Criminal record and Ph.D programs

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Joepa69

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Hi all,
I have an important question to ask the forum. I got a DUI 5 years ago and recently got another one (my second). Will this affect my chances of getting accepted into a Ph.D. clinical psychology program? Will it affect my career in anyway down the road? Is there a difference in whether it will affect me if I choose private practice or an academic position? I know a full psychology professor who has multiple DUI's and is doing fine. Any help would be greatly appreciated...Thanks!

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I don't think that it is necessarily a death knell but I think you have to put it on your application...the last thing you want is for a program to find out later, plus that is a matter of ethics. You will probably have to explain what happened and why it won't happen again as well as what you have learned from it. As long as it is genuine, here is what I would do in your shoes (keep in mind I just applied a year ago though so I am no expert on this). I would probably first get into therapy and try to work through any issues which may be leading to DUIs. This shows that you recognize that there is a problem and are working to resolve them. I also would consider volunteer work, perhaps doing speaking about why you shouldn't drink and drive to high school students or something of that nature. Then you can say "yes, I made a mistake, but it was a wakeup call for me. It helped me realize that there were some things I needed to sort out in my life and I made steps to improve myself because of that. Additionally, it made me realize that I should share my story and try to help prevent people from making the same choices I have made. I acknowledge it was not a good choice, but I feel that I learned from it and I am trying to use that lesson to make a difference."

Anyway, you didn't come for that advice, and again, I would only do that if you can do it because you genuinely want to do that. That being said, if I were a professor looking at your application and I saw that you did all that in response it would take a lot of the sting out of it, though I still probably would be concerned.

As I tell all my friends, life isn't as much about your successes as it is how you deal with adversity. I wish you all the best.
 
Thank you for your response! Only about 1/4 of all applications ask about your arrest/criminal record. I don't think I should bring it up if I am not asked about it. Do you think it would affect my career in 5+ years when I am looking for a job when I have my Ph.D.?
 
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If you haven't had another one and have done some prevention work I don't think it would affect you much, but then again I am basically at your stage in life so I can't say for sure.
 
If an application asks if you have a criminal history, usually they specifically ask if you have been convicted of a felony. I am not sure if a DUI is a felony, and it may differ from state to state. Your criminal history will probably not affect an admissions decisions; however, it may play a role in what kinds of funding opportunities you are given. If you are not asked, I would not mention that you were ever arrested. If you are asked, be prepared to show positive things that you have done to amend for your behavior. For example, if you are on probation, make sure you complete that and all court stipulations successfully. Then go and volunteer, get good grades and high GRE scores.

As for a career in about 5 years, I wouldn't worry too much. If you complete all of your court stipulations, most states allow you the opportunity to have your record expunged at which point it is sealed and you never have to mention it again. Most expungements are only allowed about 5 years after you complete probation or court stipulations, so as long as you stop getting DUI's you should be all set.

You need to stop getting DUI's and be a more responsible drinker before you consider clinical psych. If you finish grad school and become licensed, you will lose your license. THAT could ruin your career. My advice is to look up the laws in your state, if they don't ask, don't tell, rehabilitate yourself, and STOP DRIVING DRUNK!
 
The fact that you recently got another one makes this more of a problem (in my opinion).

I know that sometimes school admissions people can get access to facebook/myspace profiles that are set to "private", so I think it's even more likely that they do criminal background checks at least some of the time. I can't say for sure because I just applied this past cycle as well, but it would make sense to me. I do know that a LOT of jobs in the Psychology field require criminal background checks (at least in Canada, I would suspect it's the same in the US) so your DUIs may come back to haunt you. I would really work on making sure you don't get a third, and I would even do volunteer work for a substance abuse program or something so that you have a way to say that you took a bad experience and made something good come out of it.

Best of luck, I hope that it works out for you and of course I hope that you don't get any more DUIs!
 
Hi all,
I have an important question to ask the forum. I got a DUI 5 years ago and recently got another one (my second). Will this affect my chances of getting accepted into a Ph.D. clinical psychology program? Will it affect my career in anyway down the road? Is there a difference in whether it will affect me if I choose private practice or an academic position? I know a full psychology professor who has multiple DUI's and is doing fine. Any help would be greatly appreciated...Thanks!

"Will it affect my career in anyway down the road?"

Sorry for the perverse pun, but you may not make it "down the road" unless you change your behavior. Worse yet, you may very well find yourself with a much more serious crime or circumstance than DUI if you, God forbid, wind up killing someone (even yourself!) as a result of your inebriation. Please listen to Irish and myself when we beg of you to get some professional help for the matter. Sorry for preaching but the news stories I hear on a daily basis of innocent people being killed and lives being wrecked, all due to drinking while driving, are horrendous!

In any case, if an application asks if you ever had a felony or misdemeanor, I definitely would not lie since if someone actually checks then you could get kicked out. I remember a legal case in the news a number of years back of a girl who was accepted to Harvard (I think it was Harvard) but did not tell the truth about a murder conviction (it may have been very complicated involving a sealed record) on an application question on legal issues. I remember the girl losing her place not for the conviction but for lying about it. (Sorry, I do not have the case citing for you).

School must wind up accepting people with misdemeanors all the time. As part of my job, I frequently interview people with felony convictions who want state help to get their lives back in order. Many of them plan and do go back to school after serving years in prison.

I realize I may have avoided some of the point of your question. I started looking on the web for rules governing practicing psychologist. I see some similarities accross states in the laws of licensing psychologist with criminal records. Here is an example from Nebraska:

http://www.hhs.state.ne.us/crl/mhcs/psych/psychlicense.htm

As you will see, one must report these issues to the state government agency which grants the license and in some case (mental health or substance abuse) need to offer proof of treatment. However, it seem that one can still eventually practice with a problematic legal background. Universities, state and private, must have their own rules regarding this.

Oh, here is a professional California psychologist asnwering your exact question:

http://www.guidetopsychology.com/be_psy.htm#crime

He concludes: "
So, at least in California, conviction of a crime does not necessarily disqualify someone from licensure as a psychologist. It all depends on the circumstances. And only the Board of Psychology can determine how it will act in any particular case. "

Well, I think there is more information out there but I have to go. Good luck and I hope you have success dealing with your DUI problem.​

 
As a faculty member in a different profession it would definitely keep you from getting past me in the admissions process.

It shows a complete lack of personal judgement, espcially since you are putting others at significant risk.

I truly hope you are getting help, though if it were up to me you would be in jail for quite awhile.


Sorry for the harshness, but I think that it is a terrible act. If you were just hurting yourself I would have less of a problem with it. Driving around with an infant son, people like yourself make me furious!
 
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Sorry for the harshness, but I think that it is a terrible act. If you were just hurting yourself I would have less of a problem with it. Driving around with an infant son, people like yourself make me furious!

I agree... I'm willing to admit that perhaps people can make this mistake ONCE by not knowing how intoxicated they are, but multiple times leads me to think there's a problem. If this were happening to me I would get help before trying to help OTHER people, and I hope the OP does. While people are definitely capable of learning from their mistakes and I certainly wouldn't begrudge him admission if he goes into treatment of some kind, I think an admission panel would be well within their right to say "thanks but no thanks" until the lessons are learned and some volunteer work and treatment takes place.
 
I'm going to have to disagree with hunter--disclose it to the programs. It's not a pot possession charge from 7 years ago; it's two DUIs. In fact, I recommend that you e-mail both the director of admissions and your POI at every school and disclose it to them and ask if they'd consider taking you with that in mind.

If it were to come out after you were admitted to the program, I would expect that your reputation would be garbage. Especially if someone on faculty had a relative who was killed by a drunk driver (and many, many people do). I would expect that your prof would be quite upset that you didn't disclose it. Things like that have a way of coming out.

I would expect that many programs would tell you not to apply. My goal is to be a prof. While I might consider someone with a DUI from several years prior who went through treatment afterwards, I would never admit someone with two (especially with one being "recent"). Due to circumstances entirely of your own making, many of the potential schools will probably not consider your application.
 
I agree, I would disclose it regardless of if it is asked or not. If you don't, it may seem like you are trying to sneak around it. As has been mentioned by others, and hinted at by myself, if you are serious about this you have to be honest with yourself, upfront, and figure out why this has happened again. Once you do that you can start making steps towards your goals, such as therapy, but without doing that I don't think you should be a graduate student or a therapist. That is just my view, but I agree, I would disclose and I would get help for it because you certainly don't want it to happen again!
 
"I recommend that you e-mail both the director of admissions and your POI at every school and disclose it to them and ask if they'd consider taking you with that in mind."

This has to be some of the worst advice I have every heard. This isn't something that should ruin my life/career. It is not like I murdered someone or robbed a bank which would look bad on my character (violent and thieving). How is me getting a DUI going to affect my work in Graduate school or my research potential? I work in a psychology department now and everyone who I have talked to about this told me to only disclose this information if asked. Do you really think it will matter if I start a program somewhere and they find out about a DUI? Do you think they will kick me out of school? For one, that is probably illegal. Just my thoughts...
 
This has to be some of the worst advice I have every heard. This isn't something that should ruin my life/career. It is not like I murdered someone or robbed a bank which would look bad on my character (violent and thieving). How is me getting a DUI going to affect my work in Graduate school or my research potential? I work in a psychology department now and everyone who I have talked to about this told me to only disclose this information if asked. Do you really think it will matter if I start a program somewhere and they find out about a DUI? Do you think they will kick me out of school? For one, that is probably illegal. Just my thoughts...

With all do respect, you may not think it should ruin YOUR life/career, but you very well COULD have ruined (or ended) someone else's. When you are drunk and you get behind the wheel, you are choosing to gamble with not just your life and reputation, but the lives of everyone on the same road. Psychology is a field that requires ethics and with that comes common sense. Arguably, two DUIs do not show evidence of that. Just because you got lucky and didn't kill someone doesn't mean that the crime itself was any less serious. I would disclose, because I am fairly sure that schools CAN kick you out if they find out about a criminal past that you didn't inform them of. It's the responsible thing to do.
 
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You also kind of ignored everyone's recommendation for treatment and volunteer work. I don't know whether you're writing it off as a bad idea, or just didn't notice...
 
I found some more stuff that is on-topic with your original post.

I looked into the policies at the school I'll be attending for my PhD. While they don't require a criminal record check for admissions, they DO require it for any internships, summer placements, hospital rotations, etc. These are required for graduation and therefore a criminal record check will happen before completion of the degree.

I'll keep looking at other schools, but I think because so much of the clinical psych curriculum is working with people, a criminal record check is probably pretty common.
 
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I can't add much to what's already been posted, but I wanted to inform you that you technically can be kicked out of a program for a DUI. If you can be kicked out of one, I would presume that you may also be denied admission into one. This, of course, may vary by program and perhaps even by state.

Purely anecdotal, but one of the universities I interviewed at had just went through the process of booting a student due to a DUI. And, as Google search results provide similar cases, I suspect it's not as uncommon as some may think, regardless of how "fair" they think it might be.
 
This has to be some of the worst advice I have every heard. This isn't something that should ruin my life/career. It is not like I murdered someone or robbed a bank which would look bad on my character (violent and thieving). How is me getting a DUI going to affect my work in Graduate school or my research potential? I work in a psychology department now and everyone who I have talked to about this told me to only disclose this information if asked. Do you really think it will matter if I start a program somewhere and they find out about a DUI? Do you think they will kick me out of school? For one, that is probably illegal. Just my thoughts...

If they asked about any criminal history and you did not report it, just as with any other part of your application that you might lie or omit certain bits of information on, they have every right to boot you out.
 
This has to be some of the worst advice I have every heard. This isn't something that should ruin my life/career. It is not like I murdered someone or robbed a bank which would look bad on my character (violent and thieving). How is me getting a DUI going to affect my work in Graduate school or my research potential? I work in a psychology department now and everyone who I have talked to about this told me to only disclose this information if asked. Do you really think it will matter if I start a program somewhere and they find out about a DUI? Do you think they will kick me out of school? For one, that is probably illegal. Just my thoughts...

It does affect your work. It calls into question your ethical thinking. If someone is doing something that dangerous, what's to stop him or her from making a few false data points? It's far less of a transgression.

From your first post and this one, it seems like you see the DUIs as more of a bothersome inconvenience than any sort of slap in the face to change your behaviour (I'm only gleaning that from two forum posts, though, so I could easily be wrong). The points made about treatment and volunteer work were excellent.
 
First off, thank you for everyone's input! Before you jump to any conclusions of how I might have killed someone, let me explain the situation and clear some things up. I was recently at a major league baseball game and after the home team won, people were lighting off fireworks. My friend gave me his keys to move his car a little ways away in the parking lot to clear room for people we didn't even know to light off fireworks. As I was backing the car out of the space, a cop approached me (he came because of the fireworks) and long story short...I got a DUI. So, I was not driving around putting people's lives in jeopardy.

Paramour, I totally agree with you about if you lied on your application and the school found out, you could definitely get kicked out of school. Also, you could probably get kicked out once you were in school and got a DUI. But, if the DUI occured before you got to school (it didn't affect school in any way)and they didn't ask on the application, I am pretty sure you would be OK.

About the internship, Raynee is most likely correct about them asking about a criminal record. However, I am thinking that 5 years from now, it would be so far in my past that I could disclose it and it wouldn't affect me that much. Especially if I had a great looking vita.

As for treatment...yes, I am in treatment now and haven't had a sip of alcohol for three months since it happened
 
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]FYI-I found this to be the case in California....
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif].
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]The Business and Professions Code (Section 480.a.1) says that a board may deny a license regulated by the code (and that includes the psychologist license) on the grounds that the applicant has been convicted of a crime..
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]However, the code also states the following (480.b):.
empty.gif
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]Notwithstanding any other provision of this code, no person shall be denied a license solely on the basis that he has been convicted of a felony if he has obtained a certificate of rehabilitation under Section 4852.01 and following of the Penal Code or that he has been convicted of a misdemeanor if he has met all applicable requirements of the criteria of rehabilitation developed by the board to evaluate the rehabilitation of a person when considering the denial of a license under subdivision (a) of Section 482..​
empty.gif
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]So, at least in California, conviction of a crime does not necessarily disqualify someone from licensure as a psychologist. It all depends on the circumstances. And only the Board of Psychology can determine how it will act in any particular case..​
 
Dude, don't disclose it. Many of the people on here giving you advice have not even started their phd programs yet. I am a 5th year clinical phd student at a free-standing university. While I don't have any charges against me, two of my classmates have DUIs + one has a cocaine possession charge. In addition, one classmate has a domestic battery assault. However, on this charge, charges were dropped. Additionally, one intern at my externship site has a DUI and has a breath analyzer on her car. ALl these people had these charges on their record a year or two before they applied to grad school!!! They are now doing internships at Ivy League schools. PhD programs will NOT, I repeat, NOT check your background for misdemeanors (until you get a 3rd DUI conviction, you don't have a felony). In addition, 99.9999% of internship sites will NOT check your background. If they say they will on their application, don't believe it. As a psychologist, you will not be handling drugs. Finally, if you are really uptight about your charges, you can legally get one of them expunged from your record via a lawyer.

One thing you'll learn in grad school, is that psychologists are nuts. You are going to run into lots of people who will tell stupid, stupid advice like SOME of the advice you got on this thread. WHen I read the advice that told you to email your POIs, I actually got angry at the writer's stupidity. Also, I seriously doubt the veracity of Raynee's advice --- if I recall correctly, she has not even started grad school yet. So, as a recapitulation, don't worry about your chargees and don't tell anyone, even friends in yor program. Remember: Loose lips sink ships. However, you may need to get some help.
 
"As I was backing the car out of the space, a cop approached me (he came because of the fireworks) and long story short...I got a DUI. So, I was not driving around putting people's lives in jeopardy."

I just wanted to point out that while you weren't out on a highway, you were still driving a vehicle and putting people's lives in jeopardy, especially since it sounds like it was a busy venue with a parking lot where lots of people (those trying to get out/not watching fireworks) are walking all over to get to their cars. Simply because you weren't on a street/highway doesn't mean that others weren't in danger. Parking lots (especially crowded ones where lots of people are walking around, lots of people are backing their vehicles up/trying to get out) are dangerous and even moreso when under the influence.
 
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Dude, don't disclose it. Many of the people on here giving you advice have not even started their phd programs yet. I am a 5th year clinical phd student at a free-standing university. While I don't have any charges against me, two of my classmates have DUIs + one has a cocaine possession charge. In addition, one classmate has a domestic battery assault. However, on this charge, charges were dropped. Additionally, one intern at my externship site has a DUI and has a breath analyzer on her car. ALl these people had these charges on their record a year or two before they applied to grad school!!! They are now doing internships at Ivy League schools. PhD programs will NOT, I repeat, NOT check your background for misdemeanors (until you get a 3rd DUI conviction, you don't have a felony). In addition, 99.9999% of internship sites will NOT check your background. If they say they will on their application, don't believe it. As a psychologist, you will not be handling drugs. Finally, if you are really uptight about your charges, you can legally get one of them expunged from your record via a lawyer.

One thing you'll learn in grad school, is that psychologists are nuts. You are going to run into lots of people who will tell stupid, stupid advice like SOME of the advice you got on this thread. WHen I read the advice that told you to email your POIs, I actually got angry at the writer's stupidity. Also, I seriously doubt the veracity of Raynee's advice --- if I recall correctly, she has not even started grad school yet. So, as a recapitulation, don't worry about your chargees and don't tell anyone, even friends in yor program. Remember: Loose lips sink ships. However, you may need to get some help.

It depends a bit on the person. I certainly understand where you are coming from, and thinking about it I probably wouldn't mention it unless I was asked (which actually I think I was asked at pretty much every school) but I can understand the value of just putting it out there. Wouldn't it be better to have a school know so you can go in with everything on the table and not hiding anything than having to worry about the secret you hold, wondering what may happen if someone found out. It is possible that nothing would happen, but then others on this forum have said that they know of people getting booted for that. For me I would be too anxious to keep that on my chest, I think it would drive me nuts. Does disclosing help you get into grad school, certainly not, but it is possible that it may help you stay there and it certainly would make you more comfortable there, or at least it would do that for me.

So once again, I think I would probably not tell anyone unless asked, but it is hard to say because I am not in your shoes. I agree with others though, counseling is your friend...because if it happens again in a grad program, it may be game over (plus you could kill someone).
 
Dude, don't disclose it. Many of the people on here giving you advice have not even started their phd programs yet. I am a 5th year clinical phd student at a free-standing university. While I don't have any charges against me, two of my classmates have DUIs + one has a cocaine possession charge. In addition, one classmate has a domestic battery assault. However, on this charge, charges were dropped. Additionally, one intern at my externship site has a DUI and has a breath analyzer on her car. ALl these people had these charges on their record a year or two before they applied to grad school!!! They are now doing internships at Ivy League schools. PhD programs will NOT, I repeat, NOT check your background for misdemeanors (until you get a 3rd DUI conviction, you don't have a felony). In addition, 99.9999% of internship sites will NOT check your background. If they say they will on their application, don't believe it. As a psychologist, you will not be handling drugs. Finally, if you are really uptight about your charges, you can legally get one of them expunged from your record via a lawyer.

One thing you'll learn in grad school, is that psychologists are nuts. You are going to run into lots of people who will tell stupid, stupid advice like SOME of the advice you got on this thread. WHen I read the advice that told you to email your POIs, I actually got angry at the writer's stupidity. Also, I seriously doubt the veracity of Raynee's advice --- if I recall correctly, she has not even started grad school yet. So, as a recapitulation, don't worry about your chargees and don't tell anyone, even friends in yor program. Remember: Loose lips sink ships. However, you may need to get some help.

Uh, well THAT was sure hostile.

I clearly said in my post that I checked into the policies of the school I will be attending for my PhD. I have access to the requirements for practical placements in the program since I'll be going there in two months.

I really wonder why you're telling this person to believe that even if internship sites say they will do background checks, they won't. That's dangerous advice for him and you're playing with fire (and directing him to).

Isn't this field supposed to be about full disclosure, honesty, ethics, and learning? I personally don't feel like your advice to him showed that at all.
 
Not touching the main topic.
FYI though - I know plenty of psychologists that handle drugs. Its a definite possibility in this field.

Heck, the psychologist upstairs at my last job worked with medical grade cocaine and meth in his rat lab. He was one of the only people in the building that always kept his door locked;)
 
I think we can all agree that drinking and driving is bad. It's dangerous, it's irresponsible, it's fundamentally wrong. That's not up for debate. That said, the OP didn't ask for a lecture. It's absurd to think that someone should be shut out of a certain career because of a mistake like that. People who have made mistakes in life are the ones that benefit most from education. That people are inherently mutable is the very premise of clinical psychology.

Report it if they ask (don't lie!), unless there's some way to get it off your record. In cases where you do have to report it, attach a statement explaining the incident and communicating your regret.

If they don't ask, why would you tell them? Are the rest of us required to report mistakes that we've made in life? Just because most of us have never done anything (or at least been caught doing anything) that ended up in on our permanent criminal record doesn't give us the right to take the moral high road.

Grad schools will not do a background check, unless there's some state legislation out that they have to (and that would be after admission--they're not going to pay for checks for all 500 applicants or whatever--these things aren't free)- and those schools would definitely ask you on your application. There just aren't enough master criminals applying for Ph.D. programs for criminal checks to have any kind of predictive validity. There is a possibility that some externship placements would do a background check-- certainly forensic units would-- but many would just look for the kind of criminal backgrounds that would be relevant to that particular work environment, such as sex crimes.
 
"However, you may need to get some help."

WOW. I think we're done here. I wish there was a vomiting emoticon.
 
Dude, don't disclose it. Many of the people on here giving you advice have not even started their phd programs yet. I am a 5th year clinical phd student at a free-standing university. While I don't have any charges against me, two of my classmates have DUIs + one has a cocaine possession charge. In addition, one classmate has a domestic battery assault. However, on this charge, charges were dropped. Additionally, one intern at my externship site has a DUI and has a breath analyzer on her car. ALl these people had these charges on their record a year or two before they applied to grad school!!! They are now doing internships at Ivy League schools. PhD programs will NOT, I repeat, NOT check your background for misdemeanors (until you get a 3rd DUI conviction, you don't have a felony). In addition, 99.9999% of internship sites will NOT check your background. If they say they will on their application, don't believe it. As a psychologist, you will not be handling drugs. Finally, if you are really uptight about your charges, you can legally get one of them expunged from your record via a lawyer.

One thing you'll learn in grad school, is that psychologists are nuts. You are going to run into lots of people who will tell stupid, stupid advice like SOME of the advice you got on this thread. WHen I read the advice that told you to email your POIs, I actually got angry at the writer's stupidity. Also, I seriously doubt the veracity of Raynee's advice --- if I recall correctly, she has not even started grad school yet. So, as a recapitulation, don't worry about your chargees and don't tell anyone, even friends in yor program. Remember: Loose lips sink ships. However, you may need to get some help.

Edieb,
I agree with you! When I read the advice telling me to email my POI's, I laughed out loud. Actually, I almost felt as if Raynee was giving me that advice so I would not be in competition with her. "Hello my name is so and so...I just wanted let you know that I am interested in working in your lab and I have two DUI's. Please pass this information along to the director of the clinical program as well. Please look out for my application!"
Are you serious?

Some of the people in this forum are living in a bubble. Do you guys not go out and have a good time? Is psychology your whole life? If so, I really feel sorry for you. Were you home schooled? Did you go to a small religious college? Some of the responses that I have received on this issue are downright stupid. The only people that have said anything inteliigent are the ones who said not to tell anybody and it is not the end of the world.

I actually shared this thread with 3 of my colleagues (all clinical psyc Ph.D.'s and professors at a University) and we all got a good laugh. One colleague of mine said "yeah...you might as well introduce yourseld to people on the street, Hello my name is so and so and I have two DUI's what's your name"

Although, some of your advice might be terrible...I appreciate all of the feedback on the issue!
 
I'm not competing with you anyway, I'm already accepted to a program.

You asked if a DUI would hinder your career, I gave you my opinion. There's no need to accuse me of sabotaging your chances. If you get in great, if you don't, try again. I care more about whether or not you kill someone.

I've tried to be tactful in saying that I think your decision to get behind the wheel SHOULD affect you in some way, it was YOUR decision. If you don't want opinions, don't ask for them.
 
Some of the people in this forum are living in a bubble. Do you guys not go out and have a good time? Is psychology your whole life? If so, I really feel sorry for you. Were you home schooled? Did you go to a small religious college? Some of the responses that I have received on this issue are downright stupid. The only people that have said anything inteliigent are the ones who said not to tell anybody and it is not the end of the world.

I'm sure most of us go out a lot, when we're not busy working. The point is that we have fun without endangering others. I'm sure some of us WERE home schooled, and I wonder why you're biased against it. Some of us are religious and some of us aren't. If you already know what kind of responses you're going to find intelligent before you post, then maybe you should have said "hi, I'm looking for someone to tell me that my momentarily silly decision won't affect my professional career, and that I should definitely hide it from people".
 
And for the record, you weren't just lectured here. I did some research to see what my program's policies were, and looked for other schools' information as well, to help you. Because you asked.

I won't post in here again because I think you've been unnecessarily offensive and rude. I just thought you should know that we HAVE given you our opinions like you asked for, and to call it "stupid" says more about you than it does us.
 
If you already know what kind of responses you're going to find intelligent before you post, then maybe you should have said "hi, I'm looking for someone to tell me that my momentarily silly decision won't affect my professional career, and that I should definitely hide it from people".


Yeah, sounds like the OP just wanted reassurance that what he did was not wrong and that it won't hurt his chances. To the OP: Don't yell at people when they tell you what you don't want to hear. Seriously. And if you have PhD friends and professors in real life who you talk to (you said you showed this thread to them) why don't you ask their opinions and the opinions of people you know instead of relying on an anonymous internet forum??
 
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Yeah, sounds like the OP just wanted reassurance that what he did was not wrong and that it won't hurt his chances. To the OP: Don't yell at people when they tell you what you don't want to hear. Seriously. And if you have PhD friends and professors in real life who you talk to (you said you showed this thread to them) why don't you ask their opinions and the opinions of people you know instead of relying on an anonymous internet forum??

Raynee...You're from Canana? That explains a lot! I am done with this thread. Next time, I will bring my questions to people who actually know what they are talking about. FYI- I already got accepted to 4 Clinical Pscy Ph.D. programs last year and am attending one next Fall. Good luck to everybody applying. It is a long road, but worth it in the end!
 
Do not say anything. It is not that big of deal. Dr. Richard Marsh at UGA who is an incredible professor and top cognitive psychology researcher got his second DUI the day before he went up for tenure, which everybody knew about since the story was published in the school paper. He ended up getting tenure and nothing ever ever came from the DUI. He is a great guy too. I also work with plenty of psyc professors who have DUIs and some who have much worse things on their records. As long as it is not a serious felony, there is nothing to worry about
 
Raynee...You're from Canana? That explains a lot! I am done with this thread. Next time, I will bring my questions to people who actually know what they are talking about. FYI- I already got accepted to 4 Clinical Pscy Ph.D. programs last year and am attending one next Fall. Good luck to everybody applying. It is a long road, but worth it in the end!

If you are already accepted into 4 Clinical Psych PhD programs, then why did you originally post asking if your DUIs would have an effect on your changes of getting accepted into a program.

I got a DUI 5 years ago and recently got another one (my second). Will this affect my chances of getting accepted into a Ph.D. clinical psychology program?
 
"I recommend that you e-mail both the director of admissions and your POI at every school and disclose it to them and ask if they'd consider taking you with that in mind."

This has to be some of the worst advice I have every heard. This isn't something that should ruin my life/career. It is not like I murdered someone or robbed a bank which would look bad on my character (violent and thieving). How is me getting a DUI going to affect my work in Graduate school or my research potential? I work in a psychology department now and everyone who I have talked to about this told me to only disclose this information if asked. Do you really think it will matter if I start a program somewhere and they find out about a DUI? Do you think they will kick me out of school? For one, that is probably illegal. Just my thoughts...

Number one, If a program doesn't ask you, they cannot kick you out for nondisclosure. That would be illegal and they could have a nice lawsuit coming at them.

Number two, I agree, that is ridiculous advice. I have a felony conviction from a crime that I committed when I was 18. Although it was a non violent crime and not a drug charge, I ended up in some serious trouble. Since then, I had to comply with all sorts of court and probation stipulations. Even though it has been 8 years since I committed the crime, my record won't be erased until 2009.

When I applied to schools, I only disclosed the info when asked. Its the same for job applications; if they don't ask, you don't need to tell. Do you really think that ex-offenders could obtain employment if they walked around telling everyone, 'hey, I'm an offender, why don't you hire me, or accept me into your graduate program?' In reality, there are major stereotypes and discriminations associated with being a 'convicted felon' or a 'criminal', and although most people agree that rehabilitation is possible, that doesn't mean that they want to hire or work with someone that has been convicted of a crime. Even if you are asked on an application, your best bet is to write 'if needed, will explain further upon request at an interview.' In fact, most people who work with offenders to help them obtain employment, etc. give out that advice themselves. Sometimes, having a record will exclude you automatically from jobs or schools, but usually, if you are able to get an interview and explain it face to face, you have a much better chance. If you do not have a felony conviction as of yet, I would definately try my hardest not to get one. It is much harder to get what you want in life if you are labeled a felon. Seriously, just continue what you're doing and if you are asked, explain. Chances are, a prof is more interested in your research abilities and capabilities than in your personal life.
 
Without restating everything, I agree with psychanon.

However, I wanted to add that you should be prepared for this to come up again when you apply for internship, postdoc, and licensure. This issue may be especially problematic if you seek practicum training or employment at a government site, such as a VA. But again, it may not be insurmountable - just something that you will need to be prepared to deal with.

And for the record, I have already completed my PhD.
 
Sorry if this is digging up "old news" but I wanted to throw my hat in the ring.

If you make a point of disclosing this you don't have a chance in hell of getting in. No prof. is going to keep you in the running if there is evidence of an alcohol problem. I hope you don't have one.

The law is almost absurd in most states on how much alcohol one can have in their system before they are considered intoxicated. I'm willing to wager everyone on this board who drinks socially has driven when they would have been considered legally drunk and were no worse off than someone who is driving tired or taking Benadryl. None are a good idea but alcohol is the only one that ends up on your record.

I don't know how much you were drinking when you got your DUI's or if it's a frequent thing but I'll take you at your word that it was a matter of bad luck and youthful stupidity. Move on, don't ever put yourself in the position where it can happen again, and don't disclose the DUI unless it is required... although in that case you might as well save your money. If you do it again between grad school and internship you'll pay for it.
 
I'm willing to wager everyone on this board who drinks socially has driven when they would have been considered legally drunk and were no worse off than someone who is driving tired or taking Benadryl. None are a good idea but alcohol is the only one that ends up on your record.

Not that it really matters for this thread, but you'd lose some money on that... Since I've had friends and relatives who have been injured by drunk drivers, I've NEVER driven when I've had anything to drink that day.

In my opinion, people should have a zero tolerance policy for themselves. If they know they have to drive somewhere they should not drink. Sure it's nice to drink with friends once in a while, but it's also a drug.

I don't buy the "I was just driving for a few seconds" story, but maybe that's just me.
 
Along with Raynee, I'd make that a losing bet. I don't see how drinking and driving could be anything other than totally preventable. If I know I'm going to be drinking somewhere, I find transportation other than my own car. If I drive, I don't drink alcohol. I don't understand how any other sort of behaviour is possible without total disregard for the possible consequences, other than either people mistakenly believing that they're "ok to drive" out of sheer foolishness, or an immature belief that they're invincible. The fact that I've never done it could be a part of why I find it morally abhorrent.
 
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Along with Raynee, I'd make that a losing bet. I don't see how drinking and driving could be anything other than totally preventable. If I know I'm going to be drinking somewhere, I find transportation other than my own car. If I drive, I don't drink alcohol. I don't understand how any other sort of behaviour is possible without total disregard for the possible consequences, other than either people mistakenly believing that they're "ok to drive" out of sheer foolishness, or an imature belief that they're invincible. The fact that I've never done it could be a part of why I find it morally abhorrent.


^^ Same here. Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
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I'll also jump on the "Never once drove drunk" bandwagon.

If I'm having >1 drink I don't drive, end of story. If I have 1 drink, we're waiting at least an hour after I'm done before I'm driving anywhere. Do people honestly find it that hard to find a DD? I've never once had a problem doing that, usually someone has to get up early, or doesn't feel like drinking, etc. Maybe this is just my social circle....we ARE definitely a weird bunch:)
 
So to get back on topic.......

Hi all,
I have an important question to ask the forum. I got a DUI 5 years ago and recently got another one (my second).

Will this affect my chances of getting accepted into a Ph.D. clinical psychology program?

Will it affect my career in anyway down the road?

Is there a difference in whether it will affect me if I choose private practice or an academic position?

-t
 
So in order to, as Therapist4Chnge just wrote: "to get back on topic" i.e. Joepa69's original questions, I wanted to add a different dimension as to how one's criminal record might effect his/her psychology schooling, training, and profession. Although, as Danzgymn86 pointed out, if Joepa is already accepted and about to go to a Ph.D. program why does he care about the getting accepted to school part?

In any case, I began to think that there probably is a strong correlation between criminal behavior and certain types of mental illness, such as the classic sociopath (someone who has no conscience or remorse). Of course, I knew that this is now called Antisocial Personality Disorder - or so I thought. I was thinking specifically about this because of the rather vehement antipathy Joepa69 was writings to other's opinions (Nothing to me directly, Joepa69 only ignored my orginal citation of the california law explained by a psychologist and just restated it.) culminating in his leaving the thread and "Next time, I will bring my questions to people who actually know what they are talking about..", as well as his dismisal of his DUI's as not being a big deal. Hunter123 presented a much more calm opinion from someone who admits to being a criminal but still very interesting.

I started looking up some information and quickly found that there is a major nomenclature problem in this area. The DSM uses the term Antisocial Personality Disorder (axis II). The ICD-10 use Dissocial Personality Disorder. There are many individual researchers who oppose these diagnositic names/criteria arguing that Psychopathy and Sociopathy are not old terms and still need to be recognized since the capture either very specific types of the DSM and ICD diagnoses or entirely different diagnoses. Well, no space to elaborate more. What I was curious about was the lack or remorse/ conscience and its relation to crime.

Studies appear to correlate APD (to use the DSM term) with 65 to 80% or criminals! And the only Axis I disorder which positively correlates with APD is, you guessed it, substance abuse disorder! Of course substance abuse disorders are much more than a DUI but certainly it seems germane to our thread discussion. Also the incidence of APD is higher males.

So my conlusion is just that if one has a criminal background, he/ she may very well also be suffering from a Personality Disorder (which in turn is often linked to subtance abuse - basically our thread's case). Anyone can not help but ask: should such a person be allowed to become a psychologist? Also, what more should be done to prevent this? Personality Disorders do not really go away as some with other kinds of illnesses may have full remissions.

I do not think any of this is off topic. I have just tried to paint a fuller picture of a supposed typical person with a criminal record, specifically substance abuse.
 
You got me...I am an alcoholic psychopath. Good work Columbo...
 
You got me...I am an alcoholic psychopath. Good work Columbo...

Columbo here (good you didn't say Kojack since I still have my hair:laugh:)! Well I know you are being facetious :laugh: but I was really speaking generally about people with criminal records in general since the likely hood of an antisocial personality disorder (or one of its forms/ other names) is so strong. They feel no real guilt or remorse so they break laws.

Did you at least get the DUI's while drinking good alcohol? If I got a DUI while drinking some lousy mass produced beer (like Budweiser, Heineken, etc.) or some cheap liquor (Brass monkey, Rebel Yell, Maddog), I would be ashamed of myself even if I was a sociopath:laugh:. For all that trouble I would have at least wanted to have imbibed a libation of a good American microbrewed IPA or a nice single malt. What was Paris Hilton drinking? She gets out today. Maybe she will appear on SDN asking if she can still get into graduate school!:laugh:
 
So in order to, as Therapist4Chnge just wrote: "to get back on topic" i.e. Joepa69's original questions, I wanted to add a different dimension as to how one's criminal record might effect his/her psychology schooling, training, and profession. Although, as Danzgymn86 pointed out, if Joepa is already accepted and about to go to a Ph.D. program why does he care about the getting accepted to school part?

In any case, I began to think that there probably is a strong correlation between criminal behavior and certain types of mental illness, such as the classic sociopath (someone who has no conscience or remorse). Of course, I knew that this is now called Antisocial Personality Disorder - or so I thought. I was thinking specifically about this because of the rather vehement antipathy Joepa69 was writings to other's opinions (Nothing to me directly, Joepa69 only ignored my orginal citation of the california law explained by a psychologist and just restated it.) culminating in his leaving the thread and "Next time, I will bring my questions to people who actually know what they are talking about..", as well as his dismisal of his DUI's as not being a big deal. Hunter123 presented a much more calm opinion from someone who admits to being a criminal but still very interesting.

I started looking up some information and quickly found that there is a major nomenclature problem in this area. The DSM uses the term Antisocial Personality Disorder (axis II). The ICD-10 use Dissocial Personality Disorder. There are many individual researchers who oppose these diagnositic names/criteria arguing that Psychopathy and Sociopathy are not old terms and still need to be recognized since the capture either very specific types of the DSM and ICD diagnoses or entirely different diagnoses. Well, no space to elaborate more. What I was curious about was the lack or remorse/ conscience and its relation to crime.

Studies appear to correlate APD (to use the DSM term) with 65 to 80% or criminals! And the only Axis I disorder which positively correlates with APD is, you guessed it, substance abuse disorder! Of course substance abuse disorders are much more than a DUI but certainly it seems germane to our thread discussion. Also the incidence of APD is higher males.

So my conlusion is just that if one has a criminal background, he/ she may very well also be suffering from a Personality Disorder (which in turn is often linked to subtance abuse - basically our thread's case). Anyone can not help but ask: should such a person be allowed to become a psychologist? Also, what more should be done to prevent this? Personality Disorders do not really go away as some with other kinds of illnesses may have full remissions.

I do not think any of this is off topic. I have just tried to paint a fuller picture of a supposed typical person with a criminal record, specifically substance abuse.

Wow, you are making HUGE jumps in logic there. If you are not in grad school yet, you will learn soon that you should never ever draw conclusions about psychopathology based on such a small amount of information, especially something as inflammatory as APD. Do you honestly think that everyone who ever gets a DUI has APD? If so, we'd have a lot of sociopaths running around out there. Research clearly shows that only a teeny tiny percentage of those who commit crimes are sociopaths.

Again, I'm hearing a lot of moralizing and "I-would-never-do-that"-ing. Those of you who are not yet in grad school should really learn how to empathize with people very soon. It's the most important skill of being a therapist. You will have a lot of clients who have done things you find appalling. The worst thing out can do in that situation is appear shocked or disgusted. You will need to learn to understand the clients point of view, appreciate the determinants that lead to their problems, and help them learn to make better decisions in the future.

But to conclude that an anonymous person on the internet has no conscious because of a DUI... that just irresponsible. Like most of you, I would never drive drunk, but I've known people who have made such mistakes, and I recognize that they're not monsters...just people who have made poor choices. If you have never done anything wrong in your entire life nor have you known anyone personally who has ever done anything wrong... maybe you should meet some more people before you become a therapist.
 
I have a question.... Why is everyone so pretentious? The "one-up-manship" is just gross already.
 
Columbo here (good you didn't say Kojack since I still have my hair:laugh:)! Well I know you are being facetious :laugh: but I was really speaking generally about people with criminal records in general since the likely hood of an antisocial personality disorder (or one of its forms/ other names) is so strong. They feel no real guilt or remorse so they break laws.

Did you at least get the DUI's while drinking good alcohol? If I got a DUI while drinking some lousy mass produced beer (like Budweiser, Heineken, etc.) or some cheap liquor (Brass monkey, Rebel Yell, Maddog), I would be ashamed of myself even if I was a sociopath:laugh:. For all that trouble I would have at least wanted to have imbibed a libation of a good American microbrewed IPA or a nice single malt. What was Paris Hilton drinking? She gets out today. Maybe she will appear on SDN asking if she can still get into graduate school!:laugh:

FYI-I was actually drinking Sweetwater 420. It is a great pale ale brewed in Atlanta. Since I have to report to jail for a few days before I start school on August 23rd, I am very interested to hear about Paris's experience in the slammer. When I get out, I will report back to SDN about my experience!
 
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