Dating in Med School for AAs

[JaneAustenFan]

I am a black female. I do think there is a lack of good men in the black community but I do not think it is as bad as it is being portrayed be the media etc.
I think alot of the overestimate is caused by black women looking for a men that could buy her a private island and do whatever she says no matter how she badly treats him (and for the black women that want this type of men...date outside the race because I doubt you will find a black men who treats you this way... lol)

I do not know why some black women assume the men is suppose to come in with the paycheck or he is not a men, if you look at other races the money is coming in from the women, but you will not realize it because even though the women is the bread winner she lets her man be a man and knows her 'place'.

I would also like to add this, my mom being a nurse married my father when he had not a penny in his pocket but my mom encourage him to go to go to college and he also become a nurse and from there my father was smart enough to do good investments. My father stills works as a nurse and still owns several real estates and business and make over 100,000 a year. From my parents marriage I have learned that sometimes you do have to be your bf/husband 'mom' and try to push him to do better but you also have to be his gf/wife and know your 'place'.

I personally know that a man does not have to come with money because I know plenty of women that marry a rich men and he will not even allow her to turn on the lights in 'their' house or run the water and I don't want to go into details about the other things they can not do.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and perspective is shaped by how people grow up sometimes. Not everyone thinks a woman "has a place" even if people think there are roles men and women have in a relationship it differs depending on culture and upbringing.

The image that there is a lack of available black men to date could also come from the fact that there are not many on college campuses and a number of black men are incarcerated. The rates of incarcerated blacks in California are ridiculously high compared to the percentage of the black population. I just did a paper on the anti-death penalty movement in the U.S., because of the whole Troy Davis story and the numbers are rather disturbing. There are over 2 million people incarcerated in the U.S. as of 2002.

"About 10.4% of the entire African-American male population in the United States aged 25 to 29 was incarcerated, by far the largest racial or ethnic group—by comparison, 2.4% of Hispanic men and 1.2% of white men in that same age group were incarcerated. According to a report by the Justice Policy Institute in 2002, the number of black men in prison has grown to five times the rate it was twenty years ago. Today, more African-American men are in jail than in college. In 2000 there were 791,600 black men in prison and 603,032 enrolled in college. In 1980, there were 143,000 black men in prison and 463,700 enrolled in college."

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0881455.html#ixzz1hNTtK1uM

Getting a job to help support your family isn't any easier once you have a record.

From what I have observed (but these are my observations so it isn't written in stone) black women tend to marry "down" the educational and income ladder. Almost every other race of women I observe marry "up". Maybe this is just in California or just around where I live.

There are women period who try and marry for money, and it is really sad. Especially when they come from other countries trying to marry for economic security and they end up in dangerously abusive relationships. The domestic violence shelter where I volunteered right out of high school opened up a separate facility for women from Asian countries and women from Latin American countries who came over to the U.S. in order to marry and live a better life, and due to fear of deportation and their vulnerability due to their immigration status refuse to seek help when they are being abused--- strange the men they were married to didn't think they knew their place either.

I was a nanny for a woman (white) who left her husband (Jewish/white) because he refused to keep pursuing a high position at a tech company where he had already come up with an invention that was patented. He receives enough income off of it either monthly or annually to pay the mortgage and regular bills, but that wasn't good enough for her and she divorced him pretty much over that or at least that is what she would complain about all the time. It was always, " He has no ambition" and that "He could be doing so much more." She wasn't just hard on him though, she was pretty cut throat in her own employment pursuits. There are women who want a certain lifestyle and it can put a strain on any relationship.

Granted while who is dating who is an entertaining topic, issues like incarceration rates and the condition of the black community weigh far more heavily on my heart and mind.

http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_4059.shtml-
article by Dr. Henrie M. Treadwell, associate director of Development at the National Center for Primary Care at Morehouse School of Medicine

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[kg062008]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and perspective is shaped by how people grow up sometimes. Not everyone thinks a woman "has a place" even if people think there are roles men and women have in a relationship it differs depending on culture and upbringing.

The image that there is a lack of available black men to date could also come from the fact that there are not many on college campuses and a number of black men are incarcerated. The rates of incarcerated blacks in California are ridiculously high compared to the percentage of the black population. I just did a paper on the anti-death penalty movement in the U.S., because of the whole Troy Davis story and the numbers are rather disturbing. There are over 2 million people incarcerated in the U.S. as of 2002.

"About 10.4% of the entire African-American male population in the United States aged 25 to 29 was incarcerated, by far the largest racial or ethnic group—by comparison, 2.4% of Hispanic men and 1.2% of white men in that same age group were incarcerated. According to a report by the Justice Policy Institute in 2002, the number of black men in prison has grown to five times the rate it was twenty years ago. Today, more African-American men are in jail than in college. In 2000 there were 791,600 black men in prison and 603,032 enrolled in college. In 1980, there were 143,000 black men in prison and 463,700 enrolled in college."

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0881455.html#ixzz1hNTtK1uM

Getting a job to help support your family isn't any easier once you have a record.

From what I have observed (but these are my observations so it isn't written in stone) black women tend to marry "down" the educational and income ladder. Almost every other race of women I observe marry "up". Maybe this is just in California or just around where I live.

There are women period who try and marry for money, and it is really sad. Especially when they come from other countries trying to marry for economic security and they end up in dangerously abusive relationships. The domestic violence shelter where I volunteered right out of high school opened up a separate facility for women from Asian countries and women from Latin American countries who came over to the U.S. in order to marry and live a better life, and due to fear of deportation and their vulnerability due to their immigration status refuse to seek help when they are being abused--- strange the men they were married to didn't think they knew their place either.

I was a nanny for a woman (white) who left her husband (Jewish/white) because he refused to keep pursuing a high position at a tech company where he had already come up with an invention that was patented. He receives enough income off of it either monthly or annually to pay the mortgage and regular bills, but that wasn't good enough for her and she divorced him pretty much over that or at least that is what she would complain about all the time. It was always, " He has no ambition" and that "He could be doing so much more." She wasn't just hard on him though, she was pretty cut throat in her own employment pursuits. There are women who want a certain lifestyle and it can put a strain on any relationship.

Granted while who is dating who is an entertaining topic, issues like incarceration rates and the condition of the black community weigh far more heavily on my heart and mind.

http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_4059.shtml-
article by Dr. Henrie M. Treadwell, associate director of Development at the National Center for Primary Care at Morehouse School of Medicine[/Q


Why are you here arguing for the sake of arguing? College is only 4-6 years, so the enrollment would only include black men ages 18-24, while the incarceration rates would include all black men ages 18-99+.So your little rant about how there are more black men in jail than in college holds little weight. I highly doubt you are black, you arguments you seem so disconnected and aloof. And why did you view my public account then comment on every thread I commented on? Are you a stalker or something or do you just like me? Why would you double quote somebody before I even had a chance to respond to the first thing you said?

 

[management]

I am a black female. I do think there is a lack of good men in the black community but I do not think it is as bad as it is being portrayed be the media etc.
I think alot of the overestimate is caused by black women looking for a men that could buy her a private island and do whatever she says no matter how she badly treats him ( and for the black women that want this type of men...date outside the race because I doubt you will find a black men who treats you this way... lol)

I do not know why some black women assume the men is suppose to come in with the paycheck or he is not a men, if you look at other races the money is coming in from the women, but you will not realize it because even though the women is the bread winner she lets her man be a man and knows her 'place'.

I would also like to add this, my mom being a nurse married my father when he had not a penny in his pocket but my mom encourage him to go to go to college and he also become a nurse and from there my father was smart enough to do good investments. My father stills works as a nurse and still owns several real estates and business and make over 100,000 a year. From my parents marriage I have learned that sometimes you do have to be your bf/husband 'mom' and try to push him to do better but you also have to be his gf/wife and know your 'place'.

I personally know that a man does not have to come with money because I know plenty of women that marry a rich men and he will not even allow her to turn on the lights in 'their' house or run the water and I don't want to go into details about the other things they can not do.

I am a black man, and I cosign this to the fullest.
Man if the world was filled with more sistas like you.....

 

[JaneAustenFan]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and perspective is shaped by how people grow up sometimes. Not everyone thinks a woman "has a place" even if people think there are roles men and women have in a relationship it differs depending on culture and upbringing.

The image that there is a lack of available black men to date could also come from the fact that there are not many on college campuses and a number of black men are incarcerated. The rates of incarcerated blacks in California are ridiculously high compared to the percentage of the black population. I just did a paper on the anti-death penalty movement in the U.S., because of the whole Troy Davis story and the numbers are rather disturbing. There are over 2 million people incarcerated in the U.S. as of 2002.

"About 10.4% of the entire African-American male population in the United States aged 25 to 29 was incarcerated, by far the largest racial or ethnic group—by comparison, 2.4% of Hispanic men and 1.2% of white men in that same age group were incarcerated. According to a report by the Justice Policy Institute in 2002, the number of black men in prison has grown to five times the rate it was twenty years ago. Today, more African-American men are in jail than in college. In 2000 there were 791,600 black men in prison and 603,032 enrolled in college. In 1980, there were 143,000 black men in prison and 463,700 enrolled in college."

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0881455.html#ixzz1hNTtK1uM

Getting a job to help support your family isn't any easier once you have a record.

From what I have observed (but these are my observations so it isn't written in stone) black women tend to marry "down" the educational and income ladder. Almost every other race of women I observe marry "up". Maybe this is just in California or just around where I live.

There are women period who try and marry for money, and it is really sad. Especially when they come from other countries trying to marry for economic security and they end up in dangerously abusive relationships. The domestic violence shelter where I volunteered right out of high school opened up a separate facility for women from Asian countries and women from Latin American countries who came over to the U.S. in order to marry and live a better life, and due to fear of deportation and their vulnerability due to their immigration status refuse to seek help when they are being abused--- strange the men they were married to didn't think they knew their place either.

I was a nanny for a woman (white) who left her husband (Jewish/white) because he refused to keep pursuing a high position at a tech company where he had already come up with an invention that was patented. He receives enough income off of it either monthly or annually to pay the mortgage and regular bills, but that wasn't good enough for her and she divorced him pretty much over that or at least that is what she would complain about all the time. It was always, " He has no ambition" and that "He could be doing so much more." She wasn't just hard on him though, she was pretty cut throat in her own employment pursuits. There are women who want a certain lifestyle and it can put a strain on any relationship.

Granted while who is dating who is an entertaining topic, issues like incarceration rates and the condition of the black community weigh far more heavily on my heart and mind.

http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_4059.shtml-
article by Dr. Henrie M. Treadwell, associate director of Development at the National Center for Primary Care at Morehouse School of Medicine[/Q


Why are you here arguing for the sake of arguing? College is only 4-6 years, so the enrollment would only include black men ages 18-24, while the incarceration rates would include all black men ages 18-99+.So your little rant about how there are more black men in jail than in college holds little weight. I highly doubt you are black, you arguments you seem so disconnected and aloof. And why did you view my public account then comment on every thread I commented on? Are you a stalker or something or do you just like me? Why would you double quote somebody before I even had a chance to respond to the first thing you said?

First of all, you seem to have an issue with me for no reason. I have been on SDN for two years and I post rarely, but I don't consult you when I do and I have never been accused of arguing with anyone before. You and another person on this thread think that if you keep saying that I am "arguing" or keep questioning my ethnicity that that somehow is going to scare me away from this thread or posting opinions that you don't agree with. It won't.

If you don't like what I am saying you are free to express that, but you need to back off.

I am not arguing for the sake of arguing. No matter what I say, you are going to have a problem with it because I haven't fully agreed with you in the past posts. I have a right to post my opinion and you have the right not to respond. No one is stalking you; I looked at plenty of people's profiles (generally only people who have looked at mine), just like you looked at mine. There are other people who posted on this thread who have viewed my profile as well, are they stalking me? Are you stalking me? I haven't intentionally commented on every thread you have commented on. I have been to one or two other threads under the underrepresented in medicine forum because I fall into that category whether you believe it or not. I don't base where I post on where you have posted. I generally look at the titles and the ones toward the top get my attention. Don't beat yourself up; I am sure someone likes you.

According to you, now I am not supposed to post in any forum you have ever posted in? Am I really supposed to look and see if you have posted and then avoid posting anything? Are you kidding me?

Not only do you want to tell people where they can post, you want to tell them how many times they can quote someone? The reason why I didn't wait for a response from you is because I am not trying to have a conversation with "kg062008". I can PM you for that if that is what I wanted. Again, I address ideas not individuals so you are so not that important.

The response I gave was to someone else's post, unless you are posting under another name now in order to influence the direction of this thread. Oh, wait. I am starting to sound paranoid like you now.

There are people beyond age 24 that attend medical school and if you weren't so narrow-minded you would know that. Also, those people didn't just pop into prison at the age of 25, they either have prior run-ins as youth or are serving extensive time in prison. The point is, something is happening prior to the age of 25 that is directing young black men toward prison at higher rates than school. The incarceration rates of black men are higher than other groups regardless of the age group and in my opinion, if I posted information on youth (see below) you would take issue with that as well. I don't see this as a good thing or a way for black females to skirt responsibility. This is a problem for everyone. These numbers are not insignificant; this has to be having an impact on relationships and dating-- in or out of medical school.

The youth stat's you wanted.

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/streeracpripov.html
http://blog.al.com/live/2010/03/blacks_4_times_more_likely_to.html
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/detention_fact_2007.pdf

So this is the way it works on this thread (or the way you want it to). It is okay to post negative things about black females for your own reasons, but even if someone posts a statistic about black males that you don't like then they must have an issue with black males or they must not be black. That is part of the problem with some segments of the black community, if you bring up anything negative (even if it wasn't meant to be derogatory or mean) some people take it that way.

If the person who I responded to posted that there is an appearance of a lack of good men in the black community and gave her opinion as to why that is, why can't I without you jumping on me about it? I didn't necessarily disagree with her. If you read my post, I offered another perspective. What she is saying could be true in a lot of cases, but all I did was mention something else and because it is me doing it you have a problem with it. So maybe it is you that likes to argue. At the very least you like to try and intimidate and control. If this is how you treat women, race is the least of your worries.

Grow up.

 

[YoungGregory]

A lot of bitter people in this thread.

 

[JaneAustenFan]

A lot of bitter people in this thread.

People keep re-visiting a subject that was supposedly dropped after a moderator had already tried to put an end to it.

Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas.

 

[ainsley]

AA's???

You mean affirmative action students????

 

[New Vocab]

Being mixed or whatever you call it doesn't make me less black. I still self-identify as black. I don't live in an area with a lot of black people, but I have been around black people through some portions of my life, although I grew up predominately around non-blacks.

The disconnect is that some black people are attracted to people outside of their race (sometimes exclusively), myself included, and instead of just being secure in their preference, they try and justify their choices by applying negative characteristics to a whole group.

Mixed ancestry actually does make you less black on an empirical basis. You are only half black, which means you are also half white, which means you are not black. I don't know how I can make this any clearer to you. Your post disconcerts me as "your race" isn't what you think it is, and in accordance with your non-black upbringing, it's a mystery to me as to why your opinion here is valid at all.

It does not cleanly relate to the AA experience, your personal identity issues put aside.

The average 20% white average in African Americans is not levied across all blacks; it is an average encompassing those "blacks" that appear almost white and those that appear almost completely black. Removing the "almost white" outliers would reduce the admixture rate I bet.

Don't like seeing interracial relationships huh? That's it. I give up. African American women are a lost cause. My dating life is less stressful dealing with non-black girls. The girl I am dating now (who is white, stunningly beautiful, and in my med school class) is one of the nicest people I've met in a long time and doesn't give me the same headache and criticism as AA girls. This is absurd that we can't even encourage and take care of our own as African Americans in this country. Absolutely absurd. If my current relationship isn't long term then at worst, I'll ask my family in the UK to set me up with a black girl from over there. I visit there enough times in the year for it to be possible anyway. And one of my best relationships in college was with a British black girl so it won't be that bad. Also, interesting fact that most educated people in this country don't know: British black people and British white people have the same accent and you can't tell their skin color if you hear them over the phone. It's unbelievable how many American's don't know this....

As a black man myself there is absolutely nothing wrong with black women because they like to date black men - and see a problem with dating a different group. You attack her in self interest because you don't want to be labelled for your predilections. Taking care of African Americans has nothing to do with interracial dating at all. What a ridiculous tangent.

 

[Telekinesis]

Mixed ancestry actually does make you less black on an empirical basis. You are only half black, which means you are also half white, which means you are not black. I don't know how I can make this any clearer to you. Your post disconcerts me as "your race" isn't what you think it is, and in accordance with your non-black upbringing, it's a mystery to me as to why your opinion here is valid at all.

It does not cleanly relate to the AA experience, your personal identity issues put aside.

The average 20% white average in African Americans is not levied across all blacks; it is an average encompassing those "blacks" that appear almost white and those that appear almost completely black. Removing the "almost white" outliers would reduce the admixture rate I bet.

Thank you. said everything that I wanted to say.

 

[kg062008]

Oh god, this thread has started again. Only a matter of time before JAF comes here are starts arguing for no reason.

 

[management]

Oh god, this thread has started again. Only a matter of time before JAF comes here are starts arguing for no reason.

She had me rofl with her comments lol.....I think she needs some good ism spit to her, but I may be mistaking.

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

Mixed ancestry actually does make you less black on an empirical basis. You are only half black, which means you are also half white, which means you are not black. I don't know how I can make this any clearer to you. Your post disconcerts me as "your race" isn't what you think it is, and in accordance with your non-black upbringing, it's a mystery to me as to why your opinion here is valid at all.

It does not cleanly relate to the AA experience, your personal identity issues put aside.

The average 20% white average in African Americans is not levied across all blacks; it is an average encompassing those "blacks" that appear almost white and those that appear almost completely black. Removing the "almost white" outliers would reduce the admixture rate I bet.



As a black man myself there is absolutely nothing wrong with black women because they like to date black men - and see a problem with dating a different group. You attack her in self interest because you don't want to be labelled for your predilections. Taking care of African Americans has nothing to do with interracial dating at all. What a ridiculous tangent.

Thank you New Vocab for your comments

Thank you. said everything that I wanted to say.

I concur!

Oh god, this thread has started again. Only a matter of time before JAF comes here are starts arguing for no reason.

bwahahahahahahahaha

 

[JaneAustenFan]

Mixed ancestry actually does make you less black on an empirical basis. You are only half black, which means you are also half white, which means you are not black. I don't know how I can make this any clearer to you. Your post disconcerts me as "your race" isn't what you think it is, and in accordance with your non-black upbringing, it's a mystery to me as to why your opinion here is valid at all.

It does not cleanly relate to the AA experience, your personal identity issues put aside.

The average 20% white average in African Americans is not levied across all blacks; it is an average encompassing those "blacks" that appear almost white and those that appear almost completely black. Removing the "almost white" outliers would reduce the admixture rate I bet.



As a black man myself there is absolutely nothing wrong with black women because they like to date black men - and see a problem with dating a different group. You attack her in self interest because you don't want to be labelled for your predilections. Taking care of African Americans has nothing to do with interracial dating at all. What a ridiculous tangent.

People must be bored if we are coming back to this sad discussion again.

I am not half white, what are you talking about? Where did you read this?

Why do people insist on making up their own realities or putting words in my mouth?

When did Native American become white? I am only part Native American, I am also black. You don't know my racial breakdown so you just decide what I am for me?

So now I am half white. My parents will be very interested to hear this, but there will be a question as to how this is the case since neither one of them would be considered white.

Because the whole world is just black and white to very narrow-minded people. There is no way someone black could ever be mixed with anything else but white, right? Even though I have mentioned in previous threads that I have Native American ancestry, that little tidbit seemed to just slip right past you there.

I can tell though that people don't read what I write. They just see my name and then just start writing crap, because they already made up in their minds that what I am saying must run contradictory to what they believe, and that is just not okay.

 

[JaneAustenFan]

It is only a matter of time before you all started up again.

I guess you like your women quiet and complacent.

They should re-name this thread, "Grab your crotch, talk **** and make yourself feel better when you are bored thread".

If you are bored--- go knit something.

This is a new year, come up with a better discussion and quit focusing on me.

Funny thing is, I haven't written any of your names once since the new year began, but apparently you can't seem to get me off of your mind.

I guess whoever that ainsley idiot was couldn't get you guys going so you thought you would start up with me again.

Typical.

Keep talking ****...

She had me rofl with her comments lol.....I think she needs some good ism spit to her, but I may be mistaking.

 

[JaneAustenFan]

Oh god, this thread has started again. Only a matter of time before JAF comes here are starts arguing for no reason.

Bite me

 

[JaneAustenFan]

She had me rofl with her comments lol.....I think she needs some good ism spit to her, but I may be mistaking.

Try thinking rather than laughing.

I don't recall saying anything off base. You can laugh it off, bitch about it, call names, act like a child, fact is not everyone is going to agree with you all the time.

You don't need to make suggestions of what you think I need. You have something you want to share about me, you better make sure you're man enough to run it by me and not post smack behind my back. There is a PM button; use it.

Say it to me or don't say it at all.

I never once made fun of anyone for their opinions or questioned why they posted in this thread. If I say one thing, even if it is agreeing with someone, the mob of *****s come out in force trying to scare off anyone who doesn't fully agree with them. They run in packs like dogs.

If people have their opinions, then stand by them, but people shouldn't try and malign others just because they don't match what they believe.

 

[management]

Try thinking rather than laughing.

I don't recall saying anything off base. You can laugh it off, bitch about it, call names, act like a child, fact is not everyone is going to agree with you all the time.

You don't need to make suggestions of what you think I need. You have something you want to share about me, you better make sure you're man enough to run it by me and not post smack behind my back. There is a PM button; use it.

Say it to me or don't say it at all.

I never once made fun of anyone for their opinions or questioned why they posted in this thread. If I say one thing, even if it is agreeing with someone, the mob of *****s come out in force trying to scare off anyone who doesn't fully agree with them. They run in packs like dogs.

If people have their opinions, then stand by them, but people shouldn't try and malign others just because they don't match what they believe.

You got me rofl again.....lol....man.....

Ok. Let's be honest.....a lot on this forum, as well as SDN, is funny ish. You're not excluded, and I am not either. I bet if you check out some of my comments, you'd probably bust a gut. So, yeah, some of your comments are funny. Doesn't make you special or anything, but they are.

Yep.

And hey, if folks disagree with you, oh well. It's not the end of the world. Just like you have an opinion, other folks have one too. Yours may seem weird, but my opinion might seem weird to you too, but it doesn't matter. Do what makes you happy, regardless of what others think, including myself.

....and how did I say stuff behind your back, when I posted it in a public forum? Guess that wasn't manly enough lol.

Also, same way we didn't care about that ainsley guy, SDN didn't either since they banned him. See, his comment was stupid, but some of yours were funny. It's all good though.

Oh, and I like my women to have their own opinion. My confidence overpowers that 'you want a woman to not be opinionated and to be quiet' stuff, cause I'm that sure of myself, and I am in no way threatened by a lady with a freakin brain. Actually, most of us men on this board feel this way, and I know I love a black woman that brings beauty AND intelligence to the table....please believe me. Here's the kicker though: there's a different thing between a woman who has her own thoughts and beliefs, and a woman who tries to shout down and shut down anything a man says and believes.....sadly, folks call those types of women 'opinionated'or 'independent', and a lot of us men, including me, don't deal with that type of disrespect.

But again, do you.

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

You got me rofl again.....lol....man.....

Ok. Let's be honest.....a lot on this forum, as well as SDN, is funny ish. You're not excluded, and I am not either. I bet if you check out some of my comments, you'd probably bust a gut. So, yeah, some of your comments are funny. Doesn't make you special or anything, but they are.

Yep.

And hey, if folks disagree with you, oh well. It's not the end of the world. Just like you have an opinion, other folks have one too. Yours may seem weird, but my opinion might seem weird to you too, but it doesn't matter. Do what makes you happy, regardless of what others think, including myself.

....and how did I say stuff behind your back, when I posted it in a public forum? Guess that wasn't manly enough lol.

Also, same way we didn't care about that ainsley guy, SDN didn't either since they banned him. See, his comment was stupid, but some of yours were funny. It's all good though.

Oh, and I like my women to have their own opinion. My confidence overpowers that 'you want a woman to not be opinionated and to be quiet' stuff, cause I'm that sure of myself, and I am in no way threatened by a lady with a freakin brain. Actually, most of us men on this board feel this way, and I know I love a black woman that brings beauty AND intelligence to the table....please believe me. Here's the kicker though: there's a different thing between a woman who has her own thoughts and beliefs, and a woman who tries to shout down and shut down anything a man says and believes.....sadly, folks call those types of women 'opinionated'or 'independent', and a lot of us men, including me, don't deal with that type of disrespect.

But again, do you.

Actually, most black men feel intimidated if their woman are outspoken or head strong, lol. They want the quiet and meek woman whose very shy and let you walk all over her, lol. Of course, as a woman I do understand my "place" (take place however you want to take it, lol) but I hate when men think they are superior than women. They are tripping really hard .

Hey management,

Are you from NY or something because I used to use the phrase, "ok, do you", a lot in HS

 

[kg062008]

Bite me

LOL I don' t think she likes me.

 

[JaneAustenFan]

You got me rofl again.....lol....man.....

Ok. Let's be honest.....a lot on this forum, as well as SDN, is funny ish. You're not excluded, and I am not either. I bet if you check out some of my comments, you'd probably bust a gut. So, yeah, some of your comments are funny. Doesn't make you special or anything, but they are.

Yep.

And hey, if folks disagree with you, oh well. It's not the end of the world. Just like you have an opinion, other folks have one too. Yours may seem weird, but my opinion might seem weird to you too, but it doesn't matter. Do what makes you happy, regardless of what others think, including myself.

....and how did I say stuff behind your back, when I posted it in a public forum? Guess that wasn't manly enough lol.

Also, same way we didn't care about that ainsley guy, SDN didn't either since they banned him. See, his comment was stupid, but some of yours were funny. It's all good though.

Oh, and I like my women to have their own opinion. My confidence overpowers that 'you want a woman to not be opinionated and to be quiet' stuff, cause I'm that sure of myself, and I am in no way threatened by a lady with a freakin brain. Actually, most of us men on this board feel this way, and I know I love a black woman that brings beauty AND intelligence to the table....please believe me. Here's the kicker though: there's a different thing between a woman who has her own thoughts and beliefs, and a woman who tries to shout down and shut down anything a man says and believes.....sadly, folks call those types of women 'opinionated'or 'independent', and a lot of us men, including me, don't deal with that type of disrespect.

But again, do you.

First of all I am not shouting down anyone. I like lively discussions if they are respectful. Respectful does not mean you have to agree with me. I have agreed and disagreed with ideas on this thread, but some people only focus on what I disagree with them about.

I never once have discouraged anyone from having his/her opinion of topics that were discussed or posting in this thread. Others have tried to control who posts here, so take that argument to them.

And according to some on this board, I am not black since I have mixed ancestry. I would like for them to explain exactly what makes them black and not me. What are the qualifiers?

I made statements that were not directed at anyone and then it snowballed into people, the same individuals, time after time responding to my posts as if I am personally attacking them just because they don't like what I say so they try and just say, "Oh you like to argue." since they can't handle a discussion or a difference in opinion. Just because I don't support everything they say, then to them I am attacking them.

I am not just disagreeing with ideas presented by men nor have I only agreed with ideas or opinions presented by women in this thread. Truthfully, with the names a lot of the times I cannot tell if the poster is male or female anyhow.

I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me. I have never expressed an issue with that on this board, my issue is when people:

1) Tell me I said something I didn't or try to draw conclusions about me based on a few lines in a post.
2) Try to tell me not to post in a thread, because they don't agree with my opinion.
3) Try to tell me who I am

Who is disrespecting who?

If you are talking about me without directly talking to me, you are talking **** behind my back, public forum or not. If you think I need something or have a suggestion for me, you don't need to discuss that with someone else. You can discuss that with me not on a board to one of your bros. That is disrespectful and I don't tolerate that.

You can make blanket statements like your posts are funny, but what the hell does that mean? What is funny about them? The stats I gave earlier in my posts on here were not funny. They were anything, but funny. I guess humor makes everything better though, right?

 

[JaneAustenFan]

LOL I don' t think she likes me.

I don't know you, so whether I like you or not is irrelevant. However, I don't like your insistence of wanting to keep up **** with me because you have nothing else going on.

I am sure you can find entertainment and humor interacting with someone else. You just seem overly focused on me.

 

[management]

Actually, most black men feel intimidated if their woman are outspoken or head strong, lol. They want the quiet and meek woman whose very shy and let you walk all over her, lol. Of course, as a woman I do understand my "place" (take place however you want to take it, lol) but I hate when men think they are superior than women. They are tripping really hard .

Hey management,

Are you from NY or something because I used to use the phrase, "ok, do you", a lot in HS

See, you got me posting early in the morning...how dare you lol.

Alright, let me be more clear: we MEN...key word MEN, especially black MEN....even more, black MEN on this BOARD.....don't have to act superior to women. That's where that confidence comes from. If you're a black man, have made it into med school, and do not have an ounce of confidence, then seek help....quickly.

Still, we can take that 'superior' act from two angles. From one view, the guy might be a simp or a strong square who doesn't believe in himself, thereby trying to put women down in order to make him feel better. That is WEAK, and bi***made.
On the other hand, some women don't understand their ROLE as a woman in the relationship, and when the man exercises his natural leader role in the relationship, she gets bent out of shape, assuming he's trying to turn her into a slave. That's what happens with a lot of 'headstrong' women.

Now, I will say, we don't deal well with the sassy talk, because if we let that continue, further disrespect is on the way. So I'll nip that in the bud quickly. See, phrases like 'head strong' and 'outspoken' point to a type of arrogance, a loud type of behavior, and sure, we can have fun, but I can't have a woman challenging me on EVERYTHING eh. We men stand our ground, but I know I won't have too much bickering at all. Life is too short, and I'm all about enjoying life, with a smart woman, please believe.

Women who are respectable will be respected, at least by this MAN.

Oh, and you got jokes lol.....we still say 'do you' in the south.....well beyond our high school years....hater....

Thanks for helping steer this convo back in the back direction though.

 

[management]

First of all I am not shouting down anyone. I have agreed and disagreed with ideas on this thread, but some people only focus on what I disagree with them about.

I make statements that were not directed at anyone and then it snowballed into people the same individuals time after time responding to my posts as if I am personally attacking them just because they don't like what I say so they try and just say, "Oh you like to argue." since they can't handle a discussion or a difference in opinion. Based on some people's names I cannot tell if the poster is male or female anyhow.

I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me. I have never expressed an issue with that on this board, my issue is when people:

1) Tell me I said something I didn't.
2) Try to tell me not to post a board because they don't agree with my opinion
3) Try to tell me who I am

Who is disrespecting who?

If you are talking about me without directly talking to me, you are talking **** behind my back, public forum or not. If you think I need something or have a suggestion for me, you don't need to discuss that with someone else. You can discuss that with me not on a board to one of your bros.

Lol...rofl again...ok....

Do you lady, and peep the game being discussed by me and dermocrat. Good ish.

 

[JaneAustenFan]

Again, vague statement. Very easy to get out of really discussing something by just laughing **** off.

You just keep doing you.

We need all sorts of people in this world.

 

[JaneAustenFan]

See, you got me posting early in the morning...how dare you lol.

Alright, let me be more clear: we MEN...key word MEN, especially black MEN....even more, black MEN on this BOARD.....don't have to act superior to women. That's where that confidence comes from. If you're a black man, have made it into med school, and do not have an ounce of confidence, then seek help....quickly.

Still, we can take that 'superior' act from two angles. From one view, the guy might be a simp or a strong square who doesn't believe in himself, thereby trying to put women down in order to make him feel better. That is WEAK, and bi***made.
On the other hand, some women don't understand their ROLE as a woman in the relationship, and when the man exercises his natural leader role in the relationship, she gets bent out of shape, assuming he's trying to turn her into a slave. That's what happens with a lot of 'headstrong' women.

Now, I will say, we don't deal well with the sassy talk, because if we let that continue, further disrespect is on the way. So I'll nip that in the bud quickly. See, phrases like 'head strong' and 'outspoken' point to a type of arrogance, a loud type of behavior, and sure, we can have fun, but I can't have a woman challenging me on EVERYTHING eh. We men stand our ground, but I know I won't have too much bickering at all. Life is too short, and I'm all about enjoying life, with a smart woman, please believe.

Women who are respectable will be respected, at least by this MAN.

Oh, and you got jokes lol.....we still say 'do you' in the south.....well beyond our high school years....hater....

Thanks for helping steer this convo back in the back direction though.

The real reason there is tension on this board is because some people in this thread believe certain things about men and women. No one said having confidence is a bad thing. Arrogance and confidence are not the same thing and no degree can make up for a terrible personality.

Just because someone is black and male and was accepted to medical school does not mean they need to be a prick. It is a great accomplishment for anyone, but it isn't an excuse to be a jerk.

Since you decided you would speak for black men, I will speak for some women, regardless of race. There are some women who can't stand men who tell them how much they can disagree or what they can disagree about. That is where most relationships tend to sour, someone wants to be the dominant one when there really isn't need for that in my opinion. Not everyone is going to share the same beliefs. I wasn't raised to believe women have a place-- some people due to religious or cultural reasons were raised differently, but not everyone is the same.

Really there is nothing to worry about, because people with any sense wouldn't get in a relationship with someone who isn't a match in terms of how they view relationships. You can't change people.

It really is a non-issue, because relationships shouldn't be about dominating or controlling someone or trying to maintain a certain role or sense of power. Natural leadership role? That is what the Boy Scouts were for. What exactly needs to be led?

I don't see men or women having a specific role or place in a relationship or in this thread. If you think they do and that **** carries over in how you interact with people in this thread, well then of course there is going to be an issue. Whatever relationship issues some of the males on this board have with women is their business, but let me remind you I am not in a relationship with anyone on this board, so I don't see why anyone would think I should observe their beliefs about men and women's roles.

If you are confident, great, but someone disagreeing with a viewpoint you believe in shouldn't shake that confidence or make you feel threatened.

I would be interested in hearing exactly what a woman's role is in a relationship. Please elaborate.

 

[kg062008]

I don't know you, so whether I like you or not is irrelevant. However, I don't like your insistence of wanting to keep up **** with me because you have nothing else going on.

I am sure you can find entertainment and humor interacting with someone else. You just seem overly focused on me.

Dude just chill, it not even that serious . You seem genuinely agitated when a few people poke fun at you on a web forum. A real black woman would have way thicker skin than this.

 

[JaneAustenFan]

Dude just chill, it not even that serious . You seem genuinely agitated when a few people poke fun at you on a web forum. A real black woman would have way thicker skin than this.

Oh, so this is all fun now? Great, I am glad we are all having so much fun since at some points during these posts you came across as genuinely agitated as well.

Strangely enough, you seem genuinely determined to either fulfill a stereotype or constantly profess one.

What do you know about real black women? You seem to have your finger on the pulse of black America. Please, educate me.

Since you question my blackness so much, why don't you tell me what makes someone black?

What makes you more black than me? Fun or not, that has been a running theme since I began posting.

 

[2012mdc]

Oh, so this is all fun now? Great, I am glad we are all having so much fun since at some points during these posts you came across as genuinely agitated as well.

Strangely enough, you seem genuinely determined to either fulfill a stereotype or constantly profess one.

What do you know about real black women?

Since you question my blackness so much, why don't you tell me what makes someone black?

What makes you more black than me? Fun or not, that has been a running theme since I began posting.

You probably should relax a bit. Posters on anonymous forum shouldn't get you upset.

 

[JaneAustenFan]

You probably should relax a bit. Posters on anonymous forum shouldn't get you upset.

I am actually not upset, but thank you for asking and not assuming.

I am actually more curious. For the last 20 or so years of my life I considered myself black, but there are people in this thread who apparently know better.

These days most things are not that anonymous.

 

[2012mdc]

I am actually not upset, but thank you for asking and not assuming.

I am actually more curious. For the last 20 or so years of my life I considered myself black, but there are people in this thread who apparently know better.

These days most things are not that anonymous.

Agitated, upset, whatever you want to call it

"during these posts you came across as genuinely agitated as well."

 

[JaneAustenFan]

Agitated, upset, whatever you want to call it

"during these posts you came across as genuinely agitated as well."

I am glad you are so concerned.

 

[2012mdc]

I am glad you are so concerned.

Why do you have such an attitude? Maybe you do fit the stereotype...... jk

 

[JaneAustenFan]

Why do you have such an attitude? Maybe you do fit the stereotype...... jk

I had to attend a funeral today and so I haven't been in a joking mood. I am sure that not everything that has been written in this thread has been in jest.

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

See, you got me posting early in the morning...how dare you lol.

Alright, let me be more clear: we MEN...key word MEN, especially black MEN....even more, black MEN on this BOARD.....don't have to act superior to women. That's where that confidence comes from. If you're a black man, have made it into med school, and do not have an ounce of confidence, then seek help....quickly.

Still, we can take that 'superior' act from two angles. From one view, the guy might be a simp or a strong square who doesn't believe in himself, thereby trying to put women down in order to make him feel better. That is WEAK, and bi***made.
On the other hand, some women don't understand their ROLE as a woman in the relationship, and when the man exercises his natural leader role in the relationship, she gets bent out of shape, assuming he's trying to turn her into a slave. That's what happens with a lot of 'headstrong' women.

Now, I will say, we don't deal well with the sassy talk, because if we let that continue, further disrespect is on the way. So I'll nip that in the bud quickly. See, phrases like 'head strong' and 'outspoken' point to a type of arrogance, a loud type of behavior, and sure, we can have fun, but I can't have a woman challenging me on EVERYTHING eh. We men stand our ground, but I know I won't have too much bickering at all. Life is too short, and I'm all about enjoying life, with a smart woman, please believe.

Women who are respectable will be respected, at least by this MAN.

Oh, and you got jokes lol.....we still say 'do you' in the south.....well beyond our high school years....hater....

Thanks for helping steer this convo back in the back direction though.

Why can't both people in the relationship be the leaders? Why the men wants to dominate the relationship all the time? I am not saying that they shouldn't be maybe rotating the roles will be great and healthy for the relationship. The men can sometimes cook, clean and baby sit the kids while the mom is having an outing with her friends.

What if you're wrong on most stuff and maybe that's why your woman is challenging you? Then what? lol. I thought so.........

You don't have to be loud to be outspoken or arrogant?


Here you go with the hating statement. It's 2012, let's drop the words: hater, swag, leggo and etc. C'mon man, why would someone from BROOKLYN, NY, (me), hate on YOU, a southern BWOY, lol. There's nothing to hate on shhhhawwwtyyy (I graduated from a school in Atlanta).

Yeah I had to steer the convo back or you and JAF will be.............

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

Lol...rofl again...ok....

Do you lady, and peep the game being discussed by me and dermocrat. Good ish.

Would JAF knows what peep the game means? She said that she grew up in a pre-dominant majority society and haven't really connected with her African-American side as much, so maybe some of the slang she may not know. If she does know then I apologize for my ASSumption, lol. As they always say when you ASSume you make an A*$ out yourself .

I send my condolences to you JAF since you had to attend a funeral today.

 

[JaneAustenFan]

Would JAF knows what peep the game means? She said that she grew up in a pre-dominant majority society and haven't really connected with her African-American side as much, so maybe some of the slang she may not know. If she does know then I apologize for my ASSumption, lol. As they always say when you ASSume you make an A*$ out yourself .

I send my condolences to you JAF since you had to attend a funeral today.

I always thought it was if you assume you make and ass out of you and me.

ass/u/me

I do know what "peep the game" means. Apology accepted.

I live in California so it is not like I live in a bubble. I grew up with family still and some of them were black. I am fully aware of my history and I have and still do work on issues concerning the black community.

The majority of people I grew up around were Latino , but they are sort of the majority it seems in California. The next group would be Native Americans or whites and then Asian; not sure which population is higher in the surrounding area.

If I drove a bit I could be in Oakland, CA (Not sure if you know where that is located) or other areas that are or were predominately black.

It is strange, black people here live completely spread out and then all the sudden they cluster in cities like Oakland, Richmond or L.A. Some of that has to do with jobs opportunities at one point and the fact that low-income neighborhoods are restricted to certain areas. Did I have a lot of black friends growing up? No. Very few.

Yes, black people have their own issues, but I see and hear a lot of the same things going on in non-black communities. The only difference is out here the non-black community is more supportive of one another and there are a lot of immigrants and they are a tight-knit group.

I am very observant. I watch how other groups work together and some of my friends belong to groups that seem to take active roles in improving their communities. Nothing occurs accidentally; it is all planned and everyone is involved in making their communities stronger. Whether that is having their own cultural schools on the weekend, being supportive of entrepreneurs from their group, or focusing on the education of youth in their group.

So if the African-American community is struggling with other areas in life, of course there may be issues when it comes to dating or relationships.

I don't hate men, and I certainly don't hate black men since I really don't know any aside from family. So guess what, my interactions with some of you on this board have been some of my first interactions with blacks or black males outside of family and other community events or volunteer opportunities that I have been a part of.

I looked forward to attending an HBCU for medical school, but I may end up at a private school in California so I probably still won't be around a lot of African-Americans until after medical school.

 

[management]

Why can't both people in the relationship be the leaders? Why the men wants to dominate the relationship all the time? I am not saying that they shouldn't be maybe rotating the roles will be great and healthy for the relationship. The men can sometimes cook, clean and baby sit the kids while the mom is having an outing with her friends.

What if you're wrong on most stuff and maybe that's why your woman is challenging you? Then what? lol. I thought so.........

You don't have to be loud to be outspoken or arrogant?


Here you go with the hating statement. It's 2012, let's drop the words: hater, swag, leggo and etc. C'mon man, why would someone from BROOKLYN, NY, (me), hate on YOU, a southern BWOY, lol. There's nothing to hate on shhhhawwwtyyy (I graduated from a school in Atlanta).

Yeah I had to steer the convo back or you and JAF will be.............

Man.....you're killin me over here lol. Ok, let's continue......maybe you and I can get this board back straight again.

Although this is 2012, the year of the Mayans, the year Obama gets re-elected, still, there are basic roles that still must be adhered to. With everything, from families to businesses to organizations, for it to properly function, there must be order. That's why I adhere to the truth that the man is the head of the household.
There is a difference between being a leader and being dominating. Domineering people have a type of low self esteem, thereby wanting to put themselves over everyone else. See, this is not the type of leader a man is supposed to be. A woman lets the man lead the household, but that does not diminish her womanly role at all. Of course she is the primary nurturer in the family, but that does not mean that the man is not supposed to share in cooking and helping raise the kids.
See, I am not a believer in following the woman, because it is not natural. I hope women want a man who will guide and who will listen to her ideas and respect everything about her. If the woman CHOOSES a decent man and allows him to be a man, he will make sure she is taken cared of, emotionally, physically, and spiritually.

Now....I'm gonna keep using 'hater', but yeah, you can throw away 'swag' and 'leggo'...those words are kinda moist lol.....

....but you know you luv that southern comfort......admit it.....

 

[JaneAustenFan]

Man.....you're killin me over here lol. Ok, let's continue......maybe you and I can get this board back straight again.

Although this is 2012, the year of the Mayans, the year Obama gets re-elected, still, there are basic roles that still must be adhered to. With everything, from families to businesses to organizations, for it to properly function, there must be order. That's why I adhere to the truth that the man is the head of the household.
There is a difference between being a leader and being dominating. Domineering people have a type of low self esteem, thereby wanting to put themselves over everyone else. See, this is not the type of leader a man is supposed to be. A woman lets the man lead the household, but that does not diminish her womanly role at all. Of course she is the primary nurturer in the family, but that does not mean that the man is not supposed to share in cooking and helping raise the kids.
See, I am not a believer in following the woman, because it is not natural. I hope women want a man who will guide and who will listen to her ideas and respect everything about her. If the woman CHOOSES a decent man and allows him to be a man, he will make sure she is taken cared of, emotionally, physically, and spiritually.

Now....I'm gonna keep using 'hater', but yeah, you can throw away 'swag' and 'leggo'...those words are kinda moist lol.....

....but you know you luv that southern comfort......admit it.....

I am almost positive I wasn't raised in a household like this (it seems a bit old-fashioned). That may be "normal" in certain cultures, areas of the U.S., or perceived to be that way in certain religious circles. If you look at Christianity, people tend to read and quote only part of verses to make their point.

Paul said husbands should "love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her." Ephesians 5:25

What was Christ's role, if men are to be like Christ in their relationships?

"Even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." Mark 10:45

That is a form of servant leadership.

The scripture is specific in what a man's responsibility is in marriage, he is to be the spiritual "head" in marriage. It doesn't say the relationship as a whole or any other role.

So a lot of the issue with how people interpret things have to do with reading things in context and then also not overgeneralizing statements into other areas.

I am still not sure what you meant by "A woman lets the man lead the household". In what way? Whenever I hear people make statements like this they never give specific examples, and I am really curious what is meant by this. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything that my mom does that my dad couldn't do or wouldn't be willing to do or vice versa. Do you believe there are certain traits that men have that make them a better leader in relationships, if so what?

What, does he get to decide what is on TV or what school the children attend? I don't get why they both wouldn't be able to share in the decision making process if it involves or affects everyone in the household. Why does one of them have to lead? Generally when I think of leading, it implies there is a subordinate. It doesn't mean that there isn't respect, but a leader has more authority and responsibility than a follower. Who wants to always be a follower? How could a chromosome determine one's ability to lead? Then should there not be women CEOs, because if women can't even share in the leadership role within their family should they be running multi-million/billion dollar companies?

It seems like the relationship would consist of a hierarchy; I always thought relationships were a partnership.

My dad and mom recognized their strengths and weakness and they didn't base how they operated on their gender. There was a lot of compromising though so more give and take than someone having the final authority or say.

I guess that leadership thing works for some relationships, but it may not be natural for some people. I think I would be uncomfortable in either role.

As for what is natural or not natural, I mean someone could argue that a person of African descent should not be president since for the last 200 years or so prior to 2008 every president has fallen into the category of a white male. So not only could someone argue that Obama winning re-election would be unnatural, but the fact that he was ever President in the first place is questionable.

If you think about it, if natural is doing things the way they have always been done and have worked or basing fact on trends then, the audacity of any non-white male to ever consider medicine as a career. Some people think people of color have a place too.

A black doctor would be "unnatural" then wouldn't it? I think what is natural for someone is relative to each individual based on something other than gender or race.

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

Man.....you're killin me over here lol. Ok, let's continue......maybe you and I can get this board back straight again.

Although this is 2012, the year of the Mayans, the year Obama gets re-elected, still, there are basic roles that still must be adhered to. With everything, from families to businesses to organizations, for it to properly function, there must be order. That's why I adhere to the truth that the man is the head of the household.
There is a difference between being a leader and being dominating. Domineering people have a type of low self esteem, thereby wanting to put themselves over everyone else. See, this is not the type of leader a man is supposed to be. A woman lets the man lead the household, but that does not diminish her womanly role at all. Of course she is the primary nurturer in the family, but that does not mean that the man is not supposed to share in cooking and helping raise the kids.
See, I am not a believer in following the woman, because it is not natural. I hope women want a man who will guide and who will listen to her ideas and respect everything about her. If the woman CHOOSES a decent man and allows him to be a man, he will make sure she is taken cared of, emotionally, physically, and spiritually.

Now....I'm gonna keep using 'hater', but yeah, you can throw away 'swag' and 'leggo'...those words are kinda moist lol.....

....but you know you luv that southern comfort......admit it.....

I agree there must be order in the household and I would hate for my bf/fiance/husband to be a punk. He needs to have a backbone and know when to stand up for himself.

Yes most women do want a man who can guide her but it's hard to find a keen listener, lol.

Honestly, I love leggo since Chris Brown's video, "Look at me now". I guess that shish is cray ain't it Jay!

Man, nothing beats NY and I lived in Atlanta for three years because of school. Fried Chicken Wed and Fried Fish Fridays with the baked potatoes and stuff. I swear I could have gotten a heart attack messing with the Southern food. I will keep my Jamaican food anyday.

The south was cool but it's too slow for someone like me. I have to attend a NE medical school, lol.

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

I am almost positive I wasn't raised in a household like this (it seems a bit old-fashioned). That may be "normal" in certain cultures, areas of the U.S., or perceived to be that way in certain religious circles. If you look at Christianity, people tend to read and quote only part of verses to make their point.

Paul said husbands should "love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her." Ephesians 5:25

What was Christ's role, if men are to be like Christ in their relationships?

"Even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." Mark 10:45

That is a form of servant leadership.

The scripture is specific in what a man's responsibility is in marriage, he is to be the spiritual "head" in marriage. It doesn't say the relationship as a whole or any other role.

So a lot of the issue with how people interpret things have to do with reading things in context and then also not overgeneralizing statements into other areas.

I am still not sure what you meant by "A woman lets the man lead the household". In what way? Whenever I hear people make statements like this they never give specific examples, and I am really curious what is meant by this. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything that my mom does that my dad couldn't do or wouldn't be willing to do or vice versa. Do you believe there are certain traits that men have that make them a better leader in relationships, if so what?

What, does he get to decide what is on TV or what school the children attend? I don't get why they both wouldn't be able to share in the decision making process if it involves or affects everyone in the household. Why does one of them have to lead? Generally when I think of leading, it implies there is a subordinate. It doesn't mean that there isn't respect, but a leader has more authority and responsibility than a follower. Who wants to always be a follower? How could a chromosome determine one's ability to lead? Then should there not be women CEOs, because if women can't even share in the leadership role within their family should they be running multi-million/billion dollar companies?

It seems like the relationship would consist of a hierarchy; I always thought relationships were a partnership.

My dad and mom recognized their strengths and weakness and they didn't base how they operated on their gender. There was a lot of compromising though so more give and take than someone having the final authority or say.

I guess that leadership thing works for some relationships, but it may not be natural for some people. I think I would be uncomfortable in either role.

As for what is natural or not natural, I mean someone could argue that a person of African descent should not be president since for the last 200 years or so prior to 2008 every president has fallen into the category of a white male. So not only could someone argue that Obama winning re-election would be unnatural, but the fact that he was ever President in the first place is questionable.

If you think about it, if natural is doing things the way they have always been done and have worked or basing fact on trends then, the audacity of any non-white male to ever consider medicine as a career. Some people think people of color have a place too.

A black doctor would be "unnatural" then wouldn't it? I think what is natural for someone is relative to each individual based on something other than gender or race.

I only lived with my mother and sister but my father is still in my life; he just doesn't live with us. I can say that majority of the time, I will ask my mother for something but she will always say, "What did you father say, or ask your father"? She did this because my father is a blamer and we only want him to be responsible for anything that happens, if that makes sense. So if my father said No then it is NO even though I sneak and told my mother I am doing it anyway. I guess some things a man should decide and other things a woman can decide.

Relationship is a partnership but someone will always be the leader, no matter what, man lol.

 

[management]

I agree there must be order in the household and I would hate for my bf/fiance/husband to be a punk. He needs to have a backbone and know when to stand up for himself.

Yes most women do want a man who can guide her but it's hard to find a keen listener, lol.

Honestly, I love leggo since Chris Brown's video, "Look at me now". I guess that shish is cray ain't it Jay!

Man, nothing beats NY and I lived in Atlanta for three years because of school. Fried Chicken Wed and Fried Fish Fridays with the baked potatoes and stuff. I swear I could have gotten a heart attack messing with the Southern food. I will keep my Jamaican food anyday.

The south was cool but it's too slow for someone like me. I have to attend a NE medical school, lol.

Ahh, precious jewels you just dropped. That's EXACTLY what I've been waiting to hear. You CAN'T be a weak leader, and society has been good at grooming weak black men lately. See, back in the 50's and 70's, this convo wouldn't have even dropped because black men were a different type of caliber, but now, with so many single homes, with the skinny jean epidemic, and with the pushing of weak black figures by the media....well....you get my drift.

It's hard to become a powerful black men if there is none to pattern yourself from.

You can't have a weak man defending the home, and defending the relationship. JAF actually helped my argument out by mentioning those scriptures. A wife is supposed to be so important to her husband that he'll lay down his life to save hers. Now that's DEEP, and I don't think any WEAK man can do that. Even more, he's patterning himself after the same Jesus who wrecked shop in the synagogue after seeing how others had disrespected it. Think about that.....

In the same breath, there can be only one head, but also, if the husband is a servant leader, then he'll make sure his wife is taken care of.

See, if you have your man's back, and he's a true leader, yeah, he'll make sure you're taken care of...and that includes listening, even when he doesn't want to. Been there, done that lol.

And, I'll actually be in the NE this fall, so I shall see why you so admire that part of the country lol. I'll bring my screw music and swishahouse mixes with me.....

 

[JaneAustenFan]

I only lived with my mother and sister but my father is still in my life; he just doesn't live with us. I can say that majority of the time, I will ask my mother for something but she will always say, "What did you father say, or ask your father"? She did this because my father is a blamer and we only want him to be responsible for anything that happens, if that makes sense. So if my father said No then it is NO even though I sneak and told my mother I am doing it anyway. I guess some things a man should decide and other things a woman can decide.

Relationship is a partnership but someone will always be the leader, no matter what, man lol.

We tried the ask the other parent thing if my mom or dad said no and then whatever it was became an automatic no even if the second parent we asked said yes, because it was a dishonest move and my parents wanted to put on a united front.

Even though there isn't a clear "leader" in my family, my mom never makes my dad feel like he isn't important or what he feels isn't important, they just make it work.

I suppose there is not one perfect way for a relationship to work.

 

[management]

I am almost positive I wasn't raised in a household like this (it seems a bit old-fashioned). That may be "normal" in certain cultures, areas of the U.S., or perceived to be that way in certain religious circles. If you look at Christianity, people tend to read and quote only part of verses to make their point.

Paul said husbands should "love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her." Ephesians 5:25

What was Christ's role, if men are to be like Christ in their relationships?

"Even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." Mark 10:45

That is a form of servant leadership.

The scripture is specific in what a man's responsibility is in marriage, he is to be the spiritual "head" in marriage. It doesn't say the relationship as a whole or any other role.

So a lot of the issue with how people interpret things have to do with reading things in context and then also not overgeneralizing statements into other areas.

I am still not sure what you meant by "A woman lets the man lead the household". In what way? Whenever I hear people make statements like this they never give specific examples, and I am really curious what is meant by this. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything that my mom does that my dad couldn't do or wouldn't be willing to do or vice versa. Do you believe there are certain traits that men have that make them a better leader in relationships, if so what?

What, does he get to decide what is on TV or what school the children attend? I don't get why they both wouldn't be able to share in the decision making process if it involves or affects everyone in the household. Why does one of them have to lead? Generally when I think of leading, it implies there is a subordinate. It doesn't mean that there isn't respect, but a leader has more authority and responsibility than a follower. Who wants to always be a follower? How could a chromosome determine one's ability to lead? Then should there not be women CEOs, because if women can't even share in the leadership role within their family should they be running multi-million/billion dollar companies?

It seems like the relationship would consist of a hierarchy; I always thought relationships were a partnership.

My dad and mom recognized their strengths and weakness and they didn't base how they operated on their gender. There was a lot of compromising though so more give and take than someone having the final authority or say.

I guess that leadership thing works for some relationships, but it may not be natural for some people. I think I would be uncomfortable in either role.

As for what is natural or not natural, I mean someone could argue that a person of African descent should not be president since for the last 200 years or so prior to 2008 every president has fallen into the category of a white male. So not only could someone argue that Obama winning re-election would be unnatural, but the fact that he was ever President in the first place is questionable.

If you think about it, if natural is doing things the way they have always been done and have worked or basing fact on trends then, the audacity of any non-white male to ever consider medicine as a career. Some people think people of color have a place too.

A black doctor would be "unnatural" then wouldn't it? I think what is natural for someone is relative to each individual based on something other than gender or race .

I'm gonna quickly hit that last part since it is black history month. There is a difference between being 'natural' and being 'conditioned'. See, here, we have been conditioned to think that it's unnatural for a black man to aspire to greatness. What is purely unnatural is what those slaves went through and all the racism black folks have had to endure. I believe that it is natural for a black man to aspire to greatness. If you do some research on the Moors (watch Hidden Colors), and even go back to the Egyptian times, you shall see that black folks were some smart, strong, intelligent, and powerful people.

If it had not been for the interference of the King, Michelangelo would have painted a black Jesus in that chapel......but now we have a 'blond haired, blue eyed' Jesus picture on our church fans lol......conditioning.....

They still can not naturally reconstruct some pyramids in Egypt, and then a lot of our history has been hidden.....but I won't go that deep today lol.

Society has conditioned us to believe that we are less than what we are.....it is only NATURAL to rebel against such a lie, and become a MD or DO or whatever you so choose.

 

[JaneAustenFan]

Ahh, precious jewels you just dropped. That's EXACTLY what I've been waiting to hear. You CAN'T be a weak leader, and society has been good at grooming weak black men lately. See, back in the 50's and 70's, this convo wouldn't have even dropped because black men were a different type of caliber, but now, with so many single homes, with the skinny jean epidemic, and with the pushing of weak black figures by the media....well....you get my drift.

It's hard to become a powerful black men if there is none to pattern yourself from.

You can't have a weak man defending the home, and defending the relationship. JAF actually helped my argument out by mentioning those scriptures. A wife is supposed to be so important to her husband that he'll lay down his life to save hers. Now that's DEEP, and I don't think any WEAK man can do that. Even more, he's patterning himself after the same Jesus who wrecked shop in the synagogue after seeing how others had disrespected it. Think about that.....

In the same breath, there can be only one head, but also, if the husband is a servant leader, then he'll make sure his wife is taken care of.

See, if you have your man's back, and he's a true leader, yeah, he'll make sure you're taken care of...and that includes listening, even when he doesn't want to. Been there, done that lol.

And, I'll actually be in the NE this fall, so I shall see why you so admire that part of the country lol. I'll bring my screw music and swishahouse mixes with me.....

I am not arguing that people do not need to be strong in relationships and that certain abrupt changes in family structure haven't affected the home-life and relationships in black communities.

My capstone (like a thesis for undergrad) studied how the shift in gender roles affected black families, because of the way society is structured to overemphasize gender roles. People can only work with what they have, and if society makes it so that a successful household is run by a man and there are strong gender roles involved, then it would be difficult to buck that trend.

My family is fortunate enough to live in an area where gender roles are not as important. Women leaders are not uncommon and the whole world isn't falling apart because of it.

My goal isn't to change individuals, it is to improve the framework.

The successful relationships I have observed, both partners looked out for one another.

Not every woman feels the need to be led. I don't see anywhere in the scriptures I quoted where it said that men need to lead everything including the relationship itself. The scriptures were only an example of religious beliefs that speak to relationships; the whole world isn't Christian and even some people who believe in the general Christian teachings find certain passages questionable. The people that wrote the bible had their own biases-- culturally as well as in terms of gender.

Some women do not want to go from being guided or led by their parents to being led by a spouse. Some women actually do mentally mature into adults and are led by their own common sense. Children need to be led, taught and guided by their parents. Horses are led. Spouses are not children or animals. If someone needs to be guided or led, they are usually lost. So again, what exactly in the relationship are men leading?

Why would I put myself in a situation where I needed to be taken care of? My brothers and I were all taught that it is not wise for anyone to be dependent on anyone else if they can help it.

 

[JaneAustenFan]

I'm gonna quickly hit that last part since it is black history month. There is a difference between being 'natural' and being 'conditioned'. See, here, we have been conditioned to think that it's unnatural for a black man to aspire to greatness. What is purely unnatural is what those slaves went through and all the racism black folks have had to endure. I believe that it is natural for a black man to aspire to greatness. If you do some research on the Moors (watch Hidden Colors), and even go back to the Egyptian times, you shall see that black folks were some smart, strong, intelligent, and powerful people.

If it had not been for the interference of the King, Michelangelo would have painted a black Jesus in that chapel......but now we have a 'blond haired, blue eyed' Jesus picture on our church fans lol......conditioning.....

They still can not naturally reconstruct some pyramids in Egypt, and then a lot of our history has been hidden.....but I won't go that deep today lol.

Society has conditioned us to believe that we are less than what we are.....it is only NATURAL to rebel against such a lie, and become a MD or DO or whatever you so choose.

I think conditioning has been something women have experienced as well.

There was a time when it seemed unnatural for a women to pursue any interests outside of the home.

A school or a career was seen as something men did.

Anyone who has studied biology knows that nature is not as limited as humans' traditions. Things adapt and change.

I would love a resource/link on the would be black Jesus; first time I have heard that.

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

Ahh, precious jewels you just dropped. That's EXACTLY what I've been waiting to hear. You CAN'T be a weak leader, and society has been good at grooming weak black men lately. See, back in the 50's and 70's, this convo wouldn't have even dropped because black men were a different type of caliber, but now, with so many single homes, with the skinny jean epidemic, and with the pushing of weak black figures by the media....well....you get my drift.

It's hard to become a powerful black men if there is none to pattern yourself from.

You can't have a weak man defending the home, and defending the relationship. JAF actually helped my argument out by mentioning those scriptures. A wife is supposed to be so important to her husband that he'll lay down his life to save hers. Now that's DEEP, and I don't think any WEAK man can do that. Even more, he's patterning himself after the same Jesus who wrecked shop in the synagogue after seeing how others had disrespected it. Think about that.....

In the same breath, there can be only one head, but also, if the husband is a servant leader, then he'll make sure his wife is taken care of.

See, if you have your man's back, and he's a true leader, yeah, he'll make sure you're taken care of...and that includes listening, even when he doesn't want to. Been there, done that lol.

And, I'll actually be in the NE this fall, so I shall see why you so admire that part of the country lol. I'll bring my screw music and swishahouse mixes with me.....

It's sad that there are a plethora of weak black men in this society. I guess there aren't enough leaders for them to look up to, especially in a single parent household. But there are some dudes that I know who grew up with two parents and still became weak men. What is your opinion on that?

Everyone should find their purpose in life and literally walk with a purpose as well ^_^. Walk like you're on a mission, even if you're not!

Idk about the listening part because I can talk for a long time and because my voice is very unusual a lot of people hate listening to it for a long period of time .

How far NE are you heading? Is it New York or is it borderline NE like DC? I will tell you this there is NO STATE and I MEAN NO STATE that is LIKE NEW YORK ^_^. The farthest I will go for medical school is DC. I will hate to cross pass the Mason-Dixon line but if I had no other choice then I will

You better take that country bumpkin music out of here, lol. What is screw music though and if anything bring Waka Flocka, "No hands" and "Round of Applause". I am soooo upset that I won't be in the country to attend the SNMA Conference that is in Atlanta this year. I know it will be fantastic and wild crazy, son.

Also, with the skinny jeans epidemic it was meant for the Shotta bwoys in Jamaica (I am half Jamaican) but of course Americans took it out of context

So you're attending medical school next fall, if so, congratulations ^_^.

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

I am not arguing that people do not need to be strong in relationships and that certain abrupt changes in family structure haven't affected the home-life and relationships in black communities.

My capstone (like a thesis for undergrad) studied how the shift in gender roles affected black families, because of the way society is structured to overemphasize gender roles. People can only work with what they have, and if society makes it so that a successful household is run by a man and there are strong gender roles involved, then it would be difficult to buck that trend.

My family is fortunate enough to live in an area where gender roles are not as important. Women leaders are not uncommon and the whole world isn't falling apart because of it.

My goal isn't to change individuals, it is to improve the framework.

The successful relationships I have observed, both partners looked out for one another.

Not every woman feels the need to be led. I don't see anywhere in the scriptures I quoted where it said that men need to lead everything including the relationship itself. The scriptures were only an example of religious beliefs that speak to relationships; the whole world isn't Christian and even some people who believe in the general Christian teachings find certain passages questionable. The people that wrote the bible had their own biases-- culturally as well as in terms of gender.

Some women do not want to go from being guided or led by their parents to being led by a spouse. Some women actually do mentally mature into adults and are led by their own common sense. Children need to be led, taught and guided by their parents. Horses are led. Spouses are not children or animals. If someone needs to be guided or led, they are usually lost. So again, what exactly in the relationship are men leading?

Why would I put myself in a situation where I needed to be taken care of? My brothers and I were all taught that it is not wise for anyone to be dependent on anyone else if they can help it.

I was brought up that way too, Jane, but I think you are blowing it out of context. He means that the husband will love to provide for his family the best way he can because if he doesn't he will feel less like a man. Whether is doing the laundry, putting food on the table, and/or attending parent teacher conference, a husband wants to make sure that he is notice for doing his fatherly/husband duties.

I don't think he meant led like being led by a horse. I think he means your spouse making sure you are focus on your dreams and purpose in life. I guess your spouse should make sure you're on point as always and be your motivator because like we stated before it's a TEAM effort. If I am in medical school and my bf is on his medical grind and doing what he needs to do to hit a top specialty then I feel like I am slacking which will force me to work harder like my bf. We want to be on the same page and technically on the same level. You can't be on the prologue and your spouse is on the epilogue because the relationship won't work. That is why professional people mostly date professional people and crackheads will always date crackheads.

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

I'm gonna quickly hit that last part since it is black history month. There is a difference between being 'natural' and being 'conditioned'. See, here, we have been conditioned to think that it's unnatural for a black man to aspire to greatness. What is purely unnatural is what those slaves went through and all the racism black folks have had to endure. I believe that it is natural for a black man to aspire to greatness. If you do some research on the Moors (watch Hidden Colors), and even go back to the Egyptian times, you shall see that black folks were some smart, strong, intelligent, and powerful people.

If it had not been for the interference of the King, Michelangelo would have painted a black Jesus in that chapel......but now we have a 'blond haired, blue eyed' Jesus picture on our church fans lol......conditioning.....

They still can not naturally reconstruct some pyramids in Egypt, and then a lot of our history has been hidden.....but I won't go that deep today lol.

Society has conditioned us to believe that we are less than what we are.....it is only NATURAL to rebel against such a lie, and become a MD or DO or whatever you so choose.

I did not learn that in my AP European class in HS, what chapter or topic was it under

 

[2012mdc]

It's sad that there are a plethora of weak black men in this society. I guess there aren't enough leaders for them to look up to, especially in a single parent household. But there are some dudes that I know who grew up with two parents and still became weak men. What is your opinion on that?

Everyone should find their purpose in life and literally walk with a purpose as well ^_^. Walk like you're on a mission, even if you're not!

Idk about the listening part because I can talk for a long time and because my voice is very unusual a lot of people hate listening to it for a long period of time .

How far NE are you heading? Is it New York or is it borderline NE like DC? I will tell you this there is NO STATE and I MEAN NO STATE that is LIKE NEW YORK ^_^. The farthest I will go for medical school is DC. I will hate to cross pass the Mason-Dixon line but if I had no other choice then I will

You better take that country bumpkin music out of here, lol. What is screw music though and if anything bring Waka Flocka, "No hands" and "Round of Applause". I am soooo upset that I won't be in the country to attend the SNMA Conference that is in Atlanta this year. I know it will be fantastic and wild crazy, son.

Also, with the skinny jeans epidemic it was meant for the Shotta bwoys in Jamaica (I am half Jamaican) but of course Americans took it out of context

So you're attending medical school next fall, if so, congratulations ^_^.

SNMA 3 years ago in New Orleans was wild. I expect Atlanta to represent as well. I know us 4th years post-Match will be getting it in

 

[Sailor Senshi Dermystify]

SNMA 3 years ago in New Orleans was wild. I expect Atlanta to represent as well. I know us 4th years post-Match will be getting it in

Ahhh you're making me jealous. I guess a lot of the 4th year students will go to Magic City as a treat, eh?

My alma mater is in Atlanta and I would love to party like a rockstar in Atlanta. Man, they need to do one in Miami or Cali soon ^_^