Demographics of incoming med school classes

[LizzyM]

This was just passed along to me by a friend.
Yale
Class of 2018 (as of July 7)
The new class truly reflects the outstanding accomplishments and diversity of personal background and experience that is a hallmark of our student body. Here are some key numbers:

• Class size: 104 students
• 87 M.D. students, 17 M.D./Ph.D. students
• 51 men, 53 women
• 19 from groups traditionally underrepresented in medicine
• 15 international students
• Graduates of 48 undergraduate colleges
• 71 are not coming directly from college
• 17 have advanced degrees, including three Ph.D.s

I'd be interested in figures such as this from any other schools.

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[Theafoni]

Interesting.

 

[Lamel]

Non-traditional applicants have become the traditional applicants.

EDIT: I'll put this over here as well to stay on the first page

For UPenn 2013 entering class:

Class Size:

• 168 Matriculants
• 46% Female
• 54% Male

Demographics:

• 19% PA Residents
• 81% Out-of-State Residents
• 45% Black, Hispanic, Asian, or Native Americans
• 60% Non-traditional students
• 14% Combined Degree (MD/PhD)

Average Age:

• Average Age is ~23 (20-32)

Academics:
Median MCAT:

• • VR 11
  • PS 13
  • BS 13
• Median GPA 3.86
• 71% Science Majors
• 29% Non-Science Majors

Harvard:

Make-up of the incoming class:
Members of the Fall 2013 HMS entering class::

• from 72 undergraduate institutions, 32 states and 8 foreign countries
• 80% of whom majored in the sciences
• 54% are women, 46% are men
• 18% are from groups that are traditionally underrepresented in medicine
• the class ranges in age from 21-32
  • average GPA: 3.8
  • average MCAT scores were:
  • Verbal-11.2
    Physical Science-12.55
    Biological Science-12.61

Northwestern: http://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/admissions/process/class-profile.html (more details at link)

Class of 2017:

• 7000+ applicants
• 91 Men, 63 Women
• 71 different undergaduate majors
• 32 different languages spoken - most common are Chinese, Spanish, French
• 22 (14.2%) Non-traditional students (defined as 2+ years off before medical school)
• Age range: 21-31
• 75 undergraduate universities
• 33 states, 10 foreign countries
• Average stats: cGPA = 3.82, sGPA = 3.79, MCAT = 35.3
• 

 

[deleted480308]

the 71 not directly from college is interesting

 

[EMDO2018]

How many are poor and/or first generation college students???

 

[darkjedi]

Non-traditional applicants have become the traditional applicants.

yup, my year and the year after are 60% "non traditional"

 

[Lamel]

yup, my year and the year after are 60% "non traditional"

Kind of makes me feel a bit uneasy honestly, so many people having an extra year over me will likely have time to further strengthen their apps.

 

[lmn]

This was just passed along to me by a friend.
Yale
Class of 2018 (as of July 7)
The new class truly reflects the outstanding accomplishments and diversity of personal background and experience that is a hallmark of our student body. Here are some key numbers:

• Class size: 104 students
• 87 M.D. students, 17 M.D./Ph.D. students
• 51 men, 53 women
• 19 from groups traditionally underrepresented in medicine
• 15 international students
• Graduates of 48 undergraduate colleges
• 71 are not coming directly from college
• 17 have advanced degrees, including three Ph.D.s

I'd be interested in figures such as this from any other schools.

Thanks for sharing, very interesting

Kind of makes me feel a bit uneasy honestly, so many people having an extra year over me will likely have time to further strengthen their apps.

I wouldn't be too pessimistic, not every non-trad has been on the pre-med track throughout all of college. Plenty of people have to use that time to just meet basic requirements due to focusing on something else during their undergrad.

 

[kyamh]

I'll take the comment @lmn made in a slightly different direction:

While older students may spend the post undergrad time "catching up" to students who were pre-med from day 1, older applicants will often have better applications specifically because they focused on something else in their undergrad: this is that elusive "unique" factor that applicants drool over. The most "unique" applicants you can think of are unique because they have a significant accomplishment in an area outside of medicine/research/biological science.

Is it necessary to take time off? I don't think so, 33 students who got into Yale didn't. Is it a positive in your application? Definitely.

 

[Lawpy]

Personally, I'm curious about the 33 who didn't take a year off and still got into Yale. Those guys are, IMO, pretty unique applicants (though I anticipate they're from HYPSM or related top schools)

 

[popopopop]

Texas A&M does a good job summarizing their applicants data. They haven't posted class of 2018 yet.

 

[hoihaie]

wow i wanna know how amazing those other directly from college applicants are.

 

[allantois]

I am just glad there are states with strong IS preferences that prevent OOS applicants (primarily from northeastern states) from driving this trend everywhere else.
I also don't believe that this is necessarily improving the quality of healthcare provided to the American public.

While some schools establish such high standards, which aren't really up to them since it's driven by applicants more than anyone else, there are a few DO schools who admit students who are barely academically qualified to enter medical school.

I honestly cannot think of any interest that I would want to pursue outside of medicine(healthcare). I wouldn't mind providing primary care, but I would mind working in a research lab for years in order to get into medical school.

This is also not solving shortage of primary care physicians and that's why we see PAs and NPs (or more like DNPs now) step up and take the initiative when physicians obviously cannot solve the shortage. If I was told that I had to pursue PhD before MD, I swear I would go into nursing/PA.

Doctors are becoming more educated and better trained; yet many times your problem with your doctor, is not really in the doctor, but with the other staff in their office or other non-physician issues. As a patient, I don't care if my cardiologist/dermatologist/surgeon has a PhD or has a great understanding of African archaeology/(insert any other unique knowledge not relevant to medicine)

Also, how does staying in the ivory tower to pursue more advanced degrees make you better prepared to deal with the public? If anything it further alienates us from the real world outside of academia.

 

[Lawpy]

I noticed that non-traditional matriculants have become the majority in many places in the Northeastern US. This is not the case in the South though.

I will try to update this comment to include information from FL schools.

Yeah it's weird. This didn't happen 5-10 years ago

 

[Kochanie]

Wow, I'm just going to give up now.

 

[Narmerguy]

Hopefully this encourages more people to take some time off. I think most people will actually benefit from it independent from all this medical stuff. It's just good for your development as a person imo.

 

[Kochanie]

Texas A&M does a good job summarizing their applicants data. They haven't posted class of 2018 yet.

Is being bilingual/first generation a big plus?

 

[minor.groove]

while it favors me, as a "non-traditional applicant" I wonder how this will play out long term towards the doctor shortage... I assume, though don't know for a fact, that the later (even just an additional year) a person starts down this career path the less years they spend actually in as practicing physicians (and perhaps the more likely to choose higher paying specialities to offset lost earning years). The more doctors that retire every year, the more you have to produce just to stay in the same place.....

 

[nemo123]

Cornell doesn't give numbers regarding traditional vs. non-traditional applicants, but they do post this on their website for last year's class... Note the oldest person in the class :

Men 58
Women 43
Age range 21-53 years; mean 24.3 years
Underrepresented in Medicine 19
MD/PhD candidates 18
Colleges represented 58
Science majors 58
Non-science majors 34
Double Major, Science/Non-science 9
US citizens or permanent residents 97
Non-US citizens 4
AMCAS fee assistance recipient and/or first generation college 16
Matriculants 101

 

[Lawpy]

Cornell doesn't give numbers regarding traditional vs. non-traditional applicants, but they do post this on their website for last year's class... Note the oldest person in the class :

Men 58
Women 43
Age range 21-53 years; mean 24.3 years
Underrepresented in Medicine 19
MD/PhD candidates 18
Colleges represented 58
Science majors 58
Non-science majors 34
Double Major, Science/Non-science 9
US citizens or permanent residents 97
Non-US citizens 4
AMCAS fee assistance recipient and/or first generation college 16
Matriculants 101

Oldest is 53?! Well @Goro has a challenge

 

[Ace-Co-A]

Personally, I'm curious about the 33 who didn't take a year off and still got into Yale. Those guys are, IMO, pretty unique applicants (though I anticipate they're from HYPSM or related top schools)

Why?

 

[Lawpy]

Why?

What do you mean?

 

[DermViser]

This was just passed along to me by a friend.
Yale
Class of 2018 (as of July 7)
The new class truly reflects the outstanding accomplishments and diversity of personal background and experience that is a hallmark of our student body. Here are some key numbers:

• Class size: 104 students
• 87 M.D. students, 17 M.D./Ph.D. students
• 51 men, 53 women
• 19 from groups traditionally underrepresented in medicine
• 15 international students
• Graduates of 48 undergraduate colleges
• 71 are not coming directly from college
• 17 have advanced degrees, including three Ph.D.s

I'd be interested in figures such as this from any other schools.

I'm more interested in the socioeconomic status of those students.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

What do you mean?

Your comment seemed speculative.

 

[Lawpy]

Your comment seemed speculative.

Not really. Stating that Yale favors ivy students isn't exactly surprising

 

[Ace-Co-A]

Not really. Stating that Yale favors ivy students isn't exactly surprising

Who knows? is all I'm saying. It might not be surprising. On the other hand, a lot of Top Tier schools prize diversity.

 

[Lawpy]

Who knows? is all I'm saying. It might not be surprising. On the other hand, a lot of Top Tier schools prize diversity.

Ok? I'm just saying these trads coming from top schools that make up most, if not all, of the 33 is something that's likely

 

[Ace-Co-A]

Ok? I'm just saying these trads coming from top schools that make up most, if not all, of the 33 is something that's likely

I'm only saying that there might be a preference for Ivy grads at Yale, and there might not be. You offer no reason to believe what you're saying, other than that it is 'likely'). That's all.

Btw amigo, I'm not sure that we're achieving anything with this digression. Apologies for the off-topic conversation.

 

[minor.groove]

Ok? I'm just saying these trads coming from top schools that make up most, if not all, of the 33 is something that's likely

Sure but there are plenty of schools any adcom will respect as much or more than the Ivies (MIT, Cal Tech, UC Berkley, Stanford, UCLA, etc etc etc....)

 

[jvquarterback]

So 60% of incoming students are wasting more time with gap years. I think this hurts the medical profession. It isn't like these people are out there making tons of money to pay for medical school. They have less time to work after school and residency and more debt. Medicine is becoming much worse in terms of a financial decision. I don't think I'd go for it now without someone else willing to foot the bill.

 

[Lawpy]

I'm only saying that there might be a preference for Ivy grads at Yale, and there might not be. You offer no reason to believe what you're saying, other than that it is 'likely'). That's all.

Btw amigo, I'm not sure that we're achieving anything with this digression. Apologies for the off-topic conversation.

Except from what was seen recent years, it's more likely true than not. Listen, i'll be very interested in a trad applicant who isn't from a top school who got into Yale. That, IMO, is what makes it unique

 

[Lawpy]

Sure but there are plenty of schools any adcom will respect as much or more than the Ivies (MIT, Cal Tech, UC Berkley, Stanford, UCLA, etc etc etc....)

Ivy is a blanket statement to include all top schools. Anyways, we'll continue this digression later

 

[allantois]

So 60% of incoming students are wasting more time with gap years. I think this hurts the medical profession. It isn't like these people are out there making tons of money to pay for medical school. They have less time to work after school and residency and more debt. Medicine is becoming much worse in terms of a financial decision. I don't think I'd go for it now without someone else willing to foot the bill.

It just leaves me wonder whether all those students are coming from extremely wealthy families. I mean who in their right mind would want to live "like a student" for their 30-40 years of life.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

...what was seen recent years...

I'm asking for the list of people who have been accepted at Yale which you seem to have in your head, but won't post...

But it doesn't matter.

 

[Lawpy]

I'm asking for the list of people who have been accepted at Yale which you seem to have in your head, but won't post...

But it doesn't matter.

Wat. It's there in old threads and groups and other stuff lol. C'mon man lol

 

[2Pints]

while it favors me, as a "non-traditional applicant" I wonder how this will play out long term towards the doctor shortage... I assume, though don't know for a fact, that the later (even just an additional year) a person starts down this career path the less years they spend actually in as practicing physicians (and perhaps the more likely to choose higher paying specialities to offset lost earning years). The more doctors that retire every year, the more you have to produce just to stay in the same place.....

Maybe it will balance out though. How many people drop out of med school or finish and realize they hadn't explored other options. If a non trad takes on med school or if somebody takes a gap year then maybe they are more likely to stay in the profession. I'm so grateful I didn't go to med school when I originally planned. I will be a better doctor because of it and I won't start questioning if something else would e better because I've already tried those paths.

 

[Frostbite22]

wow i wanna know how amazing those other directly from college applicants are.

I wonder if some of those students may be non-traditional as well? Meaning maybe they didn't go to college until they were 22? Just a thought.

 

[allantois]

Maybe it will balance out though. How many people drop out of med school or finish and realize they hadn't explored other options. If a non trad takes on med school or if somebody takes a gap year then maybe they are more likely to stay in the profession. I'm so grateful I didn't go to med school when I originally planned. I will be a better doctor because of it and I won't start questioning if something else would e better because I've already tried those paths.

NOT many. About 4 percent overall (less than 1 percent for Caucasians and Asians)

https://www.aamc.org/download/102346/data/aibvol7no2.pdf

 

[Essee]

So 60% of incoming students are wasting more time with gap years. I think this hurts the medical profession. It isn't like these people are out there making tons of money to pay for medical school. They have less time to work after school and residency and more debt. Medicine is becoming much worse in terms of a financial decision. I don't think I'd go for it now without someone else willing to foot the bill.

Wasting time? A person's life isn't defined by the singular goal of becoming a doctor, you know.

 

[jvquarterback]

Yes wasting time. I'd say one in 20 gap years is more than that.

 

[Essee]

Yes wasting time. I'd say one in 20 gap years is more than that.

It's a waste of time if your only life purpose is to become a doctor. Most people though, want to experience more than that. There's a lot to be learned when you're not inside the ivory tower student bubble.

 

[jvquarterback]

What did you do during your gap year that led you to enlightenment? Please share.

Sorry I'm being a bit snarky but all these people who say they don't regret taking a gap year are missing not only the loss of pay but they're wasting a year now when they could give that year later and do a whole lot more good.

If you really want to take a gap year for something fulfilling wait until you have a useful skill to give to others. I have friends who spent a couple months in South America fixing cleft palates after residency which is more good than 20 gap years taken by a useless post-bacc. Most of the gap years I hear about are pretty lame. RA or math tutor. Come on. Why not play video games for a year?

 

[Narmerguy]

while it favors me, as a "non-traditional applicant" I wonder how this will play out long term towards the doctor shortage... I assume, though don't know for a fact, that the later (even just an additional year) a person starts down this career path the less years they spend actually in as practicing physicians (and perhaps the more likely to choose higher paying specialities to offset lost earning years). The more doctors that retire every year, the more you have to produce just to stay in the same place.....

It won't really have any affect on the doctor shortage. Students entering the career at a later age (i.e. 2 years on average) will not be felt until they start hitting retirement (i.e. 30 years from now). US population growth is not rapidly increasing as it was during the baby boom, such that the population will actually likely stabilize or even contract like we've seen in some developed countries. More importantly, it's likely that technological innovations will be such that a doctor in 30 years will have increased productivity and efficiency compared to doctors today, such that the same work force would be able to output more care. Too many competing trends to really say (without some sophisticated analysis) whether people taking one or two years off will impact the doctor shortage, but given that the delay is only a couple years and the competing trends are on a much greater scale, it's likely that this will not have any meaningful effect.

So 60% of incoming students are wasting more time with gap years. I think this hurts the medical profession. It isn't like these people are out there making tons of money to pay for medical school. They have less time to work after school and residency and more debt. Medicine is becoming much worse in terms of a financial decision. I don't think I'd go for it now without someone else willing to foot the bill.

Why does taking gap years mean they'll have "more debt"? If you're simply talking about the growth in medical school costs that's hardly a significant change over a 1-3 year span. Furthermore, many of these people taking gap years may very well be working during those years, so they will not have worked any fewer years than their peers going straight though--just fewer of their work-years will be as a physician (and we're talking about a difference of ~2 years in a 30+ year career). Furthermore, the less time to work after school isn't really relevant since most doctors will clear their student loans within 10-20 years from graduating.

This is much ado about nothing, neither the profession nor students will not be worse off for taking gap years. There are actually additional arguments that the profession will benefit from students being more mature and better prepared for school/work as a result of the experience and growth that occurs during gap years. This means better care for patients down the line and possibly less burnout and greater wellness among the workforce.

 

[Kochanie]

It's a waste of time if your only life purpose is to become a doctor. Most people though, want to experience more than that. There's a lot to be learned when you're not inside the ivory tower student bubble.

From what I've seen, most premed students don't exactly "experience life" during their gap years, unless they've already gotten in. The people I know who had to take gap years worked, did post-baccs/masters, and stressed out.

 

[Lawpy]

From what I've seen, most premed students don't exactly "experience life" during their gap years, unless they've already gotten in. The people I know who had to take gap years worked, did post-baccs/masters, and stressed out.

That's unfortunate. Gap years are meant to be a great, school-free, relaxing time to enjoy what you're passionate about. It's not supposed to be stressful

 

[allantois]

From what I've seen, most premed students don't exactly "experience life" during their gap years, unless they've already gotten in. The people I know who had to take gap years worked, did post-baccs/masters, and stressed out.

Most of the talk you see on SDN about gap years is all about buffing up one's application for medical school. There is very little talk on experiencing life.

This means better care for patients down the line and possibly less burnout and greater wellness among the workforce.

This is just a pure speculation with perhaps no way to prove it or disprove it.

 

[LizzyM]

I don't know any of these folks personally but based on what I know of non-trads:

Do you know that some of these folks who have taken time off since undergrad have earned a masters degree and/or doctorate? Some may have served in the military, pursued a career as a professional athlete or musician, or worked as a teacher, nurse or pharmacist? Some have worked a few years in a lab. Some may have worked in business or law or engineering before deciding that medicine would be more fulfilling.

Also, Yale does not intend to train primary care providers. The Yale System is designed to produce the next generation of physician-investigators who will populate medical school faculties. A thesis is required for graduation and it has been that way for decades. Clearly, it isn't the place for people who are interested solely in primary care.

 

[Narmerguy]

This is just a pure speculation with perhaps no way to prove it or disprove it.

I don't think it's unheard of that people who matriculate into medical school with more work experience or maturity might be more likely to be better equipped to deal with the grind and frustrations of medical training. It actually wouldn't be hard to support if survey data exists on burnout rates or career satisfaction for physicians and compares them for physicians who entered medical training directly after college vs with some sort of gap experience. As I said before, I'm not declaring this to be the case, but pointing out that there are many good arguments that exist which support the decision to take a gap year. Clearly some schools buy into them.

 

[bumpbumped]

What did you do during your gap year that led you to enlightenment? Please share.

I attended an Ivy for undergrad and am taking gap years. I was going to get a PhD and am going MD instead. However, many of my peers who were definitely going to apply to medical school took a gap year or two.

Most that I knew did research (but maybe that's just because I was doing research, so I knew about them), but it was because they really enjoyed it. A few of them got Masters, some domestically, some in the UK. They were doing traveling and a lot of other prestigious, fulfilling stuff. Talking to them, I never felt like they were grinding. They were on top of their crap. They'd already taken the MCATs, got good GPAs, had ECs, and publications. They were doing things related to medicine that they found fulfilling and truly enjoyed. Yes, it made their applications stronger. However, they would have gotten into medical school without taking time off, too.

Especially for top tier medical schools, the gap year isn't really for you to play catch up, especially if your intention during undergrad was to attend medical school. It might be a time for you to figure out your interests or investigate them further. Possibly a really incredibly opportunity came up, and you don't mind taking a year off from school to go take advantage of it.

 

[plumazul]

I'm asking for the list of people who have been accepted at Yale which you seem to have in your head, but won't post...

But it doesn't matter.

Here is a list of all current MSTP students. (a subset, but probably representative)