Comments about personality in evals

[TarsisCA]

I’m a new-ish 3rd year clerk who just got back some of my gen surg & surgery subspecialty evals, and I’m really confused/irritated. I’m generally a hardworking student. I arrive early; I know the patients well; I bring extra supplies (scissors, marking pens, tensors), and I always help out with the pt transfers/prep in the OR. My gen surg resident told me that I’ve been somebody she could always rely on since day one, and that whenever she told me anything once, she could pretty much consider it done. In fact, she said I’m one of the best students she’s ever worked with. My subspecialty resident also said I can always anticipate what he needs help with and that I’m better than a lot of upper years who’ve come through. The problem is attendings. Generally I don’t see them very much, and for some reason, they tend to have the impression that I’m “timid” or “shy”. My evaluations are peppered with suggestions to become more “outgoing” or “confident”. The problem is that I don’t really know what that means. I mean, I was pretty good with communicating to patients. When I talked to attending, I just answered any questions when asked. If I don’t know the answer, I just say I don’t know/haven’t heard of the condition but I can look into it. In the OR (where I saw them most of the time), I just retracted/did whatever they told me. It’s not like they really talked to me much. Most of the time, they were directing the conversations at the nurses and residents anyway. My gen surg resident made a comment how I was bad at showing attendings what a good student I could be, and “oh you know what it’s like in 3rd/4th year, it’s like a show or audition”. I’m a young-looking Asian female, and I naturally have a soft voice, does that mean I naturally come across as more timid by stereotype?

I’m worried because I’m noticing that some of my classmates are getting more positive reviews, and this whole thing will become a problem when it comes to reference letters/applying to programs. Is there something specific I could do? Like I said, attendings don't pay us that much attention or talk to us that much, is there a way to make conversation with them without seeming annoying then?

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[CsHead]

.... I’m a young-looking Asian female, and I naturally have a soft voice, does that mean I naturally come across as more timid by stereotype? ....

Yes. Sorry. Welcome to third year.

 

[Psai]

Yeah well, patients don't evaluate you and they don't seem to care what residents have to say either for evaluations

 

[cbrons]

3rd year grading is a game. Its not about how much effort or enthusiasm you genuinely put into the rotation. Its about how much effort/enthusiasm you LOOK like you put into the rotation.

And the person judging this will usually spend one or two seconds thinking about it based on the 2 minutes they spent with you.

 

[seminoma]

, and I naturally have a soft voice, does that mean I naturally come across as more timid by stereotype?

Talk louder.

I'm naturally kind of an a-hole, but I suppress it on service. Being a good student/doctor is more than doing scut, knowing science, and kissing resident's asses.

 

[WinslowPringle]

From what I have seen, my advice (and things I try, ridiculous as it is)
1. Talk louder.
2. Do not put 'question marks' at the end of your sentences; have a down-ward trending vocal tone and make statements not questions.
3. Do not hunch your shoulders or cross your arms and keep your head down. Good eye contact, firm handshake. Maybe a wider stance than you would normally take. Stand up straight. When you meet someone in the hallway, don't do a close-to-the-body hand wave, just nod your chin up with a brief hint of smile.
4. Don't say "I guess," or "Maybe..." as much as you would like. The quote "Surgeons are often wrong, but never in doubt!" applies.
5. Introduce yourself to the attending. Places vary with protocol, but in general I always tried to make sure the attending knew who I was since I was in on his case. (and now as an intern if I am covering a case with an attending I'm not regularly working with on the rotation, I introduce myself beforehand if at all possible and explain I'll be resident coverage.)
6. Have one or two appropriate questions or comments for in the OR (even better if you clear them with your resident first so you don't ask a question that then makes your resident look bad).
7. Judge reasonably, but if there is general conversation among everyone in the OR, jump in a few times. Talk about the Knicks game or that awesome episode of whatever. Helps the attending see you as a human.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

It also really depends on what type of specialty you want to go into. If you want to go into surgery or a surgical subspecialty, these comments might matter in some way. If you're going into a field that attracts more quiet type of people (which is probably most non-procedural fields), I don't know that anyone will care that surgery attendings said you were too timid.

 

[Ismet]

As someone who also speaks softly, I was given that feedback at the beginning of 3rd year too. Even if you know your stuff, many attendings will perceive being quiet and timid as lacking confidence or knowledge. Not every doctor needs to be outgoing and talkative, but you do need to be confident and outwardly look like you're confident. But generally what you're describing, that's 3rd year. The residents get to know you really well and see what you're doing and how you're helping the team, but the attending usually sees you for only a small fraction of that time. The good news is that many attendings will consult with the residents before writing your eval, because they KNOW the residents know you better.

Then there's the fact that it's surgery, and that's where I found it the hardest to engage with residents and attendings (I'm going into something very much the opposite of surgery). There was so little time with the attendings and so many attendings that I worked with a different one each day. One of the services was also very hierarchical and for the first few days I was afraid to speak because I thought there was a "only speak if spoken to" thing (but apparently that was only during rounds and not in the OR). But if you find that you're not talking much, you do need to "turn it on" if you want to appear interested. Just doing what they ask and retracting shows that you're there because you have to be there. Always have a couple questions in mind to ask during the procedure (obviously not during an intra-op emergency or when they're trying to control bleeding or something), because that shows that you're actively participating and interested in what is going on.

 

[QualityProcess]

Introduce yourself to the attending.

one of my favorite moments of third year so far is introducing myself to a pathologist and being left sticking my hand out after being told "I don't shake hands with students." Not being sarcastic, I enjoyed it because I'm pretty sure I made his bad mood even worse.

 

[Frazier]

one of my favorite moments of third year so far is introducing myself to a pathologist and being left sticking my hand out after being told "I don't shake hands with students." Not being sarcastic, I enjoyed it because I'm pretty sure I made his bad mood even worse.

Was he "high and mighty" in his own mind or just "weird"?

 

[QualityProcess]

the mysterious and endangered high and mighty pathologist

 

[Psai]

one of my favorite moments of third year so far is introducing myself to a pathologist and being left sticking my hand out after being told "I don't shake hands with students." Not being sarcastic, I enjoyed it because I'm pretty sure I made his bad mood even worse.

I assume that's when he took his last breath

 

[TarsisCA]

From what I have seen, my advice (and things I try, ridiculous as it is)
1. Talk louder.
2. Do not put 'question marks' at the end of your sentences; have a down-ward trending vocal tone and make statements not questions.
3. Do not hunch your shoulders or cross your arms and keep your head down. Good eye contact, firm handshake. Maybe a wider stance than you would normally take. Stand up straight. When you meet someone in the hallway, don't do a close-to-the-body hand wave, just nod your chin up with a brief hint of smile.
4. Don't say "I guess," or "Maybe..." as much as you would like. The quote "Surgeons are often wrong, but never in doubt!" applies.
5. Introduce yourself to the attending. Places vary with protocol, but in general I always tried to make sure the attending knew who I was since I was in on his case. (and now as an intern if I am covering a case with an attending I'm not regularly working with on the rotation, I introduce myself beforehand if at all possible and explain I'll be resident coverage.)
6. Have one or two appropriate questions or comments for in the OR (even better if you clear them with your resident first so you don't ask a question that then makes your resident look bad).
7. Judge reasonably, but if there is general conversation among everyone in the OR, jump in a few times. Talk about the Knicks game or that awesome episode of whatever. Helps the attending see you as a human.

Thanks for the advice! I wonder if I'm unknowingly doing some of these things (putting question marks at the end of sentences, saying "maybe" or "I guess"). Habits are hard to break but hopefully I can put some of those pieces of advice into practice. =)

 

[evilbooyaa]

Always be confident. Never be not confident. Who cares if you're obliviously wrong? You were confident, damnit!

This reminds me back to two of my friends in med school.

 

[Akali]

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