What degree would you all consider getting after a Pharm.D.? I don't want to waste time sitting in a classroom anymore, but would consider getting another degree instead of going into a residency and taking a pay cut.
Degree After Pharm.D.?
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Please, no more education creep. Some wacko actually wants PGY-3 to happen.
Just implement better competency standards or introduce more board exams during pharmacy school so we don't end up in school or training forever.
Of course, you could always join us in the red/flyover/trump-voting states. With a solid work history, you won't need no stinking residency to land a hospital job.
Just implement better competency standards or introduce more board exams during pharmacy school so we don't end up in school or training forever.
Of course, you could always join us in the red/flyover/trump-voting states. With a solid work history, you won't need no stinking residency to land a hospital job.
1) These two parts of your statement seem to be an oxymoron. You don't want to spend more time in a classroom, yet you'll do just that by getting another degree.
2) You complain about taking a pay cut, yet your plan is to pay for more education after you graduate?
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Can you please show me where I said I was not going to use my pharm.d. in my previous post?
Your input just sounds like whining
Have you heard of online degrees?
& yes I'd rather make more money and use it as I wish instead of someone deciding I deserve less just because I am getting further training.
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I've thought about getting a math degree in addition to Pharm D. I am considering going MD or DO after Pharm, just to get the other spectrum of patient care. I think it would be interesting to have a well rounded aspect on how drugs work and apply that knowledge in diagnosis.
Which red states are you referring to? I'm in the southeast, and I've been told that it's getting pretty hard to land a hospital position here, even as a residency graduate. I don't know if this is true, but I was told that one of the local hospitals graduates 10-12+ pharmacists from their residency program every year and that they've only hired 1 or 2 in the last several years. I'm not in a desirable (for the southeast) area like Atlanta.
No, there's not really another degree, especially an online degree, that'll "supplement" a pharmD and help gain access to other careers. Residency is the only thing that really fits that criteria.
Also, quite frankly, you seem overly defensive to some of the responses.
Also, quite frankly, you seem overly defensive to some of the responses.
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I've been trolling and making fun of the pharmd degree. And I will probably say something about the pharmacy organizations and their leaders. And I might go too far with my comments. So I won't be able to give you a exact location. I'll give you a clue; it was never a part of the Confederacy. That's as descriptive as I will get.
I don't know what the situation is like in Georgia. But where I live, the hospitals will hire you without a residency. But these are small community hospitals, not large academic hospitals. Whenever they post an opening, they put under the requirements: ASHP-accredited residency preferred. So not having a residency does not disqualify you. Out of the last three positions that had opened, which were all for clinical/staff hybrid pharmacists, none of the hires had done a residency. Residency does not necessarily assure you a full-time position. It might not even give you an advantage over a candidate who has not done a residency. It is who you know that matters.
What is key is networking. If you have family involved in hospital or retail pharmacy, use that connection to get a tech job and build a work history as a pharmacy tech. If not, ask any friends if they can help you get a tech job. If not, then send applications out to as many hospital and retail locations as you can. If you want to start with a less hectic environment, go do hospital. But if you're ready to take on the Horde, go fight it out in retail. Do whatever you can to get that first job. You will have to learn a lot in a very short time, but with experience, you will be more attractive to employers. Use that first job to apply for tech positions in a more desirable settings later on.
By working as a tech, you will be building a rapport with your colleagues and your superiors. In retail, senior techs and the pharmacists will help you out when it comes to impressing management and landing a job as a pharmacist (you need to know your metrics!) If you jive well with your coworkers, they will look out for you. There is nothing worse than an inefficient team that cannot work together. If you help them keep management off their backs, you are gold.
In the hospital setting, you are basically auditioning yourself. You are building a relationship with the senior pharmacists and the DOP. They will be the ones who will ultimately hire you. If you have them on your side, it will give you a tremendous advantage when positions open. If they know you have applied, then a phone call from the DOP will whisk your application down to the pharmacy for immediate review. Apps from other candidates will rot away in HR limbo.
Do not underestimate the power of having an inside connection.
It might not seem fair, but internal applicants will always get a higher priority than an outsider. Specs like GPA, research experience, volunteering, holding a leadership position in school clubs (which are all meaningless in the real world) will have negligible influence on being hired.
If all this fails, then residency will give you another opportunity to build rapport. The ASHP claims that residency is preparing pharmacy students for emerging roles (Ha!) but you need to treat it as another opportunity to network and get an advantage in the hiring process.
You have to be vigilant. Use any avenue and opportunity to increase your chances of employment after graduation.
DO NOT BE THAT PHARMACY STUDENT WHO NEVER WORKED BEFORE GRADUATION. Do not make that mistake and end up unemployed.
And finally...
If you have to get another degree after the PharmD, then you did it wrong.
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I do recommend seeking an additional degree, especially if you are seeking a job in an abominable market (like NYC+Long Island), or are 2+ years away from graduating.
After 125 days on the job market since December, all-in, graduated, licensed, moved back, when can you start "tomorrow," aggressively applying to 157 different jobs I finally landed a full-time position. Not surprisingly this is in a position that does not require a PharmD but does require an MBA and experience in pharmaceuticals, health care and managed care.
In my opinion the MBA is the best suited for non-traditional pharmacist work. Roles for an MPH or MPA would require too much of a salary cut compared to traditional pharmacist work.
All-in my AACSB accredited live-in-person MBA only cost me 32k with 7 months of opportunity cost out of the job market (19,215 in tuition and 12,530 in loan refunds to live on).
Residencies and fellowships just kick the can down the road. You need plans A, B, C, D, E, and F for finding permanent pharmacist employment, so start planning early!
After 125 days on the job market since December, all-in, graduated, licensed, moved back, when can you start "tomorrow," aggressively applying to 157 different jobs I finally landed a full-time position. Not surprisingly this is in a position that does not require a PharmD but does require an MBA and experience in pharmaceuticals, health care and managed care.
In my opinion the MBA is the best suited for non-traditional pharmacist work. Roles for an MPH or MPA would require too much of a salary cut compared to traditional pharmacist work.
All-in my AACSB accredited live-in-person MBA only cost me 32k with 7 months of opportunity cost out of the job market (19,215 in tuition and 12,530 in loan refunds to live on).
Residencies and fellowships just kick the can down the road. You need plans A, B, C, D, E, and F for finding permanent pharmacist employment, so start planning early!
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Congratulations. I have to admit, I was starting to get a little worried for ya. If I may ask, what job did you end up landing?
I'm personally not a proponent of an MBA unless you've got a job already waiting for you upon graduation, but I'm glad it worked out for you.
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Thank you for your congratulations and genuine concern TheBlaah.
Now we can both focus our worry to the new Class of 2016 and beyond.
I am a full-time management consultant at a consulting firm that specializes in the pharmaceutical industry.
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FFS why do people entertain the thought of getting a MD or DO after a PharmD especially if they had prior undergrad education? The correct time to decide was BEFORE inflicting a huge sunk cost on yourself (time lost and money lost doing a PharmD).
MPH or another masters would do very little to augment a PharmD. As you can see, it might open doors to non-traditional roles that don't really utilize pharmacist education.
MPH or another masters would do very little to augment a PharmD. As you can see, it might open doors to non-traditional roles that don't really utilize pharmacist education.
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An MPH might make you a more attractive candidate for an NIH/CDC/public health job.
As for an MD/DO... it was something I figured out during pharmacy school that I wanted to do. It should not br something you are planning on doing prior to medical school (my opinion). Essentially, my route was 3+3 for the PharmD with another 4 for medical school. The degree definitely made me stand out among other candidates for medical residency. Matched a very competitive position and am very happy.
As for an MD/DO... it was something I figured out during pharmacy school that I wanted to do. It should not br something you are planning on doing prior to medical school (my opinion). Essentially, my route was 3+3 for the PharmD with another 4 for medical school. The degree definitely made me stand out among other candidates for medical residency. Matched a very competitive position and am very happy.
Yes because I thought SDN would be troll free instead, but seems like a bunch of bored reddit users on here now.
I am looking to go non-traditonal. Do you mind if I PM you?
How can you imply going non-traditional PHARMACY would deter from a PHARM.D. education? What do you base this on?
There's many different paths for to become an IT pharmacist. In some cases, if they're knowledgeable enough, a nurse could become the Informatics person for the hospital. Generally though, they promote the informatics person from within based on whomover seems most involved with it. A computer engineering degree doesn't really help since it's more based on your familiarity with their system.
It depends on the computer system the hospital uses though in terms of training. For Epic, you're sent to corporate for several weeks for training. For meditech/CPSI, you may attend local training seminars every now and then. Some informatic pharmacists are "consultants" almost, and travel around hospital helping to ease the conversion into the system.
There's a PGY2 residency for informatics, but it's not worth it in my opinion.
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I wrote the line "If you have to get another degree after the PharmD, then you did it wrong." at the end of my previous post.
Then I read your post about the awful pharmacist market in the tristate area and immediately had a flashback to when a friend of mine graduated from Rutgers pharmacy school. He had a hard time finding employment; only after nine grueling months of applying did he finally land a job in industry. This was back in 2009. Since then, several more schools of pharmacy have opened in this region of the country. I don't know how the ACPE justifies allowing this to happen. Even the most vigilant students would have a hard time finding meaningful employment in such an area.
The job market is no cakewalk here in BFE. You cannot simply expect a job without having worked during school. But I forget that certain regions of this country have odds so highly stacked against the pharmacy graduates that any effort, no matter how hard the graduates try, is impossible to beat.
I guess an additional degree may be warranted for pharmacists stuck in such an awful market. However, it is really unfortunate that these students are left to reinvent themselves after having worked so hard to get a PharmD.
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It would depend on what career I'm aiming for and whether I think the investment in another degree would be financially sound. Also, working while earning a degree (which I am assuming you're talking about) would be somewhat stressful for me. I'd rather choose to either go all in as a pharmacist or all in as pharmacy resident. Not either pharmacist/student in another degree or pharmacy resident. When you're a pharmacist starting out, it can come with its own stresses as well and I don't think I want to come home after work to study on some difficult subject when customers/office politics/doctors/nurses can mentally drain you. YMMV.
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You need a PharmD and a few years of experience to be a serious candidate. No amount of degrees or certifications will replace the knowledge you gain from real work experience. It's important to understand what you are doing, why you are doing it, and what it's impact is on nursing, doctors, and patients.
There are PGY2s in informatics, but it's hard for me to recommend that considering I found a position after a little over two years of working at a hospital at full pay.
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Little to augment != "deter"
Lol no... Not really at all lol
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I am so glad that you used the word re-invent @Pharmd = Phake Doctor .
Timeline for Current P1-4's:
Class of 2016: Complete personal branding workbook to make C.V more attractive.
Class of 2017: Complete additional degree to be competitive.
Class of 2018: Get hired for being an MBA/MPH/MHA/MS who happens to have a Pharm.D.
Class of 2019: Pharm.D. is an afterthought, bury it on C.V.
Class of 2020: Completely re-invent yourself.
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Oh, I didn't see the part where you said non-traditional PHARMACY.
You can do non-traditional work that may even happen to require a PharmD but in no way actually requires additional education beyond pharmacy education. Think of all the industry roles out there. You don't need additional education to do drug info, drug safety, medical affairs, clinical research, or anything else related to clinical development. In no way are you actually working as a pharmacist in these roles.
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Class of '16 looks most attractive. Class of '20 is f*****.
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It depends. What do you plan to do with your life? Are you just getting a degree for the sake of getting a degree? Do you plan on getting an additional degree during school or after school? What role are you in now?
I'm a proponent of the MBA. Graduating from a top 10 pharmacy school that offers a dual PharmD/MBA program at no additional cost/time, it was a no brainer for me. Depending on the position you are interested in, an MBA is a pre-req / preferred trait to make you a competitive candidate for academic medical center management/director positions if your graduating circa 2011-2012 and beyond. It IS a requirment for certain managed care employers.
You can't ask the question in such a vaque manner.
I'm a proponent of the MBA. Graduating from a top 10 pharmacy school that offers a dual PharmD/MBA program at no additional cost/time, it was a no brainer for me. Depending on the position you are interested in, an MBA is a pre-req / preferred trait to make you a competitive candidate for academic medical center management/director positions if your graduating circa 2011-2012 and beyond. It IS a requirment for certain managed care employers.
You can't ask the question in such a vaque manner.
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