Em can apply to multiple fields but you can't apply to an em accepted program as IM
Critical care (internal medicine) fellowship 2013-2014
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I won't elaborate fully, but lets just say I have experience with them recently in their ICU with a relative and was not thrilled with the experience. I would have reamed my residents and fellows out badly for the things I saw
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Depends on the fellowship.
There are a lot of fellowships (IM-CC included) which do not go through the match. Programs interview people, then send out offers on their own timelines.
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It has been quiet. I am new here.
Wonder if there is still some hope for more interviews?
I haven't heard from quite a few programs yet
Wonder if there is still some hope for more interviews?
I haven't heard from quite a few programs yet
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Anyone applying to programs accepting paper applications only?
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Ok, let me update this...
Interviews
University of Pittsburgh
Mayo Clinic
Washington Hospital Center
Cooper University
Cedars-Sinai
Waitlisted (I didn't know fellowship programs did interview waitlists...)
Wash U
Rejections
Wake Forest (initially offered interview, retracted due to too many EM fellows in past few years)
University of Washington
University of Missouri Kansas City
University of Rochester
Cleveland Clinic
Still waiting to hear from...
9 more programs...
At this point in the cycle my expectation is that any place I haven't heard a peep from is likely to come through as a rejection. Not a guarantee, but since the most recent rejections came along with "we have filled our 2014 class", it's a good bet that places are making decisions.
Interviews
University of Pittsburgh
Mayo Clinic
Washington Hospital Center
Cooper University
Cedars-Sinai
Waitlisted (I didn't know fellowship programs did interview waitlists...)
Wash U
Rejections
Wake Forest (initially offered interview, retracted due to too many EM fellows in past few years)
University of Washington
University of Missouri Kansas City
University of Rochester
Cleveland Clinic
Still waiting to hear from...
9 more programs...
At this point in the cycle my expectation is that any place I haven't heard a peep from is likely to come through as a rejection. Not a guarantee, but since the most recent rejections came along with "we have filled our 2014 class", it's a good bet that places are making decisions.
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Add Mount Sinai and Henry Ford. Stanford reviewing apps
None from the other NY programs, and none from FL, AFAIK
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Oooo fancy. Rejection letter via the postal service. I figured everything was going to come through email.
But I got an acceptance phone call from another program, so I guess it all evens out.
But I got an acceptance phone call from another program, so I guess it all evens out.
D
deleted547339
How competitive are ccm fellowships for em grads to get? Also, what do they look for other than obviously good recs from your PD? Inservice scores? Research?
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I can't tell you how competitive they are, but there are some issues for EM grads at IM programs.
1) the ABEM/ABIM agreement requires that at least 75% of the people accepted to the program over a 5 year average must be from IM training. So if a program has taken a lot of EM people recently, then some years they won't be able to take any EM people in order to get the average # of IM grads up above 75%.
2) The agreement also requires EM grads to have 6 months of IM training (3 of which must be in a medical ICU; MICU, CCU, etc... TICU/SICU don't count) to be eligible to supervise IM residents. It's worth noting that the 6 months don't have to be completed prior to starting the program, but EM grads have to finish the months before taking on a supervisory role. So depending on how the program is structured they may not be able to take EM people who haven't completed the 6 months before arriving.
D
deleted547339
Thanks Dr. Bob. I guess my question is: Do most EM grads that want to go into CCM will get a spot? I understand everyone can't go to the premier programs, but if I graduate from a strong EM residency with average research and a strong rec letter from my PD, would it be safe to assume that I will land somewhere?
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Unfortunately no... I have a lot of co-workers and friends who have been unsuccessful the past few years. It was easier before the pathways to board certification opened... most people figured it wasn't worth it. But now that board certification is a possibility, more and more people are applying and upping the ante for applications. And with EM enrollment being limited by the EM/IM agreements it creates an artifical bottleneck as well.
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Huh, that's a bummer. I wonder if when the surg and anesthesia pathways get going it will be a bit easier to land a fellowship.
Based on your posts it sounds like you've been really successful--congrats. Any ideas what features of an application you think IM CC programs tend to highly value in EM applicants? Research? Inservice? Letter from your PD? Curious about this like the other poster.
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what cc-em fellowships? em docs get boarded through ABIM, wbich you applied to as IM, and they can get neuro and anesthesia based fellowships, which we cant. im not even sure sbo boards them through those routes tbh. as far as i kno the only routes leading to bkard eligibility as IM are ABIM CC and pulm/cc. could be wrong though
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So, there are a few EM-CC programs around the country. They don't lead to board certification though.
EM docs can get boarded through IM, anesthesia and surgery. The door for neuro certification has closed. EM docs also can't do pulm/cc fellowships.
namethatsmell said:
Thanks
Research seemed to be a big issue for a lot of programs. Nobody asked for my inservice scores. Uh... beyond that I'm not sure. There were plenty of places that turned me down also so what's important to one program may be insignificant to another.
D
deleted547339
Do Step scores/AOA in med school matter, or is that all gone once you get to residency?
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It's still relevant. Step 1 not so much perhaps...
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AT my shop there is a step 1 cutoff. Almost no one looks at step 2, and AOA certainly helps. Again since it is a fellowship and there is significant time for personal development a lot of people like research especially at the big universities, although it is not a must by any means.
I found some of the programs also looked at your critical thinking skills (UPMC) I based this on the interview day and questions/problem solving techniques needed during the interview.
For EM it tends to be somewhat competitive and it is a sort of self selecting bias in that the EM docs who go into critical care "tend" to be the more competitive overall residents anyways.
I found some of the programs also looked at your critical thinking skills (UPMC) I based this on the interview day and questions/problem solving techniques needed during the interview.
For EM it tends to be somewhat competitive and it is a sort of self selecting bias in that the EM docs who go into critical care "tend" to be the more competitive overall residents anyways.
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There are still a lot of programs that haven't sent a rejection email. I can't believe that any of them are still mulling over who to interview.
I'm assuming that if they haven't sent out an email of any kind, that by now it's just a silent rejection.
I could just email them to be sure, but that would be the easy way... and when have I ever done anything the easy way.
I'm assuming that if they haven't sent out an email of any kind, that by now it's just a silent rejection.
I could just email them to be sure, but that would be the easy way... and when have I ever done anything the easy way.
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Hi guys...Im an intern in my 4th month...I was just wondering how competitive the 2 year straight crit care is after IM...I asked people at my program and no one seems to know or give a satisfactory answer...I know that the number of programs are much lesser...Im an IMG on a H1B visa...Best of luck to everyone!!Thanks in advance...
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has anyone heard any news at all from Mount Sinai, they stopped iv people on Oct 31 i thought we we hear back by now
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have you heard from mount sinai?
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when did you iv for mount sinai? did you hear back from them?
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I didn't apply to Mt. Sinai.
I didn't apply to any of the NYC programs... just didn't want to live in/near NYC.
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is it over for matching in critical care? iv's?
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I had 2 IVs the week before last... heard from them out of the blue. They said they aren't making decisions until mid Dec.
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Wound up getting fellowship in a new program in south jersey.
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where were they? if you dont want to share name can u tell us which state they were in? do most programs make offers in December?
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Miami and St. Louis.
No idea when most programs make their offers but most of the ones I had applied to had made a decision by this point.
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It seems this thread, and the interview season in general has pretty much come to a close.
So for posterity, and since it's all over with now, here are my closing thoughts.
1) It's still tough for EM trained people to get into IM-CC programs. Anesthesia-CC and GS-CC are opening up to us but we'll face the same issues there: training agreements, caps on the numbers of fellows, prerequisites, etc. In time I'd like to see EM develop its own board exam for critical care but that's still a ways off.
2) There is a wide disparity between programs as to how they approach the training for EM trained people. Some programs have been taking us for a while and have a good handle on how to bring us up to speed versus an IM trained person; others do not and it will probably take a while before their curriculum and infrastructure reflects it.
3) EM trained people should still probably apply as widely as possible. There are only 30-something IM-CC programs on ERAS... it's not that expensive to apply to all of them.
And since at this point there's no need for obfuscation, here's my final list.
Applied: everywhere except the NYC programs, Detroit, and Shrevesport. And that's only because my family didn't want to live in those cities.
Interviewed: Mayo Clinic, Washington Hospital Center, Cooper University, University of Pittsburgh, Cedars-Sinai, University of Miami, Washington University/BJH
Accepted: Mayo Clinic, University of Miami, Washington University/BJH
Took a position with: Washington University/BJH
So for posterity, and since it's all over with now, here are my closing thoughts.
1) It's still tough for EM trained people to get into IM-CC programs. Anesthesia-CC and GS-CC are opening up to us but we'll face the same issues there: training agreements, caps on the numbers of fellows, prerequisites, etc. In time I'd like to see EM develop its own board exam for critical care but that's still a ways off.
2) There is a wide disparity between programs as to how they approach the training for EM trained people. Some programs have been taking us for a while and have a good handle on how to bring us up to speed versus an IM trained person; others do not and it will probably take a while before their curriculum and infrastructure reflects it.
3) EM trained people should still probably apply as widely as possible. There are only 30-something IM-CC programs on ERAS... it's not that expensive to apply to all of them.
And since at this point there's no need for obfuscation, here's my final list.
Applied: everywhere except the NYC programs, Detroit, and Shrevesport. And that's only because my family didn't want to live in those cities.
Interviewed: Mayo Clinic, Washington Hospital Center, Cooper University, University of Pittsburgh, Cedars-Sinai, University of Miami, Washington University/BJH
Accepted: Mayo Clinic, University of Miami, Washington University/BJH
Took a position with: Washington University/BJH
any (admittedly superficial) opinions of some of those places? any that were surprisingly competitive? where did the training seem more comprehensive/intense?
