Comfort vs Challenge *lengthy first post, sorry!

[newms1]

I recently had the extremely good fortune of being accepted to several medical schools - one of them a prestigious top tier school.

For the most part, I have been convinced to attend the more prestigious school because of the supposed better quality of teaching, better resources, and abundance of opportunities and "doors opened" that come with going to a highly regarded school. However, I must say that I felt the least comfortable at this school out of all the schools I interviewed at and revisited.

The reason? I feel intimidated. At the other schools (which happen to be less prestigious), I felt more at ease and I bonded really well with the applicants/revistees. People also seemed much more laid back - and they seem to have a greater number of students from less priviledged backgrounds, so I felt like we related better to each other. At the prestigious school, however, I have this overwhelming sense of "what am I doing here??" I didn't feel like I jibed well with most of the people there. Many seemed wealthy and privileged (I don't come from a lot of wealth) and everyone seemed so exceptionally outgoing and accomplished - judging by the other acceptances they had. I was also turned off by how aloof many of the students seemed to be, or maybe that was just my impression?

I presume one of the reasons I was accepted was because of my stated aspirations of changing the face of healthcare. However, as I've gone through the md app process (interviews, meet and greets, second looks etcs), I've begun to wonder if my admittance to the top tier school was a fluke and maybe I'm not cut out for the kind of leadership I aspire to be.

Will I grow out of this as I go through med school? I don't want to sacrifice the opportunities available to me at the top tier school just because of performance anxiety - but I'm concerned that my feelings of inadequacy are going to impact my ability to succeed and do well in medical school.

Shouldn't I attend the school that feels like the best fit/most comfortable environment for me? Or should I challenge myself by surrounding myself with exceptional peers who will push me to be all that I can be?

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[Mosa]

If they accepted you, the ADCOM who all have many years of experience most likely, believe you can handle the work. Seriously, if you got in, you can do it! Personally, I always go with the more challenging experiences academically speaking. You want to grow and mature, right? That means you must be challenged. Just my opinion, and it's worked for me so far. Congrats on your acceptances!

 

[DokterMom]

Heavy questions --
And by the way, congratulations! Clearly the ADCOM at the Top Tier disagrees with your modest self-assessment.

Have you ever felt like this before? Or is this a new sensation?
Have you ever really been out of your league? And if so, what happened?

Is downplaying your abilities/worth a persistent trend you recognize and ought to resist?

What kind of circumstances bring out your best performance? Would it be a place where you feel nurtured? Or one where you have to 'paddle furiously' to keep up?

Is there a cost differential worth noting?

Do you plan to go into research or a highly competitive specialty where a prestigious name would help you achieve your goals?

 

[newms1]

You sound like the type of person who will 20 years from now regret not going to the more prestigious school.

Thanks for pointing that out UWotm8. I would not regret going to the less prestigious school if it means I'll feel like I fit in and know that I'll be happy, but I realize the way I phrased this post it's obvious I'm leaning towards the "better' school. I guess what I'm trying to get at is - has anyone else experienced this kind of discomfort at a "better" school over other schools?

Is it a possibility that I'm going to regret surrounding myself with people who make me question my abilities?

 

[newms1]

If they accepted you, the ADCOM who all have many years of experience most likely, believe you can handle the work. Seriously, if you got in, you can do it! Personally, I always go with the more challenging experiences academically speaking. You want to grow and mature, right? That means you must be challenged. Just my opinion, and it's worked for me so far. Congrats on your acceptances!

Thanks for the encouragement Mosa! Glad things have been working out for you! I agree that it's good to challenge yourself academically, but I wonder if surrounding youself with people who you consider your equals would be better than being surrounded by geniuses all the time?

Heavy questions --
And by the way, congratulations! Clearly the ADCOM at the Top Tier disagrees with your modest self-assessment.

Have you ever felt like this before? Or is this a new sensation?
Have you ever really been out of your league? And if so, what happened?

Is downplaying your abilities/worth a persistent trend you recognize and ought to resist?

What kind of circumstances bring out your best performance? Would it be a place where you feel nurtured? Or one where you have to 'paddle furiously' to keep up?

Is there a cost differential worth noting?

Do you plan to go into research or a highly competitive specialty where a prestigious name would help you achieve your goals?

Wow, thank you DoktorMom for the good questions - indeed some of which I have given some thought to before. It's a bit of a new sensation - particularly it started with the med app cycle and meeting other applicants. I've felt out of my league in some of my previous experiences. Usually I get really anxious and manage to make a fool of myself (sometimes), but I always learn a lot from it.

Perhaps I should stop downplaying my abilities, you're absolutely right on that.

I definitely need a more nurturing environment to succeed and I definitely wonder if the combination of comfort + lower cost would make the other school a better option.

I plan on going into not so competitive residencies, not sure about research or leadership but it's a possibility.

PS - Thanks everyone for your thoughtful and speedy replies!

 

[survivordo]

Two things I would consider. Where will you be happy? How much $$$$ is each school? Whether it is beneficial for you to attend the top tier school depends somewhat on your future aspirations for fellowship and residency. DO you think the name will help? Would you rather be a big fish in a small pond?

The top tier school could cause you to push yourself and excel, it could also cause you to get frustrated by all the D-bags present. You decide.

Survivor DO

 

[chemsmith]

This is a very good question to ask yourself. If you feel that you might perform better (perhaps even stand out more?) at the comfortable school then you are right to feel conflicted.

 

[DokterMom]

I definitely need a more nurturing environment to succeed and I definitely wonder if the combination of comfort + lower cost would make the other school a better option.

I plan on going into not so competitive residencies, not sure about research or leadership but it's a possibility.

There's your answer.
And don't you dare feel bad about it! (It takes strength to go against the crowd, in case you feel like you're taking the 'easy' way out.) Recognizing what it is about a place that brings out your best is a valuable skill, and one that will serve you well. I can think of many instances in my own (considerably longer) life experience where that knowledge (or going against it) played out in very predictable ways.

Are you out to cure patients? Or out to cure cancer? If it's the former, go to the school that will make you a better doctor, not the one that will give you the superior credentials. That absolutely might be the more nurturing school - because what single quality (once one gets beyond core competence) is more important than nurturing in a really good doctor?

 

[Nymphicus]

Any medical school will challenge you.

 

[Guero]

Any medical school will challenge you.

Very true.

OP, I know exactly how you feel. I recommend going where you feel most comfortable, as it will undoubtedly affect your academic performance and mental health. I chose to go to a much more expensive school because I knew I'd be far more comfortable there than my cheaper schools. Either way, I'm sure you'll make the best choice for yourself in the end.

For those focused on prestige, one of my mentors once said, "Would you rather graduate at the top of your class at a mid tier school or the bottom of your class at a top tier school?" I thought that was a fairly poignant statement.

 

[Guero]

Very true.

OP, I know exactly how you feel. I recommend going where you feel most comfortable, as it will undoubtedly affect your academic performance and mental health. I chose to go to a much more expensive school because I knew I'd be far more comfortable there than my cheaper schools. Either way, I'm sure you'll make the best choice for yourself in the end.

For those focused on prestige, one of my mentors once said, "Would you rather graduate at the top of your class at a mid tier school or the bottom of your class at a top tier school?" I thought that was a fairly poignant statement.

I'm just bumping this to reiterate my own advice above. After the above post, I received a scholarship offer at a cheaper school where I knew I wouldn't be as comfortable. That offer came a mere 2 days before the May 15th deadline to maintain only one acceptance. In fact, it came down to choosing between my number one choice, where I was miraculously accepted, and a cheaper state school to which I was accepted long ago, holding out in case a scholarship offer came...and that also miraculously happened. The price difference was immense: ~$375k total cost of attendance versus less than $150k. I felt obligated and was urged by many mentors to take the scholarship.

Now, I'm not in ANY WAY denigrating or complaining about my current school. It's fantastic, with awesome peers and awesome faculty. I just know I would've been more comfortable at my top choice due to its region and tolerant atmosphere. Sure, some things would be academically better there than here. Likewise, there are amazing, unique clinical opportunities at my current school that I couldn't get anywhere else in the nation. I also don't mind the rating gap, top 20 vs mid tier, due to what I stated above in the last line. For me, it all came down to region.

So just keep that in mind as you all near May 15th and even after, when those waitlists begin to start moving. Good luck.


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[Guero]

Bumping as May 15 approaches in case those with impending uncertainty haven't taken a gander at this thread. (Mods, if inappropriate, pls just shoot me PM; last bump this cycle.)


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[mmmcdowe]

Even though you aren't naming schools, I'm moving this to SSD since you'll probably get more interest there.

 

[Youknowgo]

I am currently in the same situation, battling between UIC and Northwestern. How vast of a gap between the rigor and difficulty of work would you guys say there is between the two schools?

Im definitely and very intimidated by northwestern and feel alot more comfortable with UIC. Location wise northwestern blows uic out of the water. But isnt it all about how well you do anyways and how you rank in the class? Please enlighten me

 

[Guero]

I am currently in the same situation, battling between UIC and Northwestern. How vast of a gap between the rigor and difficulty of work would you guys say there is between the two schools?

Im definitely and very intimidated by northwestern and feel alot more comfortable with UIC. Location wise northwestern blows uic out of the water. But isnt it all about how well you do anyways and how you rank in the class? Please enlighten me

Forwardig to some colleagues of mine for their input (if they have time).


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[Patros]

I am currently in the same situation, battling between UIC and Northwestern. How vast of a gap between the rigor and difficulty of work would you guys say there is between the two schools?

Im definitely and very intimidated by northwestern and feel alot more comfortable with UIC. Location wise northwestern blows uic out of the water. But isnt it all about how well you do anyways and how you rank in the class? Please enlighten me

I don't think rigor varies much between medical schools, as it does between undergrad colleges. You learn pretty much the same things, although maybe in different sequence. One can argue there would be stiffer competition at Northwestern if the students are higher caliber, but the P/F grading should mitigate that. In the end however, residencies care most about step1 scores and grades in clerkships, and I've never seen evidence that it's harder to do well in clerkships in the more selective schools.

I think if you feel better at UIC, that's the place to be. I don't think Northwestern has that many more resources than UIC, and their research funding is comparable.

 

[mdeast]

I would not let the "am I good enough?" mentality scare you away from a great school. To perfectly honest, your colleagues at any medical school (even the less highly ranked one) will likely be intimidating. Also, it's highly likely that *you* are probably intimidating to other students (even if you don't think you are).

I remember having similar feelings when I was considering which medical school to attend (i.e. everyone is so smart? why did they admit me? how am I going to stand out here? I'm just not this good. These students are crazy accomplished!). The reality is... you will benefit from your peers at a top institution because they will *challenge* you to be better. You will have many challenges and obstacles during your medical career, residency, etc. where you aren't going to be the smartest person in the room. Sometimes stepping outside of your immediate comfort zone isn't a bad thing. Especially in environments that are typically designed to limit competition in order to support personal development and innovation/leadership.

 

[alpinism]

Exactly.

Having more accomplished and motivated classmates will only serve to help your education and career. Also, higher ranked schools tend to have a more laid back and supportive environments.

 

[Member011]

I don't think Northwestern has that many more resources than UIC, and their research funding is comparable.

I heard more than once at my interview that research funding is an issue, even for MSTP students. There is some argument as to which departments cover the funding, so fewer labs are willing to take on students. I was told, "You can't just pick a lab you like and do research there. You have to go where the funding is."

 

[chickensoupdr]

I'm also in a similar situation. I'm between one school that is very prestigious (top 15) and a state school that is considered to be more "low-tier." Right now, I feel more comfortable at the state school - being close to family and friends will definitely be a great support, and the currents students at the state school seem very supportive and laid back. Yet at the same time, I'm having a hard time giving up on the other school because I'm afraid that I will be missing out on a challenging but rewarding opportunity. As for specialties, I have always been interested in pediatrics, surgery, and obstetrics. Leadership and volunteer work are important to me, but research is not one of my priorities. What to do...

 

[Guero]

I'm also in a similar situation. I'm between one school that is very prestigious (top 15) and a state school that is considered to be more "low-tier." Right now, I feel more comfortable at the state school - being close to family and friends will definitely be a great support, and the currents students at the state school seem very supportive and laid back. Yet at the same time, I'm having a hard time giving up on the other school because I'm afraid that I will be missing out on a challenging but rewarding opportunity. As for specialties, I have always been interested in pediatrics, surgery, and obstetrics. Leadership and volunteer work are important to me, but research is not one of my priorities. What to do...

From what I gather from your post, I think you'd be happiest at the state school, especially if you're not into research and continue to strive for those specialties. In addition to the reasons you listed, the state school will also likely be much cheaper than the more prestigious school. GL and congrats on the acceptances!



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[Amygdarya]

In addition to the reasons you listed, the state school will also likely be much cheaper than the more prestigious school. GL and congrats on the acceptances!e

If you pay full COA, yes. But top schools are also often generous with fin aid. In my case, every private school I got accepted to (top 10-20) ended up being cheaper than my state school even after my state school gave me some free money as well - and my state is TX! (meaning schools here are very cheap)

In other words, YYMV but don't discard a private school until you receive your fin aid package.

 

[DokterMom]

If you pay full COA, yes. But top schools are also often generous with fin aid. In my case, every private school I got accepted to (top 10-20) ended up being cheaper than my state school even after my state school gave me some free money as well - and my state is TX! (meaning schools here are very cheap)

In other words, YYMV but don't discard a private school until you receive your fin aid package.

Wow! You must be a very impressive candidate @Amygdarya! My sincerest congratulations. Would you be willing to post a ballpark summary of your numbers and/or ECs or other circumstances that made top privates decide to throw so much money your way? (I ask for the benefit of other Texans who wonder where else to apply, my theory being they need to be very strong candidates for it to be worth their while.) If you'd rather keep that private, I completely understand --

 

[Amygdarya]

Wow! You must be a very impressive candidate @Amygdarya! My sincerest congratulations. Would you be willing to post a ballpark summary of your numbers and/or ECs or other circumstances that made top privates decide to throw so much money your way? (I ask for the benefit of other Texans who wonder where else to apply, my theory being they need to be very strong candidates for it to be worth their while.) If you'd rather keep that private, I completely understand --

Thank you, but no, I'm just poor The private schools I got accepted to were very generous with need-based aid (it is of note that some schools, like Cornell, offer need-based aid only). I mean, my stats and ECs were fine to get me into top schools (non-URM, non-trad, 38/3.96, an advanced degree, a lot of serious research with publications, substantial teaching, volunteering etc. + kind of an interesting life story and very strong LORs), but I didn't get any merit scholarships.
My point is, depending on one's situation and school's generosity (both need and merit based), private schools may end up being cheaper, so don't discount them until you get your fin aid package.

As for whether it's worth for Texans to apply to OOS schools, I think it depends on individual applicant and his/her aspirations. If one wants to stay for residency and practice in TX, I'm not sure it's worth applying OOS because TX has a good number of strong schools that favor IS applicants. If you want to branch out and move to a different part of a country or if your application is strong enough and you want to get into one of the top schools, go for it. I don't think there is any prejudice against TX applicants at OOS schools (unlike some rumors I've read on SDN), but you're right, considering the number and the quality and the cost of TX schools, whether one should apply OOS or not is a fair question.

IMHO, getting into top schools is kind of a crapshoot because there are just so many strong applicants. But if you have high enough stats and solid ECs and apply to enough schools, you're likely to get into at least one. In my experience, having an interesting life story, some major achievements and/or some unusual ECs does help getting into top schools because it makes you stand out among all the other applicants with high stats and solid (but less interesting) ECs. Also, one should take PS, activities descriptions and secondary essays seriously because they are the only opportunity (at least pre interview) to present yourself in the best possible light.

 

[DokterMom]

With all due respect @Amygdarya, you're exactly the kind of applicant I would suggest does apply to top privates. 38/3.96, post-doc with major research and an interesting back-story - plus poor? (Yowza ) Yeah - you're the kind of applicant they would want enough to offer significant financial aid for.

When I suggest that there's a 'prejudice against Texans' for OOS schools, I'm talking about mid-range applicants and mid-tier schools.

 

[H Y F R]

Everything about this thread is ridiculous. No matter what you choose, comfort or challenge, as you say, medschool will be a rude awakening for you dude. There is nothing comforting, soothing, nice, or prestigious about medschool once you start, no matter what school. It's a constant kick in the head, day in day out, until you get your step 1 over with.

 

[Amygdarya]

When I suggest that there's a 'prejudice against Texans' for OOS schools, I'm talking about mid-range applicants and mid-tier schools.

You must be right, OOS adcoms may doubt that a TX applicant will attend their school when there are good - and less expensive! - IS options for him/her. I guess it helps articulating why you want to go to the OOS school in your secondary essays, interviews, letters of interest etc.
So, back to the "is it worth it?" question, it's probably not worth it for Texans to apply OOS unless they really want to go OOS or they apply to top schools (I'm repeating myself here). You're more likely to receive a generous fin aid package from top schools, so if COA is the main consideration, it's probably not worth it for Texans to apply to mid and low tier schools because they will most likely end up being significantly more expensive than TX schools.

 

[Guero]

Everything about this thread is ridiculous. No matter what you choose, comfort or challenge, as you say, medschool will be a rude awakening for you dude. There is nothing comforting, soothing, nice, or prestigious about medschool once you start, no matter what school. It's a constant kick in the head, day in day out, until you get your step 1 over with.

You're missing the point. Yes, med school is inordinately challenging no matter where you go. Yes, it's pure hell until Step 1 is over. But that doesn't change the fact that there are differences in each school and region that can affect matriculants. I've helped several people via PM sort through those differences to choose the best fit after they read through this thread. I only wish I had listened to better advice myself before making my decision.

Perhaps these facets aren't relevant to you. Fine, move on and find a thread that is relevant. Calling a thread ridiculous because you don't personally see its benefit is, well, ridiculously ignorant and unhelpful. Please be more respectful, especially as a future professional.


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