Confused.. Need help & advice

[PrePharmKid2015]

(Beware of a long post)

A bit about myself..

Indiana Resident
Business Major
first generation grad (graduated in 2013)
sGPA: 3.49- 3.5ish (don't remember exactly)
oGPA: 3.5ish
Decent volunteering experiences (mostly dental related)
Many leadership experiences

For the longest time, I thought that going to Dental school is the right path. But after failing to gain an acceptance twice, I am starting to question myself and trying to find other options. I am not interested in becoming a Vet or a MD. Other than dentistry, pharmacy is the other health- related field that I am interested in. I've many shadowing/volunteering experiences in the dental field. So I really know what dentistry is about. As for Pharm, I only know little about it. All I know is that I don't want to be a retail pharmacist. My passion is to work in a lab testing and designing drugs. Is that something possible for me to do if I get a PharmD? Does it require more schooling (like are there specialities after Pharm school)? What other job opportunities are there other than retail and hospital? And what's the right way to shadow different forms of Pharmacy? I heard that it's very hard to shadowing due to the regulation and such. Sorry I have so many questions. I feel like Pharm is hiding back there and it's difficult to dig out some of the answers.

"Once I've done shadowing and decide that pharm is the right way to go", I also have some questions about pcat and the whole application process.. When I was looking through some info online, I found that a handful of pharm schools don't require PCAT. My question is what's the likelihood of someone getting into Pharm school without PCAT. Is my GPA strong enough? I know that pharm school is also very competitive. I just want to make sure that I have what it takes to get an acceptance (if I decide it is the way to go).

Can any fellow SDN users shine some lights and share any info with me please?

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[PharmtoCS]

There are some opportunities to drug research, development, and testing with a PharmD degree but these jobs are very rare and require a year or two of fellowship, which would be very competitive and hard to get into. 70% of all pharmacist jobs are in retail, followed by 20% in hospital (mostly dispensing). A better path would be to complete a PhD in pharmacology where you don't have to take out $150-225k loans for a PharmD.

 

[Thestrugglez]

If not ok with retail, don't do pharmacy. Also, have you ever done any research. "Designing drugs" sounds a lot cooler than it actually is. PhDs are also a dime a dozen nowadays and there will always be some foreign PhD willing to work 2x as hard for half the pay for that sponsorship.

OP to me it sounds like you're only considering pharmacy school since you've been rejected twice from dental school. Did you do really bad on the DAT? Because your gpa looks ok for dental school.

And yes your gpa is strong enough. If you do decide to apply for pharmacy school, why not just take the PCAT? It's pretty easy to score in the 90s without even studying.

 

[PrePharmKid2015]

Maybe I am confused about what it means by "retail pharmacy". I thought that retail pharmacy means that you work at cvs, Walgreen, or walmart. I thought there are individual pharmaceutical companies. Do they count as retail pharmacy as well? Or are they count as a completely different field? I was looking through sdn and people have been saying things about pharmacy that I've never thought of. Is it really true that you are just a the middleman distributing pills between the doc and patients? The reason I consider pharmacy because I have always been good and better at chemistry and organic chemistry than biology. So I though maybe pharmacy would be more suitable.

@Thestrugglez : yes, I had research experiences. Since my senior year of college until last Dec, I was one of the student researchers for my chemistry professor. Mainly in physical chemistry area. Didn't have any paper with my name on it but did presented at the ACS national conference.. About the DAT, my score was only average. 19TS and 18AA. It was my second attempt. I was so scared to take it the 3rd time because it's my absolute last chance and I am never good with standardized test. I was debating in and out whether or not if I should retake. Talked to a couple schools last May before I applied and they said I shouldn't. But for this upcoming cycle, if I were to apply, I think it would be wise to retake because it's getting more and more competitive each year. It's just very frustrating that I applied twice, landed 3 interviews each cycle, but couldn't even get 1 acceptance letter. I don't know what I did or didn't do during the interview to result that. To be honest, I am just too burned out with DAT, so if with my GPA, the PCAT isn't necessary, I would much rather not to spend more money..

 

[RxStudentatUB]

Pharmacy brochures will make the field sound a lot more glamorous than it actually is because you will very likely be on the bench if you are the lucky few to get a retail job! I had to spend a little extra effort getting a technician job that paid $10 an hour, imagine how crazy it is to get a pharmacy job that pays $50 an hour! Just spend some extra $$$ now to get DAT score up and also practice interview skills with different people rather than borrow too much for pharmacy school which is usually 4 years commitment

 

[PharmtoCS]

Physician assistant is also a great field to go into. Also software engineering and investment banking, where you can easily earn far more than a pharmacist can without having to take out $200k+ loans and spend 4 years in school.

Just wondering, what made you want to diverge from the business route?

 

[PrePharmKid2015]

Pharmacy brochures will make the field sound a lot more glamorous than it actually is because you will very likely be on the bench if you are the lucky few to get a retail job! I had to spend a little extra effort getting a technician job that paid $10 an hour, imagine how crazy it is to get a pharmacy job that pays $50 an hour! Just spend some extra $$$ now to get DAT score up and also practice interview skills with different people rather than borrow too much for pharmacy school which is usually 4 years commitment

By on the bench, you mean can't even get a job after 4 years of Pharm school?

 

[PharmtoCS]

By on the bench, you mean can't even get a job after 4 years of Pharm school?

Looks like it will be that way. There are already far more pharmacists than open positions, yet schools continue to open.

 

[PrePharmKid2015]

Physician assistant is also a great field to go into. Also software engineering and investment banking, where you can easily earn far more than a pharmacist can without having to take out $200k+ loans and spend 4 years in school.

Just wondering, what made you want to diverge from the business route?

As the first person in my family to go to college, I was pretty clueless back then (I guess I am still pretty cluesless now given my situation).. I don't see myself as a business person but I did it anyways as a backup plan because my family owns a small restaurant. While taking business classes, I explored different career paths and the health care field looks pretty attractive and later dentistry. By the time I am a junior, I thought it was very unreasonable to just switch and start all over again. So I just continued with business while taking pre-req for dental school. At that point, I thought everything felt into place because I found something that I want to do and having a business degree actually helps me in a long run since I will eventually want to have my own practice. But being rejected by dental school twice really shaken my confidence. I got very discouraged and I felt like I am starting to turn away from it. I don't know if anyone had my experience, but it was like you were so determined to do one thing, but after failing so many times, you are no longer sure if it is the right thing to do. So that's why I am considering different paths again because the cycle begins all over again.

So, are you a pharm student? If so, why would you do it since you think the market is so saturated with pharm students/graduates. I thought the dental field is also very saturated with the number of schools.

 

[RxStudentatUB]

As the first person in my family to go to college, I was pretty clueless back then (I guess I am still pretty cluesless now given my situation).. I don't see myself as a business person but I did it anyways as a backup plan because my family owns a small restaurant. While taking business classes, I explored different career paths and the health care field looks pretty attractive and later dentistry. By the time I am a junior, I thought it was very unreasonable to just switch and start all over again. So I just continued with business while taking pre-req for dental school. At that point, I thought everything felt into place because I found something that I want to do and having a business degree actually helps me in a long run since I will eventually want to have my own practice. But being rejected by dental school twice really shaken my confidence. I got very discouraged and I felt like I am starting to turn away from it. I don't know if anyone had my experience, but it was like you were so determined to do one thing, but after failing so many times, you are no longer sure if it is the right thing to do. So that's why I am considering different paths again because the cycle begins all over again.

So, are you a pharm student? If so, why would you do it since you think the market is so saturated with pharm students/graduates. I thought the dental field is also very saturated with the number of schools.

~70 dental schools vs. ~140 pharmacy schools. On average, more students in each pharmacy school than dental school. To be honest, your business degree will go much better with dentistry. To open up your own practice in pharmacy requires you moving to middle of nowhere America for a chance to succeed. Otherwise, there is really little chance to succeed against the big boys named CVSlavery and Wal...greenisalltheycareabout. Pharmacists will also burnout quicker than dentists because they are employees. Dentists are usually self-employed. You should self reflect and take the DAT one last time with ample time to prepare. Treat your studies like a full time job for the next 2 months and if you are not happy with the score, then you know things were not meant to be. But I will tell you this, pharmacy school is becoming more and more filled with pre-med drop outs and they will certainly burn out when and if they start working because this was simply a plan B that they didn't take seriously.

 

[rickywang]

There are some opportunities to drug research, development, and testing with a PharmD degree but these jobs are very rare and require a year or two of fellowship, which would be very competitive and hard to get into. 70% of all pharmacist jobs are in retail, followed by 20% in hospital (mostly dispensing). A better path would be to complete a PhD in pharmacology where you don't have to take out $150-225k loans for a PharmD.

Going for PhD PharD to save for tuition is a WRONG WRONG idea!

only do that unless you really like academic research and want to be a faculty.

OK, here is the simple math. Going for PhD PharmD will NOT save you lots of tuition. You need longer time to finish the duel program, always 7 years compared with normal 4 year PharmD. You will only receive stipend and have tuition waived for you PhD years, alwasy 3 years. In another word, you still need to pay tuition and you own expenses for your PharD years.

And think about how much money you classmates already made 3 years after their graduation.

Another reason not going for PhD PharD is, chemistry/biology related research is quite unpredictable. if you lovely drug molecule you spend 2 years to synthesis turns out to be no actuality at all, or the lovely mouse is not the genotype you want, you are screwed for anther 2 or 3 more year........

 

[PrePharmKid2015]

So from what I am gathering, PharmD is not the way to go. Basically it would be extremely difficult to obtain a job after graduation (hence no finanical stability to pay off the debts) and the job wasn't all I think it would be... Can anyone comment on the job at pharmaceutical companies? Do those require post PharmD degree, PhDs, or others?

 

[Thestrugglez]

So from what I am gathering, PharmD is not the way to go. Basically it would be extremely difficult to obtain a job after graduation (hence no finanical stability to pay off the debts) and the job wasn't all I think it would be... Can anyone comment on the job at pharmaceutical companies? Do those require post PharmD degree, PhDs, or others?

I'm gonna sound like a broken record, but PharmD >>>>> PhD. The problem with pharmaceutical companies is that you will need AT LEAST a master's (or a PhD). A PhD that's not from an elite university (such as Stanford) has almost no value nowadays. To even get into one of those lucrative pharmaceutical companies, you'll need a super PI that you are willing to slave for 60+ hour weeks for 5 years in order to crank out those first author publications. That or you'll need inside connections.

Tl;dr: PhD needed for research at pharmaceutical company. DDS >>> PharmD >>>>>>>> PhD

 

[RxStudentatUB]

I have no idea how pharmaceuticals work, but the consensus is that they are even more volatile than retail when it comes to the job market. The bread and butter of pharmacy will always be in dispensing whether or not schools tell you so, if you don't like doing such things then please make sure you do all you can to rock the DAT