Des Moines University (DMU-COM) Discussion 2015 - 2016

[hsk013]

I think that small town Iowa sites (Clinton, Fort Madison, Mason City, etc.) seem pretty dismal. This is going to sound harsh, but I can't think of much of a reason to go to small town unless you have family there or you're really interested in rural medicine.

You'll hear the argument that you will have more one-on-one time with attendings, but you will get that on non-year long too. And non-year long means that you live in DM.

For those rotation sites you mentioned as awful (small town ones), do you mind sharing why you regard them as awful? Do these sites provide a lesser quality of education? Fewer cases? Are they more preceptor-based than rather than ward-based? Do smaller sites provide lesser connections when it comes to residency placement? Or was it more like you prefer bigger suburbs over rural areas and there is no difference in the quality of education/opportunities?

You also mentioned the instability in the administration. Do you think that could be one of the reasons for some of the awful clinical sites? I also noticed that DMU has 4 specialty medicine departments (ob/gyn, surgery, ped, optho). This seems pretty small compared to other schools specialty medicine department. Do you know whether DMU plans to increase its specialty medicine department in the future? If you want to pursue a specialty that is not listed here, will it be more challenging to pursue or match (perhaps we have less resources and connections)?

Lastly, how important is OPTI? I noticed that DMU's OPTI is almost all family medicine (1 surgery and 1 IM). Do mind explaining how OPTI works? Do we get to rotate at OPTI sites? Will it be easier to match into their residencies compared to students from other schools?

Sorry for the long post and thank you so much for answering!

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[Lil'Sebastian]

For those rotation sites you mentioned as awful (small town ones), do you mind sharing why you regard them as awful? Do these sites provide a lesser quality of education? Fewer cases? Are they more preceptor-based than rather than ward-based? Do smaller sites provide lesser connections when it comes to residency placement? Or was it more like you prefer bigger suburbs over rural areas and there is no difference in the quality of education/opportunities?

I can't personally speak to the quality of the education, but we did get stats on surgeries, ER visits, staffed beds, etc. And at the smaller sites you will see less. Fewer patients = less diversity of pathology. You're less likely to have didactics at smaller hospitals too. My issue is mostly location. If you're into small towns then you will love it.

You also mentioned the instability in the administration. Do you think that could be one of the reasons for some of the awful clinical sites?

Yes. Abrupt dean transition + new clinical affairs staff is bound to have an impact. We lost arguably our best rotation site this last year. Other issues with institutional instability as well.

I also noticed that DMU has 4 specialty medicine departments (ob/gyn, surgery, ped, optho). This seems pretty small compared to other schools specialty medicine department. Do you know whether DMU plans to increase its specialty medicine department in the future?

I wouldn't read much into this. Departmental classifications don't mean much IMO. You'll learn from plenty of great doctors in a big variety of specialties.

If you want to pursue a specialty that is not listed here, will it be more challenging to pursue or match (perhaps we have less resources and connections)?

Possibly, compared to a big MD school with its own hospital. But DMU is pretty big name in the DO world and you'll have plenty of alumni connections.

Lastly, how important is OPTI? I noticed that DMU's OPTI is almost all family medicine (1 surgery and 1 IM). Do mind explaining how OPTI works? Do we get to rotate at OPTI sites? Will it be easier to match into their residencies compared to students from other schools?

You'll have to ask someone else about this.

 

[naed0194]

We just had our "lottery" this last week. HUGE demand for one of the two hospitals in Des Moines (Unity Point and Mercy). Some of the out of state sites were pretty popular this year: e.g. Des Peres Hospital in St. Louis.

Is there huge demand for the MI sites for year long?

 

[FrkyBgStok]

I think that small town Iowa sites (Clinton, Fort Madison, Mason City, etc.) seem pretty dismal.

sure you will see less pathology, less diversity, and fewer patients, but to think it will affect your third year education in any way is overly ambitious. good pathology and diversity are important when you are doing 3 years in a single specialty and not one month. you aren't going to see even 1/15th of a field so who cares if you miss out some pathology.

one of my best friends was in mason city and she was first assist on surgeries, ran codes in the ICU, delivered 10+ babies, was involved in every code/trauma in the ER, intubated, did LPs, and much more. I was in Des Moines last year and didn't do any of that. there is a huge benefit to these small town rotations. but you are right, she completely hated mason city. But she did excellent on her auditions.

that being said, doing rotations in a small town lets you do a ton of cool stuff, but it doesn't teach you how to be a resident. if you are going into a specialty where the hierarchy is an important aspect of residency, this can be a huge disadvantage.

 

[Sai111394]

sure you will see less pathology, less diversity, and fewer patients, but to think it will affect your third year education in any way is overly ambitious. good pathology and diversity are important when you are doing 3 years in a single specialty and not one month. you aren't going to see even 1/15th of a field so who cares if you miss out some pathology.

one of my best friends was in mason city and she was first assist on surgeries, ran codes in the ICU, delivered 10+ babies, was involved in every code/trauma in the ER, intubated, did LPs, and much more. I was in Des Moines last year and didn't do any of that. there is a huge benefit to these small town rotations. but you are right, she completely hated mason city. But she did excellent on her auditions.

that being said, doing rotations in a small town lets you do a ton of cool stuff, but it doesn't teach you how to be a resident. if you are going into a specialty where the hierarchy is an important aspect of residency, this can be a huge disadvantage.

Which specialties would the hierarchy be an important aspect? Isn't it good because she will take what she learned to do extremely well on auditions? I'm also assuming these smaller rotations won't have much didactics, unless the attending assigned daily readings, etc.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Which specialties would the hierarchy be an important aspect? Isn't it good because she will take what she learned to do extremely well on auditions? I'm also assuming these smaller rotations won't have much didactics, unless the attending assigned daily readings, etc.

they don't have as many formal didactics, but many don't. in fact, only residencies have formal didactics, so if you are on IM you may get an IM lecture from the IM residency, but if they don't have psych resident, you won't get formal didactics. so with Mercy which is one of the most popular sites, you get formal didactics in 3 rotations. you get a bunch of informal stuff, but you also get that at small spots. i learned much more from attendings who expected a lot from me but didn't have any formal didactics.

an example where hierarchy is important is like IM. when i was a third year, many of the times the conversation would go, "they are complaining of x and y, this is the exam, these are the labs, this is what i think is going on, and this is what i want to do." most of the time the attending would add suggestions or say "i agree" and we would move on. this is great, however if you go to a residency that expects the presentation to start with HPI, then ROS, then vitals, then PE, then labs, then a formal assessment, then a differential diagnosis, and then a plan addressing each diff dx, you are going to be out of practice. it doesn't teach you how to be a resident. if you are first assist on surgeries and get confident then you go do a surgery audition at certain programs and try to assist, you are going to get completely destroyed.

i liken this to being a premed and looking at the 2nd year curriculum. every premed wants clinical faculty to teach the systems because who better to learn from than the doctors themselves? but every second year who has sat through a fumbled up lecture from a terribly speaking clinician knows that those premeds are naive and some clinicians are terrible at lecturing. When i see 1st and 2nd years say they want to do this or that in 3rd and 4th year because it is better for their education, it makes me smile. i have sat through incredible informal didactics and embarrassingly bad formal didactics.

 

[Sai111394]

they don't have as many formal didactics, but many don't. in fact, only residencies have formal didactics, so if you are on IM you may get an IM lecture from the IM residency, but if they don't have psych resident, you won't get formal didactics. so with Mercy which is one of the most popular sites, you get formal didactics in 3 rotations. you get a bunch of informal stuff, but you also get that at small spots. i learned much more from attendings who expected a lot from me but didn't have any formal didactics.

an example where hierarchy is important is like IM. when i was a third year, many of the times the conversation would go, "they are complaining of x and y, this is the exam, these are the labs, this is what i think is going on, and this is what i want to do." most of the time the attending would add suggestions or say "i agree" and we would move on. this is great, however if you go to a residency that expects the presentation to start with HPI, then ROS, then vitals, then PE, then labs, then a formal assessment, then a differential diagnosis, and then a plan addressing each diff dx, you are going to be out of practice. it doesn't teach you how to be a resident. if you are first assist on surgeries and get confident then you go do a surgery audition at certain programs and try to assist, you are going to get completely destroyed.

i liken this to being a premed and looking at the 2nd year curriculum. every premed wants clinical faculty to teach the systems because who better to learn from than the doctors themselves? but every second year who has sat through a fumbled up lecture from a terribly speaking clinician knows that those premeds are naive and some clinicians are terrible at lecturing. When i see 1st and 2nd years say they want to do this or that in 3rd and 4th year because it is better for their education, it makes me smile. i have sat through incredible informal didactics and embarrassingly bad formal didactics.

Do you feel as though your rotations where there was no residency hierarchy hindered you from doing well during auditions/SubIs or were you able to catch up fairly quickly?

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Do you feel as though your rotations where there was no residency hierarchy hindered you from doing well during auditions/SubIs or were you able to catch up fairly quickly?

I was able to catch up quickly, but that was because I had some clinicians who expected that from me even though there were no residents. And if you ask some clinicians to help with that, they will. But I was out of practice and my first audition I looked like a fool 4th year compared to the third years who had been doing that. But after the week I was fine and it was only for the first audition which I ended up ranking number 6 anyway.

 

[Minnesota Girl]

How much is the deposit to hold your acceptance here? I'm don't mean to be presumptuous but was just wondering if it's steep like at CCOM ($1000)...

 

[nellbrah188]

It's $500 within two weeks of your acceptance, and then another $500 is due May 2nd


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[fingers_crossed2010]

II yesterday. It was a pleasant surprise since I was on the pre-II hold list since last fall sometime. Scheduled for next week. I am very excited and hopeful!

 

[drdopamine]

II yesterday. It was a pleasant surprise since I was on the pre-II hold list since last fall sometime. Scheduled for next week. I am very excited and hopeful!

Good luck! you will do great

 

[mrchicken]

I'm usually just an sdn lurker but I interviewed here yesterday and the experience was too good to not post about it. Hands down I have not seen such a positive, family-like atmosphere at any other school. Regardless of the decision they make on my application, I'm just happy about the whole interview experience and everything I saw at DMU. I saw the previous posts about how great the students, faculty, campus, etc. are and holy cow, they are not kidding. DMU has an incredible community and the happiest, friendliest students I've ever met. If you're unsure about interviewing here or not, just do it. The things you'll see and people you'll talk to are reason enough to go.

 

[BugzBunnyDoc]

any tips or suggestions for someone who will be interviewing here soon?

 

[Cjacks3]

Got an acceptance email yesterday!!! Secondary was received 9/1/15, and was put on hold for an interview until I got an II 2/16/16, and interviewed 2/22. Stats are: OOS, cGPA=3.59, sGPA=3.49, MCAT =30. I absolutely loved the school, and am so happy I decided to go to the interview.
The interview itself is very low-stress, and they seemed to be genuinely interested in getting to know you as a whole person, not just as an applicant. If you make sure you have solid answers to typical interview questions (Why DO? Why DMU? Are you a leader or follower? etc) you should be alright.
I honestly can't stress how nice everyone was throughout the whole process. While waiting for my interview time, I had multiple students offer words of encouragement and advice, and they all seemed happy to be there. The people working in admissions were incredibly enthusiastic, and were very proud of the school. I absolutely recommend taking the time out to interview here, even if you're not sure about the school yet.

 

[DrKildare]

Anyone who interviewed 2/18 heard any news yet?

 

[DrKildare]

Got an acceptance email yesterday!!! Secondary was received 9/1/15, and was put on hold for an interview until I got an II 2/16/16, and interviewed 2/22. Stats are: OOS, cGPA=3.59, sGPA=3.49, MCAT =30. I absolutely loved the school, and am so happy I decided to go to the interview.
The interview itself is very low-stress, and they seemed to be genuinely interested in getting to know you as a whole person, not just as an applicant. If you make sure you have solid answers to typical interview questions (Why DO? Why DMU? Are you a leader or follower? etc) you should be alright.
I honestly can't stress how nice everyone was throughout the whole process. While waiting for my interview time, I had multiple students offer words of encouragement and advice, and they all seemed happy to be there. The people working in admissions were incredibly enthusiastic, and were very proud of the school. I absolutely recommend taking the time out to interview here, even if you're not sure about the school yet.

 

[DrKildare]

Congrats! Didn't think they had interviews on Mondays...

 

[kjean0820]

Does anyone know when the last interview date is? Crossing my fingers I still have a chance to get off the pre II hold!

 

[Rogan]

Does anyone know when the last interview date is? Crossing my fingers I still have a chance to get off the pre II hold!

Kjean, you should give them a call! I completed in September, and was put on hold in December. I sent them an email asking if they had a chance to review my application since December. They called me the next day to tell me that they would take a look. Received an II two days later and interviewed a few days after that. I don't know what they missed the first time but I'm convinced that I threw myself to the front of the list by initiating some form of contact!

 

[Flux10567]

what laptops do incoming 1st year students receive?

 

[Gemi512]

II just now for March 11, see you guys soon!! =))))

 

[BugzBunnyDoc]

Congrats!


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[fatkitty]

what laptops do incoming 1st year students receive?

During my interview, someone asked this and it was some kind of an HP laptop, probably 14 or 15", and probably from the Pavilion line. You are required to pay for it but not everybody uses it on a day to day basis but it's required for tests.

 

[fatkitty]

@FrkyBgStok @Lil'Sebastian @buttfrogs
It seems DMU seems quite primary care oriented and I'm interested in one of the more competitive surgical specialties that students out of DMU rarely match, based off of match lists from previous years. However DMU seems fairly advanced in their surgical curriculum (with the cool simulation lab).
Questions:
1. How well do you think DMU prepares students for surgical rotations/residencies
2. Do you think the low surgical match rate may just be due to the students not wanting to pursue surgery?
3. How popular is Doctor's Hospital in Columbus, OH? I know it's affiliated with OUHCOM as well and is one of the largest osteopathic hospitals.

 

[fatkitty]

what laptops do incoming 1st year students receive?

Check that. According to a current 2nd yr on DMU's facebook page, it's an HP Elitebook 840. 14 inch screen, 1.6 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 240GB SSD

 

[buttfrogs]

Check that. According to a current 2nd yr on DMU's facebook page, it's an HP Elitebook 840. 14 inch screen, 1.6 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 240GB SSD

That's what the 2nd years have. So I would assume that current first years and new students next year will have something similar but newer.

 

[almostnever]

Is there a list somewhere on Pulse with the shot/titer requirements for incoming students?

 

[FrkyBgStok]

@FrkyBgStok @Lil'Sebastian @buttfrogs
It seems DMU seems quite primary care oriented and I'm interested in one of the more competitive surgical specialties that students out of DMU rarely match, based off of match lists from previous years. However DMU seems fairly advanced in their surgical curriculum (with the cool simulation lab).
Questions:
1. How well do you think DMU prepares students for surgical rotations/residencies
2. Do you think the low surgical match rate may just be due to the students not wanting to pursue surgery?
3. How popular is Doctor's Hospital in Columbus, OH? I know it's affiliated with OUHCOM as well and is one of the largest osteopathic hospitals.

1. It prepares you fine. There are some awesome opportunities for surgery prep. No worse than any other schools.
2. Yeah I think that is a good part of it. You say "one of more competitive surgical specialties" makes me think uro, ENT, etc. and those are hard for anyone nationally to match because of the low number of spots. no school has a good number. if you are talking ortho, i have many friends that matched ortho and many that didn't. it is tough match for anyone nationwide and i think dmu sets you up better than most.
3. I don't know because i didn't know we had a site there. Probably the most popular site in ohio and one of the top 5 most popular sites at dmu due to the large number of residencies.

 

[Flux10567]

During my interview, someone asked this and it was some kind of an HP laptop, probably 14 or 15", and probably from the Pavilion line. You are required to pay for it but not everybody uses it on a day to day basis but it's required for tests.

That was included in the tuition correct?

 

[buttfrogs]

That was included in the tuition correct?

Yes.

 

[drdopamine]

I noticed from the last few match lists that only a few students match in NY. Do you guys think this is preference based or that schools in NY aren't as familiar with DMU and their students. Probably both...

I am conflicted between going here and NYIT because I know I will be able to match close to home at NYIT but I like DMU exponentially better and feel I'd do much better there.

Anyone have any advice?

 

[Cornbreaded]

Interviewed on 2/19 and put on alternative list 3/1/16. Anyone know anything about the mobility of this list?

 

[CC1123]

Just got an email from DMU. Got my hopes up for an acceptance but it was just a survey about my interview.

 

[epap]

I noticed from the last few match lists that only a few students match in NY. Do you guys think this is preference based or that schools in NY aren't as familiar with DMU and their students. Probably both...

I am conflicted between going here and NYIT because I know I will be able to match close to home at NYIT but I like DMU exponentially better and feel I'd do much better there.

Anyone have any advice?

I don't know what this means to you but I have asked countless doctors I work with for advice on picking schools. The most common advice I get is to go somewhere that will set you up for residency placement, i.e. location/if you know what area of medicine you want to go into. They all say it's about connections you make in medical school! The second most common is go where it is cheapest haha

 

[DrBones14]

Is there a list somewhere on Pulse with the shot/titer requirements for incoming students?

If you go into student health, thats where the information should be. There is a PDF link on the top right "2016 Health Requirements".

 

[ShowtimeKaner88]

@FrkyBgStok @Lil'Sebastian @buttfrogs
It seems DMU seems quite primary care oriented and I'm interested in one of the more competitive surgical specialties that students out of DMU rarely match, based off of match lists from previous years. However DMU seems fairly advanced in their surgical curriculum (with the cool simulation lab).
Questions:
1. How well do you think DMU prepares students for surgical rotations/residencies
2. Do you think the low surgical match rate may just be due to the students not wanting to pursue surgery?
3. How popular is Doctor's Hospital in Columbus, OH? I know it's affiliated with OUHCOM as well and is one of the largest osteopathic hospitals.

Freaky covered the first two well.

I'll speak to number 3. We lost our spots at Doctors this year and for the foreseeable future. While some people might view that as an administration misstep, it wasn't at all their fault and they, nor DMU, did anything wrong to lose the spots. OUHCOM opened a second campus in conjunction with Cleveland Clinic which added 50 students that they need clinical rotation spots for. In addition, OUHCOM lost a couple rotation sites within Ohio because they no longer wanted to have a medical education program. We had an overall decrease in spots in Ohio, because they are going to give preference to their in-state medical students, which should be expected considering they are heavy into keeping physicians in Ohio.

If you have more questions feel free to ask.

 

[Flux10567]

Freaky covered the first two well.

I'll speak to number 3. We lost our spots at Doctors this year and for the foreseeable future. While some people might view that as an administration misstep, it wasn't at all their fault and they, nor DMU, did anything wrong to lose the spots. OUHCOM opened a second campus in conjunction with Cleveland Clinic which added 50 students that they need clinical rotation spots for. In addition, OUHCOM lost a couple rotation sites within Ohio because they no longer wanted to have a medical education program. We had an overall decrease in spots in Ohio, because they are going to give preference to their in-state medical students, which should be expected considering they are heavy into keeping physicians in Ohio.

If you have more questions feel free to ask.

So has DMU added more rotations sites elsewhere?
The clinical rotations listed on the website were updated in August 2014 and I was wondering which ones were added/lost.
thanks!

 

[ShowtimeKaner88]

So has DMU added more rotations sites elsewhere?
The clinical rotations listed on the website were updated in August 2014 and I was wondering which ones were added/lost.
thanks!

Yes they have added rotations sites elsewhere. The Florida site that may or may not still be on that list is gone. Multiple sites were added in Wisconsin, Texas, and Minnesota this year.

 

[fatkitty]

I remember during my interview that the interim dean (awesome dude with a sweet bow tie) mentioned that they were likely going to lose the Florida site when asked about rotation sites but didn't go into details.

 

[CC1123]

Yes they have added rotations sites elsewhere. The Florida site that may or may not still be on that list is gone. Multiple sites were added in Wisconsin, Texas, and Minnesota this year.

Do you know where in Wisconsin? and how many?

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[CC1123]

Anyone know the wait time for decisions for those that interviewed the week of February 22nd?

I interviewed that thursday and I'm still waiting. They said 2 weeks so hopefully soon!

 

[nellbrah188]

For the past several weeks, people who interviewed on Thursday were accepted 8 days later on the following Friday. I think waitlists/rejections go out a few days after that


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[CC1123]

That's interesting. Fingers crossed for tomorrow

 

[ShowtimeKaner88]

I remember during my interview that the interim dean (awesome dude with a sweet bow tie) mentioned that they were likely going to lose the Florida site when asked about rotation sites but didn't go into details.

Florida wasn't "lost". It got too many bad reviews from students, so they sought better clinical education elsewhere.

Do you know where in Wisconsin? and how many?

Around the Milwaukee area and a couple more spots Northeastern-ish. Prefer to not give out specific details

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[Dr.Pilot]

I also got accepted a few minutes ago! So happy to have heard back so quickly! I interviewed last Friday and had a phenomenal experience at the school. I've got a few other acceptances so I have a very difficult decision to make!

 

[BugzBunnyDoc]

ACCEPTED!
Interviewed on Monday.. very fast turnaround. Couldn't be happier

 

[CC1123]

Accepted on Friday as well