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Dating in Med School for AAs

Discussion in 'Underrepresented in Healthcare' started by curious lately, Nov 21, 2007.

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  1. curious lately

    curious lately

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    How difficult is this especially for Black women? What do people do? Any stories or advice about being Black and dating during med school? I've heard that at some med schools, none of the Black students will date because it is like dating someone in your family which I don't get. Is that the general case? What about at HBCUs? I appreciate any opinion on this!
  2. njbmd

    njbmd Guest Moderator Emeritus

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    One of the things that you quickly realize is that on orientation day, you acquire up wards of 100 sisters and brothers in terms of your class in medical school. As the years wear on, some of your classmates will pair off and marry each other but most will date people outside of class and outside of school. There is something about wanting to "recreate" away from your daily grind and people who are inside the process won't get you far enough away.

    Many of my male classmates (regardless of race or ethnicity) just were not about dating a fellow classmate. Many people were already in serious relationships and were "off the market". In some cases since we had a dental school and law school, the mixers that were sponsored by our university were good places to meet other professional school students that were not part of our class.

    Another consideration is that your "free" time is just limited. There is something about going through the process together and spending so much time together but many of us were so "ragged out" by the day in and day out schedule, any free time was spent sleeping and catching up on laundry. One can quickly become pretty "dull" in medical school.

    Attending medical school in a small rural location, especially if your are a minority, can greatly limit potential dating. If you are in the middle of Iowa and you are not particularly into farmers, you might have to wait for holidays and vacations in order to get away and find some potential partners. In short, you can be physically and mentally isolated for the first three years of medical school. During fourth year, you can arrange to do electives in locations that are not as remote.

    In graduate school, when I was single, I made a point of getting out of my comfort zone in terms of meeting people and doing activities. I went to political rallies of candidates who were far different from my political views because I wanted to hear the "other side" and appreciate their opinions. I also went to a sporting event at least twice a month so that I could enjoy something that was far different from academics even if it was a local baseball game or the local high school football game.

    I also had a neighborhood "hang-out" where the bartenders knew my name and where I could enjoy some fellowship that didn't involve my classmates. It turned out that my "hang-out" was owned and frequented by Cuban folks who became great friends. I enjoyed the food and enjoyed their culture which was different from mine (Jamaican). I also enjoyed many mango margaritas too.

    Dating in medical school is quite difficult and time-consuming. Like anything else, if you set aside time for it, you can accomplish some good dates. If you are consumed with finding your "soul mate" during medical school, you may end up frustrated. The only thing that ends up consuming you is study.
  3. Coconut45

    Coconut45

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    I have definitely found dating opportunities scarce in medical for several reasons, most of which njbmd summarized. I haven't heard that "dating your family" theory at all. There are only two African-American males in my class, one who has horrible hygiene and one that can't carry on a normal conversation. I tried to "branch out" to the paler community, but I seem to be less marketable there, and I think I expected that. I would say unless you're at Howard, Morehouse or a school with a lot of men of color (i.e. Temple) you're going to have to find a way to broaden your horizons, which can be a great thing.
  4. RandomBlackManX

    RandomBlackManX

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    That made me chuckle. :laugh:
  5. Boogsie

    Boogsie New Member

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    The advice given in the previous post is right on point. If getting married before you graduate from medical school is a big deal for you (because you want to start a family or whatever), you should definitely go to school in a large urban area. The chances of meeting someone are significantly greater.

    However, not everyone has that choice. I am a graduate student at a small/med university in a small city. There were TWO black men in my department. I dated one of them, but it didn't work out because we are just too different (but still friends), and I was not attracted to the other one. If you want to meet a black guy, you'll have to go the black graduate student events and meet people from the business school, law school, and other schools. I think it is important if you aren't in a large city to choose a school with other graduate schools besides medicine.

    My christian friends go to church single retreats and/or ask their family or friends to set them up with people they know from church. This sometimes involves driving 2-3hrs to go on a date and hang out with friends, but they usually have a good time. However, this type of situation leads to long-distance relationship more often than not.

    Another option is the internet. Your search is expanded to not only the people affiliated with your school, but the local community--professionals such as teachers or whatever. I know people who have met their boyfriends on the internet, and it seems to be working out. I know most people are skittish about internet dating, but I would seriously consider it as a result of the positive experiences of my friends. There seem to be a lot of young black professions on the internet. What you have to keep in mind though is...are they just looking for a "good time" or are they looking for a relationship? You are going to have to figure that out whether or not you met them on the internet. It seems like a lot of guys are just about playing the field at while in school.

    And of course the last option...dating outside of your race. My boyfriend is white, and we met while I was a graduate student in the sciences and he was a law student. We met outside of the "university setting" because we were out doing things in the town, which brings me to my final point....

    No matter what you do, you have to DO something. In graduate school, the guys are less abundant, especially the black ones. It is not like college, you won't see a whole bunch of black men most of the time you look around. If you are comfortable dating someone younger (an undergrad) go for it! Sometimes, age really doesn't matter; sometimes it really does. You have to go to events in the university black community, the general black community, and the community at large. Rotate through the coffee shops and bookstores in the town/city when you are studying. Be friendly! Join a running club or intramural sports team (co-ed), DO SOMETHING. More than likely, you aren't going to be sitting in class one day and some fine black man trips over your feet and falls madly in love with you on the spot. Try to make your individual situation work for you!!

    Good Luck!
  6. curious lately

    curious lately

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    Thanks that is great advice! How did you meet your bf? I have no idea how to approach someone from another race since most tend to have preconceived notions aboutboy dating black women?
  7. dancinRN1022

    dancinRN1022

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    hiya...

    i think if you are just yourself you can find someone who completely appreciates you for who you are, i don't think ppl have pre-conceived notions of black women not ones they take seriously..wait let me rephrase that... i don't think that is a general rule..of course you have some ignorant ppl out there but you don't want to date them anyway...my bf is white as well...i met him at work as a nurse and he was a podiatry resident...we are total opposites if you look at us... i am short and very darkskinned he is very tall and pale;-) but u can't judge ppl by their appearances... i guess if you only want to date black men...which is understandable..then u may have a hard time in med school because their aren't that many minorities enrolled medical schools and i think there are more black women than black men ( i could be mistaken though)...however i think if you expand your horizons...follow the advice on this thread..go out meet ppl...you won't have a hard time at all...and my grandmother always told me that you can't make it happen u have to let it happen...if you go to school...focus on meeting new friends not just a soul mate...establishing general connections...working hard...then i bet it will all just fall into place...

    good luck :laugh:
  8. Boogsie

    Boogsie New Member

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    There are definitely some white or Asians guys out there that will not date a black girl, just like there are black or Hispanic girls who will not date white guys (I know a few of these).

    The best way to figure out what people's views are is just be friends (not good friends--you might end up painting yourself into the "friend corner") with them first. You can get a sense of their background (will their parent disown them if they bring home a black girl or have they travelled to other parts of the world (not Europe) good indicator of openness) and preferences. The one thing I usually stay away from is white or Asian guys that have dated two or more black girls. I KNOW this sounds weird, but I don't want to be with someone with a fetish for a particular race (mine!!).

    Again, in order to meet these people (white, black, whatever) you have to go out. I met my bf in a coffee shop that was really crowded so we had a share a table (note: I could have picked other tables to share, but I choose that one because I wanted to meet him). We started talking, he asked me out on a date for two days later (foreign movie festival), and that was that.

    The supermarket is another good place to meet people. You see someone stopped in the aisle, and walk up next to them and ask for a suggestion in the area they are looking at: pasta sauce, ice cream, bananas (ie: I never know which bananas to pick, what's your technique?). Play dumb while they explain it to you!! However, you cannot look for someone all the time. Sometimes guys try this on me in the supermarket and I just suggest something and walk away. I'm just there to really shop at that time. You are going to win and lose some!!

    In my life, about 25% of the guys I have dated have been black, one was Asian, and the rest white. This is probably as a result of my limited choices in high school (13 black people total/320 students), college (60/1800), and graduate school (5/95). My parents have accepted a long time ago that I will probably marry a white guy. In fact, my father told me this a few years ago. Obviously, I would prefer, all things being equal, to be with a black man, but it seems like that is just not going to happen. I do get tired of the dirty looks from older white men for corrupting their youth and older black men for dating outside our race.

    To sum up this long post, just be open. People can sense that, and you will be more approachable. I know some people think that a girl should not ask a guy out, but I don't believe in this. With everything else in your life (classes, jobs, med school), you have gone after (not necessarily aggressively) what you want. But when it comes to the people you are going to date, you are just going to wait for something to happen TO you? That is crazy to me. Ask people out for coffee in the afternoon, its less pressure and more relaxed. You might come out of it feeling like this person is more likely to be your friend than anything else, or you may find that you really like him.

    If you don't mind me asking, what has your dating history been like?
  9. curious lately

    curious lately

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    I have dated only black men but not necessarily by choice. White men never approach me and I find I have never even had close white male friends. I have a lot of anxiety about approaching white men because of what I think they'll think of me just because of my skin color- that I'm overly sexual, aggressive and the other many negative stereotypes about black women. I'm pretty cool, attractive and good natured but I'm also very proud of my heritage and beliefs. I must date someone who has similar principles (ie., No republicans). I went to predominantly white private schools my whole life so I'm comfortable being around white people and have female friends of all races. I have been accepted to an HBCU and am having a hard time choosing between that and another school I like. I am worried about where I would fit in best and be happy. I also don't want to be single forever. :). That said is there something I can do to make me appear more receptive to men from other races? I don't like the idea of getting rejected in public - it has never happened with a black guy but I'm convinced that's what would happen if I approach a white guy. Unfortunately I haven't approached many guys at all so my game is probably lame :)
  10. Boogsie

    Boogsie New Member

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    People stereotype other people no matter what they look like--blonds are dumb, Asians girls are prude, black girls are overly sexual, Hispanics are emotional. However, you know those stereotypes just aren't true, so put them out of your mind because I seriously doubt that is what stops white guys from asking out black girls. When I talk to my white guy friends, the reason they usually are apprehensive about asking a pretty black girl (such as yourself) out is that they think they will be denied because they are white. People are more likely to ask someone of a different race out if they see interracial couples around. I think that's why there are so many white guy/Asian girl couples. One just perpetuates the other.

    You should be proud of your heritage and beliefs. Those are what define you. If you feel like you are hiding or con promising your beliefs to be with someone, that is not a healthy relationship. I talk about "black" issues whenever I feel like it with my bf. I even asked him, "Why are white people so crazy?" Just like I would with a black bf. Nothing should change.

    My super-Afrocentric friend was dating a white guy for a long time. I was really surprised about this because it seemed like they would have nothing in common. In fact they did, more than with her current black bf. She met her ex at a jazz club when he asked her to dance. Now, this was pretty bold because a)the jazz club had a lot of black men in it, b) he couldn't really dance, and c) by her dreads, head wraps, and other accessories so looks like she should be at a black power protest every day. He was confident and put himself out there, and he was rewarded (her phone number) for his actions. Not all guys (of any race) would do this. They are just as afraid of being denied as we are. You should keep that in mind.



    I only applied to school in urban areas (except for UVa) because I'm sick of being the only black person I see (only in the mirror) on a regular basis. I think its good that you are taking into account the social makeup of the school (HBCU vs. mostly white) you will be attending. However, med school is only four years so if that other school is markedly better, for whatever reason, you should still seriously consider going there. Even if you attend a HBCU, you still might end up single. Maybe you won't like any of the guys, they might be involved with someone else already, or whatever. You might end up meeting some white guy on the way to school one day and date him throughout school. There is no way to know the future, all you can do is improve your odds.

    Here is my advice (you can take it or leave it...I definitely don't take my own sometimes):

    All things being equal, go to the HBCU, you'll probably date at least one person in the four years that you are there. It seems like you are not really comfortable with the idea of dating a white guy, and since not being single is important to you, you will be putting yourself at a disadvantage by attending a mostly white school or...

    Go to the other school, and start Internet dating. You can get your feet wet a little at a time through chatting online, and then meet them. For the black guys you meet, even better, for the white guys, you can ease into it. Maybe start now in your area or in the area around the school. See who you meet. My friend just moved in NYC for residency, but was having trouble meeting guys because of her hours, location, and shyness. She went online (match.com) and meet a few people, but really ended up connecting with a resident at a different hospital and field, and now they are dating!!!

    Do you approach guys ? (initiate a conversation at a bookstore, coffeeshop, club, bar, store, etc.)
    How do you usually do it? (lets talk about your game)
    Do you think your thoughts on it being more likely you are rejected by a white guy than black have do with self-esteem issues? (I don't mean this in a weird way. Dating is hard on your self-esteem, and stepping outside of your comfort zone is HARD).
    Are you at all worried that you won't fit in at a HBCU because of your longtime experience being the minority in school?


    Anything is possible, but not everything is probable. Increase your odds in ways you feel OK about.
  11. dancinRN1022

    dancinRN1022

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    hiya...

    that is so funny...it completely turns me off if a white guy ever approached me saying... i really love black girls...:laugh:for my bfs who were white i was the only black girl they ever dated and they all ended up being two-three year relationships... anyway my friends never understand that rule about me...so its funny that u expressed the same thing...

    ooh now back to the initial thread..curious... i don't think you will have such a hard time...how old are you?? why are u suddenly worried about this?? u are beautiful, smart, ambitious i don't even have to see you in order to know this...you will meet ppl when the time is right...and if you just don't want to be bored until you meet your soul mate then just make yourself approachable, ask ppl to study with you...join clubs, go to social functions, go to clubs, go to parties...most ppl at medial school are looking to make the same connections, some will be married and have a family but most will be starting over again too...yes there are white guys who won't date black girls...there are black guys who don't like skinny girls...there are ppl who have their preferences...but my three of my five best friends are white males one of them has never dated a black girl and we talked about why and he said its obviously not because he doesn't like them or think they are attractive its because he is afraid we wouldn't like him and some ppl grew up in places where it just didn't happen

    ...and there is nothing wrong with asking a guy out...just make sure he is single first and more likely than not you won't get turned down..and if so...rejection stings alittle...but think about all the guys that you turn down...u don't think they are all losers do you? just ppl you aren't attracted to...so if someone turns you down then it just means you weren't their type...but most guys i think will be very impressed with a girl taking that initiative... i have asked guys out before...one would argue that i asked my current boyfriend out almost two years ago....we differ on how this conversation went:laugh:...but i def made it known to him that i wanted to date him...:laugh:

    in the end...you will have a social life in med school...just be yourself...i can't tell you which school to pick... i loved howard soo much but i haven't been in that kind of setting since junior high school...i think what boogsie said was right...i think i have become used to being a minority its a weird thought process behind it...but go where your heart tells you to go...i think prospective dating partners is a factor u should use when choosing schools...but it shouldn't be that great of a factor...because there will always be ppl outside of school..residents, doctors, nurses, techs, tons of ppl around you..unless you are choosing between howard and a school in kansas...then my opinion changes;-)

    what an interesting topic...good luck to you and whatever you choose!! i cant wait to hear back from you in a year and you will realize that it wasn't that hard at all...
  12. curious lately

    curious lately

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    Thanks Boogsie! Here are the answers:

    Do you approach guys ? (initiate a conversation at a bookstore, coffeeshop, club, bar, store, etc.)

    Yes, I have approached guys before and introduced myself.

    How do you usually do it? (lets talk about your game)

    Usually I just say something about me, like why I'm in the bookstore or conference etc. and ask them the same question. I smile a lot and try to guage their interest. The last time I approached a guy, I said that I was new to the area (which was true) and looking for someone to hang out with and show me the town. If they're interested, they usually respond and it is easy to continue from there.

    Do you think your thoughts on it being more likely you are rejected by a white guy than black have do with self-esteem issues? (I don't mean this in a weird way. Dating is hard on your self-esteem, and stepping outside of your comfort zone is HARD).

    Perhaps, there is a part of me that thinks how could I have a chance with an attractive white guy, he would totally go for an attractive girl of his race. Nonetheless, I'm a pretty confident person. I think it's more of a comfort thing. I'm used to dealing with Black guys, it's all I know so it's pretty easy to predict how they will react. With White guys since I've had no friends and never approached them, it's such a mystery to me. I guess that makes me feel a little inadequate when approaching them because I could be doing it "wrong" so to speak. I know this doesn't make sense because they are both people and not inherently different, but I'm afraid I will seem awkward because I am anxious about it.

    Are you at all worried that you won't fit in at a HBCU because of your longtime experience being the minority in school?

    I am worried about that. Likewise I am worried that at a top tier white school, the environment will be as it has been the rest of my life, lonely and competitive. I don't mind the competition- it's the lonely part that kinda sucks.
  13. curious lately

    curious lately

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    Hey dancinRN - thanks for the sweet words! I really admire the fact that you have been able to make friends of all kinds. The input you have given is very helpful - I realize that some white guys might be just as terrified or anxious about me rejecting them as I am about them rejecting me! I definitely look forward to just immersing myself in activities and groups that are of interest to me no matter what medical school I go to. Let's hope the saying that you'll find someone when you least expect it holds true. Besides, I'm sure I'll have plenty of studying to occupy my time next year while I'm waiting for that soulmate. I am 22 years old as of tomorrow, so it's not a dire situation (yet).
  14. Savantrice

    Savantrice Junior Member

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    man. u guys have my head spinning. i'm really concerned about this myself, i've only dated black guys (not really that attracted to white/asians)...and i'm a non-trad (27)...

    i'm matriculating next year to a school in a mid-size college town....maybe i should work on my match.com profile now. :(
  15. Boogsie

    Boogsie New Member

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    Savantrice, I'm sorry about making you worried. I think that you probably will have no problem finding someone to be in a relationship with as long as you are open & out there (as discussed previously). However, I do think, as professional black women, we will have a hard time getting married in the next ten years.

    As for you, don't jump right into internet dating. You might get to school and find more than a few guys you won't mind dating. Be positive. Match.com should be the last option...

    I've been thinking about this topic for a long time. I would like to be married by the time I turn 40 (14 years from now), but is that really a realistic goal? I'm not sure.

    Our dating pool is limited: many of us won't date men who haven't graduated from college or have children already. Many men don't want to be with women who make significantly more than they do, so where does that leave us?

    Some good news for black/black relationships: I talked to my friend last night. She is doing her residency out west in a town with a smaller black population that she was used to (NYC). She met a guy at a bar/lounge very popular with young black professionals. He's 34 owns his own business and seems like an awesome mature man. (Problem for some women: He has a six year old child. My friend is OK with this, but I would not be. I'm not interested in being a stepmom). They seem to be really happy together.

    Some good news for interracial-relationships: I know two young black professional women who got engaged this year: one works for the gov't and is marrying her white bf she met in college (she's 26) and the other is marrying her white bf she meet while she was an associate at a law firm (she's 29).

    With that being said, there are many women who don't ever want to be married, and I think professional woman are more likely to fall into this group because they have something else to be "happy for" in life--their career. I wish I was like that, really!!

    Check out this article:
    From washingtonpost.com...

    'Marriage Is for White People' By Joy Jone Sunday, March 26, 2006; B01

    I grew up in a time when two-parent families were still the norm, in both black and white America. Then, as an adult, I saw divorce become more commonplace, then almost a rite of passage. Today it would appear that many -- particularly in the black community -- have dispensed with marriage altogether.

    But as a black woman, I have witnessed the outrage of girlfriends when the ex failed to show up for his weekend with the kids, and I've seen the disappointment of children who missed having a dad around. Having enjoyed a close relationship with my own father, I made a conscious decision that I wanted a husband, not a live-in boyfriend and not a "baby's daddy," when it came my time to mate and marry.

    My time never came.

    For years, I wondered why not. And then some 12-year-olds enlightened me.

    "Marriage is for white people."

    That's what one of my students told me some years back when I taught a career exploration class for sixth-graders at an elementary school in Southeast Washington. I was pleasantly surprised when the boys in the class stated that being a good father was a very important goal to them, more meaningful than making money or having a fancy title.

    "That's wonderful!" I told my class. "I think I'll invite some couples in to talk about being married and rearing children."

    "Oh, no," objected one student. "We're not interested in the part about marriage. Only about how to be good fathers."

    And that's when the other boy chimed in, speaking as if the words left a nasty taste in his mouth: "Marriage is for white people."

    He's right. At least statistically. The marriage rate for African Americans has been dropping since the 1960s, and today, we have the lowest marriage rate of any racial group in the United States. In 2001, according to the U.S. Census, 43.3 percent of black men and 41.9 percent of black women in America had never been married, in contrast to 27.4 percent and 20.7 percent respectively for whites. African American women are the least likely in our society to marry. In the period between 1970 and 2001, the overall marriage rate in the United States declined by 17 percent; but for blacks, it fell by 34 percent. Such statistics have caused Howard University relationship therapist Audrey Chapman to point out that African Americans are the most uncoupled people in the country.

    For the rest: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/25/AR2006032500029_pf.html


    :thumbup: I would love to hear how other people feel about this topic. My friends and I talk about this every month or so. I think my friends who only date black men are more concerned about it than those in our group that graze the pasture a little more freely.
  16. RandomBlackManX

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    From a black male perspective, I will date anyone of any color.

    In my experiences since high school, I haven't come across too many black females with similar goals and/or common values as mine. I don't fit the ghetto mold and am not big into "spitting game" etc, so thus I get excluded from a large portion of the african american dating pool. I use to get chastised for this back in high school (and perhaps even now), but after some serious self-reflection (and reading "Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria? By Beverly Tatum, PhD), I moved on and do my own thing.

    On a related topic, I am a pretty active member in my local MAPS chapter (Minority Assocation of Pre-Health Students). Ironically enough, some of the black females in the club say they get extremely angry when they see a 'successful' black male dating outside of their race due to the scarity of 'sucessful' black males in the dating pool. I am all about giving back to the black community and am very passionate about increasing underrepresented minorities in medicine in addition to increasing underrepresented minoritiy patients in clinical research. Nevertheless, I am not going to date on the sole basis of race of alone. That said, I don't know what they would have me do.

    What do you guys (or rather, gals) think?
  17. phoenix0610

    phoenix0610

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    This makes me extremely sad. You mean to tell me you haven't met any goal oriented, sincere, sweet black females since you've been in high school?? Given the proportions (male/female) of black people in higher education and professional schools I find that very hard to believe--there are waaaaay more of us than there are of you! It's been my experience (and it's just that--my experience) that black males are getting more and more...afraid?? to approach a successful black woman. It's like we have to fall all over you before you give us the time of day, and for the life of me I don't understand why. I could wax poetically on all the psychosocial implications, culture, etc...but I dont want to...I just want to know why, black men, why??? If I sound a little fanatical, its because maybe I am, cause the situation is really out of control!
  18. aaj117

    aaj117

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    I am in a similar position. I have dated black, white, and hispanic males and females (i am bisexual), and have no problem doing so. I am just inherently more attracted to black people, I think. I sometimes think it's harder, as i am mixed, because many black people who do only date within their race don't really see me as black because I am fairly, well, yellow. I hate it.
    Anyway, my ex boyfriend of three years is a very dark skinned black male with a good amount of ambition. He sounds fairly similar to you, in the "does not fit the ghetto mold" way...he is well spoken and dresses neatly and professionally. For years, people we know have called him "the whitest black man they know", which he (of course!) takes rather offensively-- just because he has good grammar and knows how to dress, doesn't mean that he is trying to be white, and he's pretty sick of people thinking that. How could he not be? From what you describe, you are that type of black man that every woman dreams of meeting, but just isn't common enough. So you have to understand those MAPS women feeling that way at least a little bit; it's strange when you really sit down and think about it, but instinctually when you see something like that, i can see how it's frustrating.
  19. flaahless

    flaahless

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    I kind of understand where RandomBlackManX is coming from. I went to a HS with a good number of black people, and my two long term girlfriends were black. But in college, I didn't date any black women. Why? Beats me. Possibly because there aren't very many black women who are science majors at my school, or because other women seemed to get to me first. I don't know.

    As far as the fear to approach black women, I don't know if it's fear or what, but from a dude's perspective, its like you REALLY gotta bring your A game. I'm not sure why I feel like I have to try harder, but daah well. I'll continue to try.
  20. RandomBlackManX

    RandomBlackManX

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    It's the truth as sad as it may be. I am not afraid of approaching a successful black woman, there merely are none to approach. I am sorry if you find it hard to believe me; I have no reason to lie on an anonymous internet forum. I am just expressing my personal experiences. (Also, the black females who I have met who are "goal oriented, sincere, sweet" are already taken). Perhaps things will change once I matriculate into medical school. C'est la vie.
  21. RandomBlackManX

    RandomBlackManX

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    Flaahless's experience is nearly identical to mine. I don't think I could have expressed it better.
  22. flaahless

    flaahless

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    Word. :thumbdown:
  23. LovelyMD

    LovelyMD Moderator Emeritus

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    Haha, I agree with this. I'm black and asian, yet I find myself more physically attracted to black people. It's probably a product of my upbringing since I did grow up in a predominantly black community. That said, I do find guys of other races attractive, but then I don't know how to approach them because I'm new to 1) approaching guys on my own, and 2) dating guys who aren't black.

    In addition, I do feel the need to be careful of guys who have fetishes (as I think Boogsie brought up). I definitely know guys (including black guys) who are attracted to me because I'm an "Other"- it's not too often you find someone of my mix, so they find me exotic and just want to know what it's like to be with someone like me.
  24. Boogsie

    Boogsie New Member

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    I can totally see where flaahles and RandomBlackManX can coming from.
    From a woman's perspective it probably seems like there are so many great professional black woman just around everywhere, but it that really true? I'm not sure. I was the only black biochemistry major in college and one of three black women when I joined my graduate program. As I mentioned before, there were two black men when I joined. Five years later, two black women (one is married and one has a bf) and one black man (single). So just looking in our department, you can see why a black guy may feel like an option he NEEDS to explore is a white woman.

    However, I can see why the MAPS women and phoenix0610 feel the way they do.
    In the general black population, more women then men are going to college and getting graduate degrees, so in theory if we were only dating each other, then black men should be like kids in candy stores because the ratio is skewed in your favor. In addition, we have to remember the cultural indications for dating outside of your race. Is it really because you have no preference or is it a status thing. You've reached the top because as a black man you have a blond hair/blue-eyed woman on your arm.

    As for the approach: When approaching a black man or going out on a date, I feel like I have to bring my A game as well. My hair has to be done, my clothes looking good, my nails as least filed, and cute shoes. For approaching a white guy, I might be approaching the six-week mark (maybe seven) for my perm and my outfit is OK, but I'm still going to go for it. I don't know why that is, and that may be why I have dated so few black men vs white, I don't have the energy to look good a lot of the time. I know this is crazy, but its just me!!!

    I have also found in a few cases (six) black men, that before thirty, you guys just aren't interested in a serious relationship. I have talked to black women in medical school around men in medical school, and the women were quick to call some of the guys out for dating multiple women at a time. The guys say, hey, I'm young, etc. What does that have anything to do with it??

    I've also experience that a FEW black men are arrogant because they have achieved so much and they KNOW they are the pick of the litter. There is this sense of entitlement there for achievement that I just don't see in many white guys. (These are just my experiences with a few men, but I often talk to women who feel they have noticed the same thing).

    Just want to say...I love this discussion!
  25. flaahless

    flaahless

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    That is so ironic because I feel the same way towards black women! Like, before I even think about approaching them my lineup has to be on point, beard perfectly trimmed, my air ones gotta be CLEAN, jeans gotta be crisp etc. But for other women, I'll holla in dirty reeboks and a mismatched outfit. Why? Beats me. But from my experiences, it seems that other women pursue me more than black women. In fact, black women don't pursue me. Which I don't really mind because I'll go after them. But the problem comes when so many other women are getting at me that A. It's difficult to turn them down and B. They occupy a great deal of my time and preclude me from going after black women.

    Don't get me wrong, I love black women... A LOT! But I see it kind of like enzyme kinetics, the reaction that requires the least amount of energy is most favorable. And you would think that the "reaction" with black women would require the least amount of energy, but unfortunately it doesn't. Weird.

    And word, this is an awesome discussion.
  26. phoenix0610

    phoenix0610

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    Flaaahless me too! It's a discussion that needs to be had, with intelligent, level minded young people, not crazy and sensationalized like you see in the media...as in most situations of conflict their seems to be some major MISCOMMUNICATION going on...I just want to know if A. I'm the only person out there that feels the way I do (which I see I am not) and B. what are we going to do about it??? I bring my A game regardless :cool: so I can't really relate with the whole trying harder to impress black men thing, but deep down I'm just really looking to make a human connection with someone--why are people in general so afraid to just be out there, and genuine and real--If you're feeling me and I'm feeling you why does it have to be this big game??
  27. freelove

    freelove MS-12....

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    Well, when you put it like this, I can understand. I go to an HBCU where the male to female ratio is about 1:2.... so the "substrate" is in saturation I guess??? lol. Guys here get a lot of play. Guys here who are smart, goal-oriented, and seem to be going somewhere in life get a lot more play. I have basically stopped dating at my current institution because I refuse to be 1 of 3 or 4 or more females bending over their back trying to get some dude's attention, and some males just don't appreciate that, lol. Like, I don't mind approaching a guy, or pursuing for that matter, but there has to be a limit, and some amount reciprocity... I am not going to cook for or do the laundry of another grown man on regular basis if we are not married. I'm sorry. :smuggrin:

    That being said, I do sense that some males maybe a little intimidated by the thought of approaching a "successful" black female who has it all together. You feel like you have to bring your "A" game, and honestly, you should. I wouldn't bring anything less to any person I approach, no matter what race he is, but then again, I don't deal very well with rejection. The situation reminds me of this analogy that someone sent me... you have to climb pretty high to get to the apples on top of the tree. Yes, there are apples that will fall, and will be easy to pick up. But generally, they'll be a little bruised because of the fall, or there will be a lil' dirt on 'em... you get what I'm saying... lmao.

    Anyways, us "apples" at the top of the tree are just that much better IMO, and worth the climb. Maybe if you had made the climb a couple of years ago, you wouldn't have to be participating in this discussion... you'd be wife'd up already. :D
  28. Boogsie

    Boogsie New Member

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    I think I feel that I need to bring my A game with black men because they know what I "should" look like. They notice if you need a perm or you left your braids in a little too long vs. white guys who have no clue. When I say to my bf (who is white) that I need a perm, he says, "really, it looks good to me." NOW, when I said that to a black ex bf, he said, "yeah, girl you do," which I thought was hilarious actually. Black guys grow up around black women mostly, so they know about these things. I wrap my hair and use a scarf at night before I go to sleep. When I first starting staying over by bfs house, he said, "what's that on your head?" I'm sure a black guy would not ask that.

    I don't feel as though I need to impress black guys more, but I think what I wear and how I look seem to matter more in black culture. Just looking around at a black-tie optional holiday party I went to last weekend, the black people were more "dressed up" than the some of the white people. It wasn't that noticeable, but I know as a black woman, I wouldn't DREAM of wearing some of the outfits I saw the other people wearing to a BTO party.

    My friend went to a HBCU for undergrad, and she said people would really go all out to go to class everyday. Now, there were a few, like her, who would wear whatever, but it seemed like image really mattered on her campus.


    People have SO MUCH BAGGAGE that makes them scared to put themselves out there, and over time being vulnerable becomes harder and harder. When was the last time any of us has really done that? Did you think about it HARD before you did? I sure did. For people it is difficult for them to say, "I want to be with just you. We aren't going to see other people. We are only going to see each other" because they feel like they will come off as needy. While for some, its just insecurity about body image, education, family, or whatever. My white friend is terrified of dating because people will find out about her family, and she thinks she will be rejected. Why? Her brother and sister were alcoholics and drug addicts and were in rehab, but looking for the outside you would think her very wealthy cute family was perfect. Everyone has something they are scared about revealing...

    The best way to avoid "games" is not to play them and not to tolerate them. If people think its OK, then it is. If they know from jump that its not, then its not.
  29. flaahless

    flaahless

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    I couldn't have said this any better. Especially the hair thing. Like with my white ex, i'd go 3 or 4 weeks without getting a cut and would look grimey with my hair all long and nappy and my hairline all grown out. But she said she liked it.

    Now my black girlfriend would subtly suggest that I get a cut when my hair would get out of control. Hahaha. It it what it is.

    And I agree with the dress too. In So Cal, things are very chill. The people are laid back and the dress is very casual. However, if I go to a black function, you better believe I'm getting a cut and ironing my clothes. Why, because black people tend to dress to impress and in an environment such as southern cali, where most non-black people are just wearing whatever, if you are black and aren't dressed up then you really stand out.

    However, why should I look a certain way? Sometimes I don't feel like getting dressed up and feel like lounging in the same tee I've worn for 2 days. That's how I feel the majority of the time. And as I sit here and type this in the same outfit I wore yesterday, and 2 weeks past due for a haircut, I wouldn't dare try to holla at a black girl right now. It really is unfortunate.
  30. RandomBlackManX

    RandomBlackManX

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    For me also, I just flat out don't have time to always be dressed to impress etc. With the exception of this year (and it's not really a exception because of interviews), I have usually been on the grind. I don't have time to be playing games like phoenix mentioned when I am trying to balance grades, MCAT, school functions, volunteering, while also maintaining some semblance of a normal life (as normal as a premed's life gets).

    I am all about getting to know someone by first being their friend and seeing where the relationship goes from there. Unfortunately, that's initially not enough for most people, and at this point in my life, I can't invest a significant amount of resources in only trying to obtain a good catch. Don't get me wrong though, I will do whatever it takes to keep her though, I just need to be met halfway :).
  31. freelove

    freelove MS-12....

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    I agree with most of what you're saying.

    My school is a huge fashion show, but anyone's involvement in it is a personal choice. I am by no means a flashy dresser, but I don't feel like that makes me any less attractive or approachable to anyone. I just don't put that much pressure on myself in that respect. Honestly, my biggest concern in when I'm getting dressed in the morning is 1.) Getting to class on time, and 2.) Making sure I'm clean and presentable when I get there. Though I understand that some people tend to place more of an emphasis on the superficial and the physical, I've discovered that cute clothes and a well made up face is just an easy way to cover up some other fault or insecurity.

    I've only dated black people (and I'm open to dating other races, but the opportunity just hasn't presented itself yet lol), most of my friends are black and I go to an HBCU. Yes looks are a big deal, but I don't think its as big of a deal as some people seem to think on this thread. But that's just my experience, and I'm really laid-back. Even though I don't think its that big of a deal, I can see why someone would want to look their best if they're still trying to meet someone... I guess. But honestly, I have been comfortable enough with all my SO's to go out with them looking less than fly. And to hang out with them in a grungy old T-shirt, some raggedy shorts, and nappy hair :)laugh:) ... I've done this with multiple people on multiple occasions. And most of them started out with us just being friends so they had the opportunity to see me on my good days... and on my bad ones, lol. But at least I know that they're with with me for more than just my looks, so its nothing serious. I mean, yes black men do know what nice hair is supposed to look like, but they have sisters, aunts, mothers and platonic friends they love so they should be mature enough to know that even the best of us have our off-days.

    in regards to dating, its not just about being an all-around cool and attractive person, its about being confident and secure enough in yourself to show that to other people. As long as your physical stuff isn't to the point of being distracting from your other numerous strengths (in other words, having your basic hygiene straight is a must, not an option), you really should be fine when approaching anyone of any race, black people are no exception. When I say someone should bring their A game, I mean that they should put their best foot forward on all fronts, whether it be the personality, career, or the physical. A great catch is more than just a cute face and honestly, is someone who would dismiss you just because you aren't rockin' the cleanest outfit, or your hair isn't just right the type of person you would want to be involved with anyway?

    But maybe I'm different. I don't know what your experiences have been with black dating. But I think that having on the wrong pair of shoes or a less than clean haircut has to be one of the worst reasons EVER for deciding not to approach someone.
  32. phoenix0610

    phoenix0610

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    I really feel you echo my sentiments right on--if I'm not cute enough in my jeans and t-shirt then I really don't want to be bothered:hardy: It kind of goes back to what I was saying about people just being open, and secure and confident enough in themselves to just get to know somebody and see where it goes from there...
  33. flaahless

    flaahless

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    I agree with you and Phoenix and I wish there were more women like you out where I am. Unfortunately, it's not like that. I live in superficial Los Angeles, and I meet most of the black women I talk to at superficial clubs where everyone is on some fake Hollywood-ish. Unfortunately, they do care about whether the air ones are CLEAN, and not like kinda white, I mean BRIGHT white.

    I've tried to meet women on campus but it's difficult because there are very few black science majors. Most of the black people at my school are majoring in business, psych or black studies, which is on the opposite side of campus. So the only time I really had to meet black women were at clubs or bars. It's quite unfortunate.

    I just wish I were in a position to meet more black women like yall.
  34. UVABranch

    UVABranch one of 6000

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    I don't exactly know what the age breakdown is in this discussion…but it's interesting nonetheless. No need to beat a dead horse, and repeat what has already been said, but I do have a question. Black or White, male or female wouldn't you want someone who deserves your A game? I mean, I'm not saying you have to be on the catwalk 24/7 but looking nice occasionally (or more often than not if you choose) shouldn't be a chore. I don't think you have to be dressed up, or have a perm to be your best, but I dunno, I want someone who makes me want to be better (even if they don't think I need to). Sure there should be a point in time when "I am what I am, and I be what I be" and that's all good to, but wanting/demanding excellence seems pretty normal...I mean we demand it in our education, our experiences, our friends...we want our family and loved one's to be the best they can, why not want the same in a partner? Not to mention our career will definitely demand this of us.

    As for dressy not dressy...it depends on a) your definition and b) your perspective. I went to a school where the people (generally the white people) dressed up for football games as a part of tradition. The motto, if we can't beat you we'll look better than you. People attended class in their cardigans, and pearls as a part of regular fair and attended horse races (foxfield...albeit totally drunk and often sloppy!). There was a different style of dressy for black students. I know people who went to Howard and girls wore furs to class (I wouldn't mind if I had one...who am I to judge). While we didn't get down like that at my school, nice pants, a cute top and some heels were not the usual fair...the school was very casual so jeans timbs and a top were sufficient to be "cute." Things are different now, and in general heels and such are more common...and I guess timbs have been replaced by uggs, but you get my drift. "We" had *one* occasion all year to get dressed up; the winter ball/que ball. Some would not step up to the plate wearing the same frat/club attire from the weekend before, others really went all out. I appreciated this because there were no other opportunities for us to gather in our best. Other groups, (asian and white) regularly had formals, and they were not viewed like dressing up is an image thing or a potential negative/less than desirable. Anyway, I still don't have the opportunity to get really dressy (ball gown) unless I attend the rare NBLSA event, or formal business events with family, or a wedding. Don't get me wrong, I'll still be just as comfortable in some jeans uggs and sweater/shirt, I just would hope the man I'm with likes both just the same...and brings his A game (because I'm gonna bring mine...if I like him ;)). I think it really comes down to what you project (in med school and beyond). If you project good qualities (self respect, hygiene, confidence, kindness, etc) you shouldn't have problems finding someone. I think Carrie (Bradshaw) said it best:
    "Later that day I got to thinking about relationships. There are those that open you up to something new and exotic, those that are old and familiar, those that bring up lots of questions, those that bring you somewhere unexpected, those that bring you far from where you started, and those that bring you back. But the most exciting, challenging and significant relationship of all is the one you have with yourself. And if you can find someone to love the you you love, well, that's just fabulous"
  35. flaahless

    flaahless

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    I think I'm being misunderstood on the dressing to impress thing.

    Don't get me wrong, I always dressed up when I went out on the weeknds, that's a no brainer. But I never got down with the dressing up to go to class thing. I was a fulltime microbiology major, I researched 20+ hours a week and had a job. Needless to say, I wasn't trying to wake up early in the morning for my 8 o'clock lab and throw on something nice. And if I was two weeks past due for a haircut, my bad, but I had other obligations.

    When I was just chilling on campus, most likely tired, I would be in some dirty reeboks and a worn Tee. So I was unable to always be dressed to impress when I met women on campus and I would get a LOT more play from non-black women. They would start casual conversation with me and one thing would lead to another. But the black women seemed to expect me to bring my A game to campus when I was just trying to stay awake.

    It just seemed that other women were more willing to approach me and take the time to get to know me, and would be more receptive when I'd say something to them in line at Taco Bell. I'm a fun guy, I think. I tell a lot of jokes, pretty outgoing. But it was like I couldn't even make it onto the radar of black women unless I was dressed up at the club.

    Now if I can pick up 4-6 other women a week on campus in my low-key everyday attire, then it was like competitive inhibition and the sistas were outnumbered. Hahaha forreal though. I'm sorry, but the reaction that requires the least amount of energy is most favorable.
  36. phoenix0610

    phoenix0610

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  37. phoenix0610

    phoenix0610

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  38. njbmd

    njbmd Guest Moderator Emeritus

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    The rule is called, "I don't want to be your "Black Experience/Experiment" and I can totally relate to this too. :laugh:
  39. MSKalltheway

    MSKalltheway I got the magic stick

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    This takes me back to a story from high school. Me and my boys were at lunch, watching one of the, er, um, prettier black girls walking up the stairs. About half of them were white, and the other half of us were black (at the lunch table). In response to our oogling (sp?), one of the white guys (one of my best friends to this day) says:

    "Man, I sure love black girls."

    Another one of the white guys at the table responds by saying:

    "Too bad they don't love you!"

    We were all cracking up, and i still laugh about that to this day :laugh:

    Now, you have a response if a white guy ever says that to you!
  40. da me ka don

    da me ka don Not in your P.I.'s lab!

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    awww just keep the good faith.
  41. Boogsie

    Boogsie New Member

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    I agree with you in theory. Because there are so few "datable" black guys around, there so much for competition for them. As a result, just having my basic hygiene down isn't enough. Being a little more done makes me feel for confident when I'm approaching a black guy. Maybe that's my own insecurity. The opposite is true for white guys though. Many of them believe that black girls are out of their league, so I don't believe they respond as well when a black girl is a little more dressed up.

    My A game for both races should be the same, but its not. My A game for black men may make me seem inaccessible for white men, while by A game for white men makes me seem to homely for black men (especially with the competition out there)!!

    Plus, we all like to tell ourselves that looks don't matter, but that isn't true. If looks didn't matter, I would have could have a very nice black bf right now. However, I'm just not attracted to the guy I'm thinking of. I also don't want someone who always looks like a bum when I know they can look better with a few minor steps. I love eating out at nice restaurants, for instance. I was dating one black guy who ALWAYS wore sneakers, even to a pretty nice place. That really annoyed me, and when I asked him about it, he said that was his style. Needless to say, OUR styles were not compatible, and he was relieved of his duties as my bf shortly thereafter.
  42. njbmd

    njbmd Guest Moderator Emeritus

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    Just for fun, I get hit on all the time in the gym of all places. I guess there is something about a fairly tall (I am 5'8") Jamaican woman pumping iron (I am benching 125 lbs and leg pressing 400 lbs now) that brings all sorts of guys my way. I have been pumping iron for about four years now and I get "hit on" by all races and ethnicities as I have some great definition in my arms and legs. I tend not to be attracted to Asian men (too small) but I love dark men of any ethnicity, the taller the better.

    Pumping iron is a great way to let off stress from school and meet loads of folks. It's been good for my discipline too.
  43. I-Baby

    I-Baby Scared Straight

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  44. chocomorsel

    chocomorsel Senior Member

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    I am one of those women who does get a little angry when I see a successful black man with "other" women. I have dated outside of my race back when I was in my teens and early twenties. My first love was white. As I got older, I came to realize that I wanted a black man and little black kids. As a black woman, I believe that our choices are limited. I mean, it's not like whites, hispanics and asians are chasing after us as they are their female counterparts of the same shade or even lighter shades than we are. My ideal situation would be to marry a black man and have little black babies. I want an educated, nice, man with a good job whom I find attractive. But there are few black men like this, and many of these know that they are the cream of the crop and can have their pick of white, brown, black. So they are dating whomever, while we are looking to date only them. It sucks, because I can think of 5 intelligent successful black men(3 MD's and 2 RN's) married to 4 white women and and 1 indian woman that I know, while there are many of us successful cute women still single. In fact one of them a few years back told me that he was looking for a woman who had alot going for them, and all the black women he dated didn't have much going for them. My response, "At 20-21 years of age, how many women in general have their **** together, regardless of race?" Anyway, getting off my soap box. My family tells me I'm racist, my standards are too high and I'm too straightforward with people. So it's likely that I will be single for a long time, if not life.

    My question is this, why aren't our black men sticking with us as we are with them? What the heck are you successful you men looking for that we are lacking? Do we have to be the ones chasing after the successful black men since they such a hot commodity? Because I will approach a black man, but hell it is tough having to compete with the white/hispanic women.

    Oh, and the answer to the OP's question, yes girl, it is hard. At least it is for me. I was the one black chick in medschool who used to hang around all the whites first year, and have no problem with them for the most part, but it's not like they are interested in asking me out.
  45. gostudy

    gostudy Dead Giveaway

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    Because many black women need to stop all of their hatin.
  46. RandomBlackManX

    RandomBlackManX

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    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Wow. :corny:
  47. freelove

    freelove MS-12....

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    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Quit instigatin'! :laugh:
  48. RandomBlackManX

    RandomBlackManX

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    SDN 7+ Year Member
    lol.
  49. njbmd

    njbmd Guest Moderator Emeritus

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    SDN 5+ Year Member
    I have heard the comment that some black women get angry when they see a successful black man with a woman who isn't what they would consider black? I have never understood what the big deal is. There are plenty of men out there black, white, Latino, Asian and any other ethnicity to meet and get to know. Why would you even consider that something is lacking in you because a man that you don't know is with a woman that you don't know? There is no competition with woman of other ethnicities. I definitely do NOT want to be with a man who doesn't want to be with me.

    I have always been fortunate to have friends and to have had relationships with men of all ethnicities. I love all people period and I certainly don't feel that because a person prefers to date a specific person that it has anything to do with ethnicity or that there is something lacking in me. I don't exclude any person because of race (definitely because of character though) and I have always felt that there was something of a richness to my life because of my openness.

    I am a challenge and I definitely know that I am a great date, girlfriend, friend etc. I am smart, strong and very interesting. What could be better? If you don't want to be my friend or have looked at me and excluded me from your circle based on my color alone, it's your loss and not that something is lacking in me. When it comes to competition, I just don't have any.
  50. dizzle69

    dizzle69 Removed

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    Medical Student
    D'oh, I initially read this as "Dating in med school for Alcoholics Anonymous" ... oh the AA ... :laugh:

    Carry on ...

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