) before being offered a faculty position. However, if you are more interested in a staff psychologist job focused mainly on clinical work, you should be ready to apply once you are license-eligible.

 

[Lurking Oracle]

Definitely look into jobs at academic medical centers, especially those that have a psychology internship or practicum, or at VA hospitals with a strong academic affiliate Salaries tend to be pretty reasonable. However, to be competitive you may need a postdoctoral fellowship unless you are in a state where you can become licensed right away. Also, be aware that some AMCs like to train up their own faculty, meaning you could spend a few years in an instructor-type position (with some uncertainty about your future) before being offered a faculty position. However, if you are more interested in a staff psychologist job focused mainly on clinical work, you should be ready to apply once you are license-eligible.

MamaPhD is spot on. While the typical AMC starting salaries might not seem stellar, they are generally good, secure, and can ramp-up nicely after a few years. But, you will have to have solid credentials from real (i.e., APA-accredited) programs to even be considered by true AMCs or the VA. I also think that you should take very seriously what Ollie123 said about benefits. Many (most?) AMCs offer benefits that private practitioners could not even buy their way into, no matter how much cash they are raking in. I am not just talking about health and retirement, although those are usually better than anything the typical PP psychologist can actually afford. An even nicer example: Two of the R1 AMCs at which I have worked (and currently work) have full tuition for dependents as a standard benefit. No such thing in private practice.

 

[beantownpsych]

VA (post licensure)--90-100K
AMC--Purely clinical (for example providing care on a clinical service) -- 68-78K (note that you have to make this through pt care, it's not guaranteed. Though if you make more some places let you take home the extra or you can use it to argue a salary increase the following year). Supervision of trainees etc likely required but not something you get paid for. For some if you fail to generate a certain amount of clinical revenue, your benefits are affected
Private Practice w/ a clinical appointment at a university-- depends on a lot of factors like if you take insurance, overhead etc. Again, supervision etc is likely something you do for little to no money in exchange for the appointment. And you have to pay for your own benefits.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

I just talked to some friends that applied to name brand AMCs on each coast. After postdocs, for 60-75% clinical and the rest research positions, offers were 80-85k. I think the Midwest would have slightly lower salaries but in line with coast of living. If anything, one always wins out on cost of living in the Midwest.

No idea about private practice.

 

[WisNeuro]

Just a slight correction,VA's will be 85-95k post licensure, and that's if you have 2 years of postdoctoral practice, lower if you only have 1. If you want to see what it woudl be for a specific area, all of the salaries are posted. GS-12 is postdoctoral with 1 year experience, gs-13 is with 2 years.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I just talked to some friends that applied to name brand AMCs on each coast. After postdocs, for 60-75% clinical and the rest research positions, offers were 80-85k. I think the Midwest would have slightly lower salaries but in line with coast of living. If anything, one always wins out on cost of living in the Midwest.

No idea about private practice.

Unless one has expensive, location restrictive hobbies like scuba diving because those plane tickets eat up a pretty penny out here

I need to take up bird watching.

 

[smalltownpsych]

There are jobs that 80k and up post-licensure and if you work hard and find the right position, you can supplement with private practice to increase. I could make up to 150k in my current position, but will probably end up a bit lower cause I can't really work that hard. I am trying to figure out the next step for myself once the loan repayment program is completed to maximize my productivity and compensation to get above the 200k mark. A big reason that I will be likely to reach that goal is that my wife has extensive business experience both in and out of healthcare and I have extensive sales and business experience prior to this career.

 

[Pragma]

Smalltown brings up a good point about supplementing income. Some people (myself included) hold two different positions (full time and a part time side job). The side job increases my income pretty significantly. Not all places allow for side jobs though - so that is a consideration when you think about salary.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Smalltown brings up a good point about supplementing income. Some people (myself included) hold two different positions (full time and a part time side job). The side job increases my income pretty significantly. Not all places allow for side jobs though - so that is a consideration when you think about salary.

It works best when the full-time job is not too demanding in time or energy, as well. I used to supplement income with adjunct teaching and that was nice because I enjoyed it and since the subjects were undergrad psych, I didn't have to do much prep work. Once I got my lectures outlined and the exams constructed the first semester, then I could just show up to class and tell interesting stories and make a few grand a class.

 

[Loansforlife]

It works best when the full-time job is not too demanding in time or energy, as well. I used to supplement income with adjunct teaching and that was nice because I enjoyed it and since the subjects were undergrad psych, I didn't have to do much prep work. Once I got my lectures outlined and the exams constructed the first semester, then I could just show up to class and tell interesting stories and make a few grand a class.

I respect the point about full time jobs being potentially draining. I would love to stop putting all my proverbial "eggs in one basket" and do some side teaching, or contract out to do a day of testing, etc. However some of these organizational (hospital) jobs can sap your energy. My particular place of employment has some ridiculous expectations for 80-90% productivity with billable face to face hours...A fellow neuropsychologist colleague calls it "paying your dues" however I am not even getting loan reimbursement.

If I had to do it all again, I would have prioritized finding a job with loan forgiveness first instead of one with just good pay. Spend a few years accruing post license experience, then look at office space or getting into an establish group practice. Or if teaching is your thing, look at community colleges, which may have more opportunity for part time instructor pools, thus giving you the requisite teaching experience to move toward a University if you choose.

 

[Pragma]

It works best when the full-time job is not too demanding in time or energy, as well. I used to supplement income with adjunct teaching and that was nice because I enjoyed it and since the subjects were undergrad psych, I didn't have to do much prep work. Once I got my lectures outlined and the exams constructed the first semester, then I could just show up to class and tell interesting stories and make a few grand a class.

I've seen starting salaries range from 50-90k, depending on setting. The ability to supplement that income also depends on the setting.

For instance, a lot of AMC type positions have non-compete clauses. Therefore, if you are primarily a clinician, you can't do a PP in some of those cases. You might be able to moonlight teaching a course or something, or maybe doing some kind of research part time, but generally, those jobs are demanding enough because of the setting. Some additional variables about AMCs are whether you are funded for clinical work or research work. The salary ceiling can be a lot higher in those settings, but often it is contingent on bringing in soft money. Pretty much everyone I know at an AMC does not work on the side.

At a VA, the story is a little bit different. I'm pretty sure they allow for you to have a side job. While the starting salaries are pretty good, the ceiling is not as high as it is in an AMC setting, unless perhaps you pursue an administrative role to get to the highest grade. However, most VA psychologists are going to report a nice QOL, and if they can supplement their income, that's also nice.

Then there are psychology departments, where salaries are also going to vary a bit. I've seen starting salaries range from 50-80 depending again on the type of institution. What is tricky about these TT positions is that most of the time, it is tough to justify side work while you are still trying to earn tenure. They want you to demonstrate your commitment. There are exceptions to this of course, and it is not atypical for someone to have a day for PP or something like that. There can eventually be a high ceiling at some of these places - also depends to some extent on grants and raises. A benefit of these positions can be summers off to do other things as well - also something to consider when you look at salaries if they are 9 month ones.

Some newer players in the job market are the FSPS institutions. They typically offer non-TT positions, maybe a little bit higher salary but 12 month contracts I believe in a lot of cases. I haven't heard any good things from people that work at these places, and a lot of people look down upon folks working at these places because they view them as contributing to the problem of saturation and poor education in our field. But there are good psychologists in these jobs, and, money talks I guess. I believe a lot of these positions do allow for side clinical work as well.

I've got a TT job at an R2 that gives me enough flexibility to do clinical work on the side. In my view, it's the best of both worlds - I get to teach and do research as my primary source of income, and supplement that with part time clinical work. Having 3 months of the year off allows for a lot of flexibility to earn additional income as well, or to just relax. Makes going from the wide starting range of 50-90K to the mid 100's a feasible thing, especially as your base salary increases and you get more established in the part time clinical position. Part of why I advocate for this type of time split is because clinical work can be lucrative as a side job. Teaching as an adjunct is not really going to earn you as much money on an hourly basis if you pursue that as a side job, although it can be a very rewarding side job still if you are spending all of your time in a full time position doing clinical work.

Just food for thought. I'm sort of responding to the thread in general based on what I've seen a few years into the profession.

 

[WisNeuro]

At a VA, the story is a little bit different. I'm pretty sure they allow for you to have a side job. While the starting salaries are pretty good, the ceiling is not as high as it is in an AMC setting, unless perhaps you pursue an administrative role to get to the highest grade. However, most VA psychologists are going to report a nice QOL, and if they can supplement their income, that's also nice.
.

Correct. The VA gives 0 ****s what you do outside of your scheduled tour time, as long it's not a felony or running for partisan office. And yes, our starting salaries are generally higher, but our ceiling lower if you stay a GS-13 and don't move into a supervisory (GS-14) or chief role (GS-15). At that same time, I never work >40 hours a week, have a nice 401k, generous paid leave time, good health insurance, and only have to do 3 evaluations a week to meet productivity.

 

[Pragma]

It's probably worth mentioning that side jobs can go beyond clinical or teaching/research. Organizational consultation, running CEU workshops, forensic consultation, etc are also some potentially lucrative side gigs.

 

[WisNeuro]

It's probably worth mentioning that side jobs can go beyond clinical or teaching/research. Organizational consultation, running CEU workshops, forensic consultation, etc are also some potentially lucrative side gigs.

Yeah, I know a good amount of neuropsychs in the VA who do forensic work on the side for a very good side income.

 

[Pragma]

Correct. The VA gives 0 ****s what you do outside of your scheduled tour time, as long it's not a felony or running for partisan office. And yes, our starting salaries are generally higher, but our ceiling lower if you stay a GS-13 and don't move into a supervisory (GS-14) or chief role (GS-15). At that same time, I never work >40 hours a week, have a nice 401k, generous paid leave time, good health insurance, and only have to do 3 evaluations a week to meet productivity.

Only 3? Wow, sounds a lot different than VA positions I am familiar with.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

My particular place of employment has some ridiculous expectations for 80-90% productivity with billable face to face hours...A fellow neuropsychologist colleague calls it "paying your dues" however I am not even getting loan reimbursement.

If you were a physical therapist or similar…I can see an 80% productivity standard, but there is way more non-billable in what we do.

 

[WisNeuro]

Only 3? Wow, sounds a lot different than VA positions I am familiar with.

Varies, the 4 VA's I have/will be affiliated with have all been 3-4 evals a week for productivity standards. That is with some psychometrist assistance.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Yeah, I know a good amount of neuropsychs in the VA who do forensic work on the side for a very good side income.

That would offer a solid work/life balance. I have a pretty good balance now, but very soon I'll be pushed to sign a non-compete, and capping my outside opportunities will really cramp my earning potential.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Varies, the 4 VA's I have/will be affiliated with have all been 3-4 evals a week for productivity standards. That is with some psychometrist assistance.

I don't think I could ever go back to doing my own testing. For specific types of assessment (e.g. capacity evaluation) I still do the testing, but everything else is 100% tech with me handling the intake and feedback.

I've been reviewing different productivity standards and there is quite a variance in the neuropsych world….literally double in some place (3 v. 6 per wk), while other places are more revenue based. I prefer the latter bc I trust my business skills more than I trust RVU metrics using flawed 3rd party data.

 

[WisNeuro]

If I were private, I wouldn't do my own testing. But, doing most of my own, but only having 3 evals a week is fine with me. Still loads of time left over for supervision and research. At some point I can see jumping ship from the VA to something more lucrative, but it works pretty well right now in early family planning arenas.

 

[Pragma]

Varies, the 4 VA's I have/will be affiliated with have all been 3-4 evals a week for productivity standards. That is with some psychometrist assistance.

Just out of curiosity, to what extent does that vary across VAs? Do productivity standards get set by individual administrators, or is there a wider policy? I'm assuming that because I have seen variability based on VA neuropsychologists I've spoken with, that local Chiefs might be determining what productivity standards need to be met? I'd also imagine those might vary depending on whether there is a training program there or not?

 

[WisNeuro]

Just out of curiosity, to what extent does that vary across VAs? Do productivity standards get set by individual administrators, or is there a wider policy? I'm assuming that because I have seen variability based on VA neuropsychologists I've spoken with, that local Chiefs might be determining what productivity standards need to be met? I'd also imagine those might vary depending on whether there is a training program there or not?

Definitely varies. By admin and by training site. I get productivity offsets for supervision. Always a good idea to ask what expected productivity is when you apply.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

If I were private, I wouldn't do my own testing. But, doing most of my own, but only having 3 evals a week is fine with me. Still loads of time left over for supervision and research. At some point I can see jumping ship from the VA to something more lucrative, but it works pretty well right now in early family planning arenas.

We are changing over to an RVU system (ugh), so it'll be interesting to see how the tech is valued v. doing my own testing. I'm still waiting on #'s before I decide anything. Thankfully I get a pretty large chunk of my clinical time bought out for other duties, so while I"m "clinical", I don't need to bill nearly as much as some of my colleagues to hit/exceed my #'s.

 

[WisNeuro]

As a point of reference RVU for your own testing here = 1.86/hour, RVU for psych tech =.55 an hour, so, less than a third.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

My VA has also switched from a % utilization metric (which was previously, I believe, set at 80% billable and then got bumped up to 90% billable) to an RVU system. I don't know where my current annual RVU target came from, but as things currently stand, it's very attainable (I'm actually on course to finish well above goal, in part due to a lower than average no-show rate). Unfortunately, being above goal here doesn't translate into much other than my target possibly being adjusted up next year. But owing to the various benefits WisNeuro mentioned, I'm not complaining.

As for my workload, I test 4 patients/week (no psychometrists) and see anywhere from 2-4 feedback sessions/week (1 hour each). I also participate in training (e.g., provide some direct case supervision, deliver a lecture every few weeks, attend training committee meetings) and sit on a workgroup or two, which all currently comes from of my report writing time. As with WisNeuro, research is all done off the clock. I'd like to get involved in some side work eventually, but still need to actually get licensed in the state in which I live.

 

[Pragma]

I never really wanted to rely on clinical work as my primary source of income, so that's why I went the academic route. Where I'm at, productivity is only defined to the extent that you fulfill your contractual course obligations (e.g., teach 2-3 courses each term). Beyond that, in TT positions they also expect you to make research contributions and participate in "service." In some places, research productivity is expected at a particular level (e.g., 1-2 pubs per year), which is pretty manageable if you have data. Service is never really defined well where I am at. I just get involved in a handful of committees and then explain what I did for the University whenever I have an evaluation. Act as a reviewer for some journals and be involved on some level in professional organizations, and you are covered. I can buy out of teaching with grant funding or if I can get my admins to sign off on research project development - for instance, I can get time off teaching to write a grant or produce more manuscripts than normal. You can also make some solid extra money for doing summer teaching - which I don't really mind doing because you have so much time off anyways, it is hardly a bother.

Overall, it's pretty low stress, with lots of flexibility. I think people that get stressed at places like mine are ones who put too much time into teaching. If you can learn to be efficient about it and continue to teach the same classes as much as you can, then all you have to do at that point is focus on the students because the rest becomes more automatic. If they kept giving you new preps every year, then you'd have to spend more time in course development, which is stimulating but time consuming. While it is usually a grind the first couple of years in a TT position while you get established, if you work smart, you also never will be working more than 40 hours a week (except around the grant cycle deadlines).

Going to a clinical setting part time is more enjoyable for me at that point, because I'm not feeling burned out on patients and I'm able to focus more on a smaller number of cases. On a part time basis, I'll do 3-4 cases per week (with techs).

I'd say it is to each their own. I got into the profession for variety, and interestingly enough, it is engaging in that variety that makes it more profitable. I might get tired of teaching the same stuff at some point, but then maybe I'll do more research or develop some new courses. What's great about being well trained is the fact that we're capable of working across so many different settings. I could see myself varying the amount of time I spend in research vs. teaching vs. clinical work, perhaps by making a move at some point to a different type of institution. But just like everyone has mentioned about the greatness of VA benefits and QOL, I'd say it's pretty hard to leave the high level of scheduling flexibility, solid benefits, summers off, and the general university culture of where I'm at. There's also the job security component, which is nice to be able to count on.

 

[medium rare]

One should be able to net $100k easily in full time private practice as a psychologist - even by taking insurance. If not, your overhead is too high or you are not treating your practice like a business.

There are many factors that contribute to unsuccessful practices, but, generally speaking, I've known too many psychologists with little to no business savvy.

 

[deleted343839]

For instance, a lot of AMC type positions have non-compete clauses. Therefore, if you are primarily a clinician, you can't do a PP in some of those cases. You might be able to moonlight teaching a course or something, or maybe doing some kind of research part time, but generally, those jobs are demanding enough because of the setting.

You describe my situation to a T. I am primarily clinical with protected time and research productivity expectations. I'd like to have a small practice on the side, but my contract prohibits me from earning any money from it. I can earn money from consulting, honoraria, journal editing, etc., though those add up to maybe 5% of my gross income. My day job is too time consuming to do much on the side.

Last year I was offered a job at a nearby AMC that would have banned me from opening a practice within x miles of the institution for x number of years after terminating the position, regardless of cause. It was one factor, though not the main one, that led me to stay where I am.

 

[Loansforlife]

If you were a physical therapist or similar…I can see an 80% productivity standard, but there is way more non-billable in what we do.

My point exactly, and I have gone head to head with the manager more than a few times over this. We are only provided 30 min of paperwork time daily. I can run anywhere from 4-10 evaluations a week.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Yikes.

I know it can vary greatly depending on setting, population seen, acuity, etc. I tend to have a ton of paperwork, as 80% of my clinical work is assessment only. I can use templates for consults, which has saved me quite a bit of time.

 

[ClinicalABA]

In my observation, there's some spot on info here regarding various salaries based on the settings/types of work. As others have alluded to, you need to be mindful of things like productivity expectations/requirements, as well as other benefits. I'm in a clinical position with productivity requirements of an average of ~53%. Salary is in line with what erg posted. I make 10-20k from adjuncting (1-2 grad courses per semester) plus some extra from consultation. I could get bonuses for peer reviewed publications. At a minimum, there's an expectation of presenting at 2-3 regional conferences per year, plus a national conference every 2 years. All my organizational dues, licensure, certification, and ceu fees are covered, plus I get a cell phone. All expenses associated with attending the appropriate national conference are also covered. Also, a friend gave me pizza and a six pack of good beer to help him move a few months back. I generally work 50-60 hours per week, M-F, with an occasional 4-8 hours on a weekend if I need to catch up on reports or grade papers. As you can see, there's a lot more than "day job" salary to consider.

 

[Chitowned]

Hello everyone,

I hope you all are well. For a little while now, I have been interested in crafting a "side gig" for myself to supplement my primary employment (VA psychologist). Now that I have reached the point of being a (nearly) licensed psychologist in a VA, I am looking to learn more about my options.

One thing that could be pretty helpful is a list of the part-time opportunities that are typically available for psychologists. I am not aware of any comprehensive list with this information, so if one does not exist, it would be helpful to learn of these positions from individuals on this forum.

Looking through various posts, it seems like several of you do have part-time work. I am wondering, how did you all go about discovering and securing these opportunities?

Also, were there specific strategies you engaged in along the way to make yourselves more desirable for these sorts of positions (I know this will depend on the type of position, so I am looking for general ideas)? I have had some experiences during training with organizational development and consulting, so I feel that I am best suited for these types of positions. However, I am certainly interested in learning more about other opportunities outside of teaching/research. Thanks in advance for any information that can be shared.