Dermatopathology Fellowship 2016-2017

[NYnow]

Here it goes again!

I have listed the programs and (available spots). Number of spots are likely correct in most cases as I have taken them from their respective websites, but in some cases they didn't mention it and so I guesstimated it from various sources. You are welcome to edit them if you have reliable information.

Basically, at this point, I would like to invite senior members to discuss ins and outs of the programs they are familiar with. Any changes in leadership, status, reputation or program philosophy. A little later, candidates can start posting about interviews and offers, and whatever is on their mind! Let us have some fun.

State ____ City____ Program_________ (Spots) (Comments)
AL ____ Birmingham ____ University of Alabama ___ (1)
AR ____ Little Rock ____ University of Arkansas ___ (1)
CA ____ Los Angeles ____ UCLA Medical Center ___ (2) (2 years)
CA ____ San Francisco ____ UCSF ___ (1) (2 years)
CA ____ Stanford ____ Stanford University ___ (2) (2 years)
CO ____ Aurora ____ University of Colorado ___ (2)
CT ____ New Haven ____ Yale-New Haven Medical Center ___ (1) (2 years)
FL ____ Gainesville ____ University of Florida ___ (1)
FL ____ Miami ____ Jackson Memorial Hospital ___ (2) (program closed?)
FL ____ Tampa ____ University of South Florida Morsani ___ (1)
GA ____ Atlanta ____ Emory University ___ (1)
IL ____ Chicago ____ Northwestern University ___ (1) (2 years)
IL ____ Chicago ____ University of Chicago ___ (2)
IL ____ Hines ____ Loyola University ___ (1) (Filled for 2016)
IN ____ Indianapolis ____ Indiana University ___ (1)
LA ____ New Orleans ____ Tulane University ___ (1)
MA ____ Boston ____ Beth Israel/Harvard Medical School ___ (3)
MA ____ Boston ____ Boston University Medical Center ___ (1)
MA ____ Newton ____ Tufts Medical Center ___ (2)
MA ____ Worcester ____ University of Massachusetts ___ (1)
MD ____ Bethesda ____ National Capital Consortium ___ (2) (for military only)
MI ____ Ann Arbor ____ University of Michigan ___ (1)
MN ____ Rochester ____ Mayo Clinic (Rochester) ___ (2)
MO ____ St Louis ____ St Louis University School of Medicine ___ (2)
MO ____ St Louis ____ Washington University ___ (1) (Filled)
NC ____ Durham ____ Duke University Hospital ___ (1)
NC ____ Winston-Salem ____ Wake Forest University ___ (1)
NH ____ Lebanon ____ Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center ___ (1)
NY ____ Bronx ____ Albert Einstein College of Medicine ___ (2)
NY ____ New York ____ Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center ___ (2)
NY ____ New York ____ Mount Sinai School of Medicine ___ (1) (2 years, 0 spots this cycle?)
NY ____ New York ____ New York University School of Medicine ___ (1)
NY ____ New York ____ SUNY Health Science Center at Brooklyn ___ (7) (Corrected, 3-5 spots)
OH ____ Cincinnati ____ University of Cincinnati ___ (2) (Derm candidates only, program closed?)
OH ____ Cleveland ____ Cleveland Clinic Foundation ___ (1)
OH ____ Columbus ____ Ohio State University Hospital ___ (1)
PA ____ Danville ____ Geisinger Health System ___ (2)
PA ____ Hershey ____ Penn State University/Milton S Hershey ___ (1)
PA ____ Philadelphia ____ Drexel University College of Medicine ___ (1) (program closed?)
PA ____ Philadelphia ____ Thomas Jefferson University ___ (1) (program closed? or 2 spots?)
PA ____ Philadelphia ____ University of Pennsylvania ___ (2)
PA ____ Pittsburgh ____ UPMC Medical Education ___ (2)
RI ____ Providence ____ Roger Williams Medical Center ___ (1) (program closed?)
SC ____ Charleston ____ Medical University of South Carolina ___ (1) (Filled)
TN ____ Memphis ____ University of Tennessee ___ (1) (worthless - always an internal candidate)
TX ____ Dallas ____ ProPath ___ (2)
TX ____ Dallas ____ Cockerell Dermpath ___ (2)
TX ____ Galveston ____ University of Texas Medical Branch ___ (2)
TX ____ Houston ____ Baylor College of Medicine ___ (1)
TX ____ Houston ____ M D Anderson Cancer Center ___ (2) (2 years)
TX ____ Houston ____ University of Texas at Houston ___ (1)
VA ____ Charlottesville ____ University of Virginia ___ (2)
VT ____ Burlington ____ University of Vermont/Fletcher Allen ___ (1)
WA ____ Seattle ____ University of Washington ___ (1)

Johns Hopkins may have a fellowship.
Rutgers/UMDNJ no longer offers a fellowship, closed.

PS: As I come to know more about these programs, including through participants on this thread, I will update this first post to unify everything.

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[coroner]

What, what...SUNY Downstate has 7 spots??? That seems like a lot. If only these were the number of total AP/CP training spots...then we'd have a quick turnaround in the job market

 

[Tissue issue]

What, what...SUNY Downstate has 7 spots??? That seems like a lot. If only these were the number of total AP/CP training spots...then we'd have a quick turnaround in the job market

Ackerman Academy (Quest). Probably enough dermpath slots for the entire nation these days.

 

[Dral]

Ackerman may have 7 spots listed, but I don't think they typically fill that many. Last year there were 3, this year there are 5, next year there are 3. The following year there are 2 or 3 (one of the spots kinda moved to Jefferson, who I believe could have 2, not 1).

Hope that information helps future applicants.

I applied successfully last cycle. If you're applying, make sure to apply early and broadly if possible.

Any word about ERAS this year, or is that idea totally gone for now?

 

[Dral]

Oh, also, I believe Hopkins may have a program again. I'm not 100% on that, though.

 

[NYnow]

I applied successfully last cycle. If you're applying, make sure to apply early and broadly if possible.

Any word about ERAS this year, or is that idea totally gone for now?

As far as I know, the idea is gone for now. I have a few questions:

-What would an early mean? Early July, all July or before July?

-If you apply to 50 places, how do you then select your top 5-6 places to interview if invitations trickle in over 2-months period and the first ones to offer you an interview are not in your top list? I was thinking of 2 or 3 waves of application approach, but then 2nd/3rd wave programs may recognize that. Your advice?

 

[Dral]

Sometime at end of July or beginning of August.

No program wants to think they are an afterthought choice. I think applying to all places early on is the best approach. Depending on how competitive you are and whom you know, it's best not to set up any limitations imo.

Since there is no ERAS, offers are rolling. Rolling offers aren't optimal for candidates...I feel blessed that it actually worked out really well for me. I had strong connections to a place and loved it when I interviewed. It was my first offer...and my last. I think I said yes before the director even finished the sentence offering me the position. heh.

Rolling offers sound like a good idea, but when you think about it, they aren't the best. The ball is in the court of programs in this scenario.

If you are offered a position, but are awaiting another offer from someplace you interviewed, it's ok to tell the person making the first offer that you need a few days to discuss with sig. other/loved ones/family, etc. However, a few days means a few days. It's poor form to hold an offer longer than that, the way I understand it.

In the end, you have to roll the dice so to speak. If you feel you are a strong candidate, you can try to target your optimal programs. If you're not as strong a candidate, I suggest you really apply early and broadly and take what you can get. If you've seen last years thread, you can get the impression that it's pretty competitive. Obviously there are not 'take backsies'. Once you turn a program down, someone else has probably already been offered and accepted the position even before you go to sleep that same night.

 

[NYnow]

Thanks Dral!

Is it a good form to email directly to the program director now and attach a CV, before you send in your actual application with reference letters, which in many cases seem to require physical document sending..

 

[Dral]

I think I would only email ahead of time if you have a legitimate question that a coordinator couldn't answer. Otherwise just send in your app in a timely manner.

I started by writing the program and requirements for each on a separate piece of paper. Then went through each, checking off everything as I placed things in envelopes. Then sent them off. It really helped keep things straight, and it gave me an idea off all the things I needed before I started.

 

[jmw38]

Derm-trained here. Wondering about your thoughts on visiting programs to read out with them. Is it essential? I feel very out of the loop (first time going to ASDP this year, of course since I am R2 derm, small program only has room for so many to go to conferences and unfortunately four of us are dermpath focused.) Our vacation policy is VERY restrictive so I don't even know how much I could do if I wanted to, but I was wondering if anyone had any insight. I am applying everywhere of course!!

 

[dr.weiner]

In general, away rotations aren't necessary, and only one program I know of (Ackerman) routinely has applicants diagnose biopsies around the microscope during interview days (although this was in a relatively stress free, low pressure environment).

I would suggest that you apply broadly and particularly seek out programs where the dermpath dept/fellowship is in dermatology. This process can be a complete crapshoot so cast a wide net.

 

[jmw38]

In general, away rotations aren't necessary, and only one program I know of (Ackerman) routinely has applicants diagnose biopsies around the microscope during interview days (although this was in a relatively stress free, low pressure environment).

I would suggest that you apply broadly and particularly seek out programs where the dermpath dept/fellowship is in dermatology. This process can be a complete crapshoot so cast a wide net.

Thanks for the advice. My anxiety level is through the roof. It's just that three people from my program are applying this year and the other two are already made plans to or have already gone to read out with other programs and it made me feel like a huge slacker. I really want to stay in the area so I may try to finagle some way to sit with a couple of programs in the area if possible, but I think that's all I can swing.

 

[Dral]

The program I'm going to (not Ackerman) also has candidates read on interview day (totally low stress though). I think it's good to do that. The goal is probably two fold: To test interviewer's knowledge/interest in Dermpath and more importantly, to get to know how they are as a person sitting at the scope. That makes sense since faculty will be spending the next year (or two, depending) sitting at the scope with potential fellows on a daily basis.

I tried to get an away set up when I was interviewing, but it didn't work out. It ended up not being a problem. It can definitely help, but as dr. weiner mentioned, not totally necessary. If you have a good app, you should get interviews. Then, just know your dermpath and be personable at the interview. People want to know you'll get work done at the scope, but they also want to enjoy the time as well!

 

[DermViser]

Derm-trained here. Wondering about your thoughts on visiting programs to read out with them. Is it essential? I feel very out of the loop (first time going to ASDP this year, of course since I am R2 derm, small program only has room for so many to go to conferences and unfortunately four of us are dermpath focused.) Our vacation policy is VERY restrictive so I don't even know how much I could do if I wanted to, but I was wondering if anyone had any insight. I am applying everywhere of course!!

Are you using Dermpath as a supplement to your Derm practice, or do you solely want to do Dermpath?

 

[NYnow]

Washington University, MO - Filled.

I guess internal candidate.. (https://dermpath.wustl.edu/fellowship). Meh, one less place to apply. I actually like it that they say it upfront.

 

[NYnow]

Does anyone know if the following programs actually have a fellowship opening for 2016-17? I coudn't find even a decent link for these programs.

Tufts Medical Center Program, Newton, MA
Mount Sinai School of Medicine Program, New York, NY
Roger Williams Medical Center Program, Providence, RI
UMDNJ - New Jersey Medical School, NJ.
Loyola University Program, Hines, IL
Jackson Memorial Hospital/Jackson Health System Program, Miami, FL.

 

[Dral]

The Tufts fellowship is through Miraca. I remember it being tough to find contact information for that one.

Mt Sinai is a two year program. This is the current fellow's second year. The fellow starting in 2015 will obviously be continuing on into 2016.

I'm not sure about the others.

 

[jmw38]

Are you using Dermpath as a supplement to your Derm practice, or do you solely want to do Dermpath?

I intend to practice both. Most (actually all) dermatology-trained dermatopathologists I know personally also see patients, although I'm sure this isn't the rule.

 

[DermViser]

I intend to practice both. Most (actually all) dermatology-trained dermatopathologists I know personally also see patients, although I'm sure this isn't the rule.

Ah, ok. Didn't know how this worked in a real practice in which you're always seeing patients or whether there is some conflict-of-interest (with respect to reimbursement) for reading the dermpath slides on a patient you yourself have evaluated (what would be considered self-referral in other specialties).

 

[1_or_2_questions_tops.]

Hey,

Thanks for starting a thread on dermpath, I haven't used SDN since pre-med so forgive me if I asked already answered questions.

I am planning on applying soon and have very limited resources at my unknown institution. I have some questions, I can't be the only one thinking it.

#1: I notice some applications ask questions that should be in the CV and, at the same time, provide limited space for a response (example: all current and past research projects/presentations in 2-3 lines). I'm not trying to insult any one program, pretty much all of them do this. Is it acceptable to say "Please see resume" or is that frowned upon. Is there a better way of putting it?

#2: Are we allowed to alter applications (downloading to word, later saving as pdf) to help with typing? Do most people write everything by hand? I don't want my handwriting, or dropping a bagel bite on the application, to factor into all of this.

#3 What exactly are academic honors/awards? Just my take but, beyond AOA, I didn't have much opportunity in med school and awards are rare to non-existent in residency. I just want to make sure I'm not missing the question. Is it weak to put "nominee for AOA", or "nominee for an award given to one of 800 people at a huge convention?".

Good luck and thank you in advance for any advice!

 

[Dral]

Hey,

Thanks for starting a thread on dermpath, I haven't used SDN since pre-med so forgive me if I asked already answered questions.

I am planning on applying soon and have very limited resources at my unknown institution. I have some questions, I can't be the only one thinking it.

#1: I notice some applications ask questions that should be in the CV and, at the same time, provide limited space for a response (example: all current and past research projects/presentations in 2-3 lines). I'm not trying to insult any one program, pretty much all of them do this. Is it acceptable to say "Please see resume" or is that frowned upon. Is there a better way of putting it?

#2: Are we allowed to alter applications (downloading to word, later saving as pdf) to help with typing? Do most people write everything by hand? I don't want my handwriting, or dropping a bagel bite on the application, to factor into all of this.

#3 What exactly are academic honors/awards? Just my take but, beyond AOA, I didn't have much opportunity in med school and awards are rare to non-existent in residency. I just want to make sure I'm not missing the question. Is it weak to put "nominee for AOA", or "nominee for an award given to one of 800 people at a huge convention?".

Good luck and thank you in advance for any advice!

1. I would list your most important in the room provided. Then as a last sentence: Continued on Resume

2. Take a step back...think less about 'rules' and more about 'What is the best way to transmit this important information to the person who will be interpreting it?". If you can download it, do it. Type if you can. I believe most fellowship directors would rather see a neatly typed application, and it makes the information that much more accessible to them.

3. Many people don't have a ton of academic awards. You can put any grants, prizes for presentations, AOA, Pathology honor society. If you have none, but have been nominated, then put it. If nothing else, it may be a conversation starter at an interview.

Again, don't over think these things. Take a step back and consider big picture. If you don't have any awards, go ahead and put a nomination or two if that's all you have. If you have 50 other awards, don't put the nominations. Don't bother putting a nomination for 'most likely to succeed' from high school (not insinuating you would do this....include it that is...for all I know you are the most successful person from your high school), but an AOA nomination could be appropriate.

 

[1_or_2_questions_tops.]

1. I would list your most important in the room provided. Then as a last sentence: Continued on Resume

2. Take a step back...think less about 'rules' and more about 'What is the best way to transmit this important information to the person who will be interpreting it?". If you can download it, do it. Type if you can. I believe most fellowship directors would rather see a neatly typed application, and it makes the information that much more accessible to them.

3. Many people don't have a ton of academic awards. You can put any grants, prizes for presentations, AOA, Pathology honor society. If you have none, but have been nominated, then put it. If nothing else, it may be a conversation starter at an interview.

Again, don't over think these things. Take a step back and consider big picture. If you don't have any awards, go ahead and put a nomination or two if that's all you have. If you have 50 other awards, don't put the nominations. Don't bother putting a nomination for 'most likely to succeed' from high school (not insinuating you would do this....include it that is...for all I know you are the most successful person from your high school), but an AOA nomination could be appropriate.

Thank you Dral! I just discovered the type writing feature of adobe, which makes it a lot easier. My only high school award was eating an ultimate cheeseburger (jack-n-box) in under one minute. I guess I'll remove it from applications.

 

[NYnow]

Heard on the grapewine:
Washington University, MO - Filled
UT Memphis, TN - Filled
MUSC, SC - Filled

There are about 10 programs where I have enquired and got no reply, so I am guessing they are either not participating or have internal candidate in mind.. That leaves about 40 programs still in play. What do people do if they don't get a reply regarding spots, availability, how to apply etc? Just go ahead and send in application?

 

[Dral]

Easy. Either you apply and possibly get an interview, or don't apply and know you won't get an interview.

 

[NYnow]

Thanks! It is just that it is time-consuming to write a personalized cover letter, make sure addresses and names are correct, and current, and so on. But you are right. I still wonder if it reflects on how uninterested or disorganized the program is not to make some basic information available, at least in a canned format when contacted.

 

[Dral]

That could be true, but based on how competitive it is, you have to maximize your chances in all ways possible.

 

[1_or_2_questions_tops.]

Since DP is highly competitive with limited spots, it's obvious to simultaneously apply for other fellowships. I notice that Mayo prohibits applying to more than one fellowship. Is it a bad idea to apply for both derm and some other fellowship at the same institution?

 

[NYnow]

I think so (that is, bad idea). On the other hand, dermpath is probably best for applying to 2 specialties at the same time, because majority of dermpath fellowships are handled by derm dept not path. So chances of info sharing and being found out are lower.. yet always there. Unless you are derm track, in which case, apply twice where path manages dermpath!

 

[Dral]

I would just be cautious about doing that. You want to maximize chances of landing dermpath, but you want to at least have some fellowship I guess.

It's sorta different for Derm. The majority don't fellow in anything. Those who do fellow, usually chose their interest and only go with that. Our only official fellowships are dermpath, peds, and mohs/procedural, so people tend to gravitate to just one of those if they fellow at all.

If a Derm isn't interested in one of those things, they just start working right away since further training is so often not needed. I get anywhere from 3 to 5 emails a week about open Derm clinical positions....just delete them since I'm fellowship bound next year.

 

[NYnow]

Does anyone have idea of inside working of Geisinger program these days? Tammie Ferringer is active in meeting circuits but not sure if it is anything like when Dr Elston was there. Danville, PA is a little town of 5K population, so only an outstanding program should attract a lot of candidates. Your thoughts, experience? Couldn't make the application deadline 8/15 as my recommedation letters would not have been ready, but thinking of applying anyways.

 

[cylindroma]

Here it goes again!

I have listed the programs and (available spots). Number of spots are likely correct in most cases as I have taken them from their respective websites, but in some cases they didn't mention it and so I guesstimated it from various sources. You are welcome to edit them if you have reliable information.

Basically, at this point, I would like to invite senior members to discuss ins and outs of the programs they are familiar with. Any changes in leadership, status, reputation or program philosophy. A little later, candidates can start posting about interviews and offers, and whatever is on their mind! Let us have some fun.

State ____ City____ Program_________ (Spots)
AL ____ Birmingham ____ University of Alabama ___ (1)
AR ____ Little Rock ____ University of Arkansas ___ (1)
CA ____ Los Angeles ____ UCLA Medical Center ___ (2) (2 years)
CA ____ San Francisco ____ UCSF ___ (1) (2 years)
CA ____ Stanford ____ Stanford University ___ (2) (2 years)
CO ____ Aurora ____ University of Colorado ___ (2)
CT ____ New Haven ____ Yale-New Haven Medical Center ___ (1) (2 years)
FL ____ Gainesville ____ University of Florida ___ (1)
FL ____ Miami ____ Jackson Memorial Hospital ___ (2) (closed?)
FL ____ Tampa ____ University of South Florida Morsani ___ (1)
GA ____ Atlanta ____ Emory University ___ (1)
IL ____ Chicago ____ Northwestern University ___ (1) (2 years)
IL ____ Chicago ____ University of Chicago ___ (2)
IL ____ Hines ____ Loyola University ___ (1) (closed?)
IN ____ Indianapolis ____ Indiana University ___ (1)
LA ____ New Orleans ____ Tulane University ___ (1)
MA ____ Boston ____ Beth Israel/Harvard Medical School ___ (3)
MA ____ Boston ____ Boston University Medical Center ___ (1)
MA ____ Newton ____ Tufts Medical Center ___ (2)
MA ____ Worcester ____ University of Massachusetts ___ (1)
MD ____ Bethesda ____ National Capital Consortium ___ (2) (for military only)
MI ____ Ann Arbor ____ University of Michigan ___ (1)
MN ____ Rochester ____ Mayo Clinic (Rochester) ___ (2)
MO ____ St Louis ____ St Louis University School of Medicine ___ (2)
MO ____ St Louis ____ Washington University ___ (1)
NC ____ Durham ____ Duke University Hospital ___ (1)
NC ____ Winston-Salem ____ Wake Forest University ___ (1)
NH ____ Lebanon ____ Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center ___ (1)
NY ____ Bronx ____ Albert Einstein College of Medicine ___ (2)
NY ____ New York ____ Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center ___ (2)
NY ____ New York ____ Mount Sinai School of Medicine ___ (1)
NY ____ New York ____ New York University School of Medicine ___ (1)
NY ____ New York ____ SUNY Health Science Center at Brooklyn ___ (7)
OH ____ Cincinnati ____ University of Cincinnati ___ (2) (Derm candidates only)
OH ____ Cleveland ____ Cleveland Clinic Foundation ___ (1)
OH ____ Columbus ____ Ohio State University Hospital ___ (1)
PA ____ Danville ____ Geisinger Health System ___ (2)
PA ____ Hershey ____ Penn State University/Milton S Hershey ___ (1)
PA ____ Philadelphia ____ Drexel University College of Medicine ___ (1) (closed?)
PA ____ Philadelphia ____ Thomas Jefferson University ___ (1) (closed?)
PA ____ Philadelphia ____ University of Pennsylvania ___ (2)
PA ____ Pittsburgh ____ UPMC Medical Education ___ (2)
RI ____ Providence ____ Roger Williams Medical Center ___ (1) (closed?)
SC ____ Charleston ____ Medical University of South Carolina ___ (1)
TN ____ Memphis ____ University of Tennessee ___ (1) (worthless - always an internal candidate)
TX ____ Dallas ____ ProPath ___ (2)
TX ____ Dallas ____ Cockerell Dermpath ___ (2)
TX ____ Galveston ____ University of Texas Medical Branch ___ (2)
TX ____ Houston ____ Baylor College of Medicine ___ (1)
TX ____ Houston ____ M D Anderson Cancer Center ___ (2) (2 years)
TX ____ Houston ____ University of Texas at Houston ___ (1)
VA ____ Charlottesville ____ University of Virginia ___ (2)
VT ____ Burlington ____ University of Vermont/Fletcher Allen ___ (1)
WA ____ Seattle ____ University of Washington ___ (1)

Hey how do you know the following programs are closed? I applied to some of them and have not heard anything about them being closed? Or do you mean they are already filled?

Roger Williams
Jefferson
U of Miami

I thought Loyola was accepting applications later in the fall.

Does anyone know if the following programs are filled or have a dermpath spot for 2016?
JHU
Mt Sinai

Also has anyone heard ANYTHING about interview invites?? I feel like it's going a lot slower this year, with a lot of programs not even reviewing applications yet or anytime soon...

 

[cylindroma]

Also I can confirm that U of Cincinnati is closed (as in not renewing a fellowship after this year) and MUSC is filled internally.

 

[NYnow]

Hey how do you know the following programs are closed? I applied to some of them and have not heard anything about them being closed? Or do you mean they are already filled?

Roger Williams
Jefferson
U of Miami

I thought Loyola was accepting applications later in the fall.

Does anyone know if the following programs are filled or have a dermpath spot for 2016?
JHU
Mt Sinai

Also has anyone heard ANYTHING about interview invites?? I feel like it's going a lot slower this year, with a lot of programs not even reviewing applications yet or anytime soon...

Well, I just couldn't find information for these programs. If they were taking a fellow (external), they would at least tell us how and where to apply. But I am not sure, hence "?". Some of the information I have derived from a thread in 2013, where they discuss which programs are closing down soon.

I don't know why you think Loyola will accept in the fall. I don't see any such information anywhere.

JHU? Do they even have a fellowship? If so, I don't see it adevertised anywhere. So either they don't have it, or they have internal candidate. I am not sure of current status of at least 1/2 of the programs listed here. Most of them have old webpages with old information. In some cases, program exists but there is no information anywhere; in others, program has closed down, but website lives on. Some PDs have been changed without update. And of all the places I have applied so far, not a single program has cared to confirm the receipt of my application material, let alone telling me about their procedure for selection, when it will take place, how many spots they have, whether they are going to take external candidate or not, etc.

This is utterly ridiculous. When the program directors meet at the ASDP, they should collectively stand up on the podium and apologize to all trainees for this sorry state of affairs in one of the premium branches of higher education and healthcare.

 

[cylindroma]

Well, I just couldn't find information for these programs. If they were taking a fellow (external), they would at least tell us how and where to apply. But I am not sure, hence "?". Some of the information I have derived from a thread in 2013, where they discuss which programs are closing down soon.

I don't know why you think Loyola will accept in the fall. I don't see any such information anywhere.

JHU? Do they even have a fellowship? If so, I don't see it adevertised anywhere. So either they don't have it, or they have internal candidate.

This is utterly ridiculous. When the program directors meet at the ASDP, they should collectively stand up at the podium and apologize to all trainees for this sorry state of affairs in one of the premium branches of higher education and healthcare.

Ok, well I was able to apply to some of those programs but who knows, maybe they just tossed my application if the programs are closed! :/

Yea it's pretty ridiculous. Esp that all these programs are filling internally. I heard of two more today that have internal candidates.

Oh well.

 

[LoaLoa]

This is utterly ridiculous. When the program directors meet at the ASDP, they should collectively stand up on the podium and apologize to all trainees for this sorry state of affairs in one of the premium branches of higher education and healthcare.

Part of the problem (in my opinion) with dermpath is the widely held attitude that it is somehow a "premium" career choice. Many fellowship directors hold this view, and as a result of their exalted position they feel they don't owe trainees anything and are happy with treating them in a shameful manner during the application process. Many trainees also hold this view, and, as a result, are willing to wade through a hip-deep river of s*** to get a chance to look at skin biopsies.

All this is true, despite the fact that at the moment the job market for pathology-trained dermatopathologists is horrendous. Many new pathology-trained dermatopathologists will end up working for dermatologists. For those who have a genuine academic interest in the specialty, I say go for it, good luck, and best wishes. For those who want to do dermpath because it is "elite" and because you can make a lot of money, I'd urge you to be very careful with your decision.

 

[Tissue issue]

Part of the problem (in my opinion) with dermpath is the widely held attitude that it is somehow a "premium" career choice. Many fellowship directors hold this view, and as a result of their exalted position they feel they don't owe trainees anything and are happy with treating them in a shameful manner during the application process. Many trainees also hold this view, and, as a result, are willing to wade through a hip-deep river of s*** to get a chance to look at skin biopsies.

All this is true, despite the fact that at the moment the job market for pathology-trained dermatopathologists is horrendous. Many new pathology-trained dermatopathologists will end up working for dermatologists. For those who have a genuine academic interest in the specialty, I say go for it, good luck, and best wishes. For those who want to do dermpath because it is "elite" and because you can make a lot of money, I'd urge you to be very careful with your decision.

Very well stated LoaLoa.

 

[Dral]

I can't really argue with anything LoaLoa said. However, I have this opinion:

While it is nice that program directors could make it as easy as possible for applicants, think about how this worked before the age of the internet. www.google.com does not entitle us to instant information. Many spots are filled internally, yes. However, at some point in our lives, we have to be proactive and figure out things for ourselves. As Medical doctors, we are used to the application process of things (while admittedly not easy), which involves AMCAS, VSAS, ERAS, NRMP, SF match, etc. However, those don't exist for jobs. I'm sure many pathologists on this forum can attest to the amount of leg work it takes to find out about open path jobs.

Yes, fellowship isn't technically an attending job, but it's about as close as it gets. Putting in the initiative to find out about a program that may not otherwise be advertised as much can actually put you at an advantage.

For instance, an interviewee at my residency program was talking to me about how Hopkins was starting up a new fellowship (since Dr. Hopkins had since moved to Philly/Ackerman). I found the Dermatology program coordinator and either called her or emailed her. She put me in contact with the correct person who told me where to send my application materials. There. done. I ended up withdrawing my app since I was offered a position elsewhere, but I doubt that as many people applied for the Hopkins fellowship since it isn't openly advertised.

Anyway, I'm assuming they may be accepting this year as well. Again, find a contact at Hopkins and you'll eventually find the right person.

As I said before, Jefferson is now somewhat related to Ackerman/Elston. The start 2015 year is 2 fellows in NYC at Ackerman, one Ackerman sponsored fellow at Jefferson, and one Jefferson sponsored fellow (I'm not 100% on that, but I believe it's correct). Dr. Lee still interviewed for the Jefferson spots (nice guy). Those spots are of course not set in stone, since as addressed earlier, Ackerman has spots to work with depending on the year. I'm not completely sure how those Jefferson spots will work tbh.

Mt. Sinai program is 2 years. The current fellow is in his second year (I THINK there is only one fellow at a time. I can easily find out in a week or two). Thus there is a new fellow to start in 2015 who will be done in2017, so if that is the only fellow, there will be no position starting 2016. But again, find the Sinai coordinator to path/derm and they will put you in contact with the correct person to verify. I spoke with this person on the phone last year when I was applying...it's not difficult.

I know a past RW derm resident and can ask her if she knows about the current status of their fellowship.

I'm not sure about Miami.

Geisinger is an excellent program. I interviewed there last year. They have 2 derm trained and 2 path trained faculty. They are I believe hiring another full time path trained member. All four current faculty are some of the nicest people I've met. There is a curriculum in place there for the dermpath fellows. It's so organized and orderly (love it). I believe they are constructing a new building to house path to be finished sometime in 2015. They don't have a path residency now, so the curriculum for derm trained people is specifically designed for the fellowship...not just random sitting in on sign outs. For path trained residents, they have an awesome derm residency program/clinics...again, very well organized as far as I can tell. I have learned from Dr. Elston, and it seems to me that his style is still present in the Geisinger program...not surprising since I think he and Dr. Ferringer developed the program together/co-authored the book. Anyway, great program. I think they like to interview/fill on the early side, but can't hurt to still apply

 

[NYnow]

Thanks as always Dral! You are one helpful soul. Although I can't say I agree with your "struggle makes you stronger" viewpoint.

We have come this far in our field; we don't need to prove our problem-solving capability by finding out who where and how of fellowship programs. We show our initiative for dermpath by attending didactics, studying, doing research, going to meetings, and publishing, not by Donald trump's Apprentice type mad chases and cold calls and catching the right person on telephone at right time. Agreed that these talents may come handy when job-searching, but fellowship is no job, it is supposed to be a structured training in dermatopathology, not in figuring out physical addresses and existance of programs. That is just one lame and incredibly um..unjustified argument if any PD tries to make it, I will cut you a slack though .. Also agreed that if I am willing to make the telephone calls, I am at an advantage, but I don't want (and shouldn't be given) such an advantage over someone who is better than me in every other regard, but does not have time to make these incredibly stupid calls because he/she is busy with studies, work, rotations, family matters etc.

Boarded specialty programs should not be excused of their responsibility to advertise their existence and make adequate and timely information availalble to everyone interested.

BTW, where is the outspoken Zao of yester-years now that he is a PD?

 

[TricheMooMoo]

Does anyone have idea of inside working of Geisinger program these days? Tammie Ferringer is active in meeting circuits but not sure if it is anything like when Dr Elston was there. Danville, PA is a little town of 5K population, so only an outstanding program should attract a lot of candidates. Your thoughts, experience? Couldn't make the application deadline 8/15 as my recommedation letters would not have been ready, but thinking of applying anyways.

Not sure about the program since Dr. Elston left, but apparently they have started to send out invites (third hand info so not sure if true). This was a wakeup call for me to send my apps out this weekend. Hopefully I am not too late!

Any updates on other programs? Maybe NYnow can make a new list with "Sent Invites", "Filled", etc similar to previous years.

 

[NYnow]

By popular demand (n=1)

Sent invites:
Geisinger, PA

Filled:
Washington University, MO.
UT Memphis, TN.
MUSC, SC.
Loyola, IL.

Programs closed:
Rutgers/UMDNJ

Cylindroma, what two programs have internal candidates that you have heard of? Lemme know, I can add them as Filled, 3rd hand.

 

[TricheMooMoo]

Applications mailed. I was somewhat conservative as I only applied to 20. People told me to apply everywhere, but I honestly couldn't live in some of these places or would not want to train at some of the programs. I want to be a "well trained" dermatopathologist. I would rather roll the dices and re-apply again next year if needed. What are other peoples strategies/thoughts?

Are people going to the ASDP meeting? I hear some programs interview during that time. I don't know if I should register now ($200, plus flight and room) with the hope of getting an interview or just wait go last minute if needed. My program is not very keen on giving time off for stuff like this .

 

[NYnow]

MooMoo - I don't think they will interview at random at the ASDP meeting. Even for that, you should have applied for the program now and they would have sent you interview invitation to meet at the ASDP.

By the way, I heard that Geisinger even sent out rejection letters! I guess they probably kept 5 derm 5 path and rejected the rest..

ASDP should survey and do the data crunching, but it would be nice if some PD or a person in the know even anonymously posts some data based on their personal experience:
1. How many applications do programs receive on average? (My guess: In the range of 50-100?)
2. How many total interested candidates, for how many spots each year, Derm vs path breakdown? (My guess: *140 candidates, 70 spots, Derm 40% - Path 60%)
3. What percentage of spots eventually go to Derm vs path candidates? (My guess: Derm 60%- Path 40%)

(*There are 600 path and 400 derm residency spots, of that about 8-12% may be interested in pursuing dermpath, so about 100 candidates/year. And about 40 from previous years.
1. Arch Pathol Lab Med. 2009 Sep;133(9):1431-6)

 

[DrDermis]

Sent invites:
Geisinger, PA
Ackerman

Filled:
Washington University, MO.
UT Memphis, TN.
MUSC, SC.
Loyola, IL.

Programs closed:
Rutgers/UMDNJ

----
Can confirm that Ackerman has sent out invites. I was told this that this would be separate from Jefferson. To answer some questions asked earlier, Ackerman has 3 spots this year (not 5) which has been confirmed by program. Miami is accepting applications. Roger Williams apparently does not accept applications until next year (confirmed by current RW resident but not by program)

 

[1_or_2_questions_tops.]

Following up on what I've been told (below).

It seems like half the programs start reviewing applications "late" (October-March). Clearly, there are more than enough qualified applicants but does anyone know why some programs start reviewing applications later than others?

Sent invites:
Geisinger, PA
Ackerman

Filled:
Washington University, MO.
UT Memphis, TN.
MUSC, SC.
Loyola, IL.
Baylor, TX.

Programs closed:
Rutgers/UMDNJ

 

[dp_vector]

Stanford filled.

 

[cylindroma]

Was Baylor filled by an internal candidate? I just received the application 2 weeks ago so that was fast!

It does sound like a lot of places are reviewing applications late. Either that or they have already filled with internal candidates and aren't bothering to tell anyone.

 

[dp_vector]

I think they are filling and not telling people. Sucky business, but what can you expect when there is no match process. It is all very sketchy. Sucks more for the applicants than the programs.

Also heard Colorado has offered interviews...if they haven't filled by now.

 

[pathmaster]

Got my Stanford rejection letter today!

 

[Dral]

Got my Stanford rejection letter today!

Actual old school paper snail mail?

 

[dp_vector]

I guess it is nice that they at least let you know. I am sure most programs don't even bother.