Concerns about DEBT

[FitnessDoc2012]

How is everyone overcoming their concerns about the immense amount of student loan debt they are going into to get the DPT and make a salary around 65k to start?

The 1:2 Salary to Debt ratio is the only thing holding me back from pursuing the degree...

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[Base14]

Hmmm... here's a couple at the top of my priority list,

-Having a unwavering passion for the field physical therapy.
-A desire to help people who otherwise could not help themselves.
-Ability to use problem solving skills and critical thinking in an ever-changing work environment.
-One of the highest job satisfaction rates.

Aside from the obvious, with the continuing integration of the DPT degree and through Vision 2020, physical therapists will be better recognized as independent health care professionals. As baby boomers continue to age, their demand for physical therapy will be greater. Employment of physical therapists is expected to grow 27 percent from 2006 to 2016, much faster than the average for all occupations. All these reasons help put my mind at ease that I am making a sound decision for my future.

 

[henohenoman]

This has been discussed over n over. The debt to income ratio has driven to look into more profitable health professions like PA. But in the end my instinct tells me that PT is a field where I can see myself working in years down the road. So I decided to deal with it either by living like a hermit for a couple of years after graduation or chase the $$ (there are high-paying jobs in PT if you look for it) or both.

OR if you are really lucky:

Permanent Physical Therapist
Offering up to $70K in student loan repayment! Stable health system, located near Lake Winnebago and just one hour from Madison, has opening for full-time Physical Therapist. PT will focus on an orthopedic/sports medicine caseload, but will also rotate into acute care. New graduates encouraged to apply. This beautiful, family-friendly community offers easy access to all of Wisconsin's top cities. For more information, please contact Evan Silverman at ***-***-**** or ****@*****.***.

• Outpatient orthopedic focus
• Stable health system
• Days only schedule
• Mentorship available
• Amazing loan repayment program
• Beautiful, safe community
• Great benefits

Lol hope we see more jobs like this after graduating in a few years! GL with your decision.

 

[FitnessDoc2012]

yeh hopefully there are more job openings like that around in a few years....I looked into PA as well but just don't see myself doing that 10 years from now. it just seems like being a PT in an outpatient setting seems to fit me well but the debt just seems financially irresponsible...

 

[markelmarcel]

I don't see how it's a 1:2 ratio.... I figure that I will have about $75k in debt (and that's overshooting by around 10k), but at some point in my career I will be making that. My anatomy professor (who is Chinese) said a friend of his (also Chinese) got a job starting at $75k as a PT and "she barely speak English -it bad". Haha. (Granted I don't know the details, but I found his comment funny.)

Even if I only start around $50k it's still not 1:2 for what I'll pay for my education...

 

[henohenoman]

I'm Chinese too & I speak English!! That means I can potentially start out at >75K...All hope is not lost lol. But seriously there seems to be many job postings that offer 5k-20k sign-on bonus or repayment plan (in exchange for 1-3 yrs commitment). At least the job market will be good so as long as you are not tied down you should be able to take advantage of such opportunities.

The ratio really varies. It's around 1:2 or more at the top of the spectrum, which I think is ridiculous because those costs are comparable to some med schools. Going for PA right now would be a financially-smart move but the amount of autonomy & the type of job really depends on the the MD you are working under. So yea, I'll have faith in the profession of PT & hope it'll change for the better.

 

[markelmarcel]

I'm Chinese too & I speak English!! That means I can potentially start out at >75K...All hope is not lost lol.

Hahaha! Yes! This is EXACTLY what my prof would tell you, "Oh you super smart and speak English? MILLION DOLLARS!" haha. Sometimes his thought process makes me giggle.

But I mean, seriously you are set for life!

 

[wrennywren]

Are you single? If so, after you graduate, live very frugally and pay off as much as you can as fast as you can.

I am married and have kids, and once I am done with school, my wife will be working part time (she has a good career) in order to help aggresively pay off student loans. We will be looking at close to 70k in debt, I would guess.

 

[henohenoman]

"Oh you super smart and speak English? MILLION DOLLARS!"

I hope your professor is speaking from experience

 

[PTtoBe]

It doesn't need to be a 2:1 ratio of debt to starting salary. There are $50k programs out there...even less. If you already paid off undergrad, then you can walk out at graduation and a month later be pulling in @$60k at least, with around $500/mo. loan payments. That's very doable, and if you don't go crazy and buy new cars/houses all at once, you could even pay it off pretty aggressively.

So think long and hard about where you want to go to school. It may well be worth waiting an extra year or so to get into one that saves you $40k. Just depends on your situation (if you're employed right now, family, age, etc.).

 

[Wrestler19]

Debt scenarios were a concern of mine as well. Seems like they're starting to pop up again now that I'm beginning to make my final decisions =/ lol.

My situation will likely put me around 100k-120k in debt once I add in some of my undergraduate loans. I'm trying to remain as positive as possible and honestly, in my head I dont believe it will be too difficult to get out of a 100k debt. Yes, it sounds daunting, but is it really?

Say I'm hired for a job that averages around 60k-65k per year (If I really wanted to chip away at the debt I could go midwest, earn more than that and have them pay for living expenses). If I set 20k-30k from that 65k away per year then it would take between 3-5 years to erase 100k right? I mean, a single guy with a girlfriend could survive on 30k a year for a few years post grad school. May not have much, but I could make due.

I understand this is a very broad thought/ scenario, that other things eat into that 65k and I'm well aware that other scenarios could pop up and throw a wrench into things, but in my simple thought, 100k isnt that bad?

Furthermore, I think the biggest thing to realize is that we'll be in a field that is expected to grow even more and it pays fairly well compared to other fields. I dont think that paying off a high debt will really be a concern for any of us. We all should be making enough to live comfortably and pay off our education.

 

[markelmarcel]

It doesn't need to be a 2:1 ratio of debt to starting salary. There are $50k programs out there...even less. If you already paid off undergrad, then you can walk out at graduation and a month later be pulling in @$60k at least, with around $500/mo. loan payments. That's very doable, and if you don't go crazy and buy new cars/houses all at once, you could even pay it off pretty aggressively.

So think long and hard about where you want to go to school. It may well be worth waiting an extra year or so to get into one that saves you $40k. Just depends on your situation (if you're employed right now, family, age, etc.).

This was more of my thinking. I don't have any undergrad debt and I chose the cheapest school that was available to me/I wanted to attend. Plus, I'm "single" and have no other debt (car, house, etc.)

 

[MadTownDPT]

It doesn't need to be a 2:1 ratio of debt to starting salary. There are $50k programs out there...even less. If you already paid off undergrad, then you can walk out at graduation and a month later be pulling in @$60k at least, with around $500/mo. loan payments.

I have been accepted to a $50k program (actually more like $45k), but I don't foresee graduating with only $50k in debt, unfortunately. That amount covers tuition, but I still have to pay for rent, food, insurance, transportation, etc. for three years while not bringing in any income. Even if you live an extremely frugal lifestyle, I can't envision spending less than $1000/month on living expenses (and quite a bit more depending on where you live).

All that said, as much as the debt scares me half to death, I still think becoming a PT is worth the cost (for me at least). I have a journalism degree. My current job is tolerable, albeit not spectacular, but I only make about $30,000 a year-- and I don't see that salary going up substantially any time soon. If I can find a job making 60k as a PT, even if I have a loan payment of $1,000 a month, that still equates to roughly $48k in salary.

I won't be rich as a PT, but assuming my wife makes about the same amount as I do, we'll be living a pretty comfortable life. On top of that, I will have a job that makes me feel good. I will be helping people heal. At the end of the day, I won't care if I am driving a Ford or a Lexus. I will care if I can look myself in the mirror and know I am doing my part to make the world a better place.

 

[goose31]

I know this question has been asked several times, but I keep getting conflicting answers.

My dilemma is do I go to a top ranked private school in the south, where I ultimately want to live incurring $100,000 in debt or do I suck it up and live at home going to a good state school only incurring about $50,000 in debt.

The question I keep asking myself is the extra $50,000 in debt worth it? Is it easy to get a job in a state other than where you did your clinical experiences?

Any insight or help would be appreciated, especially from a pt who is going through paying his debts off.

 

[HeyCmonNow]

answer: no

 

[jesspt]

I know this question has been asked several times, but I keep getting conflicting answers.

My dilemma is do I go to a top ranked private school in the south, where I ultimately want to live incurring $100,000 in debt or do I suck it up and live at home going to a good state school only incurring about $50,000 in debt.

The question I keep asking myself is the extra $50,000 in debt worth it? Is it easy to get a job in a state other than where you did your clinical experiences?

Any insight or help would be appreciated, especially from a pt who is going through paying his debts off.

This question gets asked about a thousand times a year. My only assumption as to why it the topic continues to get explored is that people already know the answer, they just don't like it.

Go to the cheaper school. Or kick yourself every day for thirty years as you're paying down unnecessary extra debt when you want to be taking your family on vacation, buying a house, saving for your kids college 529 plan, paying for a wedding, etc.

 

[Base14]

Just gonna throw this in the melting pot but if your making 65k/year, you're actually only gonna take home about 48k a year of that after taxes.

 

[FitnessDoc2012]

so here is a scenario....

school tuition per year: $25k

cost of housing per year: $8k

cost of gas, food, bills per year: $6k

cost of relocation for clinicals per year: $3k

total cost per year: $42k

for 3 years....$42k X 3 = $126k principal loans

based on subsidized and unsubsidized with grad plus and interest rates...that means around $170k paid back within 10 years after graduating of principal and interest.

that equates to just under $1400 per month in loans

if avg starting salary is around $68k then that means you net around $51k per year or about $4250 per month after taxes.

Total Net after taxes and after educational loans = $4250-1400= $2,850 for mortgage, bills, food, gas, socializing, savings for the first 10 years after graduating......if you buy a $200,000 house, it is around $1500 per month mortgage + taxes which is around $1700. that leaves around $1100 for bills, food, gas, savings per month for the first 10 years.

 

[Yohan]

My dilemma is do I go to a top ranked private school in the south, where I ultimately want to live incurring $100,000 in debt or do I suck it up and live at home going to a good state school only incurring about $50,000 in debt. The question I keep asking myself is the extra $50,000 in debt worth it? Is it easy to get a job in a state other than where you did your clinical experiences?

I really can't believe people ponder this question. I agree with JessPT that they already know the answer... look at it this way, the $50k that you'll save going to the instate school can be used for a down payment on a house, moving expenses, and maybe even a new car (or just put into savings) in the south where you want to live instead of moving back home to live with your parents for the next 10 years after PT school struggling to pay back that huge debt.

Oh ya, and you can get a job in any state you want, as long as you are properly licensed.

so here is a scenario

school tuition per year: $25k

cost of housing per year: $8k

cost of gas, food, bills per year: $6k

cost of relocation for clinicals per year: $3k

total cost per year: $42k

for 3 years....$42k X 3 = $126k principal loans

based on subsidized and unsubsidized with grad plus and interest rates...that means around $170k paid back within 10 years after graduating of principal and interest.

that equates to just under $1400 per month in loans

if avg starting salary is around $68k then that means you net around $51k per year or about $4250 per month after taxes.

Total Net after taxes and after educational loans = $4250-1400= $2,850 for mortgage, bills, food, gas, socializing, savings for the first 10 years after graduating......if you buy a $200,000 house, it is around $1500 per month mortgage + taxes which is around $1700. that leaves around $1100 for bills, food, gas, savings per month for the first 10 years.

While I understand, and agree with, the point you are trying to make; here is another scenario:

school tuition per year: $25k

cost of housing per year: $8k

cost of gas, food, bills per year: $6k

cost of relocation for clinicals per year: $3k

total cost per year: $42k

for 3 years....$42k X 3 = $126k principal loans

based on subsidized and unsubsidized with grad plus and interest rates...that means around $170k paid back within 10 years after graduating of principal and interest.

that equates to just under $1400 per month in loans

if avg starting salary is around $68k then that means you net around $51k per year or about $4250 per month after taxes.

Total Net after taxes and after educational loans = $4250-1400= $2,850for mortgage, bills, food, gas, socializing, savings for the first 10 years after graduating......if you buy a $200,000 house, it is around $1500 per month mortgage + taxes which is around $1700. That leaves around $1100 + $4500 from significant other's income = $5600 for bills, food, gas, savings per month for the first 10 years

My point is each person is different and posting random scenarios is kind of pointless.

People just need to understand that DPT school is very expensive and if you are fortunate enough to get accepted to a "cheaper" school that has a decent NPTE pass rate then don't even hesitate.

IMO, Low tuition + High NPTE pass rate = Best DPT school (no matter where it is located)

 

[jbizzle]

so here is a scenario....

school tuition per year: $25k

cost of housing per year: $8k

cost of gas, food, bills per year: $6k

cost of relocation for clinicals per year: $3k

total cost per year: $42k

for 3 years....$42k X 3 = $126k principal loans

based on subsidized and unsubsidized with grad plus and interest rates...that means around $170k paid back within 10 years after graduating of principal and interest.

that equates to just under $1400 per month in loans

if avg starting salary is around $68k then that means you net around $51k per year or about $4250 per month after taxes.

Total Net after taxes and after educational loans = $4250-1400= $2,850 for mortgage, bills, food, gas, socializing, savings for the first 10 years after graduating......if you buy a $200,000 house, it is around $1500 per month mortgage + taxes which is around $1700. that leaves around $1100 for bills, food, gas, savings per month for the first 10 years.

LOL, is this a good thing or a bad thing, because ...... maybe its just me but that looks pretty good to me LOL, not to mention the bonuses and raises, and PRN weekends once or twice a month, and like Yohan said maybe the SO could help too.

 

[henohenoman]

Oh the possibilities ...Lets brainstorm:

- Find a job near home. Live off my parents (which is just what I'm doing now) and all my salary goes to loan payment for 2 years.

- Land that 100K job! Or work my arse off to get there

- Marry someone rich n who will pay for my loan...though i don't think my fiance likes that very much lol

Keep it coming guys.
Oh btw a kidney is worth $120,000 in South Africa

 

[DancerFutureDPT]

Oh the possibilities ...Lets brainstorm:
Oh btw a kidney is worth $120,000 in South Africa

If it wasn't such a pain (literally) I'd totally answer one of the ads in my college papers for brainy egg donors...you can get $10,000 per donation I believe and God knows I'm not planning on using mine

But it's a huge process and not very pleasant from what I've heard. But, desperate times call for desperate measures.

There's also selling blood plasma, which I hear you can get paid decently for and it takes like 45 minutes to do...?

 

[Wrestler19]

Where are these 50k or less schools that you guys are talking about?

I'm assuming you mean 50k or less per term? If not I feel like I missed the boat.

 

[henohenoman]

10,000 sounded like a LOT of $$ until I looked up the procedure for egg donation... Apparently they inject you with a boat-load of hormones to put you in menopause then mature the egg. You get poked by needles from outside/inside & not to mention there's a lethal risk At least girls have the options though...sperm donation's only like $100 a session & you have to go monk for weeks-months

Anyways while looking at those I found another thing you can donate! HAIR!!!
(http://www.thelivingweb.net/cash_eggs_sperm_plasma_hair.html) Time to grow em out

 

[henohenoman]

<50K programs are pretty rare I'd say. I only know 3-4 programs (NAU, UNLV, etc) and that's only for in-state tuition. So the majority of us are out of luck in term of having the choice to go to a cheap program. Here in MI in-state tuition ranges anywhere b/w 50k-70k FYI.

 

[jbizzle]

Where are these 50k or less schools that you guys are talking about?

I'm assuming you mean 50k or less per term? If not I feel like I missed the boat.

In state tuition for University of Florida, a high ranked school, is around 20K/year. 60 K for 3 years, is awesome!!!.

 

[Azpt]

Yeah, NAU's tuition is roughly $22,000 for all 3 years combined for instate students.

 

[jbizzle]

Yeah, NAU's tuition is roughly $22,000 for all 3 years combined for instate students.

 

[kcrat21]

since everyone is so adamant about going to the cheapest school possible, can someone please tell me which private/out-of-state pub schools offer the cheapest tuition? I'm sick of VA and I want to go out of state, but every school I look into is $90k..the schools around me are $90k too, however I have the options of ODU and VCU (assuming I can even get in) if I want to move to Norfolk or Richmond ...

so someone please enlighten me as to which schools not in VA have a reasonable tuition rate for out-of-state students, please!

 

[jbizzle]

since everyone is so adamant about going to the cheapest school possible, can someone please tell me which private/out-of-state pub schools offer the cheapest tuition? I'm sick of VA and I want to go out of state, but every school I look into is $90k..the schools around me are $90k too, however I have the options of ODU and VCU (assuming I can even get in) if I want to move to Norfolk or Richmond ...

so someone please enlighten me as to which schools not in VA have a reasonable tuition rate for out-of-state students, please!

LOL, well let me list my two schools that I have been accepted to. Touro-Bay Shore is pretty "cheap" and so is Southwest Baptist University. Long Island is pretty expensive so the total for Touro will be high because of the COL. I know Alabama State University is pretty cheap even for out of state residents.

 

[jesspt]

since everyone is so adamant about going to the cheapest school possible, can someone please tell me which private/out-of-state pub schools offer the cheapest tuition? I'm sick of VA and I want to go out of state, but every school I look into is $90k..the schools around me are $90k too, however I have the options of ODU and VCU (assuming I can even get in) if I want to move to Norfolk or Richmond ...

so someone please enlighten me as to which schools not in VA have a reasonable tuition rate for out-of-state students, please!

I can tell you there is a world of difference between northern VA and the rest of VA. I lived in Richmond for five years and NOVA for two, and frankly, there is no job in the world that would pay me enough to get me to move back to NOVA. No way.

But, after I got used to Richmond, I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. And, if you get into VCU, it is quite a good program, that should be considerably cheaper than $90K.

 

[Yohan]

since everyone is so adamant about going to the cheapest school possible, can someone please tell me which private/out-of-state pub schools offer the cheapest tuition? I'm sick of VA and I want to go out of state, but every school I look into is $90k..the schools around me are $90k too, however I have the options of ODU and VCU (assuming I can even get in) if I want to move to Norfolk or Richmond ...

so someone please enlighten me as to which schools not in VA have a reasonable tuition rate for out-of-state students, please!

Well NAU's out-of-state tuition is about 60k for the whole program I think.

I was in kind of a similar situation as you. Being a resident of Oregon the only in-state option for me is a private school (~80K). I wish I had the oppurtunity to apply to a public in-state school... oh well, it is what it is. Most of the private or out-of-state schools I looked into were about 75K +/-3.5K, not exactly "cheap". But, there are scholarship opportunities available at most schools that will help reduce the cost and some schools will allow you to gain residency after the first year of school.

 

[henohenoman]

University of Miami, for being in the top 10, is very reasonably priced at ~75K for 3 whole years. Also taking in consideration of opportunity cost, 2.5yr long programs like UDel & Arcadia can also come ahead of the tuition game (potentially 1/2 year worth of income + less loan spent on housing), if you can tolerate the intensity. Arcadia also give out generous merit-based scholarship which chip the tuition down to the 70K range.

 

[henohenoman]

Haha I know. N there is a possibility to apply for in-state tuition rate after the 1st year. Which is why it hurts me so much for having to turn down an interview from them

 

[PTtoBe]

For Pacific Northwesterners, University of Washington, in Seattle, is only $56k for residents. Eastern Washington University is even less at $33k.

 

[kcrat21]

I can tell you there is a world of difference between northern VA and the rest of VA. I lived in Richmond for five years and NOVA for two, and frankly, there is no job in the world that would pay me enough to get me to move back to NOVA. No way.

But, after I got used to Richmond, I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. And, if you get into VCU, it is quite a good program, that should be considerably cheaper than $90K.

oh i know. NoVA is like its own ridiculously overpriced state completely separate from the rest of VA. I could go on a rant...but I'll spare you all.

As far as schools that will let you gain residency status after the first year, do we know which schools/states do that? I heard from someone else on this board that FL absolutely does not....anyone else?

 

[One More Rep]

since everyone is so adamant about going to the cheapest school possible, can someone please tell me which private/out-of-state pub schools offer the cheapest tuition? I'm sick of VA and I want to go out of state, but every school I look into is $90k..the schools around me are $90k too, however I have the options of ODU and VCU (assuming I can even get in) if I want to move to Norfolk or Richmond ...

so someone please enlighten me as to which schools not in VA have a reasonable tuition rate for out-of-state students, please!

Hunter College in Manhattan, NYC. From the website: "Estimated tuition for Non-New York State residents is $645 per credit for the first 1 1/2 years and $4,580 per semester thereafter. Total tuition would be $53,795 (plus fees) for the entire three years."

It is a hell of a deal! However, it is extremely competitive to get in since they only take 28 people.

 

[FitnessDoc2012]

once you factor the cost of living (rent, food, bills, etc) for the majority of these schools, you'd still be approaching the 80k-100k amount with tuition and cost of living. can't just go off of what the tuition is, also need to include what it will cost to live in that area where the school is

 

[pumpkinpatch]

For Illinois residents, NIU is about $25,000 for the entire three years combined. They have good pass rates for the NPTE (my interviewer told me it was in the 90's for first time, and 100% overall). I'm not sure how much it is for out of state, but even if it was 2X as much, that's still not bad. COL is also very low in that area. Granted, it is in the middle of cornfields But hey, fewer distractions = better study environment!

 

[kcrat21]

Hunter College in Manhattan, NYC. From the website: "Estimated tuition for Non-New York State residents is $645 per credit for the first 1 1/2 years and $4,580 per semester thereafter. Total tuition would be $53,795 (plus fees) for the entire three years."

It is a hell of a deal! However, it is extremely competitive to get in since they only take 28 people.

Except you live in Manhattan so the COL kind of outweighs the tuition break....

 

[hefe]

Well who says you need to live in Manhattan, who affords that besides bankers? You could probably commute from a Jersey apartment. Not as convenient sure, but I'm sure thousands manage to do it every day.

 

[kcrat21]

If I wanted the crappy commute I'd just stay in NoVA and go to Marymount

 

[hefe]

lol, well then everywhere is going to have its +'s & -'s

I do admit I wouldn't wish that commute myself, wouldn't want to live in NY area unless young and already earning a relatively decent living.

 

[kcrat21]

I have no desire to ive up north if I can help it. I'm looking at mostly southern schools. I was shocked though when I looked at some of the FL schools' OOS tuition. FGCU rounds out to be about $125k if I did the math right. I don't know how those board of trustees members sleep at night charging that much for school!

 

[FLsurferDPT]

I have no desire to ive up north if I can help it. I'm looking at mostly southern schools. I was shocked though when I looked at some of the FL schools' OOS tuition. FGCU rounds out to be about $125k if I did the math right. I don't know how those board of trustees members sleep at night charging that much for school!

FGCU is about $35K for in state students and a state supported school and thus want to matriculate in state students. FGCU is actually the cheapest program for in state students in florida. It's a beautiful area and is growing very rapidly.

 

[markelmarcel]

Yeah... I just did a loan calculator... for 70k in loans my monthly payment will be $805.... and it suggests that I have an income of at least 97k to be able to afford to repay my loans.

Shoot me now. Seriously. What the hell are we supposed to do???

 

[FLsurferDPT]

Yeah... I just did a loan calculator... for 70k in loans my monthly payment will be $805.... and it suggests that I have an income of at least 97k to be able to afford to repay my loans.

Shoot me now. Seriously. What the hell are we supposed to do???

maybe choose a different career. lol.

 

[wrennywren]

Yeah... I just did a loan calculator... for 70k in loans my monthly payment will be $805.... and it suggests that I have an income of at least 97k to be able to afford to repay my loans.

Shoot me now. Seriously. What the hell are we supposed to do???

Just because that's what it "suggests" doesn't mean that's what you need.

Live frugally (but you can still have a decent lifestyle) and you can pay it off. Don't waste your money on new trucks/cars, bigger house, consumer electronics and you will seriously be fine. If you are single, it won't be hard at all. Don't fret.

 

[kcrat21]

maybe choose a different career. lol.

well, that was incredibly helpful.

 

[FLsurferDPT]

well, that was incredibly helpful.

hey don't be so sensitive

if you don't have the money to become a PT, or really attend a program that you can see yourself paying back the loans, or money you borrowed with interest, then you should find a different career. It's actually pretty sound advice.