D.O. schools don't care about URM's?

[doctorold]

I read in one post someone commenting that DO schools don't care about recruiting URM's. Being a URM myself I was a little troubled by that. I'm a black male, which many consider an endangered specie in medicine, since most of the urm's who apply and get into med schools (MD+DO) are females. URM males and especially African American males show little interest in medicine, for whatever reason. That reminded me of a data analysis sheet that I saw somewhere about 1st year black students enrolled in DO schools.
According to that report, in 2012 AACOMAS received 15,000 applications for the DO seats. of these 15,000 applications only 132 matriculated in DO schools. The total percentage of black males in 1st year in D.O. schools in 2012 was only 1.2%, and for the black females it was a 1.4% for the total of 2.5% of all matriculants.
I have a copy of the Osteopathic Medical College Information book (2014 entering class version), so I looked at it looking for the enrollment of black students in some DO schools for the 2013 year. I found some schools with 0% black students in 1st year, like A.T. Still (Arizona), CCOM/MWU, Lecom-Bradenton, Rocky Vista, TUNCOM. Many had >1% and 1%, and some had around 10% in heavily populated area by AA (like NY, NJ, the Carolina's, GA and Ohio).
I don't really believe that the reason for this is that DO schools don't care about URM's, but rather that they cannot really compete with MD schools that fight over recruiting qualified URM students to achieve the diversity they seek in their student body. MD schools offer reputation and a lot of money in scholarships and other incentives to URM's and the qualified will have to pick between 5 or 6 scholarship offers.
In my school we are recruited by man many MD schools, but I've never seen a DO school representative on campus. We are even recruited by Caribbean med schools (Ross), and another school in Mexico, but not DO schools, which I find very odd, given the mission of DO schools in focusing on primary care, and serving the undeserved, which the AA community represents a major part of.
I met many AA med applicants who never even heard of DO schools.
I think the real reason why there are very few AA matriculants in DO schools is a combination of many failures. A few URM students interested in medicine in the first place, the qualified ones get recruited by MD and Caribbean Med schools, the DO schools don't do near enough to reach out to URM students or even to let them know that they exist.
I think DO schools do care, but feel that they cannot compete with the MD schools, but that is wrong. Some people will prefer to go to DO school if it suits them better, and if that means they get to live somewhere they like.
DO schools need to reach out more to URM's to let them know that they are there, and that they care about recruiting URM's.
What do you think?

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[deleted480308]

Anyone qualified to survive medical school should be able to find out which medical schools there are...race should not be a factor in admissions or recruitment

 

[Goro]

Whoever told you that was either outright lying or so pathologically ignorant that their lifespan is limited. We care very much about recruiting URMs. You are correct in the gender ratios for African-American DO student, at least at my school..it's been ~2:1 female:male.

I read in one post someone commenting that DO schools don't care about recruiting URM's.

Here is the sad truth. MD schools have a lot more financial resources to throw at URM students than do Do schools. We're vastly more tuition driven, and plenty of the COMs lack endowments. So it's not that we're not interested, we are, but lack the means to find a way to solve the problem. I've told my wily old Admissions dean more than once that instead of running around out state to do recruting, that he should go to some of the HBCs and do some recruiting there.

OK, Goro's BP is rising in frustration now, so I'm backing away from the computer. Y'all behave now.


MD schools offer reputation and a lot of money in scholarships and other incentives to URM's and the qualified will have to pick between 5 or 6 scholarship offers.

In my school we are recruited by many many MD schools, but I've never seen a DO school representative on campus.

We are even recruited by Caribbean med schools (Ross), and another school in Mexico, but not DO schools, which I find very odd, given the mission of DO schools in focusing on primary care, and serving the undeserved, which the AA community represents a major part of.

I met many AA med applicants who never even heard of DO schools.
I think the real reason why there are very few AA matriculants in DO schools is a combination of many failures. A few URM students interested in medicine in the first place, the qualified ones get recruited by MD and Caribbean Med schools, the DO schools don't do near enough to reach out to URM students or even to let them know that they exist.

 

[doctorold]

I've told my wily old Admissions dean more than once that instead of running around out state to do recruting, that he should go to some of the HBCs and do some recruiting there.

This is a good idea. Students will be very happy to hear from you guys, and your expenses will be a lot less because your target audience will be concentrated in one place.
Glad to know that what I heard is wrong.

 

[DrMidlife]

I was skeptical, but google hit on some substance to this issue: http://thedo.osteopathic.org/2012/0...s-black-students-plunge-in-number-proportion/

Sounds like schools are not more or less URM friendly lately, neither MD nor DO. Sounds like the number of URM candidates gets smaller when the economy tanks. So those fewer URM candidates get pulled up the prestige gradient.

Before med school I would have said "harumph, student loans completely level the socioeconomic playing field - nobody can say money is a problem here" but that turned out to be BS. The vast majority of my classmates are from families with wealth to support their endeavors. And the price tag for med school is unbelievable, unless you're in the small portion of students who can go to a public med school in an inexpensive state.

 

[deleted480308]

I was skeptical, but google hit on some substance to this issue: http://thedo.osteopathic.org/2012/0...s-black-students-plunge-in-number-proportion/

Sounds like schools are not more or less URM friendly lately, neither MD nor DO. Sounds like the number of URM candidates gets smaller when the economy tanks. So those fewer URM candidates get pulled up the prestige gradient.

Before med school I would have said "harumph, student loans completely level the socioeconomic playing field - nobody can say money is a problem here" but that turned out to be BS. The vast majority of my classmates are from families with wealth to support their endeavors. And the price tag for med school is unbelievable, unless you're in the small portion of students who can go to a public med school in an inexpensive state.

Anyone with good credit can get the loans, but as with all things money makes it easier

 

[doctorold]

I was skeptical, but google hit on some substance to this issue: http://thedo.osteopathic.org/2012/0...s-black-students-plunge-in-number-proportion/

That was an interesting article DrMidlife. Thanks for sharing.

 

[DrMidlife]

Anyone with good credit can get the loans, but as with all things money makes it easier

Right, and/but I'd challenge us all to think about a ~20 year timeframe, where there's undergrad debt, increasing incidence of grad/SMP debt, then add $250k+. Interest accumulates always, uncertainty in repayment/forgiveness program futures, maybe add in a below average performance in med school if the student had sub-competitive stats thus residency choices are fewer, add a "lost" year for every child born to about half the graduating class, etc.

Not trying to rain on any parades, just reporting the general financial malaise I feel personally, and that I see in my "normal" classmates as we try to come to grips with what we've accepted as the price of a medical education. In the context of "URMs should not be concerned about financial barriers to a medical education" I disagree. We should all be concerned.

 

[deleted480308]

I'm all for concern.

 

[Nasrudin]

I think your attitude stinks.

Right, and/but I'd challenge us all to think about a ~20 year timeframe, where there's undergrad debt, increasing incidence of grad/SMP debt, then add $250k+. Interest accumulates always, uncertainty in repayment/forgiveness program futures, maybe add in a below average performance in med school if the student had sub-competitive stats thus residency choices are fewer, add a "lost" year for every child born to about half the graduating class, etc.

Not trying to rain on any parades, just reporting the general financial malaise I feel personally, and that I see in my "normal" classmates as we try to come to grips with what we've accepted as the price of a medical education. In the context of "URMs should not be concerned about financial barriers to a medical education" I disagree. We should all be concerned.

Wow. The negativity. I don't even...you must really hate black people. Old grumpy docs. Always hating black people.

 

[MSmentor018]

I read in one post someone commenting that DO schools don't care about recruiting URM's. Being a URM myself I was a little troubled by that. I'm a black male, which many consider an endangered specie in medicine, since most of the urm's who apply and get into med schools (MD+DO) are females. URM males and especially African American males show little interest in medicine, for whatever reason. That reminded me of a data analysis sheet that I saw somewhere about 1st year black students enrolled in DO schools.
According to that report, in 2012 AACOMAS received 15,000 applications for the DO seats. of these 15,000 applications only 132 matriculated in DO schools. The total percentage of black males in 1st year in D.O. schools in 2012 was only 1.2%, and for the black females it was a 1.4% for the total of 2.5% of all matriculants.
I have a copy of the Osteopathic Medical College Information book (2014 entering class version), so I looked at it looking for the enrollment of black students in some DO schools for the 2013 year. I found some schools with 0% black students in 1st year, like A.T. Still (Arizona), CCOM/MWU, Lecom-Bradenton, Rocky Vista, TUNCOM. Many had >1% and 1%, and some had around 10% in heavily populated area by AA (like NY, NJ, the Carolina's, GA and Ohio).
I don't really believe that the reason for this is that DO schools don't care about URM's, but rather that they cannot really compete with MD schools that fight over recruiting qualified URM students to achieve the diversity they seek in their student body. MD schools offer reputation and a lot of money in scholarships and other incentives to URM's and the qualified will have to pick between 5 or 6 scholarship offers.
In my school we are recruited by man many MD schools, but I've never seen a DO school representative on campus. We are even recruited by Caribbean med schools (Ross), and another school in Mexico, but not DO schools, which I find very odd, given the mission of DO schools in focusing on primary care, and serving the undeserved, which the AA community represents a major part of.
I met many AA med applicants who never even heard of DO schools.
I think the real reason why there are very few AA matriculants in DO schools is a combination of many failures. A few URM students interested in medicine in the first place, the qualified ones get recruited by MD and Caribbean Med schools, the DO schools don't do near enough to reach out to URM students or even to let them know that they exist.
I think DO schools do care, but feel that they cannot compete with the MD schools, but that is wrong. Some people will prefer to go to DO school if it suits them better, and if that means they get to live somewhere they like.
DO schools need to reach out more to URM's to let them know that they are there, and that they care about recruiting URM's.
What do you think?

all the DO schools you quoted are satellite campus or new schools (they're established now with strong reps) which honestly many applicants won't go to if they have many choices b/c you never know what you're getting. so if the pool of URM is small to begin with, 1% sounds right. carbib/other island schools have to recruit and recruit hard. they know if you don't get in to MD/DO your either going to wait, go to another country or carib. i can't remember all the stats but in 2006 there was 22 island schools. mind you only a few had US connections or accredited for rotations. the rest were true foreign schools but closer to the us mainland. there was also a 5th pathway program that is now closed.

it's true the DO word is still getting out. MD has been around thousands of years so it'll take a little time before DO becomes standard conversation. but numerically and politically we're a small outfit compared to MD. although to their credit the schools have done some unique things
1. such has cutting out ms4 yr if you want primary care
2. many satellite campus across the nation
3. self learning/group learning/home school type programs (PBL, SBL)
4. bridge programs for PA's
5. increasing acceptance worldwide. there still places i can't practice

regardless of race one factor still remains. build it and they will come. there will always be more applicants than slots. as for recruiting, I'd rather see my tuition/alumni money go towards better rotations and resources for students.

someone mentioned loans. yep, it sucks. keep your head up and you take it on the chin. >250k w mandatory 6.7% by the gov is terrible. what do you do....

funny enough. you're quote #2 is pretty much true.

 

[doctorold]

Well said, MSmentor108.

 

[Espadaleader]

This is simple:

HBCUs: When schools like Johns Hopkins were still segregated in the 60s, Howard, Morehouse and Meharry have been training Black students since 2 years after slavery in 1868. HBCUs are solid programs that make solid physicians and usually have lower entrance requirements and a large Black community.

Pipeline programs: SMDEP, Aspiring Docs, Leadership Alliance etc. These are programs that most minorities in medical school have heard of if not participated in. All of these programs are at MD schools.

Money: Black students have the most debt per the AAMC. DO schools for the most part cannot compete with MD financial aid, especially at schools with large endowments.

Public schools: Most public medical schools are MD. Public schools are cheaper and more recognizable.