Couples matching into same specialty

[DAdams]

Hi I had a quick question about couples matching into the same specialty in which one applicant is stronger than the other. Looking over some older posts aProgDirector mentioned that he might move the top applicant down on the rank list. My question is that in programs in larger cities in which there are several other programs, are program directors inclined to do this?

My concern is that my spouse and I are applying to cities with multiple programs and we are much more likely to wind up in different programs in similar geographic regions. I guess my main question is, how do I let program directors know that we are in fact not a package deal because we are expecting to be in different programs. Of course there's nothing wrong with being in the same program, but I just don't want the top applicant to be dragged down because of any perceived "package deal".

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[Omiganlode]

Hi I had a quick question about couples matching into the same specialty in which one applicant is stronger than the other. Looking over some older posts aProgDirector mentioned that he might move the top applicant down on the rank list. My question is that in programs in larger cities in which there are several other programs, are program directors inclined to do this?

My concern is that my spouse and I are applying to cities with multiple programs and we are much more likely to wind up in different programs in similar geographic regions. I guess my main question is, how do I let program directors know that we are in fact not a package deal because we are expecting to be in different programs. Of course there's nothing wrong with being in the same program, but I just don't want the top applicant to be dragged down because of any perceived "package deal".

On the NRMP website there's a whole section on couples matching and it explains how it works. What matters is how you make your ROL... You should check it out it explains it very well!

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I can't remember which post I said that, but it's more complicated.

When we have a couple both applying into the same program, we have the choice of ranking each "where they belong", moving the top person down, moving the bottom person up, or "splitting the difference" and moving both to the middle. All can be used, and it will depend on the circumstances.

First, it depends on where you are applying. If you're applying to a place that only has a single program, then they will likely figure that you're a "package deal" -- it's going to be both or neither. Hence, it makes sense to move the couple together. In a city with lots of programs, it matters much less since it would be quite possible and acceptable to match into two different programs. In that case, I doubt anyone would move someone down the rank list.

So, I think you don't have anything to worry about.

 

[Gaclavve]

I can't remember which post I said that, but it's more complicated.

When we have a couple both applying into the same program, we have the choice of ranking each "where they belong", moving the top person down, moving the bottom person up, or "splitting the difference" and moving both to the middle. All can be used, and it will depend on the circumstances.

First, it depends on where you are applying. If you're applying to a place that only has a single program, then they will likely figure that you're a "package deal" -- it's going to be both or neither. Hence, it makes sense to move the couple together. In a city with lots of programs, it matters much less since it would be quite possible and acceptable to match into two different programs. In that case, I doubt anyone would move someone down the rank list.

So, I think you don't have anything to worry about.

I know this post is old, but it applies to my current situation. Applying to same specialty with my SO and we are debating whether to couples match VS individual match (and applying to same geographic regions - aka ROLLING THE DICE). We were told that it would be very risky to couples match because programs are "ranking us together on their list." Was told that most programs see couples as a liability and were inclined to put both towards the bottom of their list. I don't understand why programs wouldn't do as was mentioned above, that is, if its a big city with 5 programs in it, assume one of us may go to another program and rank us as individuals!

Should I be getting more opinions on this? Any help/advice would be great....this is the most anxiety-provoking experience of my life. Thanks.

We are both average - sl above average in every way, and are applying to a moderately competitive specialty. PM if willing.

 

[Raryn]

I know this post is old, but it applies to my current situation. Applying to same specialty with my SO and we are debating whether to couples match VS individual match (and applying to same geographic regions - aka ROLLING THE DICE). We were told that it would be very risky to couples match because programs are "ranking us together on their list." Was told that most programs see couples as a liability and were inclined to put both towards the bottom of their list. I don't understand why programs wouldn't do as was mentioned above, that is, if its a big city with 5 programs in it, assume one of us may go to another program and rank us as individuals!

Should I be getting more opinions on this? Any help/advice would be great....this is the most anxiety-provoking experience of my life. Thanks.

We are both average - sl above average in every way, and are applying to a moderately competitive specialty. PM if willing.

There's two questions here that people don't usually realize are split. The reason is simple: the actual couples match is completely and utterly separate from telling programs you are couples matching. If you're worried that one of you may drag the other down, you can easily leave the fact you're couples matching off your ERAS, whether or not you're doing it. Conversely though, one of you may bring the other one up higher. Whether you mark on ERAS that you're couples matching is an open question. You can neglect to mention it and just couples match in the NRMP system and the programs have no way of knowing.

That said, and I cannot emphasize this more, whether or not you tell the programs you are couples matching, if you make your list appropriately couples matching will lead to absolutely no decrease in your odds of matching. To explain:

If you interview at 10 programs and your SO interviews at 11, there are 131 total combinations that you can rank. Your 10 programs+going unmatched * her 11 programs+going unmatched minus the possibility you both go unmatched. If you rank all 131 combinations, your individual chances of matching are exactly the same as if you had applied separately and "rolled the dice." The reason that people say couples matching lowers your odds of matching are because many/most people doing it do not systematically go through and rank every combination. When you put together your rank list, you have to make the hard decision of what you would prefer: one of you going unmatched or you being further apart. If you prefer the latter to the possibility that one of you will be unemployed, then rank every single combination and your odds are NOT lower, and in fact CANNOT be lower. That also forces you to go through the whole list of combinations and put the compromises in order.

 

[Gaclavve]

WOW. Thanks for this reply, my mind is kind of blown right now....I had no idea you could not put "couples match" on ERAS and yet still do the NRMP couples match. Let me make sure I am understanding this...

As I said, we are very similar applicants (i.e. i don't think either of us will significantly pull the other person up or down). Therefore since there is no benefit to us disclosing ourselves as a couple, we should opt NOT to check that box on ERAS (because our main fear is that programs will see we are together, NOT want a couple in their program, and either 1) Not interview us or 2) Rank us both together (and also very low, most likely). So then during our interviews, we just don't mention we are planning to couples match at all? This seems....like we are lying. Or maybe I am just being paranoid.

Am I understanding this right? If so, Raryn, you are my favorite person ever.

 

[Raryn]

WOW. Thanks for this reply, my mind is kind of blown right now....I had no idea you could not put "couples match" on ERAS and yet still do the NRMP couples match. Let me make sure I am understanding this...

As I said, we are very similar applicants (i.e. i don't think either of us will significantly pull the other person up or down). Therefore since there is no benefit to us disclosing ourselves as a couple, we should opt NOT to check that box on ERAS (because our main fear is that programs will see we are together, NOT want a couple in their program, and either 1) Not interview us or 2) Rank us both together (and also very low, most likely). So then during our interviews, we just don't mention we are planning to couples match at all? This seems....like we are lying. Or maybe I am just being paranoid.

Am I understanding this right? If so, Raryn, you are my favorite person ever.

You are correct. The NRMP and ERAS have nothing to do with each other. You can simply opt not to check that box and then not mention it. It's no more lying than all the people who decline to mention their marriage/plans for children/whatever. Unless they ask, which they almost certainly won't.

That said, I don't honestly think checking the box that says couples match will be a disadvantage, and may be more likely to get the second person an interview after the first person got one. But that's just my opinion, and there's no data to support it either way. If you're worried about it, you aren't obligated to disclose anything.

 

[rokshana]

i think southernIM hit the heart of the issues of couples matching in the SAME specialty…in a program, particularly a small program there can be drama, but even if there isn't drama, you generally will want to be considered as a unit for days off or vacation….and if there is a family emergency, then there are 2 residents that will need to be accommodated instead of one…so say for a program that only has 6 or 8 people…2 is a good portion of the program…

but for couples applying for DIFFERENT specialties, it can be helpful especially if one member is a very competitive applicant because they may help to get the other person an interview.

but even if you don't couples match are you gonna hide the fact when you interview? not mention it and then show up on the 1st day of intern year and say ta-da!!! we are a couple?!

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

i think southernIM hit the heart of the issues of couples matching in the SAME specialty…in a program, particularly a small program there can be drama, but even if there isn't drama, you generally will want to be considered as a unit for days off or vacation….and if there is a family emergency, then there are 2 residents that will need to be accommodated instead of one…so say for a program that only has 6 or 8 people…2 is a good portion of the program…

but for couples applying for DIFFERENT specialties, it can be helpful especially if one member is a very competitive applicant because they may help to get the other person an interview.

but even if you don't couples match are you gonna hide the fact when you interview? not mention it and then show up on the 1st day of intern year and say ta-da!!! we are a couple?!

Good points. We are small enough that it would be really hard to coordinate vacations for two senior residents (especially if they were on a busy service like trauma). We could probably get away with it intern year because of prelim residents, ortho/ent/uro, etc, giving us extra bodies.

Maternity leave would also include paternity leave for the other spouse if there were any kids during residency so there's double trouble. Etc, etc.

Bottom line is when we have a hundred other really awesome candidates, and two candidates who are equally awesome but likely to cause a logistics headache for the PD for the next 5-7 years...which do you think the PD will choose? PDs like residents who don't cause them extra work.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

If the OP doesn't disclose that they are a couple and then match together at a small program, that can cause problems also. Presumably you will want your vacations together. If you don't ask before matching there is no guarantee of that happening. So there's pluses and minuses to both options

 

[Gaclavve]

Thanks for the advice everyone, all really good points that we have not thought of as of yet (i.e. coordinating vacay time). Our plan (hope) is to end up at two different programs in the same big city. We'll at least fill the top spots of our ROL with combinations that would NOT put us in the same program....but mostly we want to match so if we end up together at the same program, such is life.

 

[Bravura8815]

I have a similar situation where my SO and I are applying to go into the same specialty, but we are only participating in NMS (not NRMP). Anyone know of any couple who matched into the same residency program? Most likely, we will be in different programs due to director preference and vacation/time off issue. However, I am interested in hearing some success stories with couples in the same residency program. And if so, was the program size large? I am only seeing 8-10 as the max range for d.o. programs.

 

[tennisstar89]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I cannot find this topic discussed elsewhere. My bf and I are couples matching the same specialty (we put this in ERAS), and I've gotten a few interviews he hasn't in areas with only 1-2 programs. We are trying to decide if he should contact these programs and let them know how interested he is in interviewing there. I'm wondering if 1) these places saw on ERAS that we are couples matching and chose to only give me a spot or 2) didn't even notice that we are couples matching. I'm worried about being too pushy and turning programs off. We are both great applicants, I'm slightly better by numbers. Thanks for any advice you have out there!