Dentist + Orthodontist... Quick Question

[joobs]

Im currently a dental student. I was wondering if I wanted to practice orthodontics as a general dentist, How would I go about hiring an orthodontists in my office. Is anyone familiar with any resources or ways of accomplishing this? Any input?

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[Dr. Pedo]

Im currently a dental student. I was wondering if I wanted to practice orthodontics as a general dentist, How would I go about hiring an orthodontists in my office. Is anyone familiar with any resources or ways of accomplishing this? Any input?

Your question is unclear? Do you want a practice with an orthodontist or do YOU want to practice ortho?

If you want to practice ortho as a GP its usually not cost effective to do so----if that doesn't make sense now in a little while it will. Perhaps some interceptive and simple diastema closures but not true ortho. Now the second question-----getting an ortho in your practice won't help you do ortho because you'd simply give it to them so you could do your bread-n-butter procedures. Plus you are held to the same standards of a specialist if you desire to take on ortho in your office----and unless your super confident and taking numerous CE courses (even that isn't enough) then I would take on the headache. If ortho interests you then think about specializing. Please don't misconstrue my opinion but sometimes its better not to overextend yourself in practice.

 

[joobs]

ya but my dad is an orthodontist so i believe ortho would be in my best interest. i juss odnt want 2 more years of school

 

[UTDental]

ya but my dad is an orthodontist so i believe ortho would be in my best interest. i juss odnt want 2 more years of school

There are plenty of GPs out there that do exclusively ortho. There are many CE programs that certify you to do ortho. I heard of one dentist that hired two ortho assistants, doubled what the previous orthodontist was paying them, and now he does almost all ortho now (the assistants do all the work anyway). I just wouldn't like this route because you can't call yourself an orthodontist... but I doubt many patients would care though (as long as they get acceptable results).

 

[Dental08?09]

And don't forget if you are a GP practicing ortho you are held to the same standard as them when it comes your time in court.

Ortho is not as easy as many people make it out to be. Yeah I can see a GP doing minor ortho with brackets and invisalign...but no way fixing larger ailments like palatal expansions...etc

 

[GQ1]

There are plenty of GPs out there that do exclusively ortho. There are many CE programs that certify you to do ortho. I heard of one dentist that hired two ortho assistants, doubled what the previous orthodontist was paying them, and now he does almost all ortho now (the assistants do all the work anyway). I just wouldn't like this route because you can't call yourself an orthodontist... but I doubt many patients would care though (as long as they get acceptable results).

good luck to you dont see why not. if you do it the way mentioned above even better as ortho per procedure is not a high paying procedure unlike other specialties eg 5k, but if you can get a little volume going sounds great.

 

[DDSSlave]

You haven't really answered Dr.2b's question. It's tough to help you out, because I don't understand your question either. Are you asking how can you practice orthodontics as a GP or how can you hire an orthodontist to work part time in your practice doing your ortho?

In either case, why not just ask your dad?

Are you saying you want to practice orthodontics, but don't want to do the 2yr residency? If you're really interested in ortho, I'd recommend making the sacrifice and doing the residency. It's only 2-3 yrs. Otherwise you will always be limited in what you can treat, and you won't get any referrals from other GP's. This makes it difficult to run an exclusively ortho office.

If you're simply looking for ways to incorporate ortho into your office, get together with a local orthodontist whose willing to help. Invisalign is out there, but from what I've heard it can be unpredictable and is rather limited. Just remember to always keep yourself out of potential liability. Ortho can be very complicated. It's not as simple as these guru's selling you their CE courses want you to believe.

 

[DDSSlave]

There are many CE programs that certify you to do ortho.

Doing ortho (just like extracting impacted 3rds) does not require certification. So, I doubt any CE programs "certify" you to do ortho, but I may be wrong. The only exception I can think of is Invisalign certification, but that's really more of a marketing gimmick for the doctor to be able to claim they are "Invisalign Certified".

 

[joobs]

Yo, thank you guys so much for the input. I have to do this; I'm going to answer a question with a question: Do you think it's better to incorporate orthodontics into my practice via hiring another ortho partner and working general myself, or me doing ortho as a general dentist? Pros, cons, likely outcomes etc?

 

[joobs]

ps I did ask my dad he said you gotta pay the orthodontist like 1000 per day anddd he even said some of his patients ask to see his credentials so if im a general doing ortho i might run into some problems. Plus hes like u gotta go to school if u really wanna do ortho its that simple.

 

[joobs]

ok nm I figured out what im going to do. Thanks for the replies!

 

[toofache32]

ya but my dad is an orthodontist so i believe ortho would be in my best interest. i juss odnt want 2 more years of school

Funny...nobody wants to climb Mt Everest, but everybody wants to say they did.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Funny...nobody wants to climb Mt Everest, but everybody wants to say they did.

But not quite the same. I have no problem with GPs doing some ortho. What I have a problem with is them screwing patients over because they refuse to, or don't know when, to refer out the difficult stuff to orthodontists.

 

[toofache32]

My dad was the only boarded ortho in town, but there was another GP calling himself an orthodontist and doing tons of cases regardless of difficulty. It was sort of funny when his 2 kids came along and needed routine ortho he sent them to my dad.

 

[GQ1]

But not quite the same. I have no problem with GPs doing some ortho. What I have a problem with is them screwing patients over because they refuse to, or don't know when, to refer out the difficult stuff to orthodontists.

agreed - for all specialties.

 

[DDSSlave]

My dad was the only boarded ortho in town, but there was another GP calling himself an orthodontist and doing tons of cases regardless of difficulty. It was sort of funny when his 2 kids came along and needed routine ortho he sent them to my dad.

Couldn't he be reported to the state board for false advertising? Or did your dad figure it was better to just ignore him? It seems no matter what the profession (dentistry or medicine, generalist or specialist) there will always be doctors arrogant enough to presume they have boundless expertise while they blindly compromise patient care.

 

[12YearOldKid]

70% of all endo is done by GPs. 50% of all ortho is done by GPs. If general dentists didn't do ortho, there wouldn't be enough orthodontists to meet the need. I personally don't plan on doing ortho, but have no problem with GPs who are willing to put in the time and training to learn how to do it right.

It would be great if everybody who wanted to do ortho would do a residency, but there simply aren't enough programs for that to happen. Sure, there are some GPs who shouldn't be doing ortho, but I'm willing to bet there are quite a few orthos who shouldn't be doing ortho. From an access to care standpoint, GPs doing ortho is in the best interest of the public.

 

[UTDental]

70% of all endo is done by GPs. 50% of all ortho is done by GPs. If general dentists didn't do ortho, there wouldn't be enough orthodontists to meet the need. I personally don't plan on doing ortho, but have no problem with GPs who are willing to put in the time and training to learn how to do it right.

It would be great if everybody who wanted to do ortho would do a residency, but there simply aren't enough programs for that to happen. Sure, there are some GPs who shouldn't be doing ortho, but I'm willing to bet there are quite a few orthos who shouldn't be doing ortho. From an access to care standpoint, GPs doing ortho is in the best interest of the public.

Great Post

 

[toofache32]

If general dentists didn't do ortho, there wouldn't be enough orthodontists to meet the need.

I guess I've never thought of there being an exceptional "need" for ortho outside of those functional problems often treated with ortho + surgery, which are the same cases private practice orthodontists tend to avoid. I think people "need" orthodontists like they "need" cosmetic surgeons. Ever wonder why insurance rarely pays for ortho?

I personally don't plan on doing ortho, but have no problem with GPs who are willing to put in the time and training to learn how to do it right.

The problem is that there is no way to certify/verify/credential outside of a residency. Getting your M.O degree (Motel Orthodontics) in a few weekend courses is a hard temptation to resist for many GPs.

 

[drben]

70% of all endo is done by GPs. 50% of all ortho is done by GPs. If general dentists didn't do ortho, there wouldn't be enough orthodontists to meet the need. I personally don't plan on doing ortho, but have no problem with GPs who are willing to put in the time and training to learn how to do it right.

It would be great if everybody who wanted to do ortho would do a residency, but there simply aren't enough programs for that to happen. Sure, there are some GPs who shouldn't be doing ortho, but I'm willing to bet there are quite a few orthos who shouldn't be doing ortho. From an access to care standpoint, GPs doing ortho is in the best interest of the public.

The sad reality is that the vast majority of GP's doing orthodontics don't know what they don't know. Orthodontics is more difficult than just slapping on brackets, putting wires in, having assistants do all the work, etc...Most GP's don't understand what differentiates an excellent orthodontic result versus an orthodontic failure with straight teeth (I would encourage you guys to post what YOU view as orthodontic success and prove me wrong)

"Access to care" for orthodontics is a bunch of bull****. First, it assumes that EVERYONE is ENTITLED to health care, and second that orthodontics meets the criteria of a "necessary health service"...come on, how many people do you really know that have died from a malocclusion?

Toofache put it perfectly...with respect to being in the "best interest of the public"...this is tantamount to saying that family practitioners doing facelifts would be in the best interest of the public because plastic surgeons aren't ubiquitous.

Back to the OP's question...one GP doc could not offer enough referrals to keep an orthodontist busy. NO other referrals would come from other GP's...dental politics preclude this from occuring.

Ben

 

[UTDental]

The sad reality is that the vast majority of GP's doing orthodontics don't know what they don't know. Orthodontics is more difficult than just slapping on brackets, putting wires in, having assistants do all the work, etc...Most GP's don't understand what differentiates an excellent orthodontic result versus an orthodontic failure with straight teeth (I would encourage you guys to post what YOU view as orthodontic success and prove me wrong)

Gimme a break. Most people's chief complaint is crooked teeth. So the dentist gives them straight teeth but they are not in Class I occlusion. For the adult patient, I don't see a problem with this. As long as you obtain a stable result that addresses the patient's chief concern, that's a success in my book. So they have a Skeletal class II malocclusion... Boo hoo.

 

[drben]

Gimme a break. Most people's chief complaint is crooked teeth. So the dentist gives them straight teeth but they are not in Class I occlusion. For the adult patient, I don't see a problem with this. As long as you obtain a stable result that addresses the patient's chief concern, that's a success in my book. So they have a Skeletal class II malocclusion... Boo hoo

So you're saying a Class I occlusion should only be the treatment objective in children and adolescents??? Classic...

You're definition of "success" as "straight teeth" is about what I would expect

 

[GQ1]

Gimme a break. Most people's chief complaint is crooked teeth. So the dentist gives them straight teeth but they are not in Class I occlusion. For the adult patient, I don't see a problem with this. As long as you obtain a stable result that addresses the patient's chief concern, that's a success in my book. So they have a Skeletal class II malocclusion... Boo hoo

So you're saying a Class I occlusion should only be the treatment objective in children and adolescents??? Classic...

You're definition of "success" as "straight teeth" is about what I would expect

from a prostho point of view if i have a severe class 2 pt i know i will not get class 1 to achieve canine guidance, so this is the only case where i will seek to have solid anterior contact in MI on a lingual table, with a long centric occlusion, wide centric for their excess side shift and unilateral balanced occlusion over at least 3 posterior teeth. shallow as possible overbite that will eventually achieve disclusion. id correct the resultant dual plane of mandibular occlusion by grinding, very reluctantly and rarely crowning. i cant achieve ideal but this will work. the vast majority of gps would not know what theyre doing here, only reducing the overjet/overbite for esthetics

 

[UTDental]

Gimme a break. Most people's chief complaint is crooked teeth. So the dentist gives them straight teeth but they are not in Class I occlusion. For the adult patient, I don't see a problem with this. As long as you obtain a stable result that addresses the patient's chief concern, that's a success in my book. So they have a Skeletal class II malocclusion... Boo hoo

So you're saying a Class I occlusion should only be the treatment objective in children and adolescents??? Classic...

You're definition of "success" as "straight teeth" is about what I would expect

Yes, that's success to me. Like you said earlier, people don't die from malocclusions. Of course I'd strive for ideal but many adults aren't going to go through 1-2 years of ortho to get that "oh so critical" Angle Class I. So there's other options for them that will address their concerns of a crooked/crowded dentition. And so far nobody that I'm aware of has died.