COMLEX PE - Failed!!!!!!

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Doc825

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Are there any kind souls that wish to speak about their experience at the COMLEX-PE? I have no idea what the hell is wrong with this test. I guess I wasn't osteopathic enough for them and so I got a failing grade. I feel that I did everything by the book, literally. I memorized the First Aid: USMLE 2 CS just because I was terrified about this exam and yet I still failed. This test is so bogus but they have you by the ba***. If you don't take it you can't graduate. And spare you if you try to speak with them. I spoke with this lady at the center and she lost her mind and called me unprofessional and rude and hang the phone up. So the moral, be as osteopathic as you can on every patient get a structural exam and some OMT and don't you dare question the ever wise NBOME cause they will put a letter of reprimand on your record.:mad:
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Any of us who has taken this pile of dung the NBOME calls an exam knows exactly how you are feeling. Just remember, the test is bull$hit, and most likely does not accurately reflect your true H&P skills. Just a question-did you do an osteopathic exam of some sort on every patient, regardless of what they came in for? In the real world, you likely will not do this nonsense-but may want to make sure you do at least something along that line when you retake. From what I gather speaking with other people this may be one of the culprits that *could* cause you to fail.

And every year, the AOA folks wonder why rates of unfilled osteo residencies increase, and why so many of us DO graduates are mainstreaming into the allo world. Please tell me why this is so hard for them to figure out???

Keep your chin up-
 
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One of my closest friends from med school -- a personable, intelligent, sincere person -- failed it too. I was shocked, as was she of course. Who knows? I'm terrible with patients and my OMM is a joke, but I passed. I was (am) stumped -- you tell me. It's all just a big money making machine.
 
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NMH2001 said:
Just a question-did you do an osteopathic exam of some sort on every patient, regardless of what they came in for? In the real world, you likely will not do this nonsense-but may want to make sure you do at least something along that line when you retake. From what I gather speaking with other people this may be one of the culprits that *could* cause you to fail.
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I don't think that is the culprit. I only did manip on patients who specifically asked for it (and one other that didn't ask but was easy to do some rib-raising on), and I passed.

I'm really sorry to hear that, for all that didn't pass.

It does appear to be random, and I think it is completely unethical for them to give you no feedback on why you failed. I think those who have failed need to be persistent and not give up, because if there is truly a legitimate reason why you failed, you need to know what it is so you can improve next time.
 
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Remember, the patients perception of you is a major part of your grade. If you were really nervous about the test then maybe you didn't connect with the patients on a personal level. I know it is total crap to grade a person on whether or not someone liked them, but I think that is a major part of the test.
 
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I think the patient model actually grades more of this test than we think. I would imagine that a real physician grades out the SOAP note, but I think the patient models are a (too?) big part of the grading.

Someone I know who was a good student with very good objective board scores who matched in a competitive specialty at a great program failed this test and has to retake it as an intern.



This person wants to sue.
 
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As a follow up, I think its bogus that you can fail OMT and that can cause you to fail the test. The allo exam has no 'treatment' component and I think to judge us objectively off of something that is taught so differently is bogus.
 
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Doc825 said:
And spare you if you try to speak with them. I spoke with this lady at the center and she lost her mind and called me unprofessional and rude and hang the phone up. :
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I realize that there are two sidds to every story, but this seems extreme.

The NBOME should be required to explain why someone failed this test.
 
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Idiopathic said:
Someone I know who was a good student with very good objective board scores who matched in a competitive specialty at a great program failed this test and has to retake it as an intern.

This person wants to sue.
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Suing is a bit extreme, don't you think? It will likely cost far more in legal fees to sue than it would to retake the stupid exam.

Being a good student and matching at a competitive specialty doesn't mean you have a good bedside manner. If they failed because of that, it was likely due to the patient model's input.

There was one guy retaking when I took it and he was bragging about how great his grades and test scores were and he didn't understand why he failed the first time. I understood. He was a total jerk and pompous to boot.
 
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Just out of curiosity, do the patient models grade you on the effectiveness of your OMM technique? When I took mine I have to admit I did a real half assed job on the OMM. Still awaiting my score....

I agree that it is BS that they do not tell you what went wrong for you to fail. Kinda makes you wonder if there is a quota of some sort of people they need to fail to make this joke appear valid.
 
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sophiejane said:
There was one guy retaking when I took it and he was bragging about how great his grades and test scores were and he didn't understand why he failed the first time. I understood. He was a total jerk and pompous to boot.
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I'm sure there are some of these, but the people I know that failed the PE fit into the smart & personable with patients category.
 
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sophiejane said:
Suing is a bit extreme, don't you think? It will likely cost far more in legal fees to sue than it would to retake the stupid exam.

Being a good student and matching at a competitive specialty doesn't mean you have a good bedside manner. If they failed because of that, it was likely due to the patient model's input.

There was one guy retaking when I took it and he was bragging about how great his grades and test scores were and he didn't understand why he failed the first time. I understood. He was a total jerk and pompous to boot.
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Fair enough, but to fail based solely on OMT is sort of not what we were led to believe could even happen. I believe our school (which may have had a disproportionate number of failings considering our perfect objective board pass rate) did not adequately prepare us in this regard.

And also, you absolutely cannot judge how someone is at the bedside based on how they interact with you. I am sarcastic, crude and obnoxious to my colleagues, but am a polished gem at the bedside, you can believe that.
 
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How did you guys prepare. I am taking it next friday and am reading First Aid and practicing OMT. Do you think that is good enough. I am more nervous about this than the computer test.....maybe it is the fear of paying another thousand bucks to retake it!
 
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jkb said:
How did you guys prepare. I am taking it next friday and am reading First Aid and practicing OMT. Do you think that is good enough. I am more nervous about this than the computer test.....maybe it is the fear of paying another thousand bucks to retake it!
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Well, I can ONLY speak for what I DID, not for what worked as I have not yet received my pass/fail status... with that said, I will honestly say I did nothing but a rotation to prepare. Did a high volume FP rotation where I basically did equal to what my preceptor did and wrote notes above and beyond the necessary content. The day of the exam, I thought I was gonna hurl but it seriously flew by faster than any standardized exam before. The notes are NOT scary and the patients are pretty well trained I'll admit. If you didn't do a rotation right before hand, don't sweat it! You are a 4th year student... you're prepared...unless you don't speak English or are illiterate. ;) Best of luck, you'll be fine.
 
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FAILED! :mad: :mad: :mad:
HOW THE HeII did I fail probably the most *****ic, straightforward, God awful piece of dog$hi+ ever assembled on earth? This, coming from a student who on rotations, was probably more thorough and one of the nicest towards his patients than many who have passed through the same hospitals. It truly is a random score. It's not how good or how bad you did, how pleasant, or how rude you were, your name is literally dropped in a bucket and the first 10 get a passing score. The last two fail as a requirement for validity purposes! I HATE THE NBOME! I TRULY FVCKING HATE THEM! Their test questions SUCK, and this racketeering scam they operate is a farce in and of itself! :mad:
 
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Someone told me that you do not technically have to pass the PE. They said that you can fail and never worry about it again. I'm sure my school won't let you graduate without passing. Anyone know if this is true? And would this be decided by the school or AOA?
 
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Starting with the class of 2008, everyone must pass step 1, step 2, and the PE to graduate. Everyone has to pass all of those plus step 3 to be licensed, so, yes...you have to pass it at some point.
 
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as I said, the graduation requirement beins with the class of 2008. For those of you in the class of 2007 it is school specific.

after you graduate, everyone--regardless of graduation year--has to pass all of the exams in order to be licensed to practice. Some states allow a training license that carries you through residency (and limits your practice to residency), while others will fully-license residents after they have completed 1 or 2 years of residency (again, state specific).

In Oklahoma, for example, I have to have passed steps 1, 2, PE, and 3 before June so that I can be licensed. If I don't have all of these passes under my belt, I cannot begin my PGY-2 year of training.
 
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thanks for the verification. Man, I sure hope I just pass that PE so I don't have to find out what WV and my school require!
 
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Basic basic OMM stuff- Just know a handful of soft tissue techniques so that you can treat "typical" pain.

Write complete notes (8 hx items, at least 3-5 physical exam areas, 4-5 differentials, 4-5 plans). Don't forget labs, films, meds, follow-up (4 things right there).

Don't be phased by odd cases (I guess that's all I can say eh?).

Offer OMM when appropriate, not everyone needs it.

LECOM said physical exam should include the 3 A's (*the problem- the A-word I can't remember*, adjacent, associated) and since I passed :) I guess that should be enough cause that's all I did.

Don't be a jerk, wash your hands, cover the patient no matter what, be gentle.

GOOD LUCK!
 
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How long did it take for you to receive your results? thanks
 
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What a Fvcking joke. I am totally depressed about this exam and I have 10 weeks to go before I get my results. I think I'm gonna hit the lexapro.
 
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I took it on 10/25 and found out today 12/22 that I failed the exam. Merry Christmas, eh? Well here's another grand to the NBOME.

SO, do we get ANY feedback as to why we failed. MD's at least get some sort of breakdown I guess.

I did OMM on probably 1/3 of my pts. The only OMM that was actually requested was a very specific problem and I actually did not know how to treat this individual problem with OMM. I did not think this would be a big deal though. I told the pt how I would treat - actually is how every MD would treat. I did a C-T-L exam on every pt asking if they had any tenderness, but NONE of them said that they did.

Anyway, I don't know what to do differently next time. I guess touch up on the different OMM techniques for specific complaints. I washed my hands with every one and draped every one. I said thanks and shook hands. Asked if they had any Q's, etc.... I don't know what all was wrong.

The only available dates were in April, so April is my retake. WELL, PLENTY OF TIME TO STUDY FOR IT, I GUESS.
 
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Also, being that I'm retaking in April, obviously this won't be in by the Match. I'm going for ALLO programs. What should I do? I don't have my scores auto-released I guess, so they won't get the fail grade before Match. BUT if they do find out, will this be a big deal???
 
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don't fret, my best friend took PE last year, failed and ended up matching into allo university program. No one cares, just pass it and graduate and get the last laugh...
 
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may be most of you are not aware of this facts actually according to AOA standards and procedures on COM - Accredations , Section 5.4.1 the requirnment to take and pass both COMLEX II CE and PE doesnot start untill entering class of 2004-2005. which that means its all a big scam by the universities and NBOME and AOA. so you all lead to believed that you are required to take and pass COMLEX II CE and PE to graduate. that all BS , since AOA rules at section 5.4.1 only require you to take COMLEX II CE and PE does not requires you to Pass it untill entering class of 2004-2005. It is all about money. check the AOA rules for yourself.
 
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doc24u said:
may be most of you are not aware of this facts actually according to AOA standards and procedures on COM - Accredations , Section 5.4.1 the requirnment to take and pass both COMLEX II CE and PE doesnot start untill entering class of 2004-2005. which that means its all a big scam by the universities and NBOME and AOA. so you all lead to believed that you are required to take and pass COMLEX II CE and PE to graduate. that all BS , since AOA rules at section 5.4.1 only require you to take COMLEX II CE and PE does not requires you to Pass it untill entering class of 2004-2005. It is all about money. check the AOA rules for yourself.
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Wow doc24u. I do remember this being brought up before, but did not look into myself. I know you are correct on this.

My school requires graduates to PASS COMLEX LEVEL 1 and 2 CE, but ONLY have TAKEN LEVEL 2 PE. So I'm going to see what my school thinks of me not even retaking it. I've already scheduled it, but I'll eat the $50 fee to cancel much more willingly than paying the $995 to take and exam that I DON'T HAVE to TAKE.

Just wondering though... how would this affect everything else? Of course, if you match, then you match - right? Could someone make a big deal about this in my future? And could not re-taking it come back to haunt me?

Has anyone else that failed it NOT retaking it? And found out if this is a reasonable option?

Again, thanks doc24u for message. I'm looking into it and will post what I find.
 
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hay whats up doc825. read my posting on COMLEX II CE and PE. may be that will help you. if you need more info let me know . good luck and happy holidays. doc24u
 
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hay whats up nhm2001. read my posting on COMLEX II CE and PE. good luck and happy holidays. if you need more info let me know .
 
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doc24u said:
hay whats up doc825. read my posting on COMLEX II CE and PE. may be that will help you. if you need more info let me know . good luck and happy holidays. doc24u
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Here's the full quotation from the Accreditation standards:

5.4.1 All students must take and pass the National Board of Osteopathic Medical Examiners, Inc. (NBOME) Comprehensive Osteopathic Medical Licensing Examination (COMLEX) Level I prior to graduation. All students must take COMLEX Level II Cognitive Evaluation (CE) and Performance Evaluation (PE) components prior to graduation. All students who enter in the 2004-2005 academic year, and all students who graduate after December 1, 2007, must also pass NBOME Cognitive Evaluation (CE) and Performance Evaluation (PE) components of COMLEX Level II prior to graduation.

Note. Students graduating prior to December 1, 2007 must take COMLEX Level II CE and PE prior to graduation.​

Here's the link for the website: https://www.do-online.org/pdf/acc_predoccompdf.pdf
 
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I still won't believe it until I hear of someone who has done it or has it ok'd by their school, etc. So if anyone has any actual experience with the matter, let us know...
 
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badgas said:
I think I know why you failed! Did an other DOs who are specializing in ALLO programs get the mysterious grudge fail?
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"Grudge fails"? what? Are you kidding?

I'm a conspiracy theorist but even I don't believe the NBOME/AOA/whoever wastes their time and money figuring out which match you are signed up for just so they can find you and deep-six your PE day... "Psss SP- fail this one ok"

The only grudge should be yours against the AOA for the crappy education you're going to get from sticking with AOA residencies.

Is it March yet?

Happy Holidays!
 
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AOA clearly has failed to monitor and enforce its accrediting standar and procedures. in fact AOA the accrediting body is in violation of CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIOS -Subpart B- The criteria for Recognition Section 602.17-602.22. AOA. should have acted as a watch dog for the students but they acting as a sleepy dog. thats why AOA is curently being sued in Broward County , Florida for violation of the federal codes. may be if AoA would have acted responsible none of us would have gone through all of these nonsense of the schools and NBOME stuff. as i said before its all about money. thay (AOA, Schools, NBOME) all making money from us. in a side note also NSU is also being sued for violation of the AOA standards and procedures of Accreditiation in Broward County , Florida. maybe this will wake every body that we need to hold these people to the same standard as they holding us. i guess we have to be the watch dog for our ownseek, clearly AoA and the school and NBOME are not.
 
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doc24u said:
AOA clearly has failed to monitor and enforce its accrediting standar and procedures. in fact AOA the accrediting body is in violation of CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIOS -Subpart B- The criteria for Recognition Section 602.17-602.22. AOA. should have acted as a watch dog for the students but they acting as a sleepy dog. thats why AOA is curently being sued in Broward County , Florida for violation of the federal codes. may be if AoA would have acted responsible none of us would have gone through all of these nonsense of the schools and NBOME stuff. as i said before its all about money. thay (AOA, Schools, NBOME) all making money from us. in a side note also NSU is also being sued for violation of the AOA standards and procedures of Accreditiation in Broward County , Florida. maybe this will wake every body that we need to hold these people to the same standard as they holding us. i guess we have to be the watch dog for our ownseek, clearly AoA and the school and NBOME are not.
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so i guess its time for all of the students to stand for their right and protect their futures .
 
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soing is probley only launguage these people will understand. so , its not extrem. Standing for your right is not extreme, wethere, this require seuing, so be it. but i be damn if i let anyone of these people cheat my out of my futures and hard works , because they want to make more money from us. they already sucked us dried with high tuition and BS exams and etc.
 
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Hey Doc24u, I was told that every state requires you to successfully pass COMLEX PE, along with all other 3 exams in order to be granted licensure to practice. SO, yes, the AOA and your school may not necessarily require you to pass the exam to graduate, but in order to practice - gotta pass. This is what I have been told. I have not yet found any Definitive info from an authority on the matter, but I'm keeping my scheduled retake until I find that it is possible to not actually retake. Again, if anyone can verify - that would be awesome.
 
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Here's information from the Federation of State Medical Boards listing licensure requirements for each state.

I believe that you have to have passed all previous exams before you can take step 3, so that means that you've got to pass the PE to be licensed even if a state board doesn't specifically state that.
 
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It seem like lots of people are decived by the schools as that , the graduating requirnment are the same as licensing requirnment. thats absoulty is not the case. you don't have to pass all these test to get your degree as i have stated in section 5.4.1 of AOA - acredition procedure and standards. also you don't need to pass these test either to get a residency . because in AOA- post doctral training and residency . there is no need to pass COMLEX II CE and PE. furthermore each states has different requirnment for licensing. most of them accept a combanation of test. you can take USMLE, FLEX, NBME, and etc. so for all of you who are so naive and decived by the school to led to believe you need all these test to graduate or do a residency wake up and get your head out of the sand box. after graduation and residency you have years to take any of the above mantioned tests. again you don"t need COMLEX II ce and PE to practice. so stap being naive and find the facts for yourself , not what the schools or NBOME tells you.
 
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