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CRNA's: sorry not worried anymore

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by dizzy21, Aug 18, 2011.

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  1. mersault

    mersault

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    man those don't seem like bad numbers at all.....granted we don't know what will happen with inflation, but I think 250-275 is what ppl in California and other popular locations are making TODAY. I think it's important for med students to enter the field expecting those kinds of numbers, and if things don't turn out to be as bad as ppl in sdn keep saying, well then anything more is gravy.
  2. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor

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    I'm neither a pessimist nor an optimist; I'm simply telling it as I see it.

    $275 isn't enough for the cost of your education and sacrifices; but, if it works for you then so be it.

    I'd like to see your medical tuition repaid if your payer mix is greater than 50% CMS/No pay. ObamaCare simply can't have its cake and eat it too.

    Why should a USA trained Anesthesiologist make 40% less than his/her Canadian Colleague?
    GasEmDee likes this.
  3. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor

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    Correct. Long term picture. Long term.:thumbup:
  4. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? Moderator

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    Yes we do.
  5. yappy

    yappy

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    This interests me. Does anyone know what the mean annual income for Canadian anesthesiologists are after adjusting for # of hours worked?


  6. vector2

    vector2 ASA Member

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  7. yappy

    yappy

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  8. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor

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    Canadian Resident used to post here reported many starting jobs avail. in Canada at $350K. Also, my 40% discount figure refers to income in 2022. I wonder what Canadian Anesthesiologists will be earning in their currency vs. our devalued US Dollar? Perhaps, 40% was too generous and 50% would be a better number.


    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=706759
    "On average the Canadian anesthesiologists make around ~350K a year."
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  9. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor

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  10. IlDestriero

    IlDestriero Ether Man

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    Canada's a good back up plan.
  11. imfrankie

    imfrankie Anesthesiologist

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    Especially if you like BC and OB
  12. Quirk11

    Quirk11

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    There are a lot of great things about Canada, although I wonder if one can easily adapt to the cold and lack of summers (about 1.5 months in most areas).

    I am no Grey Owl, but I live in a cabin most of the year near Canada and even I have trouble with the cold. I have slept in 15 degree nights with 3 balaclavas on, and used a lake for water when I lost power.

    Living in the cold is not so much fun or easy, unless you are born in the area or have family. This winter, I tried ice fishing, got extreme weather cold gear, but all in all I just kept thinking of summer and warmer weather. I suppose I could snowmobile more, but sailing, swimming or jet skiing is much, much better.

    I just got out on my sailboat today and it was a joy. Of course I had a wetsuit on with boots and hoodies and could only last about 40 minutes.

    Of course, some people like Richard Proenke survived happily in log cabins in Alaska - for me and most of my "Northern" friends we just simply are jealous of warm weather folks...


  13. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor

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    I agree. That's why I will stay in the Southeast or Southwest. Think of the mason Dixon line as my border. ;)
  14. walkerahl

    walkerahl

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    Would anyone else like to add their thoughts on this issue.
  15. thepoopologist

    thepoopologist Ph.D in Clinical Meconium

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    I am an MIII in a state where CRNAs and AA's are abundant.

    Today when I was doing a consult on a patient a CRNA came in to preop him for an endoscopy. She was asking me about lab values and in the course of the conversation she told me that CK was a more specific marker for the heart than CKMB. When I proceeded to clarify for her she then said, "Really? I did hearts for five years...are you sure?" and googled it on her phone.

    Then she looked at the patients EKG, which was clearly a first degree block and said "first degree AV block" on it, and called it a Wenckebach, and to her credit described Wenckebach correctly...then writes down "Mobitz Type II" on her preop assessment.
  16. scudrunner

    scudrunner ASAPAC Supporter

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    LOL, awesome.
  17. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST Lifetime Donor

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    Did she then call the urgent or emergent consult to cards for permanent pacemaker placement?
  18. kazuma

    kazuma CA-2

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    :rolleyes:
  19. NRAI2001

    NRAI2001 3K Member

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    Haha yea no more studying is about the correct attitude... I dont think any medical student or resident would even imagine saying that no matter how far along they maybe.
  20. btbam

    btbam

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    Stumbled upon this CRNA group's website: http://sweetdreams-inc.com/about_us.html

    Included is this gem: Incorporated in 2005, Sweet Dreams Nurse Anesthesia, Inc. is proud to carry on the traditional anesthesia practice model, where nurse anesthetists collaborate with surgeons to provide the best anesthesia care possible. :laugh:
  21. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? Moderator

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    If not for the AAs I'd think you were local to me.


    Back in my well-intentioned but naive early-attendingship days (really not that long ago), I made an attempt to hold a benign M&M style 5-minute review with a few CRNAs to talk over a case that almost went very badly.

    Beyond the resentment and simmering anger that I would dare to teach them anything, what was most disturbing was the dismissive way that one misidentified a Mobitz II as a 3rd deg block, yet still thought it was not a big deal in the context of that elective case.


    Still, my favorite bad CRNA move of all time is the "move the ECG leads around to make the ST depression go away" stunt.
  22. Bertelman

    Bertelman Maverick!

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    Like the new tagline, pgg, but I'm not sure I want to know who "the blind" are.
  23. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? Moderator

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  24. Bertelman

    Bertelman Maverick!

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    No, it works well, because it can be applied to so many situations. The ambiguity keeps people guessing. Here I thought it applied to your CRNA colleagues.
  25. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? Moderator

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    I try not to be ambiguously snarky though, that's just rude.


    The 3 .mil CRNAs I work with regularly are solid. It's the random strip-mall-CRNA-mill-trained ones that breeze through the locums joint on short term vacation fills that terrify me.
  26. chessknt87

    chessknt87

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    I would still be concerned.... Volume is not as important as the concept that they are able to provide equivalent care. If they can solidify that enough then the supply will rise to meet demand for cheaper labor.
  27. Pedsbro

    Pedsbro

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  28. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor

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    Conversely, the American Association of Nurse Anesthetists referred to a study it financed that was published in Health Affairs in 2010. It examined Medicare data from 1999 to 2005 and found no evidence that opting out of the supervision requirement resulted in increased inpatient deaths or complications.
    "When it comes to giving anesthesia, certified registered nurse anesthetists and anesthesiologists are identical," said Christopher Bettin, a spokesman for the nurse anesthetists group. "There are no differences in what they learn, the drugs and equipment they use and the standards of care they follow."


    The AANA claims you are glorified CRNA.
  29. Baller MD

    Baller MD

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    So did the CRNA salaries really go down and is the market really saturated 4 years out since this last post?
  30. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor

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    CRNA salaries have been FROZEN or CUT in my state over the past 2 years. Several Groups cut CRNA pay by $15K while others froze the salary at 2012 levels.
    There is a glut of CRNA labor out there and you can hire all the CRNA manpower needed pretty easily. So, the market is pretty saturated but a newly minted CRNA can still find employment with effort.
  31. BuzzPhreed

    BuzzPhreed

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    True in some markets.

    I think the new CRNAs are not coming in at $140-150k like they did a few years ago. Most new ones are coming in at the $110-120k range. That's in a decent market. If they are willing to go work in BFE, then in some places the sky is still the limit.

    The 2010 RAND report predicts a CRNA surplus of over 4,000 practitioners, and still an anesthesiologist shortage of more than 3,000 by the year 2020. That is if you believe the 2010 RAND report.

    http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/technical_reports/2010/RAND_TR688.pdf
  32. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor

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    Rand is wrong because supervision will increase from 2:1 to 4:1 by 2020 leaving a NET surplus of Anesthesiologists. The AANA is training all these CRNAs for an expected increase in demand via bigger coverage ratios. AMCs are turning to larger ratios and quasi independent CRNA practice for certain cases like Gi and Ob.
  33. BLADEMDA

    BLADEMDA SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor

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    More certified nurse anesthetists (CRNA’s). It seems apparent that ObamaCare is interested in employing cheaper providers of medical services. CRNA’s will command lower salaries than anesthesiologists. The premise to be tested is whether CRNA’s can provide the same care for less money. Expect to see wider use of anesthesia care teams and of independent CRNA practice. Expect the overall quality of anesthesia care to change as more CRNA’s and less M.D.’s are employed.

    Richard Novak, MD
  34. BuzzPhreed

    BuzzPhreed

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    As you probably already know I recently left a job that was already basically 4:1 most of the time. I assure you it wasn't just OB and GI that I was covering 4:1. Neurosurgery (cranis and all), complex vascular cases, etc.

    That's a big reason why I left. It is ****ing scary what is going on out there. Major catastrophes waiting to happen. And I'm not going to be on the hook for that kinda thing. Put out fires, do papework, and expect CRNAs to simply figure out what's best. Based on what I saw no clue on how to properly manage the vent portion of the anesthetic with a sick patient. No idea what is "too much" narcotic for a case. 90 year olds getting midazolam and huge doses of ketamine and then I have to deal with them when they're completely bat**** in the PACU. You name it. Scary. Scarier most didn't call me because they either didn't know they were ****ing up the case or they didn't think they needed my help. 4:1 it is hard to do anything but keep the machine running let alone when you actually have a problem.

    It's a huge ****ing social experiment that in any other instance we would need IRB approval and informed consent. Wake-up America.
    EasyDAD likes this.

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