Convince Me

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DrIdiot

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Hello everyone,

Current PY3 going into rotations in a couple of months and I am need of someone to convince me to go to residency.

Will graduate in 5/16 with about 130k including principle + interest in loans from pharmacy school- no other debt.

Although I have a passion for oncology pharmacy, I cannot convince myself to do a residency due to the financials:
Typical Residency: 40k/year x 2 for oncology
Typical Retail: ~125k/year x 2 years of residency
Interest on debt over 2 years of residency: 17k
This equals 187k of lost revenue(no taxes involved) to get a job in oncology pharmacy.

I cannot find information on the salaries of typical oncology pharmacists, but knowing most hospital staff pharmacists are < retail pay I am assuming pay isn't any or if at all higher than the retail pay.

Hospital does seem to get more PTO than retail and that is important- but the hospital seems to involve more unpaid OT.

Please present any pro/con arguments you can think of and do your best to sway me one way or another.

I appreciate any input.

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If you like retail, don't do a residency.
 
If you really want to be an oncology pharmacist, then try to do a residency.
 
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I think that I can do both jobs well; however, I do think I would enjoy oncology a little bit more. But, I am unable to convince myself to do it as it just seems more work for less pay. Not sure if there is something I am missing in evaluating the two options.
 
I think that I can do both jobs well; however, I do think I would enjoy oncology a little bit more. But, I am unable to convince myself to do it as it just seems more work for less pay. Not sure if there is something I am missing in evaluating the two options.
For how long do you intend to work as a pharmacist?
 
Can't see myself doing it for more then 30 years and highly likely less than that. I will be 27 at graduation. Good chance on going part time at some point- gf has no intention of ever cutting below FT so I very well may.
 
Can't see myself doing it for more then 30 years and highly likely less than that. I will be 27 at graduation. Good chance on going part time at some point- gf has no intention of ever cutting below FT so I very well may.
Consider the fact that you're weighing the option between doing something you would enjoy more vs. something you'd enjoy less for a period of time longer than you've been alive when both of them will offer six figure salaries.
 
I did not do a residency - but if I wanted my current job and was graduating today I would need one.

1. I work in a hospital
2. I get 8 weeks PDO
3. I may make 10k less than a retail pharmacist in my area
4. I can take a 1 hour lunch and not come back into a mess
5. I can have a conversation and chat with my co-workers or 10 minutes and not come back into a mess
6. I enjoy my job
7. I can sit down during my job
8. I get to take to MD's face to face and the don't laugh at me
9. I get a good pension and 403b contribution
10. I work 8 hours a day - I come in when my shift starts and rarely stay more than 10 minutes late

I will work for an another 20+ years - do I think giving up all of this was worth a higher salary for 2 years? no
 
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Have you worked in a chain retail pharmacy and think that you can withstand the chaos, madness and inhumane working conditions? I have never heard of anyone saying "I wish I had not done residency" but I often hear people saying "I wish I had not gone into retail".

Besides, not everyone that does residency does PGY2. Many people (including myself) don't think a PGY2 is right for them and just get jobs after PGY1, so that's less of an income difference.
 
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I did not do a residency - but if I wanted my current job and was graduating today I would need one.

1. I work in a hospital
2. I get 8 weeks PDO
3. I may make 10k less than a retail pharmacist in my area
4. I can take a 1 hour lunch and not come back into a mess
5. I can have a conversation and chat with my co-workers or 10 minutes and not come back into a mess
6. I enjoy my job
7. I can sit down during my job
8. I get to take to MD's face to face and the don't laugh at me
9. I get a good pension and 403b contribution
10. I work 8 hours a day - I come in when my shift starts and rarely stay more than 10 minutes late

I will work for an another 20+ years - do I think giving up all of this was worth a higher salary for 2 years? no

The real question is do you want to interact with patients and have the day go by quickly or do you want to sit around and stare at a clock waiting to leave.

1. I work in retail
2. My day flies by
3. I get to counsel patients which is why I got my degree.
4. I work 8 hours per day instead of 9. I get to leave earlier but dont get a lunch. Instead I snack on fruits and vegetables with a sandwich each day. I enjoy getting off work earlier.
5. My 401k match is 4% with extra depending on wags overall performance. It ends up being $7000 most years.
6. I make $20k more then the average hospital pharmacist.
7. I stand all day? Not really sure why sitting is a good thing.
8. An md has rarely rejected my recommendation. Every office in town knows me, I have earned respect.
9. I have trained my staff so I am rarely swamped and enjoy my job.
 
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The real question is do you want to interact with patients and have the day go by quickly or do you want to sit around and stare at a clock waiting to leave.

My day as a residency-trained clinical pharmacist goes by very quickly, perhaps too quickly.
 
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I think ultimately, the best answer is where do you see yourself 20 years from now. What are your goals?

No matter what though, do not think about the money. You will not starve....

I picked retail for many reasons. Wagrxm hit the spot so I am going to copy and paste his post to save me time and add to it. I am going to edit it a little bit to fit CVS.

1. I work in retail
2. My day flies by
3. I get to counsel patients which is why I got my degree.
4. I work 8 hours per day instead of 9. I get to leave earlier but dont get a lunch. Instead I snack on fruits and vegetables with a sandwich each day. I enjoy getting off work earlier.
5. My 401k match is 5% which averages 7.5k last year.
6. I make $60k more then the average hospital pharmacist.
7. I stand all day? Not really sure why sitting is a good thing.
8. An md has rarely rejected my recommendation. Every office in town knows me, I have earned respect.
9. I have trained my staff so I am rarely swamped and enjoy my job.
10. I like to do things my own way.
11. I like drama free workplaces.
12. I enjoy developing relationships with my techs, interns, and my patients. (Not the same for hospital because my techs go on to become many things).
 
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Um, I think time flies by depending on if you're busy and/or enjoying your job. Not so much the setting. I've worked in retail and time dragged on when there was down time and not a huge ass line of patients and same for clinical pharmacy duties. When I have a full day taking care of 40 patients, I don't have time to sit and stare at a clock on the wall.
 
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Oh, I interact with tons of patients as well.
 
As far as convincing you to do a residency, you need to decide that for yourself. You're the one that's going to be living with whatever decision you make, so don't let people talk you in whatever direction. Pick for yourself...
 
Having the "day fly by" may or may not be a good thing. I came from hospital, currently work in retail, and am going back to hospital next month. My days fly by, but after 10-12+ hours running around on my feet, I'm exhausted and have little energy to do anything but crash on the couch when I get home, only to repeat the next day. In my previous job, I actually went to the gym, cooked supper, went out with friends, etc after work, but now I don't have the energy. My retail job isn't all bad; I actually do enjoy it for the most part.
 
Hello everyone,

Current PY3 going into rotations in a couple of months and I am need of someone to convince me to go to residency.

Will graduate in 5/16 with about 130k including principle + interest in loans from pharmacy school- no other debt.

Although I have a passion for oncology pharmacy, I cannot convince myself to do a residency due to the financials:
Typical Residency: 40k/year x 2 for oncology
Typical Retail: ~125k/year x 2 years of residency
Interest on debt over 2 years of residency: 17k
This equals 187k of lost revenue(no taxes involved) to get a job in oncology pharmacy.

I cannot find information on the salaries of typical oncology pharmacists, but knowing most hospital staff pharmacists are < retail pay I am assuming pay isn't any or if at all higher than the retail pay.

Hospital does seem to get more PTO than retail and that is important- but the hospital seems to involve more unpaid OT.

Please present any pro/con arguments you can think of and do your best to sway me one way or another.

I appreciate any input.

Seems like you've already made up your mind.
 
The real question is do you want to interact with patients and have the day go by quickly or do you want to sit around and stare at a clock waiting to leave.

1. I work in retail
2. My day flies by
3. I get to counsel patients which is why I got my degree.
4. I work 8 hours per day instead of 9. I get to leave earlier but dont get a lunch. Instead I snack on fruits and vegetables with a sandwich each day. I enjoy getting off work earlier.
5. My 401k match is 4% with extra depending on wags overall performance. It ends up being $7000 most years.
6. I make $20k more then the average hospital pharmacist.
7. I stand all day? Not really sure why sitting is a good thing.
8. An md has rarely rejected my recommendation. Every office in town knows me, I have earned respect.
9. I have trained my staff so I am rarely swamped and enjoy my job.
and I am most grateful there are people that you that like and enjoy retail - the more people that go to retail, the fewer people I am competing with for a job and thus my employer doesn't need to pay as much. I think you are in the minority and I am glad you enjoy your work - most of the big chain people tend to think otherwise
 
and I am most grateful there are people that you that like and enjoy retail - the more people that go to retail, the fewer people I am competing with for a job and thus my employer doesn't need to pay as much. I think you are in the minority and I am glad you enjoy your work - most of the big chain people tend to think otherwise

What's the good part about this?
 
What's the good part about this?
bad typing on my phone - I met the more people that like retail means less people willing to take less money to come to a hospital thus reducing the depression of my salary
 
I think you should do residency, especially in oncology. I also think it's better to do it right after you graduate. Since the job market is so saturated in many areas, it will be your definite advantage to have residency especially in specialty areas such as oncology.
I hope to do residency but it's really hard to take that huge pay cut after working as a pharmacist for 10 years, but if you do it right after school you won't feel that.
 
Do what will make you happy. Dont worry about the student loans in reference to residency vs no residency

Download the Dave Ramsey podcast and start listening.

I work in the hospital (paid less) and I work part time (Although pickup extra shifts when I can, nowhere near 80hrs). I married a guy who enjoys what he does and together we make a very comfortable salary. Our goal is to pay off all of our debt including my $142k including intrest student loans in 4-5 more years. Kids and daycare expenses make this goal 4-5 as opposed to 2-3 btw.

As long as you dont give all of your money away to lexus, cheesecake factory and the mall you can live hella well on hospital pharmacist salary while paying off your debt in <10 years.
 
Do what will make you happy. Dont worry about the student loans in reference to residency vs no residency

Download the Dave Ramsey podcast and start listening.

I work in the hospital (paid less) and I work part time (Although pickup extra shifts when I can, nowhere near 80hrs). I married a guy who enjoys what he does and together we make a very comfortable salary. Our goal is to pay off all of our debt including my $142k including intrest student loans in 4-5 more years. Kids and daycare expenses make this goal 4-5 as opposed to 2-3 btw.

As long as you dont give all of your money away to lexus, cheesecake factory and the mall you can live hella well on hospital pharmacist salary while paying off your debt in <10 years.
But Cheesecake Factory is the bomb!
 
1 point to consider....you do your residency, and you still can't get a job as an oncology pharmacist. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, but oncology pharmacists are few and far between. Would you be satisfied going into regular hospital or retail, after completing your oncology residency?
 
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1 point to consider....you do your residency, and you still can't get a job as an oncology pharmacist. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, but oncology pharmacists are few and far between. Would you be satisfied going into regular hospital or retail, after completing your oncology residency?

I don't know about that....It seems like all the onc people I know get offers. However, your offer could be anywhere in the country, so expect to relocate.
 
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It is important to consider the ROI but make sure you think you will be happy. If you like retail go for it but brear it is tough to ever get out....
 
I don't know about that....It seems like all the onc people I know get offers. However, your offer could be anywhere in the country, so expect to relocate.
this +1 - that is the one area in our hospital that we struggle to find specialists in.
 
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this +1 - that is the one area in our hospital that we struggle to find specialists in.
Yup. I see tons of job listings for this area of pharmacy but like with any specialized pharmacist, you run the risk of not finding the job you want or finding the job you want outside of your desired location. I'm specializing in a niche area of pharmacy, but my preceptor in the same speciality during my student rotations told me that if I follow through with this speciality prepare for the possibility of working outside this area before finding the position you want. Luckily, there's listings out there and I'm not tied down to any one location but I feel I could practice in another area until I find the job I want.
 
Having the "day fly by" may or may not be a good thing. I came from hospital, currently work in retail, and am going back to hospital next month. My days fly by, but after 10-12+ hours running around on my feet, I'm exhausted and have little energy to do anything but crash on the couch when I get home, only to repeat the next day. In my previous job, I actually went to the gym, cooked supper, went out with friends, etc after work, but now I don't have the energy. My retail job isn't all bad; I actually do enjoy it for the most part.

I guess I can also add "Not worrying about Insomnia" to the list also... :laugh:
 
I think that I can do both jobs well; however, I do think I would enjoy oncology a little bit more. But, I am unable to convince myself to do it as it just seems more work for less pay. Not sure if there is something I am missing in evaluating the two options.

Money does not buy you happiness. In 10 years, it won't matter that you were paid a ****ty salary for 2 years of residency. Make this decision based on what job you will enjoy doing more. Also, remember that you can always transition from a clinical job to a retail one but rarely the other way around.

Having the "day fly by" may or may not be a good thing. I came from hospital, currently work in retail, and am going back to hospital next month. My days fly by, but after 10-12+ hours running around on my feet, I'm exhausted and have little energy to do anything but crash on the couch when I get home, only to repeat the next day. In my previous job, I actually went to the gym, cooked supper, went out with friends, etc after work, but now I don't have the energy. My retail job isn't all bad; I actually do enjoy it for the most part.

10-12 hour days means you get 3-4 days a week off. 8 hour shifts means you only get 2 days a week off. Obviously it's a matter of preference but the amount of free time is roughly the same.
 
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