Confused MD/DO situation

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ankit1ag

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I am having a very difficult decision between applying to DO program in the US or an MD program in the Carribeans affiliated with the US. I have always wanted to go for MD, but residency is most important in my opinion. Does an FMG from like SGU in Grenada and a DO graduate have the same competition for residencies or does it not matter.

Here are my terrible mcat scores:
may 07: PS 8 VR 7 BS 9 Total 24O
jan 07: PS 7 VR 8 BS 10 Total 25Q
aug 06: PS 8 VR 8 BS 8 Total 24
aug 05: PS 6 VR 7 BS 7 Total 20M

I know that I have no chance in any US MD program. I am really aiming for SGU, but then again, DO might be an option if it has better chances with landing a good residency.

PS: Can someone please direct me to some threads in this forum dealing with this issue.

Thanks,

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Does anyone know where I can find stats on residency programs and competiveness with regards to DO's and FMG MDs. I am really trying to decide which line I should go for. I know that with my scores I have no chance with any US MD program:

may 07: PS 8 VR 7 BS 9 Total 24O
jan 07: PS 7 VR 8 BS 10 Total 25Q
aug 06: PS 8 VR 8 BS 8 Total 24
aug 05: PS 6 VR 7 BS 7 Total 20M

I am most concerned about US residency competition once med school is over. I am hearing that DOs have more preference over FMGs. Can anyone direct me to threads or sites that can give me more info.

Thanks,
 
Here is a good place to start; from the forum FAQ:

DO or Caribbean?

This is the topic of many heated discussions over the years. The threads usually look the same and many end up in flame wars which get closed, however here is one that sums up the opinions on the DO forum rather nicely. Remember, if you ask this question on the DO forum you will get a DO biased answer, if you ask if on the FMG forum you may get different answers. In the end, it is up to you to evaluate which better suits you, DO, MD, or FMG MD.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=130591&page=1&pp=25
 
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I am having a very difficult decision between applying to DO program in the US or an MD program in the Carribeans affiliated with the US. I have always wanted to go for MD, but residency is most important in my opinion. Does an FMG from like SGU in Grenada and a DO graduate have the same competition for residencies or does it not matter.

Here are my terrible mcat scores:
may 07: PS 8 VR 7 BS 9 Total 24O
jan 07: PS 7 VR 8 BS 10 Total 25Q
aug 06: PS 8 VR 8 BS 8 Total 24
aug 05: PS 6 VR 7 BS 7 Total 20M

I know that I have no chance in any US MD program. I am really aiming for SGU, but then again, DO might be an option if it has better chances with landing a good residency.

PS: Can someone please direct me to some threads in this forum dealing with this issue.

Thanks,

This won't be an answer to your dilemma as I don't know enough about Carribean schools or DO schools to speak about the subject. I can't direct you to specific threads either, but I have a couple of comments. Two doctors (one MD, one DO) at a certain hospital in CT told me that DO in the US is a better option than MD in the Carribean. You say that you KNOW you have no chance at any US MD program. Remember that whereas your MCAT is important, so is your GPA and other considerations. You show an upward trend, and none of your recent scores is below 7. Based on the information provided in the MSAR, you may be in better shape than you think. If you have a bad GPA or already applied to a range of schools several times before, and are simply sick of this kind of advice, I apologize. I just hope you are not giving up too easily.
 
DO's have their own AOA residency programs, but can also opt to match for ACGME (allopathic) residencies. Basically, although DO's can participate in the AOA match (osteopathic) and in the NRMP match (allopathic), it's an either/or proposition; you can only match in one type of program because when that match happens, you get bumped from the other.

Here is some additional information:

2007 NRMP Data

2006 Annual Statistical Report on Osteopathic Medical Education

Residency Match Lists for DO schools

DO Post-doctoral Training

Percentage Matching First Choice in the AOA Match by School
 
Here is some of the same advice, and some a little different.


From my extremely limited experience, I think that a US DO school would probably give you more opportunities than a Carribean MD. In fact, I recently learned that DO's can apply to any residency that an MD can, but there are some residencies reserved specifically for DO's. Philosophically, there is a difference between DO and MD medicine. Practically, however, that gap is closing pretty quickly.

Now for the different - I think that your assessment of your chance at US MD is pretty accurate. It only costs money to apply, but it does cost money. See what I mean? It's not going to hurt anything but your wallet to throw an AMCAS out there, but please don't get your hopes up. And I don't think that taking the MCAT again is a good idea. Sorry.

On a lighter note, you are plenty competitive MCAT-wise for either a DO or C-MD slot. You can absolutely still be a doctor.
 
I agree with ryandote that you would be competitive for at least some DO programs and most C-MD programs. Here's where to go for further forum discussion of these options:

DO: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=13
C-MD: http://www.valuemd.com/

Someone above recommended an SMP. To be honest, I don't see that as being realistic for you. Given that you've taken the MCAT 4 times, it's probably time to assume that your MCAT score is not going to go up-- and make your decisions from there.

Good luck to you! :luck:
 
That is a difficult situation. I am sure that you already considered this, but perhaps you could go to a few years of graduate school, and then try this whole process out again. I would personally prefer a C-MD (or an israeli medical school) to a DO (check the links in my signature for reasons why). Perhaps apply to both, visit, then decide?
 
That is a difficult situation. I am sure that you already considered this, but perhaps you could go to a few years of graduate school, and then try this whole process out again. I would personally prefer a C-MD (or an israeli medical school) to a DO (check the links in my signature for reasons why). Perhaps apply to both, visit, then decide?

Let's get this out of the way: no offense intended.


I find both of your links to be particularly weak, mostly because we are all talking about DO vs Foreign MD.

Link number 1 seems to only reference MD schools in the United States. Since OP is thinking about Carribean MD, it doesn't seem relevant. In fact, both articles seem to be comparing US MD to US DO.

Link number 2 seems to pack most of its punch in some very anecdotal letters at the bottom. Anecdotal evidence is always suspect. Also, one of the main criticisms of DO's is that they practice "chelation therapy, clinical ecology, orthomolecular therapy, homeopathy, ayurvedic medicine" - If the OP doesn't do those things, it doesn't seem to matter to her individually if others do.

I would re-assert that the philosophy and curriculum are slightly different, no doubt. However, in real practice, the gap is closing quickly.

Who wrote article #1 ? It seems to be hosted on somebody's personal page. I have a hard time seeing Stephen Barrett as an impartial judge of character...
 
Caribbean MD =/= US MD or DO

You will face an up hill battle in securing most residencies if you go to the Caribbean. Take the DO.
 
ryandote:

I agree that they do not address non-US MD schools..... I'm begining to feel like this is too off topic, so PM me if you would like to talk about it more.
 
ryandote:

I agree that they do not address non-US MD schools.

...

I'm begining to feel like this is too off topic, so PM me if you would like to talk about it more.

Fair enough. I can absolutely respect that.
 
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OP, look into DO schools. You will ALWAYS, ALWAYS have an easier time getting into a good US residency by staying in the US. There are few US doctors that will disagree with that. (Though there are plenty of premeds who will :laugh:)

All 3 of the DO schools I interviewed at this year had better facilities than the MD schools I have interviewed at. Don't listen to rumors - find out. Read the DO boards on SDN, and look at the AACOM website. Good luck. Apply early!
 
Have you considered any of the SMP programs that are linked with a med school. I know the link for the FSU one, but there are several others.

SMPs are generally for people who have low GPAs and very strong MCAT. They will do nothing if you have a low MCAT score. Don't go the SMP route, it will be a waste of money.

In fact, I recently learned that DO's can apply to any residency that an MD can, but there are some residencies reserved specifically for DO's.

While DO stock is rising, I think that your post was a touch misleading. While a DO can apply to any MD residency, it is significantly harder to garner a competitive residency as a DO. That said, MD from the carribean probably fare worse than DOs in that respect.

While there are specific DO residencies, most DOs opt to try for MD residencies. Put whatever emphasis that you want to on that, but that is how it goes.

All 3 of the DO schools I interviewed at this year had better facilities than the MD schools I have interviewed at. Don't listen to rumors - find out. Read the DO boards on SDN, and look at the AACOM website. Good luck. Apply early!

This is probably true, of course that is because most osteopathic schools are very young. Many DO schools do have to do away rotations because there is not enough space at their local hospitals or do not have a local hospital to work with. So take that into consideration as you look through the different DO schools.
 
Hi there! I have done extensive research on DO schools seeing as how I started a DO club at my school. I also know several people who have gone to the caribbean and needless to say....I really don't know where they are right now (they kinda disappear). It will be MUCH easier for you to gain acceptance to a US residency if you do the DO track. However, you need to want DO very much, DO interviewers are very aware that many students use DO as a backup plan. make sure you do plenty of research, you can pm me if you want any more information on it, I know plenty. Additionally, there are actually several states that no longer make a distinction between DO's and MD's, once you've graduated, your white coat will say MD on it. Also, the people I know who have come back from the caribbean, one of them never got a residency, she gave up trying, is working as a hospitalist, and now is $240,000 in debt (SGU costs $60,000 a year, that's tuition only) with a job that doesn't enable her to pay it off as easily. That being said, it is definitely possible to gain a US residency from the caribbean but you better be sure you can score at least a 90% on your boards which is obviously very hard to do. Good luck with your application and I hope you end up in a school where you will be happy! :)
 
That is a difficult situation. I am sure that you already considered this, but perhaps you could go to a few years of graduate school, and then try this whole process out again. I would personally prefer a C-MD (or an israeli medical school) to a DO (check the links in my signature for reasons why). Perhaps apply to both, visit, then decide?


There does seem to be a lot of anecdotal evidence on those links, but it is no secret that the top medical schools in the US are allopathic. But in my opinion, there are definitely some osteopathic schools that are better than some allopathic schools (again my own opinion), so unless you are going to the Harvard type schools, I suggest you research each option available to you. Just as your own links suggested, the top students in each osteopathic class are the students intelligent enough to have been accepted to any medical school, and it is these students who routinely get the best residencies in both AOA and ACGME residencies. So if you are dedicated/motivated/intelligent enough to belong there you will succede.

And to the OP: even the "tail-end" of osteopathic classes end up in residencies, which is something I cant say about carribbean schools. If your a top notch student in the carrib you will succede, but if you fall in the middle or tail end of the class, you will have a much harder time in getting a residency.
 
I completed medical school at an American allopathic institution, so perhaps my answer will be biased.

I worked alongside both DO's and FMG's this past year, and have seen and heard firsthand how many departments and their respective attendings view each. At my hospital, the American DO is preferred over the foreign MD.

I really have no opinion on the matter. If you're smart and working hard, I don't really care where you went to school or what it says on your coat. But be prepared to encounter prejudices in the medical community either way.
 
one thing that all people on sdn can agree upon is this

DO>Carribean
 
Ankit ji

I can relate to your situation. Altho I only took the mcat once, i applied to both do and md schools. i was more well received by the do schools, no doubt. i did, however, have md interviews as well. in my mind, carribean schools were not an option. i would not be willing to relocate and perhaps comprimise part of my future simply for the 2 letters that will go after my name. The two letters that go before my name (Dr.) will still be there.
Additionally, it is has been said quite often that the do/md debate is simply a pre-med one. I have heard of certain residency programs that a do will simply not be competitive for. but compared to being a foreign grad, you will be alot better off. the choice is personal, some people just want that title, and are willing to whatever it takes to get it. so that is up to you.
also, keep in mind that you are still applying. at this time, you should still keep your options open. applying has no committment with it. apply to both. hopefully you'll get a few interviews and will be able to see the schools first hand. then compare them to the carribean schools you are thinking about. good luck.
 
Do not listen to the advice of any of the pre-meds here. The answer to your question is extremely simple:

1) If being close to your family and friends is important to you and you think it's a necessity to survive the rigors of medical school, then chose the DO school close to your family.

2) If you absolutely cannot stand OMM, think it's all a bunch of garbage, and can't envision yourself wasting time studying for it, then go MD.

There are residencies open to only DOs, in addition to the MD residencies they can apply for, and everyone and their mother knows of an MD residency that doesn't like FMGs, and an MD residency that doesn't like DOs. The two factors I listed above are what you should base your decision on.
 
one thing that all people on sdn can agree upon is this

DO>Carribean

I guess I have to agree here, out of all the MD/DO flame wars, the DO/Carribbean debates never gets as bad because most people on SDN usually support the DO route. It is usually an AMG vs FMG debate more than an MD or Do thing and most people would much rather go the AMG route
 
Caribbean MD =/= US MD or DO

You will face an up hill battle in securing most residencies if you go to the Caribbean. Take the DO.

I second that. If you want to practice in America, go to school in America. Also, DO's are growing rapidly in prestige and soon may be on the same plateau as MD's. Lastly, as Carn mentioned, DO's have a very easy time in the match, because they have their choice between allo residencies and osteo residencies, where MD's are restricted to allo only. Also, as a DO in America you'll have an easier time passing your boards to practice in America than a FMG will simply because you'll be trained to take our test while FMG's may not be.
 
I would personally prefer a C-MD (or an israeli medical school) to a DO (check the links in my signature for reasons why). Perhaps apply to both, visit, then decide?

The links in your signature are amusing. You took the opinions of 2 people and an internet encyclopedia listing of the man who invented osteopathic education in the 1800's and that's what you're basing your advice to the OP on?

When I was applying to MD and DO schools I read about the history of both. Since you've dedicated your signature space to telling people why they should get an allopathic education based on your 3 sources in your link, you should probably do a little research on the history of allopathy as well. Are you aware that in the 1800's (around the same time that Dr. Still's comment was made) that allopaths treated a wide variety of conditions with Mercury, thinking that it "cleansed" the system? Look up some of the immediate and cumulative effects of mercury poisoning. They also used strychnine, arsenic and antimony as treatments. Is it any wonder why someone (an MD) tried to break away from the mainstream and tried to find alternative treatments for illnesses at the time? 150 years later, just as no osteopathic physician in his right mind would shake a child to cure a disease, I'm sure no allopathic physician would try to give mercury to a patient with abdominal pains.

Seems to me when you were making your decision for yourself about MD vs. DO you were a tad biased to begin with. That's fine, it's your right to choose the path that's best for you regardless of what your reasoning is. Your happyness is the most important factor. But it's wrong to give inquiring pre-meds one sided information when you yourself haven't set foot in a medical school yet and got your information from the opinions of 2 people and a quote from the 1800's. Perhaps I should change my signature to a quote about how effective mercury and arsenic are in treating patients "allopathically"?
 
DO's have their own AOA residency programs, but can also opt to match for ACGME (allopathic) residencies. Basically, although DO's can participate in the AOA match (osteopathic) and in the NRMP match (allopathic), it's an either/or proposition; you can only match in one type of program because when that match happens, you get bumped from the other.

what do you mean it's an either/or proposition? as a DO, you have to choose to apply to only DO residencies or MD residencies, but not both? i've never heard of that before. just trying to get the facts straight since i am on the path becoming a DO lol.

and OP, as everyone else here, i may be biased, but from what i've seen FMGs have to work much harder to get into an MD residency. with good USMLE scores, DOs seem to have no problem with getting into an MD residency. of course, there are certain programs don't do even look at a DO applicant, but i'm not sure what the stats are on that.

also the MD/DO divide seems to only be at the premed/med school level. once you're out there treating patients and working, no one pays attention to what initials come at the end of your name.
 
Those are all good points. The OP should definetly consider this advice!
 
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what do you mean it's an either/or proposition? as a DO, you have to choose to apply to only DO residencies or MD residencies, but not both? i've never heard of that before. just trying to get the facts straight since i am on the path becoming a DO lol.

You can enter both the DO & MD matches. But the DO match happens before the MD match. If you match into any DO residency, you are removed automatically from the MD match. But yes, you can enter both.

You can also just enter the MD match.
You can also just enter the DO match.
 
what do you mean it's an either/or proposition? as a DO, you have to choose to apply to only DO residencies or MD residencies, but not both? i've never heard of that before. just trying to get the facts straight since i am on the path becoming a DO lol.

Yeah, it's a little hard to explain. What I meant to say is that you can apply to both matches, but if you match in one, then you get bumped from the other. It's my understanding that since the AOA match preceeds the NRMP match, if you match into an AOA residency, you get automatically bumped from the NRMP match.
 
You can enter both the DO & MD matches. But the DO match happens before the MD match. If you match into any DO residency, you are removed automatically from the MD match. But yes, you can enter both.

You can also just enter the MD match.
You can also just enter the DO match.

that sucks.
 
I don't want to get into the MD vs DO debate here (its against site rules). If you would like to have it, PM me. The authors of the articles are authority figures on the subject (as I showed in a previous post). The difference between the allopathic and osteopathic medical blunders in the 1880s is that osteopathic schools still promote the use of theirs (in order to preserve their uniqueness from allopathic schools) while MD schools do not. As far as my "decision" about a professional degree, it was an easy one to make.

I look forward to hearing from you.

If the discussion from here on out continues, I will continue it via PM, but I feel pre-meds need to see a rational, civil answer to your point.

Authority figures how? One taught basic sciences at both an MD and DO school and spoke about a specific encounter to back up an opinion. For the one story about how a lecturer said "the osteopathic students can't handle this type of lecture", I can give you a story about an MD who lectures at our school and gives the same exact lecture to students at Cornell's medical school. So you see, anecdotal evidence and an opinion is not enough to call someone an authority on an issue. Sure he taught at both an MD and DO school so that makes him more qualified to speak about these issues than most, and I agree with some of his points but not all.

As far as your point about osteopathic schools still promoting the use of their "blunders," the practice and education of an osteopathic physician in this day and age is extremely different than one from the 1800s and this is why you need to get first hand information from actual students rather than the internet. First of all, throughout my 2 years of basic sciences, I hadn't heard anyone mention a word about chelation therapy and we had one 2-hour lecture about complimentary alternative medicine. Second, we had OMM a few hours per week. These few hours were the only difference between my education and the education my friends at an MD school got. In these labs, we learned some things that in my opinion are useful, some of which are used by physical therapists and even orthopedic physicians (MD or DO), and we also learned some nonsense such as cranial manipulations. But NONE of these techniques are a primary treatment for a serious condition that have proven therapies . For example, you don't use cranial manipulations to cure encephalitis or brain tumors. It's use is directed more towards tension headaches, migraines, etc.. Maybe a patient has a sensitive stomach and can't take NSAIDS and triptans are ineffective in treating their migraine. Could it hurt to try cranial therapy in this case if nothing else works? If someone has bacterial pneumonia, the absolute first treatment is antibiotics regardless of if you're an MD or DO. Once on antibiotics, some DOs talk about the benefits of rib-raising techniques to improve breathing and lymphatic techniques to improve lymphatic flow. Can I say for certain that these treatments make a big difference in the patients recovery? I personally cannot since I'm still at the medical student stage, but I know there are some residents and doctors out there who say they do. Regardless, performing these two techniques are not harming the patient in the least and the patients are getting the proven theraputic treatment as well. Same goes for sinus infections and otitis media. If viral, the patient can use decongestants and antihisamines, if bacterial, antibiotics. IN ADDITION, DOs have certain techniques that supposedly improve sinus drainage. Once again I stress to you that these techniques are IN ADDITION to the proven therapies.

How about the patient who was in a car accident a week ago? AFTER MRIs, CAT scans, and x-rays all come back negative, there are certain manipulations that can relieve the residual muscle tightness. I'm not talking about high velocity thrusting techniques, I'm talking about low key techniques that target muscle spindles in the muscle fiber. Do they 100% work? I can't say. Some studies say yes, some say no. But again, at the very least these techniques are not hurting the patient.

So that's how we learned at my school and it's quite different from the conclusions you and other pre-meds draw from looking at internet sources and basing opinions on hearsay. I can't say it works exactly the same at every other school and obviously there are still DOs out there who claim OMM can treat any illness and these are the quacks. However, you need to look at the majority, not the minority. I can 100% absolutely assure you that no DO in this day and age of lawsuits will attempt to treat scarlet fever by shaking a child or performing OMM on it. The fact that you keep saying this in your signature removes all credibility from your opinion on the field of osteopathic medicine, however inexperienced and naive it may be to begin with.
 
Everyone is so obsessed with saying, "It doesn't matter what two letters you have after your name." That's not the point. I put in a deposit at a Caribbean MD school early on but shortly thereafter got accepted into a US MD school. I was told by physicians almost exclusively to go to a C-MD school over a DO school. Personally, it's not the letters that would bother me about the DO school. I read about their philosophies that are pervasive throughout the entire curriculum and I found it extremely hard to buy into that system of teaching. I simply don't believe wholeheartedly in the system of teaching and the focus of the curriculum, and I therefore could not attend school there for 4 years. Just like everything else in life, the letters after your name will matter to certain people. Don't be so defensive about those things and choose a school based on where you would be the most comfortable. Although it is harder to make it back in the US once you are an FMG, it definitely can be done. You just have to work harder than the rest of us unfortunately. For US MD students, getting into school is the hardest part - that is not the case in the Caribbean. Just make sure you are aware of exactly what it is that you are getting yourself into.
 
As for school choice, don't discount the difficulty of getting an MD from a Carribbean Medical school, as opposed to a US medical school. MD and DO schools in the US have 90+% pass rates, Ross Medical is much lower.


I wonder how much of this is a function of the school, and how much of this is a function of less-science-capable people attending Ross (as evidenced by lower MCAT and GPA averages).


My WAG (wild-a** guess) says it's more on the people than the school.
 
Can you explain the curriculum at a C-MD? I've tried looking but can't find anything. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
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Wow. Your article that you claim as evidence is extremely dated. Do you have any current articles to back up your claim? It even has Lee Burnett at the bottom of the screen! And to say that your claims are not relevant to the discussion, it might help the OP to see how some of the students think and why.

I would like for this not to turn into a flame discussion though.

If anything I'd take from this 'dated' article (from pre-2000) would support the majority that DO > Caribbean only since its been stated that clinical faculties/rotations would be a strong point.
 
Wait, what is the source on that stuff? Is it recent? A link would be great...
 
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Personally, it's not the letters that would bother me about the DO school. I read about their philosophies that are pervasive throughout the entire curriculum and I found it extremely hard to buy into that system of teaching. I simply don't believe wholeheartedly in the system of teaching and the focus of the curriculum, and I therefore could not attend school there for 4 years.

The problem with what you're saying is that you don't understand what the DO curriculum is. Aside from OMM, classes in Years 1 & 2 are the same as at MD schools. Look at schools that have both DO & MD students - they are taking the same classes together. In Years 3 & 4, they have the same required rotations. So reading your faulty reasoning just proves that most premeds that run to the off shore schools that claim "difference with the DO philosophy" are more or less full of it!
 
Like I said, I don't know much about Caribbean schools, and if I did, I very well may support a DO over a Caribbean MD as well.

Also, I am unaware of any Osteopathic revolution that has happened in the last eight years that would make this article from 1999 irrelevant. Infact, that is alot of the point of each article--that despite changes in medicine, osteopathy stays loyal to techniques that are not based in science but instead based in the tradition of Dr. Still's dubius "philosohpy." Maybe you could fill me in.
I really can't comment anymore since you seem willfully ignorant on the issues of osteopathic medicine, which really is ashame. You really have no idea how far the profession has come over the past 10 years? Search the osteopathic forums and educate yourself. There is a lot to learn about the D.O. degree!!! Things have changed! (although, students are still pushing for change!)

With that said, my opinion from talking to various people in Caribbean and osteopathic medicine. If you really can't live with the letters "D.O." after your name, don't bother applying and taking a spot away from those who truly want to be osteopathic physicians or physicians in general. Allopathic and Osteopathic medicine are on the same path and are very similar degrees as with other doctoral degrees in medicine. Coutries around the world recognize the american medical D.O. degree, even in countries where osteopaths are prevelant. The AMA president issued a report in 1959 that DO education was equivilent to MD's. Even back then the rift was being bridged. Is there still ignorance on the profession? Of course. Are all schools created equal? Of course not. Life is dynamic and constantly changing. Administrations are changing, Staff is changing, etc. I could ramble on more but this isn't the time or place.

Summary: Caribbean medicine and international schools are a valid alternative to the MD degree but the path might not be any easier than the DO degree.
 
I'm not going to have this discussion. This does not help the OP in his decision, and he needs our help. However, I will continue to defend the merits of the authors of each article I linked and would request that you PM me if you would like to talk about DO vs MD so as not to break any site rules or hijack this thread.

The person that you said "taught basic sciences at both an MD and DO school" was actually an associate-dean at an osteopathic school for seven years. Although his article just may be his "opinion," as you state, his opinion carries alot of weight as he is an authority on the subject. Your experience that you describe in your post in anecdotal evidence; what Dr. Jones, PhD talks about is a trend that he found in Osteopathic schools. Dr Jones describes his experience with osteopathy: "my experience with osteopathic institutions include the 12 years I contributed to the Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine, the experience I had with the osteopathic medical school in Kirksville, Missouri and the many interactions with other osteopathic schools which resulted from these." This is sufficient for me to take his opinion seriously. I will link his article again here.

I look forward to your PM as well and would like to direct this thread back on topic so we can help the OP with his dilemma.

2 Questions for you:

1. Have you even applied or been accepted to a med school yet? You speak as though you are a shoe in for US MD. You may be in for a brutal reality check.

2. Did a DO eat your baby? You seem so angry and discriminatory. I wonder what else you hate. Good luck to you though.
 
I don't know much about DO but I have heard that they take a different board exam than USMLE. Do they have to take both exams to compete for MD residencies?

Also, does anyone know what the difference in scores are to be competitive for US MD residency programs as a DO. For example, an SGU student told me that you need to score about 10 pts higher on the usmle to compete with the US MD students.

I am afraid that I won't do as well on the boards since I didn't do that well on the MCAT exam. Some of the posts are disheartening when they point out that some Carribean MDs don't complete med school or don't end up in a US residency program. I am so dissappointed in myself. I can't believe my score on the MCAT because I studied very hard and was focused for the may exam. My scores on this test have now put me in a position that I never thought would happen to me.
 
I'm not going to have this discussion. This does not help the OP in his decision, and he needs our help. However, I will continue to defend the merits of the authors of each article I linked and would request that you PM me if you would like to talk about DO vs MD so as not to break any site rules or hijack this thread.

The person that you said "taught basic sciences at both an MD and DO school" was actually an associate-dean at an osteopathic school for seven years. Although his article just may be his "opinion," as you state, his opinion carries alot of weight as he is an authority on the subject. Your experience that you describe in your post in anecdotal evidence; what Dr. Jones, PhD talks about is a trend that he found in Osteopathic schools. Dr Jones describes his experience with osteopathy: "my experience with osteopathic institutions include the 12 years I contributed to the Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine, the experience I had with the osteopathic medical school in Kirksville, Missouri and the many interactions with other osteopathic schools which resulted from these." This is sufficient for me to take his opinion seriously. I will link his article again here.

I look forward to your PM as well and would like to direct this thread back on topic so we can help the OP with his dilemma.


As I previously said, nobody in this day and age would shake a baby to treat scarlet fever, yet that quote is in your signature. That's misleading pre-meds who don't know any better. I could look up a few quotes from allopathic physicians in the 1800s and they would seem just as silly (cleansing the body with Mercury).

I notice you didn't acknowledge the fact that one of the people who replied to the "authority's" editorial proved one of his blanket statements about the quality of students false. Michigan's allopathic school students sit in on the same classes as the osteopathic students, therefore getting the same lecture. Now how can one be stronger than the other? I have no interest in continuing this debate via PM since I'm already in a medical school and can state things from experience without making generalizations. But I won't go around telling people not to go into a profession based on how it was practiced 150 years ago. As a pre-med who hasn't set foot in a medical school yet, I just ask you to not pass your advice off to other pre-med students as fact since you only tell one side of the story with your links, some of which is inaccurate at that. If you want to give advice, I suggest shadowing a DO and seeing with your own eyes what happens since you seem to have plenty of misconceptions, rather than reading things on the internet and declaring who's an expert in the field and who isn't.
 
Eh, come on guys. Don't turn this into a bashing thread, then it will be closed. The OP has a valid concern, lets try to address it professionally. :)
 
I don't know much about DO but I have heard that they take a different board exam than USMLE. Do they have to take both exams to compete for MD residencies?

Also, does anyone know what the difference in scores are to be competitive for US MD residency programs as a DO. For example, an SGU student told me that you need to score about 10 pts higher on the usmle to compete with the US MD students.
You will get different opinions on that. Some residencies will accept the COMLEX (that's the osteo boards), others will require USMLE, some don't care. Its regionally dependent as well as specialty. Some areas aren't as DO friendly as others. Expanded knowledge and education is the only way to change this (and change is happening). Medicine IN GENERAL is extremely competitive these days with applications increasing to medical school and residency. DO's also have their own set of residencies, some are dually accredited by ACGME (Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education) and AOA (American Osteopathic Association).


 
Whats the over/under on the % of threads containing the initials MD and DO in the pre-allo forum that end up needing to be closed?.....I'll take the over at 85%
 
Eh, come on guys. Don't turn this into a bashing thread, then it will be closed. The OP has a valid concern, lets try to address it professionally. :)

Yes, I do not want this thread to close because of a debate on MD vs DO. I am concerned with FMG vs. DO. Also, I just want information, graduate statistics, and any other information that can help make a decision if I get accepted to both programs.

Thanks
 
Also, I am unaware of any Osteopathic revolution that has happened in the last eight years that would make this article from 1999 irrelevant. Infact, that is alot of the point of each article--that despite changes in medicine, osteopathy stays loyal to techniques that are not based in science but instead based in the tradition of Dr. Still's dubius "philosohpy." Maybe you could fill me in.

Well it is more than just "philosophy." There is evidence that supports that OMT is effective in treating MSK type disorders and in pain management, for example, back pain, and in managing pain after certain types of surgery (1, 2, 3, 4). And these were the articles that I found after only a quick Google search.

I also don't want this thread to decay into a flamefest. However, I did want to address your insinuation about OMT.
 
Yes, I do not want this thread to close because of a debate on MD vs DO. I am concerned with FMG vs. DO. Also, I just want information, graduate statistics, and any other information that can help make a decision if I get accepted to both programs.

Thanks
I don't have the time or energy to look up all the stats for you...but search for the thread containing the current residency match lists of DO schools in the DO forums...the proof is always in the pudding...
 
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