Clinical volunteering

[oobie]

Hey guys,

I am planning to apply this upcoming cycle and I do not have any clinical volunteering. I do have some shadowing, and am planning to get a lot more shadowing this summer before I submit my apps. Here's the rest of my app:

Junior, going to be incoming senior
Double majoring in Neuroscience & Cognitive Science, Human Anatomy and Physiology; double minoring in Chemistry, Spanish

3.87GPA, taking MCATs on the 17th of May (hopefully 30+)
4 years of research: includes 2 poster presentations, 1 publication of gene sequence on NCBI database
Triathlon club for 2 years (will be three next year) -- nearly 15 hours a week
Ballroom dance club for 2 years -- nearly 5 hours a week
1 year in the fencing club -- 6 hours a week
3 years of tutoring -- both as volunteer for the first two years, and this last year for pay: tutoring math up to calculus, chemistry, physics -- maybe 2 hours a week for ~30 weeks a year
3 years of transcribing TED talks into spanish subtitles -- an hour a week for ~20 weeks a year
1 year volunteering at the Poetry Center at my university -- about 2 hours a week for 30 weeks a year
8 hours of shadowing a physician (I'm planning on getting at least 40 more this summer)

Working on a book of poetry right now which I will either talk about in my personal statement or in my interviews.

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[Oso]

It seems like you have zero clinical experience-- experience actually interacting with patients. Shadowing does not count because you're mostly just observing. Also, 8 hours of shadowing at this point is nothing. You need to have a decent amount of this stuff done by the time you actually apply. The rest of your application is very strong, but you're still missing these essential components. Honestly, if I were you I would consider taking a gap year. You could do some long term clinical volunteering (1 year, at least), boost up the shadowing, and make sure you beast the mcat. With those things, your application would be truly awesome. Just my opinion though.

 

[oobie]

I've heard shadowing does count, at least from some people. I'm trying to get in to some type of volunteering this summer before I send out applications in july. I'm right now debating if I can get in this cycle or if I should take a gap year.

 

[Catalystik]

Hey guys,

I am planning to apply this upcoming cycle and I do not have any clinical volunteering. I do have some shadowing, and am planning to get a lot more shadowing this summer before I submit my apps. Here's the rest of my app:

Junior, going to be incoming senior
Double majoring in Neuroscience & Cognitive Science, Human Anatomy and Physiology; double minoring in Chemistry, Spanish

3.87GPA, taking MCATs on the 17th of May (hopefully 30+)
4 years of research: includes 2 poster presentations, 1 publication of gene sequence on NCBI database
Triathlon club for 2 years (will be three next year) -- nearly 15 hours a week
Ballroom dance club for 2 years -- nearly 5 hours a week
1 year in the fencing club -- 6 hours a week
3 years of tutoring -- both as volunteer for the first two years, and this last year for pay: tutoring math up to calculus, chemistry, physics -- maybe 2 hours a week for ~30 weeks a year
3 years of transcribing TED talks into spanish subtitles -- an hour a week for ~20 weeks a year
1 year volunteering at the Poetry Center at my university -- about 2 hours a week for 30 weeks a year
8 hours of shadowing a physician (I'm planning on getting at least 40 more this summer)

Working on a book of poetry right now which I will either talk about in my personal statement or in my interviews.

Active clinical experience need not be acquired through volunteerism. You can get this experience through the workplace or by involvement in patient-based research experiences. But you do need to show us that you know what it means to be around sick and injured folks and that you are comfortable communicating with them.

With only 8 shadowing hours, how do you know you want to be a doctor? How have you tested your fitness for this career? How have you come to understand the day-to-day obligations of a physician and the challenges of medical practice? Maybe you've found a way to answer these questions in some other way, but if not, I agree with Oso: Wait a year before you apply so you can gain these experiences and be sure medicine is right for you.

 

[oobie]

Active clinical experience need not be acquired through volunteerism. You can get this experience through the workplace or by involvement in patient-based research experiences. But you do need to show us that you know what it means to be around sick and injured folks and that you are comfortable communicating with them.

With only 8 shadowing hours, how do you know you want to be a doctor? How have you tested your fitness for this career? How have you come to understand the day-to-day obligations of a physician and the challenges of medical practice? Maybe you've found a way to answer these questions in some other way, but if not, I agree with Oso: Wait a year before you apply so you can gain these experiences and be sure medicine is right for you.

Short story: Back in high school, I worked for a program called Extended Family Disability Services, which was pretty much taking care of and working with young adults with disabilities. They were so nice to me, and we all became a family. But I knew that in the real world, they were being discriminated against, from schooling to getting a job, and I thought it was not fair. I wanted to make a difference.
Fast forward to college, and I do a lot of research because I feel this is one of the best ways I can help out the community, and when I did my shadowing, the doctor came across a seemingly normal case. It was just a stomachache, but what was revealed was that the patient was actually suffering from cancer. I wanted to go back in time to let her know.

So I think I've figured out why I want to be a doctor. I'm just wondering would more shadowing (say like 40 - 50 hours) constitute the "requirement" that med schools look for in an applicant. I want to reiterate that I am not doing the shadowing as a checklist item; I want to delve more into what a physician does, what type of physician appeals most to me, etc. In general I want to learn.

 

[dudewheresmymd]

Short story: Back in high school, I worked for a program called Extended Family Disability Services, which was pretty much taking care of and working with young adults with disabilities. They were so nice to me, and we all became a family. But I knew that in the real world, they were being discriminated against, from schooling to getting a job, and I thought it was not fair. I wanted to make a difference.
Fast forward to college, and I do a lot of research because I feel this is one of the best ways I can help out the community, and when I did my shadowing, the doctor came across a seemingly normal case. It was just a stomachache, but what was revealed was that the patient was actually suffering from cancer. I wanted to go back in time to let her know.

So I think I've figured out why I want to be a doctor. I'm just wondering would more shadowing (say like 40 - 50 hours) constitute the "requirement" that med schools look for in an applicant. I want to reiterate that I am not doing the shadowing as a checklist item; I want to delve more into what a physician does, what type of physician appeals most to me, etc. In general I want to learn.

you need more clinical experience. 8 hours is by no means enough. Someone can spend 8 hours in the hospital for an ER visit. Does that mean one has clinical experience?

Shadowing is not the same as clinical volunteering. On the AMCAS they are discrete entities. One section is for Physician Shadowing/Clinical Observation and one for Community Service Medical/Clinical (things like hospital volunteering)40-50 hours of shadowing is not the same as volunteering in a hospital for 40-50 hours. 40-50 hours may not even be enough at some schools (though you'd have to consult each school that you're interested in...some tell you and others don't).

As echoed above, a gap year might help you obtain these types of things and make you a much stronger candidate! Remember you want to avoid being a reapplicant if at all possible.

 

[oobie]

you need more clinical experience. 8 hours is by no means enough. Someone can spend 8 hours in the hospital for an ER visit. Does that mean one has clinical experience?

Shadowing is not the same as clinical volunteering. 40-50 hours of shadowing is not the same as volunteering in a hospital for 40-50 hours.

On the AMCAS they are discrete entities. One section is for Physician Shadowing/Clinical Observation and one for Community Service Medical/Clinical.

I know I need more clinical experience. I was just wondering how important clinical volunteering was compared to other things. I'm hoping to get quite a bit more this summer before I submit my apps.

 

[dudewheresmymd]

I know I need more clinical experience. I was just wondering how important clinical volunteering was compared to other things. I'm hoping to get quite a bit more this summer before I submit my apps.

It's rather important as Catalystik mentioned..the premed advisor at our school says that clinical volunteering is more important than research and school extracurriculars as it shows that you can actually interact with patients and know what it's like to be in a healthcare setting (doesn't have to be a hospital, just has to be around patients)

With only 8 shadowing hours, how do you know you want to be a doctor? How have you tested your fitness for this career? How have you come to understand the day-to-day obligations of a physician and the challenges of medical practice? Maybe you've found a way to answer these questions in some other way, but if not, I agree with Oso: Wait a year before you apply so you can gain these experiences and be sure medicine is right for you.

 

[oobie]

So, I am enrolled in a research program this summer in which my PI said she wants to try to get my work published (in a small journal). I am also planning to do some volunteering thus summer at a hospice. So, my question is: should I get in crazy hours of volunteering and drop out of the research program or would a few hours a week (say like 6 or so) suffice if I were to do it until I submitted my AMCAS (which will be in early July I think) and into the fall semester, possibly into spring semester too? I have heard that med schools care about what you got from the volunteering, not really the amount of time you spent in it...but I want to make it through to interviews.

 

[Catalystik]

So, I am enrolled in a research program this summer in which my PI said she wants to try to get my work published (in a small journal). I am also planning to do some volunteering thus summer at a hospice.

So, my question is: should I get in crazy hours of volunteering and drop out of the research program or would a few hours a week (say like 6 or so) suffice if I were to do it until I submitted my AMCAS (which will be in early July I think) and into the fall semester, possibly into spring semester too? I have heard that med schools care about what you got from the volunteering, not really the amount of time you spent in it...but I want to make it through to interviews.

Med schools do care about what you got from the volunteering, but they also like to see evidence that you've thoughtfully considered medicine over a prolonged period of time. It should be clear from the application that you did not make an impulsive decision. Six clinical hours per week for three months will not hold up well compared to the average of three hours per week over 1.5 years academic years. But neither would 40 hours per week for 3 months. So keep your research gig.

What might work in your favor is a change on the AMCAS application where you can enter future planned hours for an activity. I strongly recommend that you plan to continue the clinical activity through the entire application year. Personally, I doubt that future hours will count for much (though YMMV), but you can keep schools apprised of your completed plans with Secondary essays, update letters (where allowed), and interview conversations (if you get that far). If worse comes to worst, and you have to reapply in a year, your application would be much stronger on the second round.

Don't forget to do the shadowing you planned, too.

 

[oobie]

Med schools do care about what you got from the volunteering, but they also like to see evidence that you've thoughtfully considered medicine over a prolonged period of time. It should be clear from the application that you did not make an impulsive decision. Six clinical hours per week for three months will not hold up well compared to the average of three hours per week over 1.5 years academic years. But neither would 40 hours per week for 3 months. So keep your research gig.

What might work in your favor is a change on the AMCAS application where you can enter future planned hours for an activity. I strongly recommend that you plan to continue the clinical activity through the entire application year. Personally, I doubt that future hours will count for much (though YMMV), but you can keep schools apprised of your completed plans with Secondary essays, update letters (where allowed), and interview conversations (if you get that far). If worse comes to worst, and you have to reapply in a year, your application would be much stronger on the second round.

Don't forget to do the shadowing you planned, too.

Thank you Catalystik! I really appreciate your help! I didn't know there was that option on the AMCAS application; I personally think that might help me get through some med school's primary, possibly secondary screenings. I most definitely will not forget about the shadowing!

 

[oobie]

I recently found out something I had done earlier might qualify for clinical experience! I provided respite (and a little bit of habilitation) for adults with disabilities. Would this count as clinical experience? (I did it for a year)

 

[Goro]

Shadowing is finding out what a doctor's day is like, and learning to appreciate the differences between doctors, like a Primary Care one and a radiologist.

We've rejected people like you who never set foot in a hospital. You need to show what you're getting into. Your others ECs are fantastic...I was on my colleges fencing team (with epee) and so have a soft spot for fencers.

The respite work definitely is a step in the right direction. It might work, but what I'm afraid of is that you'd make it to interviews, only to be slamed for the lack of patient contact. I thus suggest taking the gap year.

I've heard shadowing does count, at least from some people. I'm trying to get in to some type of volunteering this summer before I send out applications in july. I'm right now debating if I can get in this cycle or if I should take a gap year.

 

[Zach Morris]

Clinical volunteering is a big deal if you have virtually none of it. Volunteering like crazy for 6 weeks will make the experience seem unnaturally forced.

It seems like you are pretty dead set on applying this cycle. Would you consider a gap year? That way, you could ensure you crush the MCATs and get the clinical volunteering you need. From what I know, you want at least 100 hours volunteering in a clinical setting. It's hard to convince adcoms that you are committed to medicine with no clinical volunteer hours. Take a gap year. That way, you can ensure your application is strong in all facets and be supremely confident that all of your bases are covered.

***REALLY IMPORTANT - submitting applications in a very timely manner. You can be a great applicant but if you submit your primaries in mid July, you are missing opportunities. Submitting primaries in July + 1 month of processing (at least) will put you on the back end of an application cycle. AVOID DOING THAT AT ALL COSTS.

In sum: my best advice is to take a gap year. Get the clinical volunteer hours you need over the course of the year. Study hard and perform well on the MCATs. That way, when next year's application cycle comes around, you will be able to submit your primaries right when they can be submitted.

 

[oobie]

Clinical volunteering is a big deal if you have virtually none of it. Volunteering like crazy for 6 weeks will make the experience seem unnaturally forced.

It seems like you are pretty dead set on applying this cycle. Would you consider a gap year? That way, you could ensure you crush the MCATs and get the clinical volunteering you need. From what I know, you want at least 100 hours volunteering in a clinical setting. It's hard to convince adcoms that you are committed to medicine with no clinical volunteer hours. Take a gap year. That way, you can ensure your application is strong in all facets and be supremely confident that all of your bases are covered.

***REALLY IMPORTANT - submitting applications in a very timely manner. You can be a great applicant but if you submit your primaries in mid July, you are missing opportunities. Submitting primaries in July + 1 month of processing (at least) will put you on the back end of an application cycle. AVOID DOING THAT AT ALL COSTS.

In sum: my best advice is to take a gap year. Get the clinical volunteer hours you need over the course of the year. Study hard and perform well on the MCATs. That way, when next year's application cycle comes around, you will be able to submit your primaries right when they can be submitted.

I am considering taking a gap year, but I would prefer to apply this cycle. I'm getting everything prepared now, and will apply as soon as I get my MCAT scores back (took them on the 17th of May) -- provided it is 30+. Plus, I am going to start writing my secondaries as soon as they are posted on SDN so I can get those out very quickly as well. I just realized that I do have clinical experience (not exactly volunteering because I got paid for it) with providing respite for young adults with disabilities:

So adding on 1 year of respite @ 6 hours a week, plus starting hospice and staying on for 1 year @ maybe 4 hours a week should look pretty good I would think. I acknowledge that I need to submit apps asap. I just want to make sure I did well enough on my MCATs.

 

[The Milkman]

If you believe you did decent on the MCAT, you can still submit your AMCAS in June with just one school so that your application can at least get verified. Then you can go back and add more schools that are in your range after you get your scores. But if you're waiting to actually start the hospice or another EC that you wanted to put on your application for clinical exposure, I could see waiting til you have some of that.

 

[Zach Morris]

I am not an adcom or anything but I would be careful about putting down clinical experience from high school as your lone completed clinical experience at the time of submission. I don't know anything about the whole future hours thing on AMCAS application but maybe that will work out just fine for you. It's risky, but it could be fine. I just feel like adcoms may question your commitment. Definitely be prepared to explain why you haven't volunteered or worked in a clinical setting for so many years. Best of luck.

 

[oobie]

If you believe you did decent on the MCAT, you can still submit your AMCAS in June with just one school so that your application can at least get verified. Then you can go back and add more schools that are in your range after you get your scores. But if you're waiting to actually start the hospice or another EC that you wanted to put on your application for clinical exposure, I could see waiting til you have some of that.

Do you know if I can add stuff on as I go along? Also, do you know why it takes like a month to get the application verified?

I am not an adcom or anything but I would be careful about putting down clinical experience from high school as your lone completed clinical experience at the time of submission. I don't know anything about the whole future hours thing on AMCAS application but maybe that will work out just fine for you. It's risky, but it could be fine. I just feel like adcoms may question your commitment. Definitely be prepared to explain why you haven't volunteered or worked in a clinical setting for so many years. Best of luck.

Well, generally speaking, the reason I didn't do any clinical volunteering for most of my collegiate career was because I had no mode of transportation. I lived very near or on campus and didn't have a car. (the hospitals were at least 5- 10 miles away, other than my college hospital which didn't really have anything for clinical volunteering other than paperwork, which isn't really clinical). In addition, I went through my first two years of college thinking I would be headed towards the Ph.D. route, until the ups and downs and anguish of research got to me. Thus, why I volunteered elsewhere (like the poetry center or tutoring), but not specifically in a patient setting. Does this make sense? Does it explain why well enough or do I have to do more introspection on this?

 

[Zach Morris]

It takes a month because there are a ton of people applying to medical school and they have to make sure your transcript matches up with the information that you have presented, process your app, etc. Mine actually took almost 6 weeks to get verified this year.

You can't really add stuff as you go along, no. You can send update letters and whatnot but depending on the school's policy, they may not even look at them until you have completed an interview. Look into that.

If you get to an interview and you tell them that the reason that you did not volunteer in a clinical setting was bc of a lack of transportation, then you will not look good at all. The PhD excuse seems legit but you still had this past year that you didn't volunteer, even though you knew you wanted to pursue medicine. People who want to go to medical school will find a way to get to the hospital to volunteer/work whether it be by shuttle, public transit, borrowing a friend's car, walking, running, biking, borrowing a friend's bike, etc. Also, did you live at home with access to a car for a summer? Why didn't you volunteer then? <-- a question you may receive during an interview. Volunteering at a poetry place may show you like to help people but it doesn't show that you want to help people in a clinical setting,(i.e. why a physician rather than an english teacher?)

Honestly, you seem like a strong applicant but you do have this one very apparent hole in your application. I think if you took a gap year, you could get the clinical experience you need (shoot for 100+), be able to boost your shadowing hours (20 is a good minimum), score well on your MCAT, and submit your apps early, putting yourself in the best position to gain an acceptance. You would probably be a lock to get an MD acceptance if you score decent and get those numbers up. Again, I am not an advisor or on any admissions committee, but I think it would be risky to go forward with an application when your clinical experience was from high school. Again, this is only one opinion, so you need to do what you feel is best for yourself. Best of luck!

 

[The Milkman]

Do you know if I can add stuff on as I go along? Also, do you know why it takes like a month to get the application verified?

You can't add activities to AMCAS after you submit, and the earlier you submit the quicker it takes to get verified typically. But on many secondaries there will be questions like what are you doing this upcoming year, has anything changed on your application, or is there anything else you want to tell us.