Dentistry salary

[Mary1984]

Hello,
I would like all the dentists here to be honest with me because I am making a big decision. I have my Master's degree in electrical engineering and I would like to start my education in dental school. I talked to the advisors and for that I need to study at least 2 years in a college or university before getting dental school admission. My question is that do you think it will worth according to the dentists' salary? I appreciate it if any body can give me an actual number for the salary so that I can compare it to my salary as an engineer.

Thanks.

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[sgv]

BLS says 120-150k but ADA says 190k. salary rises and falls with the economy. associate generally pays less than owner. salary changes depending on where you live. it also depends on how much debt you'll get into. first debt will be dental school. if you end up at a private school, you're looking at 400k in debt so youll be making chump change (salary after taxes - 60,000 = spending money for 10 years) if you plan on paying it off in ten years. you could pay it off in 30 yrs but you will pay almost a million if you do. second debt will be buying a practice or building your own.

a good idea is going to one of those cheap state schools or military. can't look at this in short term. gotta look long term.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=868931

 

[rbmdmd]

4 yrs of dental school then 1 yr residency optional, start off as an associate making approx 110k and work your way up to 250-300k+ working 4 days a week or maybe more as an owner....is it worth it for you, 6 yrs before you start making 100k....if you really really think you will love it, yes, if not, no

 

[johnho771]

Dentist pay is highly variable. It is not really a salaried job. Dentists are often paid based on their production. Hence why first year pay could be from <100k to more than 150k. The big money in dentistry usually comes with ownership of a practice. However the process to ownership can vary after school and is often dependent on school debt.

Not sure i you will need to take out loans for dental school, but if you do I highly recommend going to the cheapest school you could go to. Limiting debt out of school will put you on a better track towards higher pay in the future.

 

[Mary1984]

Thanks all of you for your good responses. I live in California and the nearest dental school to me is UCLA. Probably this is one of the expensive dental schools. One more question that I have is that Can I work for a dentist when I am a dental student? And how much do I get paid? I can continue my job in engineering while I take the courses for the prerequisites. So What I think is that I won't make money for 4 years if I can't work while I am a student.
I appreciate all your answers and your idea regarding making my decision is very important to me. Please let me know if I have any options for having a job like working in the university clinic while I am a student and if yes how much do I earn?

 

[CoffeeDDS]

Thanks all of you for your good responses. I live in California and the nearest dental school to me is UCLA. Probably this is one of the expensive dental schools. One more question that I have is that Can I work for a dentist when I am a dental student? And how much do I get paid? I can continue my job in engineering while I take the courses for the prerequisites. So What I think is that I won't make money for 4 years if I can't work while I am a student.
I appreciate all your answers and your idea regarding making my decision is very important to me. Please let me know if I have any options for having a job like working in the university clinic while I am a student and if yes how much do I earn?

Dental school will consume your time, you won't be able to find a job outside of school. Maybe a weekend gig as a bartender or a baby sitter but don't plan on working during the week.

 

[lwen5]

If I were you, I would look into Physician assistant. Dental salaries are going nowhere but down. Physician assistant salaries are going nowhere but up. Furthermore the future of private practice dentistry (which rakes in the most money for dentists) is uncertain.

 

[zabolekar]

100K for 48 weeks w/ no benefits in major metropolitan area
140K rural

Double the number with 15 years of experience and practice ownership

 

[sgv]

Thanks all of you for your good responses. I live in California and the nearest dental school to me is UCLA. Probably this is one of the expensive dental schools. One more question that I have is that Can I work for a dentist when I am a dental student? And how much do I get paid? I can continue my job in engineering while I take the courses for the prerequisites. So What I think is that I won't make money for 4 years if I can't work while I am a student.
I appreciate all your answers and your idea regarding making my decision is very important to me. Please let me know if I have any options for having a job like working in the university clinic while I am a student and if yes how much do I earn?

no moonlighting in ds. dental school is already like a fulltime job with classes and labs from 8-5 for most days and studying at night. both uc's are almost as expensive as private schools. you'll probably take out loans like the rest of us. either fortunately or unfortunately loans are temporarily lower than what they used to be a year ago. they're 5.4% vs 6.8%. they wont be 5.4% for long...

 

[sgv]

If I were you, I would look into Physician assistant. Dental salaries are going nowhere but down. Physician assistant salaries are going nowhere but up. Furthermore the future of private practice dentistry (which rakes in the most money for dentists) is uncertain.

national average salary according to ada is going down but dentist salary has largely been attached to the economy. people dont buy out of pocket cosmetic procedures in ****ty economy.

 

[yappy]

If I were you, I would look into Physician assistant. Dental salaries are going nowhere but down. Physician assistant salaries are going nowhere but up. Furthermore the future of private practice dentistry (which rakes in the most money for dentists) is uncertain.

There is no indication that PA salary will increase; however, maybe there employment opportunities will.

Private practice will continue to be the dominent mode of practice for the foreseeable future. Corp dentistry is set have ~15% of dental services by 2025.

 

[johnho771]

Don't think salaries have been going down as much as they appear in ADA reports. The salaries are all adjusted for 2011, and when you look at what real salaries were in their actual years the trend in salaries has been quite flat.

PA seems like it can be a great and fulfilling career, but from a money perspective, it seems there is only so much potential before hitting a ceiling, which is not as much the case in dentistry.

I think corporate dentistry will continue to grow, especially as the model appeals to many new graduates. But I think private practices will still be pretty prevalent.

 

[MrWilson]

A major factor depends upon where you practice. I can only speak for my area. Offers I'm hearing from those coming straight out have packages worth as low as $95k up to as high as ~$175k, with most around the $120-140k mark. I'm sure if you do a one year residency of some sort, you may start out a little higher by $20-30k. About half of my class are going straight out, and the other half are doing a residency of some sort.
Also, as someone stated, a large part of your salary may be based upon your production/collections you bring in.
Make sure you really like it, b/c dental school sucks the life out of you. Clinic is a blast, but the book work sucks, and you have to put in the time. You'll need to include love ones when making the decision, b/c they will feel sacrifice you are making. Dental school sucks, but when I'm in clinic, I instantly remember why this is the best profession. There is a reason US News Weekly or whatever had it #1.

 

[CoffeeDDS]

A major factor depends upon where you practice. I can only speak for my area. Offers I'm hearing from those coming straight out have packages worth as low as $95k up to as high as ~$175k, with most around the $120-140k mark. I'm sure if you do a one year residency of some sort, you may start out a little higher by $20-30k. About half of my class are going straight out, and the other half are doing a residency of some sort.
Also, as someone stated, a large part of your salary may be based upon your production/collections you bring in.
Make sure you really like it, b/c dental school sucks the life out of you. Clinic is a blast, but the book work sucks, and you have to put in the time. You'll need to include love ones when making the decision, b/c they will feel sacrifice you are making. Dental school sucks, but when I'm in clinic, I instantly remember why this is the best profession. There is a reason US News Weekly or whatever had it #1.

REALLY make sure you love it. The investment to become a dentist is serious.

On another note, how much control do new dentists have over their work hours? If someone wanted to work for 50-60hrs a week to earn more, do they have that option?

 

[AChad26]

It all depends on how much work you want to put in and how good you are with patients and your business sense. If you are good, you will make money. If you aren't, then you won't make as much. Pretty simple. The other thing is income isn't the only factor of economic success. You may have a large income, but if you don't know how to work the tax system and have substantial debt, will you be as financially sound?. As it's been said time and time again, make sure you actually like dentistry. Shadowing a lot is important. It's one thing to lie on the app saying you shadowed 300 hours when really you only did 5 and think you have seen enough. It's another to actually do it and learn if you really like it.

 

[TJNova2011]

100K for 48 weeks w/ no benefits in major metropolitan area
140K rural

Double the number with 15 years of experience and practice ownership

These numbers will go down significantly as the market is flooded with dentists.

 

[TJNova2011]

A major factor depends upon where you practice. I can only speak for my area. Offers I'm hearing from those coming straight out have packages worth as low as $95k up to as high as ~$175k, with most around the $120-140k mark. I'm sure if you do a one year residency of some sort, you may start out a little higher by $20-30k. About half of my class are going straight out, and the other half are doing a residency of some sort.
Also, as someone stated, a large part of your salary may be based upon your production/collections you bring in.
Make sure you really like it, b/c dental school sucks the life out of you. Clinic is a blast, but the book work sucks, and you have to put in the time. You'll need to include love ones when making the decision, b/c they will feel sacrifice you are making. Dental school sucks, but when I'm in clinic, I instantly remember why this is the best profession. There is a reason US News Weekly or whatever had it #1.

I'd say that these numbers are inflated. Most metro positions are 90k-100k. Boonies are 140k. And these are places far away from and metro 2.5 hours.

You need to know that in order to pay off 250-400k of loans it'll take $40-50k per year of your net/pretax/ to pay just loans.

 

[MrWilson]

I'd say that these numbers are inflated. Most metro positions are 90k-100k. Boonies are 140k. And these are places far away from and metro 2.5 hours.

You need to know that in order to pay off 250-400k of loans it'll take $40-50k per year of your net/pretax/ to pay just loans.

Again, these numbers represent my area. BTW, that's gross salary/total package worth. However, the highest salaries I hear from an associate standpoint are in corporate dentistry (in metro areas). Those salaries are starting around $150k, whereas your mom and pop practices will start a new grad around $110-120k, but possibly more or less. Community health has a broad range, but I knew a new grad that started at $115-120k base, ~$10k sign up on bonus, and $20-30k/year towards loan forgiveness for a two year contract. Some people start out doing temp work at $65-$85/hr.

 

[yappy]

These numbers will go down significantly as the market is flooded with dentists.

Yeah. Fillings, crowns, etc. will most likely be done a few dollars above cost. Healthcare markets always work like that.
/sarcasm

 

[gryffindor]

Typically dentists are not salaried like electrical engineers are.

In order to make more money than an electrical engineer, you have to break free of the W2 world and become a business owner. This comes at a significant cost and requires business acumen and skills that are not taught in dental school.

 

[Screwtape]

Talking salary on this forum is borderline ridiculous, unless you are looking for a specfic city. Salaries can vary significantly within states and even counties, let alone the entire country represented by this forum.

 

[jirotrom]

I'd say that these numbers are inflated. Most metro positions are 90k-100k. Boonies are 140k. And these are places far away from and metro 2.5 hours.

You need to know that in order to pay off 250-400k of loans it'll take $40-50k per year of your net/pretax/ to pay just loans.

glad I'll be a Texas grad, 160k in loans

 

[Silent Cool]

glad I'll be a Texas grad, 160k in loans

Texas rocks!

 

[ubdental]

I'd say that these numbers are inflated. Most metro positions are 90k-100k. Boonies are 140k. And these are places far away from and metro 2.5 hours.

You need to know that in order to pay off 250-400k of loans it'll take $40-50k per year of your net/pretax/ to pay just loans.

Agree with TJNoVA here. I've been out a while, and have been working in the northeast and in the south. I say that $150k for a new grad is unheard of. If you want to make $175k as a new grad, then it's more like new grad out of a specialty residency, e.g Pedo. A fresh baked dentist from dental school being offered $175k is a fantasy, regardless of "area".
You can expect offers ranging from 90k-120k across the board. Whether you're offered flat salary or production, at the end of the year, it'll calculate out to be similar. Dental employers are not dumb. They do their research. Don't dream too high b/c you'll be so disappointed.

 

[TJNova2011]

Yeah. Fillings, crowns, etc. will most likely be done a few dollars above cost. Healthcare markets always work like that.

After blue cross blue shield negotiated fee... and then they send you a CC so you get socked 2 more percent... dentistry is high overhead... wake up. Insurance co. rule the rooster.

 

[chuckd303]

REALLY make sure you love it. The investment to become a dentist is serious.

On another note, how much control do new dentists have over their work hours? If someone wanted to work for 50-60hrs a week to earn more, do they have that option?

I am one who got up to working 6 days a week in a saturated area. It was hard to turn work away when you start out you are grateful to be busy one day, two days, and so on. The past 10 years I have been working 5 days/ week at about 45 hours per week. I have learned why most dentists limit themselves to a four day week. The work is physically demanding. You have patients who don't want to open wide, won't allow you to tip the chair back, and you are the one straining your neck to see and perform well. Psychologically it is draining dealing with ornery people and people who don't care at all about their teeth. 60% overhead as a GP is a realistic goal. I am still happy I chose this profession but was not aware the physical and psychological demands placed on us. Monetary compensation is not rewarding enough to do this work. There are easier ways to make money. You must enjoy the work and feel like you are adding value to peoples health even when they don't necessarily appreciate it.

 

[lwen5]

The best gig in dentistry is to start your own school. I say we SDNers get together and start our own school. We can add an ortho residency that takes like 15 residents per class (like Roseman) and charge a lot of tuition. As long as we get initial accreditation, thats OK.

All of course subsidized by the hardworking American taxpayer via federal student loans.

 

[yappy]

How / why can Tx offer such low tuition for higher education?

 

[lwen5]

How / why can Tx offer such low tuition for higher education?

Texas collects I think the third highest tax revenue in the country total (CA and NY lead it but only because of their sky-high taxes). Texas (unlike CA, NY) is not a welfare state. It also doesn't pander to illegal immigrants. So in other words because it is fiscally responsible. California's UCLA and UCSF have among the highest tuition of all public schools and to top it off they are both located in high cost of living areas

 

[ubdental]

I am one who got up to working 6 days a week in a saturated area. It was hard to turn work away when you start out you are grateful to be busy one day, two days, and so on. The past 10 years I have been working 5 days/ week at about 45 hours per week. I have learned why most dentists limit themselves to a four day week. The work is physically demanding. You have patients who don't want to open wide, won't allow you to tip the chair back, and you are the one straining your neck to see and perform well. Psychologically it is draining dealing with ornery people and people who don't care at all about their teeth. 60% overhead as a GP is a realistic goal. I am still happy I chose this profession but was not aware the physical and psychological demands placed on us. Monetary compensation is not rewarding enough to do this work. There are easier ways to make money. You must enjoy the work and feel like you are adding value to peoples health even when they don't necessarily appreciate it.

Thanks for sharing your real world experience. A lot of threads in this forum have been so misleading regarding general dentistry.. how your earning potential is unlimited by doing x/y/z procedures. .It is indeed a very tough profession to be in. I can't keep doing it, but I deeply admire those who can.

 

[ubdental]

The best gig in dentistry is to start your own school. I say we SDNers get together and start our own school. We can add an ortho residency that takes like 15 residents per class (like Roseman) and charge a lot of tuition. As long as we get initial accreditation, thats OK.

All of course subsidized by the hardworking American taxpayer via federal student loans.

You are right!! that's why Lutheran Medical keeps opening up new residency programs across the country. Just Pedo alone, LMC has 75 residents (and counting) while other genuine programs have at most 9 residents.

 

[TJNova2011]

You are right!! that's why Lutheran Medical keeps opening up new residency programs across the country. Just Pedo alone, LMC has 75 residents (and counting) while other genuine programs have at most 9 residents.

Yup have one central person lecture to everyone..... utilize the government resources and turn out profits. Since LMC pays so much (because they are dental mills) they will never go out of trend.

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Hello,
I would like all the dentists here to be honest with me because I am making a big decision. I have my Master's degree in electrical engineering and I would like to start my education in dental school. I talked to the advisors and for that I need to study at least 2 years in a college or university before getting dental school admission. My question is that do you think it will worth according to the dentists' salary? I appreciate it if any body can give me an actual number for the salary so that I can compare it to my salary as an engineer.

Thanks.

Hello,

Before you contemplate about changing career, make sure you like dentistry as a profession and not as a "money maker". If you like dentistry then go for it. In your position, it probably will take at least 2 years for the required pre-dental classes then 4 years after that. Remember that dental school admission is quite competitive so there is a chance that you may not get in. Regarding the salary, you will no doubt make more than an engineer but at the same time, you will end up between 200-250K in student loan too. However, making 125-150K/year starting out with 250K debt is a good investment in my view. And as time goes by, your salary should be going up too. I can say with almost certainty that as a DDS, your salary should be 6 digits even as DS faculty member.DP

 

[Mary1984]

Hello,

Before you contemplate about changing career, make sure you like dentistry as a profession and not as a "money maker". If you like dentistry then go for it. In your position, it probably will take at least 2 years for the required pre-dental classes then 4 years after that. Remember that dental school admission is quite competitive so there is a chance that you may not get in. Regarding the salary, you will no doubt make more than an engineer but at the same time, you will end up between 200-250K in student loan too. However, making 125-150K/year starting out with 250K debt is a good investment in my view. And as time goes by, your salary should be going up too. I can say with almost certainty that as a DDS, your salary should be 6 digits even as DS faculty member.DP

Dr. Phan,
Thanks for your detailed explanation. I have two questions. IS 125-150k a salary for a fresh graduated student? Am I going to make that money right after graduation? My next question is that is it possible not to get the admission at all?
Thanks,

 

[AirborneDentist]

Consider the Army.....they pay for all your school...you start off at around 100K...and can make close to 200K after several years...and lifetime retirement.

 

[Mary1984]

Consider the Army.....they pay for all your school...you start off at around 100K...and can make close to 200K after several years...and lifetime retirement.

Thanks for your response. I have some questions about Army. Should I work in the army for all of my career life? Or I can work out of the Army after several years? My other question is that do they accept somebody who is not a US citizen?
Thanks

 

[sgv]

Thanks for your response. I have some questions about Army. Should I work in the army for all of my career life? Or I can work out of the Army after several years? My other question is that do they accept somebody who is not a US citizen?
Thanks

Military is a great choice for those with a lot of debt. You have be a citizen (I don't have any written proof but I'm pretty darn sure. If you don't need to be citizen, I'd be pissed that taxpayer's dollars are going to fund non-citizen's $500,000 education over citizen's. Like super pissed.).

 

[Ar2]

Military is a great choice for those with a lot of debt. You have be a citizen (I don't have any written proof but I'm pretty darn sure. If you don't need to be citizen, I'd be pissed that taxpayer's dollars are going to fund non-citizen's $500,000 education over citizen's. Like super pissed.).

+1

 

[Mary1984]

Military is a great choice for those with a lot of debt. You have be a citizen (I don't have any written proof but I'm pretty darn sure. If you don't need to be citizen, I'd be pissed that taxpayer's dollars are going to fund non-citizen's $500,000 education over citizen's. Like super pissed.).

I found that I have to be a citizen to get that fund

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Dr. Phan,
Thanks for your detailed explanation. I have two questions. IS 125-150k a salary for a fresh graduated student? Am I going to make that money right after graduation? My next question is that is it possible not to get the admission at all?
Thanks,

Hello,

125-150K for fresh graduated student is very possible in general dentistry and quite reachable for specialists. Remember that it all depends on many factors such as location, luck, skill, personality, your chairside manners... For sure you should be making at least 100K fresh. It is very possible that you may not gain admission. Do you have good GPA in your undergrad? DP

 

[Mary1984]

Hello,

125-150K for fresh graduated student is very possible in general dentistry and quite reachable for specialists. Remember that it all depends on many factors such as location, luck, skill, personality, your chairside manners... For sure you should be making at least 100K fresh. It is very possible that you may not gain admission. Do you have good GPA in your undergrad? DP

Thanks Dr. Phan,
YEs. I have a good GPA in my undergrad. But I have to take some courses as prerequisites because my major in undergrad was electrical engineering.

 

[Dr. Robert B. Stanton]

Hello,

125-150K for fresh graduated student is very possible in general dentistry and quite reachable for specialists. Remember that it all depends on many factors such as location, luck, skill, personality, your chairside manners... For sure you should be making at least 100K fresh. It is very possible that you may not gain admission. Do you have good GPA in your undergrad? DP

I agree with Dr. Dai Phan on this one, there are many factors that will determine each practitioners value. However, you should make over 100k.

 

[TJNova2011]

Hello,

125-150K for fresh graduated student is very possible in general dentistry and quite reachable for specialists. Remember that it all depends on many factors such as location, luck, skill, personality, your chairside manners... For sure you should be making at least 100K fresh. It is very possible that you may not gain admission. Do you have good GPA in your undergrad? DP

anyone I know who was over 120K is in the sticks. 30-120 minutes OUTSIDE a metro...

 

[Dgeorg6]

Just because you don't know anyone who makes over 120k coming out of school doesn't mean they do not exist. Your area could be way different than many others. I know a guy who started out making 200k as an associate in a big practice in a metro area and I know a woman who made 160k her first year out in a very rural area. I know at least 5 or so recent grads and I know each and every one of them makes OVER 120k. Just b\c people can't make that much money in NY or California their 1st year out doesn't mean they can't elsewhere.

And also just because you aren't in a huge city with 500k+ people in it doesn't mean you are in the "sticks". Not that I'm saying that is what you are referring to, more so because I feel like people on this site think it is a preposterous idea to not be living in a huge city and that no one would want to live in a nice little suburbia area or a mid-sized city.

 

[Screwtape]

Our new grads are averaging ~$125k. And I fully agree with Dgeorg6.

 

[rbmdmd]

whatever you do find a GOOD lawyer and a GOOD accountant who have specifically worked on dental transactions and contracts before...

 

[tnyprkr]

I'm a new grad out of residency and am pulling in 125+ in the NYC area - I don't think that's a stretch 175+ would be

 

[Northwoods00]

Rural areas such as Northern Wisconsin offer new grads over $150k starting salary. Some of these clinics pay on production and their dentists make well over 200k their second year.

 

[DBarrett]

Rural areas such as Northern Wisconsin offer new grads over $150k starting salary. Some of these clinics pay on production and their dentists make well over 200k their second year.

It's interesting that Dentists in rural areas seem to make more money. Just due to less competition and lover overhead costs I'm assuming?

 

[Squishytooth]

The best way to earn a high income in dentistry isn't actually by salary. I've been working as a dentist for a little over 12 months and I have successfully increased my percentage from 25 to now 40% (via a job change and negotiations) which is the industry average here. My monthly gross varies between 60-80k so my take home income monthly (before tax) averages approx 25-30k. I was only able to increase my % based income to 40% because of my performance.

Few general dentists earn this kind of income because of:
1) Fixed salaries (no matter how much work you do you earn the same amount)
2) Lack of patients (too few patients = less dollars if you are on a %)
3) Lack of productivity (not effectively maximising earning potential)
4) Fussy about type of work/ work conditions - which limits your potential income
5) Low percentage agreement contract - with an employer unwilling to renegotiate