compare these jobs...

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

amyl

Full Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
2,354
Reaction score
1,078
desirable location.
1. partnership track @250k doing everything but hearts. call is light tho. 4-5 calls with only 2 being first calls per month. three year partnership track. not clear if they will eventually disclose what partners make.
2. same hospital employed position doing trauma (level 2 or 3) 7p-7a 7 days on 7 days off... 300k
3. level 2 trauma center 15-20 mins into suburbs, level 2 trauma 24 on and 48 off, 350k
thoughts?

Members don't see this ad.
 
desirable location.
1. partnership track @250k doing everything but hearts. call is light tho. 4-5 calls with only 2 being first calls per month. three year partnership track. not clear if they will eventually disclose what partners make.
2. same hospital employed position doing trauma (level 2 or 3) 7p-7a 7 days on 7 days off... 300k
3. level 2 trauma center 15-20 mins into suburbs, level 2 trauma 24 on and 48 off, 350k
thoughts?
Choice 1 sounds very fishy, salary is too low, partnership track too long and many unknowns.
Choice 2 is a way for the group to get a slave to do all the calls for them for very little money, not worth it and you will get burned out very quickly.
Choice 3 might be the best option if you are a young person who is planning to do that for a few years until you find a better job.
 
Thanks. I thought the same... 1 sounds like a scam. I don't believe anyone there will ever make partner. Agreed 3 is best.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I think you should move.

But if you can't then 3 would be my choice, until I could move. 1 is a scam, 2 is going to be hell - humans don't live like that.
I agree with pgg I would move if possible, if not choice 3. CG
 
For jobs 2/3 are you only doing trauma or everything while you're "on" plus the trauma the facility accepts?
 
All 3 of those jobs blow at the posted salary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Job 3 looks good on first glance, however if you crunch the numbers you are working 120 days a year x 24h = 2880 hours. Comes out to about $120/hr.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
It depends on how long you will be there. Let's say you make partner after 3 yrs and they make $450k ( reasonable amount but could be more or even less). I suspect if they are wanting someone to cover their trauma then they are making more than $450k/yr as partners. Just a hunch, but few would bring someone in to cover the traumas alone unless they were comfortable with their income and willing to decrease it some in order to hire someone else to cover traumas. Hope that makes sense.

So let's say you spend 10yrs at this job.
job #1 would make $3,900,000 ( 3x$250 + 7x$450=3,900,000
Job #2 would make $3,000,000
Job#3 would make $3,500,00

I'd go with job #1 if I planned to be there for a while or if I thought there might be a chance that I would. But obviously, there are many other important aspects to these jobs that must be weighed.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
If you get some sleep on call 3 is good, otherwise 1 is ok if your 'buy in' is refunded if you don't make partner. It's buy in right?
 
I'm curious as why some think option 1 sounds fishy. Partnership track is probably one year too long though and starting salary is on the lower end, but not that far off. But 24 hour in house call blows. I could never do that every third day. How many weeks vacation are you getting?
 
If you get some sleep on call 3 is good, otherwise 1 is ok if your 'buy in' is refunded if you don't make partner. It's buy in right?
I would be weary of groups with a large buy in. What exactly are you buying into an anesthesia group? Its not like we have a practice with our own patients to get some ownership of.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I would be weary of groups with a large buy in. What exactly are you buying into an anesthesia group? Its not like we have a practice with our own patients to get some ownership of.
No but you do have access to surgeons that bring you pts. This is work done by the group prior to your arrival and therefore something worth buying into in my opinion. Now how much that buy in is, depends. 3 yrs is a lot but it isn't the longest I've heard of. I was offered a 4yr partnership in Austin. It was too long for me but there were plenty of others that took it. It was a group full of high powered anesthesiologists with deep roots in legislation as much as surgeons and administrators. It was arguably worth the investment to some.

My first group leased office space and employed our own full billing staff which was worth some buy in. But be glad your not in Ortho, those buy ins are insane.

People here don't put enough thought into what it may have cost the group to get to the place that they are in. People here expect to just walk into all that work and start benefiting like the group owes them something. Sorry, that's not how it works for some groups. There are too many pathologies out there to give anyone equal status on day one. But my group does this because we are employed so it's different. Many people have that entitlement attitude that is so prevalent in our country.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I wouldn't do job 2 for less than ~900, unless you rarely work on call.
Job 3 might be ok depending on how much sleep you average on call. Working most of the night and recovering the next day Q3 would be worse than job 2.
Job one sounds like a standard somewhat predatory partner track, which is the cost of doing business in a lot of groups, assuming you're actually likely to make partner. They should disclose the percent of past track people that made partner and when they cut them lose if they didn't. They know if someone is a bad fit by 6 months, maybe much earlier, and certainly by a year. If people aren't making partner after 2 or 3 years, run.
 
IlDestriero is correct.
Think of it another way, it takes time to get to know someone on both sides. Maybe 6 months like IlDest said maybe less maybe more. But don't look at it like they are feeling you out only, you are/should be doing the same. Figure out a few things while working. Are they fair? Do most associates make it to partner? If not, why? Can you talk to someone who might have left the group? This is a great resource that rarely gets used. How much are the partners really making? At some point they should be willing to divulge this. But they also should give you a fair ballpark before you sign anything.

Another thought, are you a new grad? If so, take the offer as is. You can try to negotiate all you want be be willing to accept that contract or don't go any further. If you have some years out of training then you have more negotiating clout. You should Be worth more than a new grad so see if you can get something for this. It also gives you an idea of their interest in you. If they have no intentions of ever making you partner then they probably won't budge.
 
I like 1 if the salary increased year 2 and 3 ( like to X% of partner). That is the long term move though. There is a definite benefit an established group brings, and yes, you may be screwed over, but long term I feel that is the better option for a guy like me who will be putting down roots. Plus, you get a guy who does all your trauma at night, assuming they hire option 2 as well.

Groups with members on the hospital board of directors, chiefs of staff etc have a value. A buy in is reasonable in my opinion.

You do need to do your homework on the group though, especially history of prior partner track people. My group lied to me about partner salary when I was interviewing. I made 50% more than expected when I became partner. Yes, I was "cheap labor" for one year, but it was much much better than the employed position and other partner opportunities long term.

Option 2 is reasonable for a salary that vastly depends on how busy on call. Sleep 6 hours of the 12? very reasonable. Work hard the whole time, every night, doubt you will feel it is worth it.
 
Couple of tips on #1. If they don't tell you how much partners make, then don't bother rolling the dice. NOT WORTH IT. What are the bennies, when do you get them and do you become a true shareholder (do you write a check for ownership of part of the business?).
Good groups will show potential partners what lies at the end of the horizon. Shaddy ones don't.

Honestly... I would just keep looking as none look really that appealing with the limited info provided. Remember what the MGMA averages are in your region. These are averages. Some make more, some make less. Keep that in mind. If I was you, I'd stay on board where you are or join and AMC that will pay you 350K + bennies from the get go... meanwhile look around until a real good gig shows up. That way you don't rush anything and make a good informed decision. It took me a while to land my dream job, but I had time and patience on my side... and was in BFE doing well for myself. Those were calculated decisions.

Always keep in mind vacation time. 4-6 sux, 6-8 is ok, 8-10 is good, 10+ is really good. Vacation options or ability to cut back to part time before 55 y/o is an important factor to consider when looking at the whole package. For some, quality time away from work is well worth it. A good chunk of my group is part time and it's encouraged if anyone wants to pursue that route.

Group history and stability is equally important.

Best of luck.
 
No but you do have access to surgeons that bring you pts. This is work done by the group prior to your arrival and therefore something worth buying into in my opinion. Now how much that buy in is, depends. 3 yrs is a lot but it isn't the longest I've heard of. I was offered a 4yr partnership in Austin. It was too long for me but there were plenty of others that took it. It was a group full of high powered anesthesiologists with deep roots in legislation as much as surgeons and administrators. It was arguably worth the investment to some.

My first group leased office space and employed our own full billing staff which was worth some buy in. But be glad your not in Ortho, those buy ins are insane.

People here don't put enough thought into what it may have cost the group to get to the place that they are in. People here expect to just walk into all that work and start benefiting like the group owes them something. Sorry, that's not how it works for some groups. There are too many pathologies out there to give anyone equal status on day one. But my group does this because we are employed so it's different. Many people have that entitlement attitude that is so prevalent in our country.

I agree with all your saying. To be clear, I was referring more to the buy in some groups ask for in a lump sum after completing your partnership track time. So in addition to the money the group makes off you during the first few years (which should be the buy in and I am in complete agreement with), they also require you to pay more out of pocket to become a shareholder. I've heard of in some groups this additional buy in to be $50k. This is what I think is excessive.
 
I agree with all your saying. To be clear, I was referring more to the buy in some groups ask for in a lump sum after completing your partnership track time. So in addition to the money the group makes off you during the first few years (which should be the buy in and I am in complete agreement with), they also require you to pay more out of pocket to become a shareholder. I've heard of in some groups this additional buy in to be $50k. This is what I think is excessive.
Got it.
Yes this could be excessive. I guess it depends. But as you know, everything is negotiable. I would try my damnedest to get that waived.
 
Are these jobs in Dallas? Job market is pretty tight these days, even UTSouthwestern's group has joined Pinnacle/USAP.
1. If there is a good chance you'll make partner, this job sounds the best. 250K isn't terrible for what sounds like an easy job. Beware though, plenty of people are getting cut/notified they won't make partner at year 3 in Dtown.
2. Better to do another fellowship than take this job. If you want to work 7pm nights in a row 26 weeks a year, you should make 450k. You could easily make that much doing CCM in dallas.
3. Q3 call at an salary is just non sustainable. These jobs don't come with vacation so you'll never have a full weekend of unless you arrange to go Q2 call.
 
Option 1 may actually be a good option. That set up is not unusual in a desirable location. I've seen lower salaries in partnership track positions. But like Noyac and IlDestriero said, you have to know how much partners are making, and whether most associates make it to partner. If it's an honest group, they will generally be open about this information. Also, if you can track down someone who left the group, that would be ideal. That will only be possible if you happen to know a lot of other people in the local anesthesia community.
 
NYCITYGAS, I was thinking Dallas too. Only because I interviewed for jobs in UTSW old group for job 2. The new associates in that group were getting 250k. Sounds very familiar.

If you are interested in TX, I would check out San Antonio if you wanted fair groups but all their tracks are three years. And no CRNAs. Dallas, Houston and especially Austin groups can and are very predatory.
 
NYCITYGAS, I was thinking Dallas too. Only because I interviewed for jobs in UTSW old group for job 2. The new associates in that group were getting 250k. Sounds very familiar.

If you are interested in TX, I would check out San Antonio if you wanted fair groups but all their tracks are three years. And no CRNAs. Dallas, Houston and especially Austin groups can and are very predatory.
We had an anesthesiologist leave our group a few years back to go to Dallas. That person didn't stay there long.
 
Dallas, Houston, and Austin. Great places to bring your Vaseline and KY. Which kinda sucks for me as I am from Dallas and will one day want to go back. In the meantime, I am in the Wild Wild West, eating what I kill and enjoying life without CRNAs.
 
Just over 10yrs ago I interviewed for a job in Austin. They wanted to pay me about what they pay their CRNA's. And it was a 4 yr track to partnership with a buy in. Like I said earlier, I passed on that offer.
But there was another newer group that I liked better. It just was too new for me to get any idea of the stability so I passed on it too.
 
1.) Not horrendous but 3 years is a little long in this day and age. A lot can happen in that amount of time. Value of benefits and vacation would be helpful to know.

2.) Very bad pay considering the hours. Sounds like you will be doing crappy after-hours cases while everyone else sleeps at home. They will make a lot more money than you whilst taking zero call (I assume someone works the opposite schedule from you).

3.)Way too much call unless you get A LOT of time off.

None of this takes into other considerations - location, work environment, etc.
 
Couple of tips on #1. If they don't tell you how much partners make, then don't bother rolling the dice. NOT WORTH IT. What are the bennies, when do you get them and do you become a true shareholder (do you write a check for ownership of part of the business?).
Good groups will show potential partners what lies at the end of the horizon. Shaddy ones don't.

Disagree. It isn't ideal but there are some very reputable groups I am familiar with who do not tell you what your expected compensation is when you make partner.
 
Disagree. It isn't ideal but there are some very reputable groups I am familiar with who do not tell you what your expected compensation is when you make partner.

My comment is a generalization. There are exceptions I'm sure. Here is my point Arch:

If a group is willing to use you @ 250K a year for a 3 year partnership track and refuses to disclose what your income potential would be at the end of that track... red flags should go up. How are you going to make an informed decision? If you take that job... whatever happens at the end of 3 years is on you. It's like rolling the dice in Vegas IMO. You just don't know.

I would never even consider a group w/o @ least knowing the current average partner salary. Some of the high quality groups I've interviewed at over the years sent me total compensation of all the partners on an XLS document. Transparency from the get go means a lot to me... and it should mean a lot to anyone looking into a job. If they are willing to show you the books there is a good chance of honesty.

Trying to hide partner incomes from other junior partners is shady IMO. You need to be very sure about who you get in bed with.
Fairness in a group is of paramount importance. Fairness begins with transparancy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Disagree. It isn't ideal but there are some very reputable groups I am familiar with who do not tell you what your expected compensation is when you make partner.
Agreed. It is very difficult in this day and age to predict what your income will be in 1yr much less 3yrs. Obamacare and the SGR are two things that should come to mind.
 
My comment is a generalization. There are exceptions I'm sure. Here is my point Arch:

If a group is willing to use you @ 250K a year for a 3 year partnership track and refuses to disclose what your income potential would be at the end of that track... red flags should go up. How are you going to make an informed decision? If you take that job... whatever happens at the end of 3 years is on you. It's like rolling the dice in Vegas IMO. You just don't know.

I would never even consider a group w/o @ least knowing the current average partner salary. Some of the high quality groups I've interviewed at over the years sent me total compensation of all the partners on an XLS document. Transparency from the get go means a lot to me... and it should mean a lot to anyone looking into a job. If they are willing to show you the books there is a good chance of honesty.

Trying to hide partner incomes from other junior partners is shady IMO. You need to be very sure about who you get in bed with.
Fairness in a group is of paramount importance. Fairness begins with transparancy.
My first group gave me an idea of their income when I showed real interest only. They told me ballpark numbers only though. In hind sight, this was a good decision on their part. When I started they made 30% more than when I was ready to make partner. They lost a hospital contract among a few other things which cost them. So it really doesn't matter what they tell you if your associate time is 3yrs. Things change too much.

However, if they are real interested in you as a candidate they should give you an idea. And once you sign, they should keep you up to date on all the goings on.
 
Two of our graduating residents are going to San antonio. One to Tejas and the other to Star Anesthesia. I can't remember what they were offered but know it was better than any of these jobs.
 
My first group gave me an idea of their income when I showed real interest only. They told me ballpark numbers only though. In hind sight, this was a good decision on their part. When I started they made 30% more than when I was ready to make partner. They lost a hospital contract among a few other things which cost them. So it really doesn't matter what they tell you if your associate time is 3yrs. Things change too much.

However, if they are real interested in you as a candidate they should give you an idea. And once you sign, they should keep you up to date on all the goings on.

I see it differently. IMO, it is always a good idea to know what your future partners are making NOW. You need that baseline. If things change due to lost contracts or decreased reimbursement, then that is just part of business- I don't see this as a reason to keep a junior partner is the shadows.
Along with quality of life and vacation, income is the most important factor in any job search. You need to have a baseline to compare other jobs.
Simply telling someone that their income is 250k for the next 3 years and it will go up after that just doesn't cut it in my world.
You absolutely need to know the current numbers. If I couldn't find that out, then I would 100% pass. That's just me though.
 
Two of our graduating residents are going to San antonio. One to Tejas and the other to Star Anesthesia. I can't remember what they were offered but know it was better than any of these jobs.

I interviewed with both Star and Tejas. I also have good friends in both groups. Star has different divisions. Hill Country is probably the best (at least back when I interviewed with them). Both Star and Tejas are good groups to join. Both have buy ins and partnership tracks. 300's-450's.
 
Noyac,

You really defend the buy-in. I have no idea as this is way beyond my experience - but my gut tells me this is just wrong. I get the history, etc - but there are WAY better ways (it would seem) to me to make it seem transparent and fair.

ASGM (the big group here in San Diego) uses pooled units - a brilliant idea. There isn't a buy-in and I am not saying there shouldn't be.

But why not do pooled units - and the longer you work, the more your pay percentage and time off. That seems reasonable and mirrors EVERY OTHER profession (other than medical) in the world. If I take a job with Intel, my pay depends on my time with the company and experience and is expected to go up as I stay with them. The yahoos at the front office don't spue out this crap about how they invented the process and my job only exists because of their history of creation ...that is obvious. That is why I get payed as a newbee.

I'm just not sure of the logic that an anesthesia group should ride on the backs of new hires because they created the business with all the sweat and tears that came with that. That should come with something - but the buy-in and partnership track seems like a horrible deal to me. It sits so poorly and there seems like a much better way or ways to do it.
 
I'm OK with a buy-in. There are countless hours spent at staff and administrative meetings, fire extinguishing, phone calls, and investment into the groups foothold in a hospital. This takes time and collective efforts. Staff/Administration relationships often flourish over a long time and don't just happen overnight. A fresh grad may need to sacrifice some income and that is 100% OK. You need to see the books though or at least know how you stand with comparison to others. That is not to say that all PP groups are like that... My first year out I was in the mid 600's as a full partner... and it went' up after that. So not all PP groups are made equally. You absolutely need to know what you are getting into and decide if it's worth it for your particular situation.
 
Noyac,

You really defend the buy-in. I have no idea as this is way beyond my experience - but my gut tells me this is just wrong. I get the history, etc - but there are WAY better ways (it would seem) to me to make it seem transparent and fair.

ASGM (the big group here in San Diego) uses pooled units - a brilliant idea. There isn't a buy-in and I am not saying there shouldn't be.

But why not do pooled units - and the longer you work, the more your pay percentage and time off. That seems reasonable and mirrors EVERY OTHER profession (other than medical) in the world. If I take a job with Intel, my pay depends on my time with the company and experience and is expected to go up as I stay with them. The yahoos at the front office don't spue out this crap about how they invented the process and my job only exists because of their history of creation ...that is obvious. That is why I get payed as a newbee.

I'm just not sure of the logic that an anesthesia group should ride on the backs of new hires because they created the business with all the sweat and tears that came with that. That should come with something - but the buy-in and partnership track seems like a horrible deal to me. It sits so poorly and there seems like a much better way or ways to do it.
I agree with you. I think the pooled unit program is the most fair.
I hope I'm not coming off as a staunch supporter of the partnership track. I'm just explaining why it exists and why it can be considered fair to some. I wouldn't expect someone to take a job like this if they had some strong objection to this type of practice. That person will just resent every moment there.

However, I will say this, there is great difference between a a new grad and an experienced practitioner. And not all of this difference comes in th OR. Anesthesiology is much more than just patient care. The more you bring to the table the more you are worth.

Let's say a senior member in a pooled unit practice spends less time in the OR accruing units but attends many administrative mtgs, sits on the ASC or hospital Boards, is a member of MEC, PROC, credentials, etc. This guy won't have the same number of units as a junior partner. Who is worth more? I'll tell you their value isn't equal. I'm in an employed group. We are all paid the same. But I spend at least 20hrs a month doing administrative work that my partners don't have to do. They go home and they are done for the day. Should we be paid the same?
Most pooled unit groups have ways of compensating this time. And I'll bet not everyone agrees with it but that's why so many different types of groups exist. Your job is to find out which type of group you prefer and get them to buy into you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
My comment is a generalization. There are exceptions I'm sure. Here is my point Arch:

If a group is willing to use you @ 250K a year for a 3 year partnership track and refuses to disclose what your income potential would be at the end of that track... red flags should go up. How are you going to make an informed decision? If you take that job... whatever happens at the end of 3 years is on you. It's like rolling the dice in Vegas IMO. You just don't know.

I would never even consider a group w/o @ least knowing the current average partner salary. Some of the high quality groups I've interviewed at over the years sent me total compensation of all the partners on an XLS document. Transparency from the get go means a lot to me... and it should mean a lot to anyone looking into a job. If they are willing to show you the books there is a good chance of honesty.

Trying to hide partner incomes from other junior partners is shady IMO. You need to be very sure about who you get in bed with.
Fairness in a group is of paramount importance. Fairness begins with transparancy.

If there is a buy-in (other than the period of indentured servitude), do you believe the amount should be disclosed?
 
If there is a buy-in (other than the period of indentured servitude), do you believe the amount should be disclosed?

I'm not following you Arch. Do you mean that at the end of the indentured servitude the group may say... hey... I'm so glad to have you and btw... you owe an additional 100K buy in?

Yes. You need to know the buy in BEFORE you sign the contract.
 
I'm not following you Arch. Do you mean that at the end of the indentured servitude the group may say... hey... I'm so glad to have you and btw... you owe an additional 100K buy in?

Yes. You need to know the buy in BEFORE you sign the contract.
Absolutely. If a group pulled this crap on me I would be so pissed.
 
If there is a buy-in (other than the period of indentured servitude), do you believe the amount should be disclosed?
Absolutely. Unless it is trivial, which it probably isn't.
I looked at one group that had a buy in after 2 year partnership. However the share was only $15k and it gave you ownership in their side billing business which paid the partners more than that every year and was growing. Maybe I should have taken that job...
 
Absolutely. Unless it is trivial, which it probably isn't.
I looked at one group that had a buy in after 2 year partnership. However the share was only $15k and it gave you ownership in their side billing business which paid the partners more than that every year and was growing. Maybe I should have taken that job...
*******!!!!;)
 
Let's say a senior member in a pooled unit practice spends less time in the OR accruing units but attends many administrative mtgs, sits on the ASC or hospital Boards, is a member of MEC, PROC, credentials, etc. This guy won't have the same number of units as a junior partner. Who is worth more? I'll tell you their value isn't equal. I'm in an employed group. We are all paid the same. But I spend at least 20hrs a month doing administrative work that my partners don't have to do. They go home and they are done for the day. Should we be paid the same?

If you are able to represent the group (and not follow your personal interests) , negotiate higher reimbursements, avoid takeovers, position your group into a safe foothold in the hospital... then ABSOLUTELY! That is a tough job my friend. Easily worth 60-100K. At least that is what I've seen in my practice with successful negotiator anesthesia directors/chiefs. ;)
 
Noyac,

You really defend the buy-in. I have no idea as this is way beyond my experience - but my gut tells me this is just wrong. I get the history, etc - but there are WAY better ways (it would seem) to me to make it seem transparent and fair.

ASGM (the big group here in San Diego) uses pooled units - a brilliant idea. There isn't a buy-in and I am not saying there shouldn't be.

But why not do pooled units - and the longer you work, the more your pay percentage and time off. That seems reasonable and mirrors EVERY OTHER profession (other than medical) in the world. If I take a job with Intel, my pay depends on my time with the company and experience and is expected to go up as I stay with them. The yahoos at the front office don't spue out this crap about how they invented the process and my job only exists because of their history of creation ...that is obvious. That is why I get payed as a newbee.

I'm just not sure of the logic that an anesthesia group should ride on the backs of new hires because they created the business with all the sweat aI nd tears that came with that. That should come with something - but the buy-in and partnership track seems like a horrible deal to me. It sits so poorly and there seems like a much better way or ways to do it.
I'm with you. The buy in is HORSE ****. Bunch of old guys or older guys who want to haze the younger guys and make income off of them. They havent created anything. All they did perhaps was throw a kickback to the administrators to acquire an exclusive contract which is barely legal in my opinion which gives them the green light to be sleazebags. years ago it was every man for himself. YOu did clinical work, you got paid. You didnt do it, you dont get paid. Period.
 
I'm not following you Arch. Do you mean that at the end of the indentured servitude the group may say... hey... I'm so glad to have you and btw... you owe an additional 100K buy in?

Yes. You need to know the buy in BEFORE you sign the contract.

Assume that you are an employee for x amount of years before you are eligible to become a partner and that there is a buy-in once your x amount of years is up.

Income in private practice varies. If income is down 33% from when the last guy bought in, would you expect to pay the same (a fixed number). Accounts receivable varies a buy-in does as well typically.
 
I'm with you. The buy in is HORSE ****. Bunch of old guys or older guys who want to haze the younger guys and make income off of them. They havent created anything. All they did perhaps was throw a kickback to the administrators to acquire an exclusive contract which is barely legal in my opinion which gives them the green light to be sleazebags. years ago it was every man for himself. YOu did clinical work, you got paid. You didnt do it, you dont get paid. Period.

Buy-ins may stink but for the few remaining private practices I doubt they are going away anytime soon. If I am subject to a buy-in there is no way I want the next guy to be able to skip it.
 
. But I spend at least 20hrs a month doing administrative work that my partners don't have to do. They go home and they are done for the day. Should we be paid the same?
Administrative work does not get reimbursed like clinical work. YOu dont have any of the liability that you have like clinical work. You can pay any practice manager 20 bucks an hour to do what YOU do in those 20 hours. SO you should make 4oo bucks extra per month to do you administrative work. You cant expect anesthesiologist pay to sit in the office making phone calls and attending meetings.

Same thing with the academic chairmen. They dont spend ANY time in the OR yet they make 500 plus per year. WTF... If you are doing admin work. YOu should be paid as such. SO those chairmen should make 120K per year.
 
Assume that you are an employee for x amount of years before you are eligible to become a partner and that there is a buy-in once your x amount of years is up.

Income in private practice varies. If income is down 33% from when the last guy bought in, would you expect to pay the same (a fixed number). Accounts receivable varies a buy-in does as well typically.

I thought that may be what you meant. If there is a "buy" in for a piece of paper that makes you a shareholder that should be disclosed.

If a PARTNER wants to look at the money that he had to put in over his X amount of time, then yes... he is a PARTNER and should have full disclosure of the books. Hiding it from him is not transparent, especially as a partner.
 
I thought that may be what you meant. If there is a "buy" in for a piece of paper that makes you a shareholder that should be disclosed.

If a PARTNER wants to look at the money that he had to put in over his X amount of time, then yes... he is a PARTNER and should have full disclosure of the books. Hiding it from him is not transparent, especially as a partner.

My point is that a buy-in may be based on accounts receivable, which changes over time. If you are an employee for 3 years (as in job#1) there is no way to know what a buy-in will be for a new hire three years down the road when they are eligible to become a shareholder.
 
Top