Dental Hygienist to Dentist??

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shamanrdh

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I'm currently a Hygienist near Chicago. It really kind of bothers me how bad a large percentage of the dentists I meet in the field are managing their patient bases....periodontally speaking. Lot's and lot's of greed, and very little caring for the common person. It's incredibly sad. I have an A.A. in dental hygiene, a 3.9 GPA, and scored in the top fraction of 1% nationally on the Board exam. I'm very good at what I do, but the greed of my employers more often than not ties my hands.

Firstly, I want to beg all of you future dentists out there to be a little less concerned with cars, houses, and trophy wives, and a little more concerned with the well being of your patients AND staff. I don't mean to be harsh...just calling it the way I see it. If the shoe fits... ya' dig? Anyways, if you come off as too much of an elitist snob, people aren't going to trust you. Just a thought.

Secondly...I'm getting really sick of wining about how poor most of my employers have been SO - what kind of a chance do you think a really good hygienist would have of getting into "d" school? Any advice? Special programs? Considerations?

I know I'm probably going to get alot of hatemail about this. Don't waste your time. Nothing you say could make me feel worse than watching peoples teeth fall out because dentists won't give me enough time to do my job.

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shamanrdh said:
I'm currently a Hygienist near Chicago. It really kind of bothers me how bad a large percentage of the dentists I meet in the field are managing their patient bases....periodontally speaking. Lot's and lot's of greed, and very little caring for the common person. It's incredibly sad. I have an A.A. in dental hygiene, a 3.9 GPA, and scored in the top fraction of 1% nationally on the Board exam. I'm very good at what I do, but the greed of my employers more often than not ties my hands.

Firstly, I want to beg all of you future dentists out there to be a little less concerned with cars, houses, and trophy wives, and a little more concerned with the well being of your patients AND staff. I don't mean to be harsh...just calling it the way I see it. If the shoe fits... ya' dig? Anyways, if you come off as too much of an elitist snob, people aren't going to trust you. Just a thought.

Secondly...I'm getting really sick of wining about how poor most of my employers have been SO - what kind of a chance do you think a really good hygienist would have of getting into "d" school? Any advice? Special programs? Considerations?

I know I'm probably going to get alot of hatemail about this. Don't waste your time. Nothing you say could make me feel worse than watching peoples teeth fall out because dentists won't give me enough time to do my job.

Of course you will have a better chance of getting into dental school than other people with out experience in the dental field. Your grades and test scores are really good and those are one of the big parts of your application that the amission committe looks at,

If i ever become a dentist one day, i probably will buy a nice car, nice house, nice wife. But i will also run a really good clinic and keep everyone happy and that will help me succeed in my business.
 
shamanrdh said:
I'm currently a Hygienist near Chicago. It really kind of bothers me how bad a large percentage of the dentists I meet in the field are managing their patient bases....periodontally speaking. Lot's and lot's of greed, and very little caring for the common person. It's incredibly sad. I have an A.A. in dental hygiene, a 3.9 GPA, and scored in the top fraction of 1% nationally on the Board exam. I'm very good at what I do, but the greed of my employers more often than not ties my hands.

Firstly, I want to beg all of you future dentists out there to be a little less concerned with cars, houses, and trophy wives, and a little more concerned with the well being of your patients AND staff. I don't mean to be harsh...just calling it the way I see it. If the shoe fits... ya' dig? Anyways, if you come off as too much of an elitist snob, people aren't going to trust you. Just a thought.

Secondly...I'm getting really sick of wining about how poor most of my employers have been SO - what kind of a chance do you think a really good hygienist would have of getting into "d" school? Any advice? Special programs? Considerations?

I know I'm probably going to get alot of hatemail about this. Don't waste your time. Nothing you say could make me feel worse than watching peoples teeth fall out because dentists won't give me enough time to do my job.

Your chances are as good as anybody else. Also, you might have an advantage. I know a relative that first became a hygienist and then went to “d” school; she owes more than $400k of school loans. Have you taken the DAT yet?

Your rough experiences with the dentists will give you an opportunity to not repeat the same mistakes as them. Perhaps, you can set up a donation-based dentistry, so money would not an issue. I wonder how you would pay back your undergrad + hygienist + "d" school loans? It's not always about the cars, houses and “wives”. Unfortunately, that's how the system is implemented.
 
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I think there may be some programs in CA that are 2 year dental hygenist to dentist...but I'm not sure about the details.
 
KatieJune said:
I think there may be some programs in CA that are 2 year dental hygenist to dentist...but I'm not sure about the details.

highly doubt it
 
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mynameistino said:
If i ever become a dentist one day, i probably will buy a nice car, nice house, nice wife. But i will also run a really good clinic and keep everyone happy and that will help me succeed in my business.

You should post back to let the single guys know where you find those hot wives for sale. ;)
 
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aphistis said:
You should post back to let the single guys know where you find those hot wives for sale. ;)


I'll take 2.... :thumbup: :D
 
aphistis said:
You should post back to let the single guys know where you find those hot wives for sale. ;)
Can I test drive them first? :laugh:
 
Oh. I see that y'all have yet to venture around the block. Let me clue you in as a sidebar. You are ALL going to have extremely hot wives. Because you're the most interesting, fun to be around guys? No. Sorry. More that you'll eventually have what middle aged nest-minded women want more than anything - financial security, shiny things, and status. Many of these women will be the very hygienists that you abuse by making them burn their wrists out on dull instruments doing 30 minute prophies. Eventually, these women will grow tired of working in such a poor environment. They're going to look for a way out - and there you'll be. Their actions will be very deliberate, for, evidently, unlike many of yourselves they've been around and around the block. I've seen it over, and over, and over again. Ask around about how many dentists are married to hygienists that used to work for them. Then ask how many were married prior.....over, and over, and over. Anyhoo, sorry to piss on your parades, but "..that's just the way the system works".

Oh...and to the poster that mentioned CA having a program where hygienists go to school for an additional 2 years for their DDS - you are absolutely correct. The problem - it is almost impossible for an out of state RDH to pass the very region-specific licensing test. They know that it's like Shangrala for RDH's there (weather, beaches, independent practice for RDH's, 2 additional yrs for DDS...earthquakes...) so they make it very hard to get in. That's what I hear anyway. Can you imagine how much money the college system would lose if that 2 additional years rule became nationwide? That would mean 4 years, instead of an unnecessary 8. Patients would definately be getting the best of both worlds - experts in prevention, as well as restoration. Quality of care would go up....cost of care down. Schools would get less money. DDS's may also make a little less. Therein lies the problem. Politics. To quote that same earlier poster again "...that's just the way the system works". Well - the system needs an overhaul. Just remember that future DDS's.
 
mynameistino said:
Of course you will have a better chance of getting into dental school than other people with out experience in the dental field. Your grades and test scores are really good and those are one of the big parts of your application that the amission committe looks at,

If i ever become a dentist one day, i probably will buy a nice car, nice house, nice wife. But i will also run a really good clinic and keep everyone happy and that will help me succeed in my business.

...I like the cut 'o your jib my friend. Keep that attitude and you're sure to go far. Much respect, no burnout, and plenty of money. It can be done. I've seen it - very successful, yet ethical dentists. Ones that will cooperate with other specialists in the healthcare team, before it's too late for the patients. Ones that don't thrive quite as much on greed and recognition, as they do on giving the best possible service to EVERY patient. Yeah...those are the good ones. Now...I'm going to give you my best estimate of the current state of the profession - .20...1/5...20%. That's it. That's how many are practicing like that. You sound like someone who just may belong to that very select group. Keep it up, and you'll have the very best hygienists begging to make life easy for you. Don't, and you'll be lucky to get one from the bottom 1/3 of the class, you're patients will never be healthy, and you'll have to get a new RDH every 6 months. Trust me. Kudos.
 
shamanrdh said:
Oh...and to the poster that mentioned CA having a program where hygienists go to school for an additional 2 years for their DDS - you are absolutely correct.

I'd like to see a URL link to this if it exists
 
shamanrdh said:
Oh. I see that y'all have yet to venture around the block. Let me clue you in as a sidebar. You are ALL going to have extremely hot wives. Because you're the most interesting, fun to be around guys? No. Sorry. More that you'll eventually have what middle aged nest-minded women want more than anything - financial security, shiny things, and status. Many of these women will be the very hygienists that you abuse by making them burn their wrists out on dull instruments doing 30 minute prophies. Eventually, these women will grow tired of working in such a poor environment. They're going to look for a way out - and there you'll be. Their actions will be very deliberate, for, evidently, unlike many of yourselves they've been around and around the block. I've seen it over, and over, and over again. Ask around about how many dentists are married to hygienists that used to work for them. Then ask how many were married prior.....over, and over, and over. Anyhoo, sorry to piss on your parades, but "..that's just the way the system works".

Oh...and to the poster that mentioned CA having a program where hygienists go to school for an additional 2 years for their DDS - you are absolutely correct. The problem - it is almost impossible for an out of state RDH to pass the very region-specific licensing test. They know that it's like Shangrala for RDH's there (weather, beaches, independent practice for RDH's, 2 additional yrs for DDS...earthquakes...) so they make it very hard to get in. That's what I hear anyway. Can you imagine how much money the college system would lose if that 2 additional years rule became nationwide? That would mean 4 years, instead of an unnecessary 8. Patients would definately be getting the best of both worlds - experts in prevention, as well as restoration. Quality of care would go up....cost of care down. Schools would get less money. DDS's may also make a little less. Therein lies the problem. Politics. To quote that same earlier poster again "...that's just the way the system works". Well - the system needs an overhaul. Just remember that future DDS's.
You seem like a very bright & capable woman, and your posts are very articulate...but you also seem to have a very pronounced chip on your shoulder. Good luck going dental, and I hope things pick up for you.
 
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shamanrdh said:
I'm currently a Hygienist near Chicago. It really kind of bothers me how bad a large percentage of the dentists I meet in the field are managing their patient bases....periodontally speaking. Lot's and lot's of greed, and very little caring for the common person. It's incredibly sad. I have an A.A. in dental hygiene, a 3.9 GPA, and scored in the top fraction of 1% nationally on the Board exam. I'm very good at what I do, but the greed of my employers more often than not ties my hands.

Firstly, I want to beg all of you future dentists out there to be a little less concerned with cars, houses, and trophy wives, and a little more concerned with the well being of your patients AND staff. I don't mean to be harsh...just calling it the way I see it. If the shoe fits... ya' dig? Anyways, if you come off as too much of an elitist snob, people aren't going to trust you. Just a thought.

Secondly...I'm getting really sick of wining about how poor most of my employers have been SO - what kind of a chance do you think a really good hygienist would have of getting into "d" school? Any advice? Special programs? Considerations?

I know I'm probably going to get alot of hatemail about this. Don't waste your time. Nothing you say could make me feel worse than watching peoples teeth fall out because dentists won't give me enough time to do my job.

Don't let a couple bad apples ruin the whole barrel. I know plenty of dentists that are very down to earth (and have homely wives :laugh: ). You're going to find greedy people in almost any profession. It does sound like you do have a bit a chip on your shoulder, but knowing several hygienists well (ok, I did date one of them), I know they often feel unappreciated and unheard in their offices. You are not alone, nor is this unusual in any employer/employee relationship. You've got good grades, and seem very bright (I know hygiene training and education is challenging), so with your good experience I'd say go for it. Just check the attitude at the door. If you think the dentists are bad, you should try the people who teach them!
 
To the OP: your posts are well-written, but I've found them quite offensive. Lots of painting with broad brushes. Ironically (or not), the attitude you have is the exact same attitude the hygienists in my class have. For the most part they are despised by the entire class due to their "I know more than you" attitude.

I'd advise you to lose that prior to dental school. Hygiene will only take you so far, and then you'll be on a level playing field with all the other students.

Good luck with your pursuits. You shouldn't have a problem getting admitted, although you'll have to do all four years (no shortcuts).
 
The Godfather said:
... I know plenty of dentists that are very down to earth (and have homely wives :laugh: ).
I'd like to find out how homely can they get! :D

The Godfather said:
... Don't let a couple bad apples ruin the whole barrel....You're going to find greedy people in almost any profession.
true. Case in point, I did a screening exam last week. The lady has SEVEN teeth left in Mandibular (Max. complete denture) 3 of the incisors are at least cl I+ mobility, deep pockets, and soon to be "gone with the wind"!. Moderate periodontitis. Guess what her private practice dentist recommended! CROWN for all of those seven teeth! close to $6K. The proper tx would have been S/RP possible referal for periodontal surgery. I've seen many cases from private practices that were either gross incompetent or improper tx that have to be retreated.
ItsGavinC said:
To the OP: your posts are well-written, but I've found them quite offensive. Lots of painting with broad brushes.
I agree! She did hurt my feelings. I am wounded :(
ItsGavinC said:
Ironically (or not), the attitude you have is the exact same attitude the hygienists in my class have. For the most part they are despised by the entire class due to their "I know more than you" attitude.
Are you kidding me? "I know more than you" attitude from hygienists in a Dental class? :rolleyes:
Although it's not easy to get in a dental hygiene program, most of the hygienists have not earned an undergrad degree before enrollment but most of the dental students have a degree, some even with M.S.
Ok, so they know (or think that they know) all about S/RP but come on, they can train monkeys to do it :D Well, actually one of my Oral surgery professors said that he could train monkeys to do OMFS :D

Fact number one about dental students: there are many kids who do not understand anything about modesty or humility +pity+
 
shamanrdh said:
... I'm very good at what I do, but the greed of my employers more often than not ties my hands...
I doubt that you're talking about fore play?! :D
shamanrdh said:
... More that you'll eventually have what middle aged nest-minded women want more than anything - financial security, shiny things, and status. Many of these women will be the very hygienists that you abuse by making them burn their wrists out on dull instruments doing 30 minute prophies. Eventually, these women will grow tired of working in such a poor environment. They're going to look for a way out - and there you'll be. Their actions will be very deliberate, for, evidently, unlike many of yourselves they've been around and around the block.
Well, well, well, it sounds like you had been around the block and some more yourself! ummmh :D

shamanrdh said:
... Firstly, I want to beg all of you future dentists out there to be a little less concerned with cars, houses, and trophy wives, and a little more concerned with the well being of your patients AND staff. I don't mean to be harsh...just calling it the way I see it. If the shoe fits... ya' dig? Anyways, if you come off as too much of an elitist snob, people aren't going to trust you. Just a thought.

Secondly...I'm getting really sick of wining about how poor most of my employers have been
It sounds like a BROKEN HEART to me than an ethical issue with dentists! Are you sure that you did not date your employer(s)? :D
While I intend to have nice car(s), nice house(s) and a lovely wife (I'm a family man and MONOgamy :) ) I will not do it at the expense of my staff or the well-being of the patients! If you saw me parking a nice car in a nice house, yup, Daddy's earned LEGIT baby! :D

shamanrdh said:
...I know I'm probably going to get alot of hatemail about this. Don't waste your time. Nothing you say could make me feel worse than watching peoples teeth fall out because dentists won't give me enough time to do my job.
Actually, I think that deep down inside, you ARE a very good person, more than you'll ever know! you're just misunderstood, sometimes! People just don't realize that you meant well, sometimes!
Come work WITH me, I'll give you all the time of the world! Your wish is my command! I'd even wine and dine you, well, only if you're still single and cute :D

BTW, I think that you're smart enough not to bring up of what you've thought about your previous employers during your interview! and you've chosen dentists wisely for LORs!

You have a good chance considering your GPA and personal experience. (you probably knew that already!) What's your DAT? (if you don't mind me asking!)

Good luck!
 
hygienist to dentist. The only way is d school. On top of that nearly all of your classes you took for hygiene school will not transfer to college-level pre-reqs for d school. You have a long ways to go (~6 yr) to become a dentist and a lot to learn but I wish you the best of luck.
 
Actually, there are quite a few hygienists-turned-dentists out there. There are 3 in my class. But if you come across in your interviews the way you are coming across on this forum I promise you will never be one of them.

Everyone in my class thought the hygienists would be at a huge advantage when we first started, but the only real advantages they had were:

They knew how to take radiographs -- we were caught up with them after a two hour lecture and a 2 hour pre-clinic session.

They knew the names, numbers and anatomy of the teeth -- we were all way beyond that after a 2 credit dental anatomy class the first semester. (Keep in mind that is 2 credits out of 25)

They knew the names of the perio instruments and how to hold them -- we were caught up after 2 hours of lecture and a 2 hour lab. (Although I will admit that they are still better at using them than most of us :) )

Oh, and probably the biggest advantage of all -- they get special attention because they are cute. :D
 
razalasodnamra said:
I thik if a hygooniest wants to be a dnetist, they should be allowed.

That's my .20 cents.

Well....thanks Raz - me too. A few things:

1. To you dental students that are acting like all hygienists know is how to take radiographs, how to use scaling instruments, and the numbers of the teeth - hahahahahahahah!!!! lol!!! That's absolutely ridiculous. What do you think was on the 8 hour exam I had to take for licensure(...that, incidentally I scored over 99% on)??? Try Tx planning, diagnosis of all types (differential, radiographic, clinical, therapeutic, etc.) (...yes DIAGNOSIS...), pharmaceuticals, oral path, periodontics, public health, amongst a host of other subjects including anat., phys., general science, etc., etc. I've looked at the course outline for DDS programs, and the classes are VERY similar....my guess is the average DDS has no idea how much an RDH know (especially one that paid attention and learned "her" stuff). If the shoe fits. Thanks to all who have recognized that Hygienists DO know alot, and the education is more rigorous than most other programs at 4 year institutions.

2. To the guy that was overtly flirting with me "...come work with me and I'll wine and dine you..." - firstly, you're begging to be sued for sexual harrassment. Be careful. Secondly, not only am I NOT FEMALE, but I'm also an ex-Marine. Still wanna' wine and dine me? Too bad - I'm married
:laugh:

3. I am seriously thinking about going back to D school. I haven't taken the DAT yet. I tested out of the math requirement to get into Hygiene school. So, I've got a little catching up to do. I've got to get the chem and O chem out of the way. I've already taken micro, phys., anatomy, english, etc. I've gotten A's in all (I had a 4.0 going into Hyg. school). Do you all think that if I caught up my math over the next year or so that my current A.A.S. degree, coupled with the completed math classes, and a good DAT score would get me in? I'd be applying for the NHSC grants to do the "northern exposure" type thing for sure. I'd probably stay in some sort of situation like that long term, as it means more to me to help people than to have millions.

4. I looked for a link to the "hygienist going back to school for 2 years in CA to recieve a DDS.." thing. Couldn't find it. Must be an urban legend. But, that wasn't the first time I had heard that. Sorry for not doing due diligence beforehand...

5. Are there schools that anyone is aware of that are more likely to take my RDH experience, good GPA, and completed community college requirements into consideration in when contemplating me as a candidate? SIU's DMD program sounds a little more lax than UIC's. Some posters on the "non-trad" threads seem to think that some dental schools don't mind - some have apparently gotten in with cc requirements. Texas kind of seems that way.

I think it's horrible that an RDH that wants to continue and take what to me is the next likely step (...the one that my patients are always asking me about...) and become a DDS has to take 11 years of school versus 8. And that's just my .20 cents Raz.
 
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shamanrdh said:
Well....thanks Raz - me too. A few things:

1. To you dental students that are acting like all hygienists know is how to take radiographs, how to use scaling instruments, and the numbers of the teeth - hahahahahahahah!!!! lol!!! That's absolutely ridiculous. What do you think was on the 8 hour exam I had to take for licensure(...that, incidentally I scored over 99% on)??? Try Tx planning, diagnosis of all types (differential, radiographic, clinical, therapeutic, etc.) (...yes DIAGNOSIS...), pharmaceuticals, oral path, periodontics, public health, amongst a host of other subjects including anat., phys., general science, etc., etc. I've looked at the course outline for DDS programs, and the classes are VERY similar....my guess is the average DDS has no idea how much an RDH know (especially one that paid attention and learned "her" stuff). If the shoe fits. Thanks to all who have recognized that Hygienists DO know alot, and the education is more rigorous than most other programs at 4 year institutions.

2. To the guy that was overtly flirting with me "...come work with me and I'll wine and dine you..." - firstly, you're begging to be sued for sexual harrassment. Be careful. Secondly, not only am I NOT FEMALE, but I'm also an ex-Marine. Still wanna' wine and dine me? Too bad - I'm married
:laugh:

3. I am seriously thinking about going back to D school. I haven't taken the DAT yet. I tested out of the math requirement to get into Hygiene school. So, I've got a little catching up to do. I've got to get the chem and O chem out of the way. I've already taken micro, phys., anatomy, english, etc. I've gotten A's in all (I had a 4.0 going into Hyg. school). Do you all think that if I caught up my math over the next year or so that my current A.A.S. degree, coupled with the completed math classes, and a good DAT score would get me in? I'd be applying for the NHSC grants to do the "northern exposure" type thing for sure. I'd probably stay in some sort of situation like that long term, as it means more to me to help people than to have millions.

4. I looked for a link to the "hygienist going back to school for 2 years in CA to recieve a DDS.." thing. Couldn't find it. Must be an urban legend. But, that wasn't the first time I had heard that. Sorry for not doing due diligence beforehand...

5. Are there schools that anyone is aware of that are more likely to take my RDH experience, good GPA, and completed community college requirements into consideration in when contemplating me as a candidate? SIU's DMD program sounds a little more lax than UIC's. Some posters on the "non-trad" threads seem to think that some dental schools don't mind - some have apparently gotten in with cc requirements. Texas kind of seems that way.

I think it's horrible that an RDH that wants to continue and take what to me is the next likely step (...the one that my patients are always asking me about...) and become a DDS has to take 11 years of school versus 8. And that's just my .20 cents Raz.

I don't see 11 years of school as a given in order for you to get your DDS. There are schools who will take students who do not possess a bachelors degree but who have taken all the prereqs, are able to submit high GPA/DAT scores, can demonstrate a high level of maturity, and can validate significant experience in the field of dentistry. You've got two of the above under your belt and are not far from gaining the other two. One word of advice....don't come across as someone who is bent on showing up your potential classmates in your personal statment and interviews...such an attitude could be lethal.
 
groundhog said:
I don't see 11 years of school as a given in order for you to get your DDS. There are schools who will take students who do not possess a bachelors degree but who have taken all the prereqs, are able to submit high GPA/DAT scores, can demonstrate a high level of maturity, and can validate significant experience in the field of dentistry. You've got two of the above under your belt and are not far from gaining the other two. One word of advice....don't come across as someone who is bent of showing up your potential fellow classmates in your personal statement and interviews......such an attitude could be lethal.

Thanks. Do you think it's an absolute necessity that I take the pre-reqs at a 4 year school? Or will CC do? Do you know anyone who has done this type of thing before?
 
shamanrdh said:
To you dental students that are acting like all hygienists know is how to take radiographs, how to use scaling instruments, and the numbers of the teeth - hahahahahahahah!!!! lol!!! That's absolutely ridiculous. What do you think was on the 8 hour exam I had to take for licensure(...that, incidentally I scored over 99% on)???


If you don't mind, please quote the poster who said these things...because when I read through the posts I did not see anyone who can be attributed with those statements. I feel like a lot of hygienists have a complex with dentists in the same way dentists do with MDs. It's as if they assume we as dentists must think that about them, much in the way you took pretty much the only post that did not bow down to your uncanny honesty and then pidgeon-holed it as a post towards how dental hygienists are limited in scope.

As far as your OP, sure you can go to dental school. You will have more than a leg up on your classmates due to your experience and knowledge in dentistry. I encourage you to seek out and explore the possibility of expanding your horizons. Maybe then you can see from the dentists' point of view that maybe dentistry isn't exactly how you see it from your chair's position.

As Gavin pointed out, your thoughts have some merit but the condescending tone in them prevent me from taking them as seriously. Much to the same effect that you mentioning not once, but twice, that you scored the 99th % on your board exam. That's great and all, but doesn't make you a more knowledgeable or more credible source. In the same way how you stereotype dentists as "having trohpy wifes and overtly concerned with driving mercedes and neglecting patients". How many dentists have you worked for? More than 50% in this country for you to stereotype? What locale are you in...because I guarantee you those dentists are the norm maybe in a place like california (beverly hills if you will), but in this state of North Carolina they are the minority. And trust me, about half my class is married and I've seen their wives...not trophy wives. Oh yeah, I forgot...by your post you hint towards the fact that they will all surely leave their wives for their underaged hygieniests.

Of course, you will probably take the tone of my post as an indication of my perception of dental assistants, dental hygienists, my staff and probably my family as well :rolleyes: If you want to bring up educated comments then I encourage you to do so in an adult manner. If you are going to stereotype dentists because of your personal experiences in dentistry, take it somewhere else.
 
DcS said:
If you don't mind, please quote the poster who said these things...because when I read through the posts I did not see anyone who can be attributed with those statements. I feel like a lot of hygienists have a complex with dentists in the same way dentists do with MDs. It's as if they assume we as dentists must think that about them, much in the way you took pretty much the only post that did not bow down to your uncanny honesty and then pidgeon-holed it as a post towards how dental hygienists are limited in scope.

As far as your OP, sure you can go to dental school. You will have more than a leg up on your classmates due to your experience and knowledge in dentistry. I encourage you to seek out and explore the possibility of expanding your horizons. Maybe then you can see from the dentists' point of view that maybe dentistry isn't exactly how you see it from your chair's position.

As Gavin pointed out, your thoughts have some merit but the condescending tone in them prevent me from taking them as seriously. Much to the same effect that you mentioning not once, but twice, that you scored the 99th % on your board exam. That's great and all, but doesn't make you a more knowledgeable or more credible source. In the same way how you stereotype dentists as "having trohpy wifes and overtly concerned with driving mercedes and neglecting patients". How many dentists have you worked for? More than 50% in this country for you to stereotype? What locale are you in...because I guarantee you those dentists are the norm maybe in a place like california (beverly hills if you will), but in this state of North Carolina they are the minority. And trust me, about half my class is married and I've seen their wives...not trophy wives. Oh yeah, I forgot...by your post you hint towards the fact that they will all surely leave their wives for their underaged hygieniests.

Of course, you will probably take the tone of my post as an indication of my perception of dental assistants, dental hygienists, my staff and probably my family as well :rolleyes: If you want to bring up educated comments then I encourage you to do so in an adult manner. If you are going to stereotype dentists because of your personal experiences in dentistry, take it somewhere else.
Amen. :thumbup:
 
If you go to dental school to prove something to others, you will run into problems.
 
shamanrdh said:
Well....thanks Raz - me too. A few things:

1. To you dental students that are acting like all hygienists know is how to take radiographs, how to use scaling instruments, and the numbers of the teeth - hahahahahahahah!!!! lol!!! That's absolutely ridiculous. What do you think was on the 8 hour exam I had to take for licensure(...that, incidentally I scored over 99% on)??? Try Tx planning, diagnosis of all types (differential, radiographic, clinical, therapeutic, etc.) (...yes DIAGNOSIS...), pharmaceuticals, oral path, periodontics, public health, amongst a host of other subjects including anat., phys., general science, etc., etc. I've looked at the course outline for DDS programs, and the classes are VERY similar....my guess is the average DDS has no idea how much an RDH know (especially one that paid attention and learned "her" stuff). If the shoe fits. Thanks to all who have recognized that Hygienists DO know alot, and the education is more rigorous than most other programs at 4 year institutions.

2. To the guy that was overtly flirting with me "...come work with me and I'll wine and dine you..." - firstly, you're begging to be sued for sexual harrassment. Be careful. Secondly, not only am I NOT FEMALE, but I'm also an ex-Marine. Still wanna' wine and dine me? Too bad - I'm married
:laugh:

3. I am seriously thinking about going back to D school. I haven't taken the DAT yet. I tested out of the math requirement to get into Hygiene school. So, I've got a little catching up to do. I've got to get the chem and O chem out of the way. I've already taken micro, phys., anatomy, english, etc. I've gotten A's in all (I had a 4.0 going into Hyg. school). Do you all think that if I caught up my math over the next year or so that my current A.A.S. degree, coupled with the completed math classes, and a good DAT score would get me in? I'd be applying for the NHSC grants to do the "northern exposure" type thing for sure. I'd probably stay in some sort of situation like that long term, as it means more to me to help people than to have millions.

4. I looked for a link to the "hygienist going back to school for 2 years in CA to recieve a DDS.." thing. Couldn't find it. Must be an urban legend. But, that wasn't the first time I had heard that. Sorry for not doing due diligence beforehand...

5. Are there schools that anyone is aware of that are more likely to take my RDH experience, good GPA, and completed community college requirements into consideration in when contemplating me as a candidate? SIU's DMD program sounds a little more lax than UIC's. Some posters on the "non-trad" threads seem to think that some dental schools don't mind - some have apparently gotten in with cc requirements. Texas kind of seems that way.

I think it's horrible that an RDH that wants to continue and take what to me is the next likely step (...the one that my patients are always asking me about...) and become a DDS has to take 11 years of school versus 8. And that's just my .20 cents Raz.
With this kind of winning attitude, you're a lock for dental school. Plus, once you do get there, you're going to be in for an awakening.

You mentioned you're a former Marine. I'm a musician in the National Guard. Would you estimate my combat training is as thorough as yours? Of course not, and therein lies the lesson that the depth of training received is as important as the subject area it covers.

Your contention that dentists don't recognize how much their hygienists know may or may not be accurate, but based on your posts here I can promise you have no idea how much you *don't*. There's a reason dentistry is a doctorate and hygiene is an associate's or bachelor's. Much like DcS mentioned above, I'm sure you'll end up condensing this post to "hygienists suck", and I want to pre-empt you before you get the opportunity. Good luck getting to and through dental school, but I'd strongly, strongly recommend losing the chip on your shoulder beforehand.
 
shamanrdh said:
Thanks. Do you think it's an absolute necessity that I take the pre-reqs at a 4 year school? Or will CC do? Do you know anyone who has done this type of thing before?

I know a person who had a foreign medical degree. He took the English prereqs at a CC. He got a 4.0 in a tough as nails non matriculated summer quarter course at a flagship state university that covered an entire 3 quarter OC series. He scored high on the DAT (25 AA). He got accepted to a hightly competitive state university dental school and is doing great.
 
I think it's very admirable that you want to continue your education. You sound very determined and smart enough to do it. You do seem to be carrying a grudge towards dental students and dentists. It would be in your interest to throw that out the window. One of my good friends and classmates happens to have been a hygienist, I can tell you that's where it ends. She is an excellent student. I will confidently say that it's not because she's already had these phys, micro, path classes in hygiene school (because they are not the same), and it's not that she already knew how to diagnose this or that and treatment plan correctly before entering dental school (because she didn't). It's because she's an awesome student and studies hard just like the rest of us. Most importantly she didn't carry any excess baggage so to speak with her to dental school. She like all the rest of us started at square one 1st yr. I'm sure you will take a world of knowledge in communicating with patients (one of the hardest things to learn) and certainly treating some perio patients. But be prepared to learn a lot more. I understand how you feel that the extra yrs of education is horrible, but dental school cannot be made into an extension of hygiene school. I have a great respect for hygiene students and hygienists. I look forward to working with them as colleagues in the future.

To address your original question, you seem to have determination and are smart enough to easily get into dental school. Most Dental schools will want a Bachelor's degree along with the required sci classes. Some students have been admitted without completing their BA/BS, but it's rare, and these students are often exceptional and very close to finishing their BA/BS. If you're asking whether a hygiene degree plus the requirements will be enough, I wouldn't count on it. You asked about Texas schools. Texas schools, like most schools, will accept cc requirements, but if all your requirements are from a cc that may raise a flag on your application and make you less competitive. Applying to DS has become more competitive in the last few yrs. There are many more applicants with BA/BS degrees than there are spots. Schools want high GPAs in a BA/BS program and high DATs. After that they look at extracurriculars and other experience which your hygiene experience falls into. Some of the less competitive schools will be more forgiving, but don't expect miracles. You have a few yrs to go, but you certainly can do it. Good luck.
 
Listen...sorry to come off the way that I have. I've had some really bad experiences in dentistry thus far. The politics surrounding the issues are enough to seriously make me sick with disgust.

I never meant to come off like I know more than DDS's. That's not true, and I know it. God knows, I'd like to be a DDS.

To the poster that inquired where I got that people on this board didn't have any respect for the education of hygienists...

"Everyone in my class thought the hygienists would be at a huge advantage when we first started, but the only real advantages they had were:

They knew how to take radiographs -- we were caught up with them after a two hour lecture and a 2 hour pre-clinic session.

They knew the names, numbers and anatomy of the teeth -- we were all way beyond that after a 2 credit dental anatomy class the first semester. (Keep in mind that is 2 credits out of 25)

They knew the names of the perio instruments and how to hold them -- we were caught up after 2 hours of lecture and a 2 hour lab. (Although I will admit that they are still better at using them than most of us )

Oh, and probably the biggest advantage of all -- they get special attention because they are cute. "

Kinda' inflammed me 'cuz it downed my entire educational process which was VERY greuling.


*
 
So have you made up your mind whether or not you would like to enter dental profession? Dental hygienists are in demand right now. They are the "practice builders"... I know some dentists may abuse this fact and work you like bees to bring in the recall patients and those 'DDS exam fees'... if you are working in an environment where the dentist treats with you no respect, perhaps it's time to move on?

I know a periodontist at my school was a former dental hygienist. She's down to earth and not so hard to approach.

One factor to consider before going further with your hygiene would be your age (and I guess it comes down to your family). Are you able to go back to 4 years of dental school (another grueling 4 years!) and manage your family (If you have a hubby or kids) as well? What would they think?

All I can say is that if you are not yet 35 and still single (and not so much in debt), you owe it to yourself to become what you want to be. "Be all that you can be." Good luck.
 
shamanrdh said:
Kinda' inflammed me 'cuz it downed my entire educational process which was VERY greuling.

I can understand that, and those comments don't mean you experience wasn't difficult, it simply means that the scope of your education was minimal when compared to a dental education.
 
All I can say is that if you are not yet 35 and still single (and not so much in debt), you owe it to yourself to become what you want to be. "Be all that you can be." Good luck.[/QUOTE]

I have moved on - again, and again....even turned in one former employer the the Department of Public Regulation for constantly failing to diagnose, treat, and document perio. It's really a problem out there, and the public has no clue.

I know that many of the posters on this site have taken offense to some of my comments regarding the current state of dentistry. These posters aren't in the field yet so I take it with a grain...ya' know? The fact is, alot of these kids are going to get out and try to get a hold on their financial lives by working as associates. I've worked with many young dentists that were at that point, and they've told me not to bother with dental school. They tell me it's very risky being an associate, because the practice owners pull the same greed garbage with them as they do with RDH's. For example, I'm told you'll never be able to do anything fast enough for them. The problem young DDS's face is the liability that working in those types of factories brings. Many DDS's tell me it's not worth it, and they end up...get this...temping as hygienists.

I'm 31, and don't have a hubby - a wife rather. She's really upset about the politics of dentistry as well.

It wouldn't take me 4 more years. More like 6-8 more.
 
edit....just don't feel like getting into a pissing match...but turning in to the dept of reg? Wow, get a grip.


You seem to be an incredibly jaded person. I hope you can free yourself from this one day, good luck.
 
If you are frustrated with the entire field of dentistry and dislike its "politics" then change career fields totally. Your attitude and generalizations are going to be a major handicap and could end up being your downfall. Is lack of perio dx and tx a problem in dentistry? You bet. That is strongly stressed in dental school. It is one of the biggest reasons to be sued in dentistry these days. (There are other problems in dentistry also that no doubt you don't understand. Not yet at least.) What can YOU do about it? Become the very best dentist you can be and associate yourself with other dentists and specialists that follow the same philosophy of excellence. What can you do right now? Lose the attitude. Seriously. It's great that you have high morals and standards. I think most of us here do. But you are turning that into aggression towards dentistry. Allow me to give you a valuable piece of advice. If you present a negative attitude or articulate the negative experiences you've had in your interview, you will not get in, period. If you enter dental school with these negative perceptions towards dentistry, you will endure 4 yrs of hell (much more than it already is) and there is a good chance you won't finish. I hope you don't dismiss these words. I'm only spending the time writing them (rather than study or something) to help you.
 
To the OP, now that you're starting to flesh your story out a little more, it sounds like you have potentially an extremely powerful background to do a lot of good within the profession of dentistry, whether it be as a clinician, an advocate, or both. Just remember to use your powers for good. ;)
 
To the OP:

Sorry..this may be a little late as I've been busy this weekend....but I think that I speak for most of us when I say you are chapping serious ass and now you should kiss it :barf: :p
 
shamanrdh said:
Well....thanks Raz - me too. A few things:

1. To you dental students that are acting like all hygienists know is how to take radiographs, how to use scaling instruments, and the numbers of the teeth - hahahahahahahah!!!! lol!!! That's absolutely ridiculous. What do you think was on the 8 hour exam I had to take for licensure(...that, incidentally I scored over 99% on)??? Try Tx planning, diagnosis of all types (differential, radiographic, clinical, therapeutic, etc.) (...yes DIAGNOSIS...), pharmaceuticals, oral path, periodontics, public health, amongst a host of other subjects including anat., phys., general science, etc., etc. I've looked at the course outline for DDS programs, and the classes are VERY similar....my guess is the average DDS has no idea how much an RDH know (especially one that paid attention and learned "her" stuff). If the shoe fits. Thanks to all who have recognized that Hygienists DO know alot, and the education is more rigorous than most other programs at 4 year institutions.

2. To the guy that was overtly flirting with me "...come work with me and I'll wine and dine you..." - firstly, you're begging to be sued for sexual harrassment. Be careful. Secondly, not only am I NOT FEMALE, but I'm also an ex-Marine. Still wanna' wine and dine me? Too bad - I'm married
:laugh:

3. I am seriously thinking about going back to D school. I haven't taken the DAT yet. I tested out of the math requirement to get into Hygiene school. So, I've got a little catching up to do. I've got to get the chem and O chem out of the way. I've already taken micro, phys., anatomy, english, etc. I've gotten A's in all (I had a 4.0 going into Hyg. school). Do you all think that if I caught up my math over the next year or so that my current A.A.S. degree, coupled with the completed math classes, and a good DAT score would get me in? I'd be applying for the NHSC grants to do the "northern exposure" type thing for sure. I'd probably stay in some sort of situation like that long term, as it means more to me to help people than to have millions.

4. I looked for a link to the "hygienist going back to school for 2 years in CA to recieve a DDS.." thing. Couldn't find it. Must be an urban legend. But, that wasn't the first time I had heard that. Sorry for not doing due diligence beforehand...

5. Are there schools that anyone is aware of that are more likely to take my RDH experience, good GPA, and completed community college requirements into consideration in when contemplating me as a candidate? SIU's DMD program sounds a little more lax than UIC's. Some posters on the "non-trad" threads seem to think that some dental schools don't mind - some have apparently gotten in with cc requirements. Texas kind of seems that way.

I think it's horrible that an RDH that wants to continue and take what to me is the next likely step (...the one that my patients are always asking me about...) and become a DDS has to take 11 years of school versus 8. And that's just my .20 cents Raz.

A male hygienist? I had heard rumors they existed, but never actually had any hard facts. You gotta love that male/female ratio in your classes. :laugh:
 
shamanrdh said:
2. To the guy that was overtly flirting with me "...come work with me and I'll wine and dine you..." - firstly, you're begging to be sued for sexual harrassment. Be careful. Secondly, not only am I NOT FEMALE, but I'm also an ex-Marine. Still wanna' wine and dine me? Too bad - I'm married
:laugh:
Easy there Grasshopper! It was just a joke! read the rest of my previous post! I thought that you WERE a female :eek: Sorry buddy but I don't swing that way. I should have known better base on your user ID: SHE A MAN RDH :eek: Wow, so you're an ex-marine-man-hygienist! :eek: not that there's anything wrong with it!
shamanrdh said:
I have moved on - again, and again....even turned in one former employer the the Department of Public Regulation for constantly failing to diagnose, treat, and document perio. It's really a problem out there, and the public has no clue.
I commend you for standing up to your employer in the patients' well-being but to say" it's really a problem out there, and the public has no clue" Are you sure that you're not over reacting?
Your point about the bad apples in dentistry is well taken but let's not blow things out of proportion! The rotten apple problem exists in EVERY profession. Maybe you should write to the ADA or the AAP (American Academy of Periodontology) or American Dental HYGIENIST Association instead of whinning about the problem here. It won't change anything.
Maybe I should have gone to a hygiene program instead of doctorate program so that I can properly diagnose, treat and document perio. I knew it! All those 4yrs of learning how to diagnose, treat and document perio was just a waste! They should have let a hygienist teach us instead of periodontics! Give me a break, PLEASE :rolleyes:
shamanrdh said:
I know that many of the posters on this site have taken offense to some of my comments regarding the current state of dentistry.
Wow, I had no clue about the current state of dentistry! Please tell me more about it! Is it that bad?!

shamanrdh said:
These posters aren't in the field yet so I take it with a grain...ya' know?
You forgot to account for the fact that it's not uncommon that dental students have immediate family members in dentistry profession. Sure they're not in "the field" yet but they sure understand about "the field" Whether they have family members in dentistry profession or not, they're not as dumb as they look :laugh:
shamanrdh said:
The fact is, alot of these kids are going to get out and try to get a hold on their financial lives by working as associates. I've worked with many young dentists that were at that point, and they've told me not to bother with dental school. They tell me it's very risky being an associate, because the practice owners pull the same greed garbage with them as they do with RDH's. For example, I'm told you'll never be able to do anything fast enough for them. The problem young DDS's face is the liability that working in those types of factories brings. Many DDS's tell me it's not worth it, and they end up...get this...temping as hygienists.
I guess that I only have 2 choices as a dentist:
1. "try to get a hold on their financial lives by working as associates"
2. "temping as hygienists" and do what you're doing right now!

So the ADA had it all wrong!

Man, the future of dentistry really sucks!!! Who said anything about the "golden age" of dentistry?! Dental students are clueless about their future! 4 friggin' yrs of sweat, @ss kissing, tears, sleep deprivation (not in any particular order!) and all they have to look forward to was either an associate or temping as a hygienist! Life sure sucks, ain't it :rolleyes:

You know, maybe those "YOUNG DENTISTS" were right! You should "not to be bother with dental school" because "it's not worth it" and you'll "end up...get this...temping as hygienists" and do exactly what you're doing right now! I think that you're alreay ahead of the game in the dentistry profession. I would quit while you're ahead!

Wow, thank you very much from the bottom of my heart for enlightening and educating my ignorant of the important of hygienists and the bleak out-look of dentistry! +pity+

shamanrdh said:
I've had some really bad experiences in dentistry thus far. The politics surrounding the issues are enough to seriously make me sick with disgust.
ummh, ever thought about doing something else with your life? Dentistry sure is not a career for you. Wait a minute, how 'bout Nursing?! Yes? :clap: So you can tell us how "sick with disgust" you are about how the MDs treating their patients. You can even show them how to do their jobs too because you're smarter and know more than them! You know that I'm just trying to help! Don't kill the messenger :barf:
 
aphistis said:
To the OP, now that you're starting to flesh your story out a little more, it sounds like you have potentially an extremely powerful background to do a lot of good within the profession of dentistry, whether it be as a clinician, an advocate, or both. Just remember to use your powers for good. ;)
Damn, that's a whole lot of powers in a male hygienist! Was that a joke? :confused:
Oh well, I guess that I have to settle on being just a dentist. It's too late for me to switch over to the hygiene program because I'm.....................over-qualify :eek:
aphistis said:
You seem like a very bright & capable woman, and your posts are very articulate...but you also seem to have a very pronounced chip on your shoulder. Good luck going dental, and I hope things pick up for you.
Dude, SHE is actually a HE! You and I were both mistaken. Lucky for me, nothing happened! :D
Oh, that "very pronounced chip" was implanted on his shoulder. Good luck getting it off! You'd have to do brain surgery! :eek:
 
lnn2 said:
Damn, that's a whole lot of powers in a male hygienist! Was that a joke? :confused:
Oh well, I guess that I have to settle on being just a dentist. It's too late for me to switch over to the hygiene program because I'm.....................over-qualify :eek:

Dude, SHE is actually a HE! You and I were both mistaken. Lucky for me, nothing happened! :D
Oh, that "very pronounced chip" was implanted on his shoulder. Good luck getting it off! You'd have to do brain surgery! :eek:

hahahaha!! Now you're doing it!! You're gonna' make a great dentist someday...fit right in. People are gonna' love ya'. Good for you ;) I guess I did take your advice. Spent the whole weekend looking for ways out of my profession. There are few. Gotta' find something - the thought of spending my days working for guys with your quality of character (...self-centered, money-hungry, smug know-it-all, etc., etc, etc,...) is like a nightmare.

Thanks for all of your help everyone. This has been interesting.

Oh...and about whether or not I should or shouldn't have turned someone in for the gross mismanagement (...and yes smug one...I do know what that is...ask a hygiene instructor at your school...) of patients periodontally - 11mm pockets generallized, class 3 mobility, no referals, no options given, nothing. You want me to feel sorry for that piece of **** that I worked for - NEVER. He isn't fit to lick the dirt of my shoes. I'm sure you think it's real funny too when GP's recommend to put crowns on teeth that are hopeless. What's real funny is when the person isn't exactly a trust-funder in terms of financial resources. I'm done. Thanks for the stimulating convo. :D
 
shamanrdh said:
hahahaha!! Now you're doing it!! You're gonna' make a great dentist someday...fit right in. People are gonna' love ya'. Good for you ;) I guess I did take your advice. Spent the whole weekend looking for ways out of my profession. There are few. Gotta' find something - the thought of spending my days working for guys with your quality of character (...self-centered, money-hungry, smug know-it-all, etc., etc, etc,...) is like a nightmare.

Thanks for all of your help everyone. This has been interesting.

Oh...and about whether or not I should or shouldn't have turned someone in for the gross mismanagement (...and yes smug one...I do know what that is...ask a hygiene instructor at your school...) of patients periodontally - 11mm pockets generallized, class 3 mobility, no referals, no options given, nothing. You want me to feel sorry for that piece of **** that I worked for - NEVER. He isn't fit to lick the dirt of my shoes. I'm sure you think it's real funny too when GP's recommend to put crowns on teeth that are hopeless. What's real funny is when the person isn't exactly a trust-funder in terms of financial resources. I'm done. Thanks for the stimulating convo. :D




I just wanted to thank you.....today i cut off my sack, dropped out of dental school, joined the marines and the hygiene program.

...you have really opened my eyes to how terrible all those damn dental students and dentists really are....

From the bottom of my heart.... :barf:
 
Interesting thread.
Shamanrhd, don't give up your dream based on what others say.
If it is that easy to change your mind, becoming a good dentist was never really your dream.
Trust me. You will always meet jerks and you will face politics in any professions.

You probably meant well when you post this thread. But I have to say that you failed to communicate your good intention. After working many years in financial industry, I learned that great communicators almost always win battles. There is always a better way to communicate your idea without offending others. Then, you could truely meet your goal. Otherwise, it is just a waste of enegy.
 
Once I read you were a male hygienist it completely explained why you are so bitter. It's pretty obvious he has been slighted by probably 90% of dentists because of it. Should have seen it coming.

Might I suggest a flight attendant as your next job :rolleyes:
 
Well....thanks Raz - me too. A few things:

1. To you dental students that are acting like all hygienists know is how to take radiographs, how to use scaling instruments, and the numbers of the teeth - hahahahahahahah!!!! lol!!! That's absolutely ridiculous. What do you think was on the 8 hour exam I had to take for licensure(...that, incidentally I scored over 99% on)??? Try Tx planning, diagnosis of all types (differential, radiographic, clinical, therapeutic, etc.) (...yes DIAGNOSIS...), pharmaceuticals, oral path, periodontics, public health, amongst a host of other subjects including anat., phys., general science, etc., etc. I've looked at the course outline for DDS programs, and the classes are VERY similar....my guess is the average DDS has no idea how much an RDH know (especially one that paid attention and learned "her" stuff). If the shoe fits. Thanks to all who have recognized that Hygienists DO know alot, and the education is more rigorous than most other programs at 4 year institutions.

2. To the guy that was overtly flirting with me "...come work with me and I'll wine and dine you..." - firstly, you're begging to be sued for sexual harrassment. Be careful. Secondly, not only am I NOT FEMALE, but I'm also an ex-Marine. Still wanna' wine and dine me? Too bad - I'm married
:laugh:

3. I am seriously thinking about going back to D school. I haven't taken the DAT yet. I tested out of the math requirement to get into Hygiene school. So, I've got a little catching up to do. I've got to get the chem and O chem out of the way. I've already taken micro, phys., anatomy, english, etc. I've gotten A's in all (I had a 4.0 going into Hyg. school). Do you all think that if I caught up my math over the next year or so that my current A.A.S. degree, coupled with the completed math classes, and a good DAT score would get me in? I'd be applying for the NHSC grants to do the "northern exposure" type thing for sure. I'd probably stay in some sort of situation like that long term, as it means more to me to help people than to have millions.

4. I looked for a link to the "hygienist going back to school for 2 years in CA to recieve a DDS.." thing. Couldn't find it. Must be an urban legend. But, that wasn't the first time I had heard that. Sorry for not doing due diligence beforehand...

5. Are there schools that anyone is aware of that are more likely to take my RDH experience, good GPA, and completed community college requirements into consideration in when contemplating me as a candidate? SIU's DMD program sounds a little more lax than UIC's. Some posters on the "non-trad" threads seem to think that some dental schools don't mind - some have apparently gotten in with cc requirements. Texas kind of seems that way.

I think it's horrible that an RDH that wants to continue and take what to me is the next likely step (...the one that my patients are always asking me about...) and become a DDS has to take 11 years of school versus 8. And that's just my .20 cents Raz.

I'm about to graduate hygiene school in 2 months. I want to take the DDS step also. Did you ever get in?
 
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