Did premed courses, working now 1.5 years, looking to go back to med school

[SKooT1027]

I'm new to the forum, so a really brief history of myself:
I'm 23. Graduated in May 07 with a major in Mathematics and a minor in Chemistry. I had a 3.5 overall gpa, 3.8 major (math) gpa. I don't know my BCMP gpa. Since then I have been working in finance at a hedge fund. I started the premed path late (soph year), so that, mixed with course conflicts from my University, had me overloaded on courses my entire undergrad career - thus why I did not take the MCATs immediately. I didn't want to rush them, and I know I want/need to do well on them.

Anyway, I've been working since graduation because knowing how I am, if I didn't experience the business world I would always wonder if I made a mistake. It seemed easier to do this first, than put in all the years of medicine to then possibly change my mind. I have a good job, and the pay is nothing to complain about. However, the experience proved to me exactly what I was hoping it would prove - that I do not want to spend my life behind a desk. The money isn't everything. The lack of constant learning and challenge bores me. Therefore, I don't want to delay Medical School any longer.

I am looking for some advice from people who might have gone through the same thing I am going through now. Obviously not everything from my courses is as fresh in my head as if I was still in school. This worries me. My school is more known for business and nursing than the hard sciences, so the more general courses (Gen Bio, Inorganic Chem and Orgo) really were not taught as well as I wished they were. I don't plan to let any of that stop me. If I've learned one thing about myself (especially overcoming some personal problems and illnesses) it's that I have never let myself fail at anything I set my mind to. It may sound cocky, or even untrue, but it's a fact. I don't let myself fail, and I don't plan to start now.

So, is there any advice you can give me? Can you recommend some books that are better than others for MCAT prep? I may consider one of the kaplan (or similar) courses, but I want to start on my own. Also, I work pretty long days, and have to stay late at times, so those will not fit my schedule perfectly right now. How do you recommend I go about refreshing myself on my old courses? And finally, I assume recommendations are important to the application process. It has been a few years since school, and not all of my professors are still there. What is the recommended approach?

Also, it is practical to attempt to get into Med school starting summer of 2010? With the MCATs being offered more frequently, I would think it is more likely than it used to be, but am I cutting it too close?

Thanks in advance, and I look forward to all of your advice.

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[dw2158]

as i understand it, studying on your own --> get exam krackers. taking a course --> kaplan. i sort of mixed EK and kaplan materials and had pretty satisfying results.

if your pre-reqs are done already then i think applying a year from now is a fine idea. your GPA sounds okay... although you didn't saying what your BCPM was. i assume it's pretty good since you were a math major. take this coming year (feb 09-feb 10) to study for and take the MCAT, gather your letters of recommendation, and generally prepare yourself for this process.

i just realized though... you never mentioned ECs. research? clinical experience? community service? those may also be important things to work on before you apply.

ETA: don't worry about "refreshing yourself in your old courses." if you get MCAT-specific materials, you will re-learn what you need.

 

[atomi]

The lack of constant learning and challenge bores me.

I think you might find more of this in engineering than you would in medicine. With a math degree, you could probably get an MSEE in 2-3 years.

For MCAT studying, the EK books and audio osmosis are all you need. Don't waste your money and time on a prep course.

 

[SKooT1027]

as i understand it, studying on your own --> get exam krackers. taking a course --> kaplan. i sort of mixed EK and kaplan materials and had pretty satisfying results.

if your pre-reqs are done already then i think applying a year from now is a fine idea. your GPA sounds okay... although you didn't saying what your BCPM was. i assume it's pretty good since you were a math major. take this coming year (feb 09-feb 10) to study for and take the MCAT, gather your letters of recommendation, and generally prepare yourself for this process.

i just realized though... you never mentioned ECs. research? clinical experience? community service? those may also be important things to work on before you apply.

ETA: don't worry about "refreshing yourself in your old courses." if you get MCAT-specific materials, you will re-learn what you need.

Great thanks! I'll look into getting some EK stuff asap.

I'll have to go look at my transcript to determine my BCMP. It wasnt bad, I know that. Orgo was really what hurt me the most, which I know is bad . I really did/do understand most of it, and did well in class and on work, but the way the exams were constructed I lost a little bit on a lot, which added up.

ECs is my other weak point. I did one semester preping/doing a research associated program with my school. I got through all of that, but then it didn't have funding for the next semester. By the time it got it again, it was my senior year and I had course conflicts and could not do it. Do you have any ideas for good EC I could do now? I'm out of the house M-F like 730am-730pm for work, sometimes later. I have a lot of volunteer experience, but not medically related - more volunteering with my university.

Do schools still look for academic letters of recommendation after this period of time, or would I be getting letters from my current boss, etc?

 

[SKooT1027]

I think you might find more of this in engineering than you would in medicine. With a math degree, you could probably get an MSEE in 2-3 years.

For MCAT studying, the EK books and audio osmosis are all you need. Don't waste your money and time on a prep course.

I started engineering when I came in. It would have been the easy path for me, and I do not have interest in the field. Business is much more interesting to me of the two, but still doesn't touch my desire for medicine. I appreciate the recommendation, but I know that is not something I wish to persue.

I'll look into the KE and audio osmosis. Thank!!


edit: Also, if I look to do Med School starting Summer 2010, when would be the ideal/latest time I should take the MCATs? I would like to give myself time to take it a 2nd time shortly after the first should I need it. I just don't remember the cut off dates anymore. And when do schools usually start accepting applications?

 

[dw2158]

Great thanks! I'll look into getting some EK stuff asap.

I'll have to go look at my transcript to determine my BCMP. It wasnt bad, I know that. Orgo was really what hurt me the most, which I know is bad . I really did/do understand most of it, and did well in class and on work, but the way the exams were constructed I lost a little bit on a lot, which added up.

ECs is my other weak point. I did one semester preping/doing a research associated program with my school. I got through all of that, but then it didn't have funding for the next semester. By the time it got it again, it was my senior year and I had course conflicts and could not do it. Do you have any ideas for good EC I could do now? I'm out of the house M-F like 730am-730pm for work, sometimes later. I have a lot of volunteer experience, but not medically related - more volunteering with my university.

Do schools still look for academic letters of recommendation after this period of time, or would I be getting letters from my current boss, etc?

believe me, you're not the only one to have done poorly in orgo. there a lots of applicants for whom that is a weak point.

i feel you on the busy thing (not explaining now... see past posts). if you've got a lot of volunteering experience, maybe try shadowing a bit? find a physician who's on call on the weekends. or volunteer in a hospital. just devoting like 3-4 hours one day each week (saturday or sunday for you, obviously) over the course of the next however many months will go a LONG way towards improving your application.

oh and yes, you still need academic LORs. you really JUST finished college; it shouldn't be too hard to go back and ask professors. does your school have a pre-med adviser? i'd go there with questions as well. if for no other reason than to get yourself on their radar screen so they know you're thinking about applying.

 

[dw2158]

edit: Also, if I look to do Med School starting Summer 2010, when would be the ideal/latest time I should take the MCATs? I would like to give myself time to take it a 2nd time shortly after the first should I need it. I just don't remember the cut off dates anymore. And when do schools usually start accepting applications?

wait, i thought you were saying you wanted to start applying in 2010. i wouldn't recommend this, in your case. to start school in summer/fall 2010, you'd have to start working on your apps very soon so you can send things out this summer (2009).

 

[SKooT1027]

wait, i thought you were saying you wanted to start applying in 2010. i wouldn't recommend this, in your case. to start school in summer/fall 2010, you'd have to start working on your apps very soon so you can send things out this summer (2009).

Oh really? I didn't realize it would be that early. I was thinking I would have almost a year to get it all out (say maybe need it out by end of calendar year 09). If that's the case, I can wait another year. Id rather do well and be another year behind than try to rush it and regret it. Plus, to be honest, an extra year of making a salary will not hurt. Anything I can get now to start saving/investing and pay down already existing loans is fine.

 

[rjf]

Oh really? I didn't realize it would be that early. I was thinking I would have almost a year to get it all out (say maybe need it out by end of calendar year 09). If that's the case, I can wait another year. Id rather do well and be another year behind than try to rush it and regret it. Plus, to be honest, an extra year of making a salary will not hurt. Anything I can get now to start saving/investing and pay down already existing loans is fine.

I have a very similar background to yours...except I was in the teaching profession. I have been accepted to several schools so you can definitely do it!

I think you would be wise to wait another year. To get in to medical school, you need the grades, good mcat, strong letters of recommendation, clinical experience, and strong ECs. Right now you may be lacking on your letters and clinical experience. I wouldn't worry about your research unless you want to get into a top 15 school and the opportunity presents itself. Your story is actually very good and admins will look favorably on the path that has led you to medicine...I say that because they seemed to like mine. You are different than most apps, which is great. The math background is great too. Your GPA is only average but there isn't much you can do about that unless you have a class or two you can retake (Ds or Fs). However, you need some clinical experience (and a strong MCAT) to really top off your application. This is not what you want to hear, but if I were you I would take a lower(?) paying job at a clinic/hospital. If nothing else, go to part-time and shadow as many physicians as you can...and I mean several if you want to have a meaningful clinical experience...just a couple days of shadowing (in my opinion) is not meaningful. Continue to volunteer and try to get some leadership roles while doing so if possible. Also, while shadowing, try to find one doctor that you get along with very well and continue to work with them. Hopefully, you can get a letter from him/her...a letter from a physician is always a good thing. If I think of something else I will let you know...Good Luck!!

 

[SKooT1027]

I have a very similar background to yours...except I was in the teaching profession. I have been accepted to several schools so you can definitely do it!

I think you would be wise to wait another year. To get in to medical school, you need the grades, good mcat, strong letters of recommendation, clinical experience, and strong ECs. Right now you may be lacking on your letters and clinical experience. I wouldn't worry about your research unless you want to get into a top 15 school and the opportunity presents itself. Your story is actually very good and admins will look favorably on the path that has led you to medicine...I say that because they seemed to like mine. You are different than most apps, which is great. The math background is great too. Your GPA is only average but there isn't much you can do about that unless you have a class or two you can retake (Ds or Fs). However, you need some clinical experience (and a strong MCAT) to really top off your application. This is not what you want to hear, but if I were you I would take a lower(?) paying job at a clinic/hospital. If nothing else, go to part-time and shadow as many physicians as you can...and I mean several if you want to have a meaningful clinical experience...just a couple days of shadowing (in my opinion) is not meaningful. Continue to volunteer and try to get some leadership roles while doing so if possible. Also, while shadowing, try to find one doctor that you get along with very well and continue to work with them. Hopefully, you can get a letter from him/her...a letter from a physician is always a good thing. If I think of something else I will let you know...Good Luck!!

Congrats on your acceptance and thx for the post! I don't have any D's or F's, so retaking is not an option. I know a 3.5 isn't stellar, but I don't think it's bad either. It's not from an Ivy league school, but I would consider it a good school.

As for changing professions, there are a few reasons why I don't want to do that. Firstly, especially right now, finding jobs is not easy. Also, I don't want to blend in by working a low pay job at a hospital. I think I will benefit more from staying in business/finance, especially given the current economic times, and show that I can strive in even down times. It will also give me more time to get a better feel about this current path, as well as reinforce the fact that (assuming it doesnt change) really is not for me and pushes me farther toward medicine. Finally, financially it makes no sense to leave. I have something like $50k in undergrad debt still which I'm hoping to pay down, I pay my way for everything, I need to start saving for the future, and I help my family financially at times. I guess last of all might be the more selfish aspect that it would just be foolish to give up what I currently earn, but that's really the last of the reasons.

I would rather find time on top of what I do to volunteer. I don't really just want to work in a hospital cleaning bedpans - mostly b/c that really doesn't give a feel for the medical end. So i will have to see what might be available, and how I might be able to arrange some kind of shadowing. I don't mind being busy - I'm use to it. My life has always had me constantly running from one thing to the next with little time to just sit down and relax. I actually do better that way.

What type of volunteer and clinical positions are redily available for premeds? And any recommendations on how to go about getting them?

 

[dw2158]

What type of volunteer and clinical positions are redily available for premeds? And any recommendations on how to go about getting them?

i don't know what kind of hospitals are nearby for you, but i think their websites are a good place to start. many big-city hospitals will have volunteer apps available for download. or at least they'll have the volunteer contact person. as far as these jobs, well... you'll probably be doing some food delivering and perhaps even bedpan scrubbing. i think that's why rjf mentioned finding a paying job that includes clinical exposure-- those interactions will probably be more meaningful. i know mine have been! granted, everything you said about keeping your current job makes perfect sense. so if you're really invested in medicine, you may just have to jump through the hospital-volunteering hoop. it will be worth it.

 

[SKooT1027]

i don't know what kind of hospitals are nearby for you, but i think their websites are a good place to start. many big-city hospitals will have volunteer apps available for download. or at least they'll have the volunteer contact person. as far as these jobs, well... you'll probably be doing some food delivering and perhaps even bedpan scrubbing. i think that's why rjf mentioned finding a paying job that includes clinical exposure-- those interactions will probably be more meaningful. i know mine have been! granted, everything you said about keeping your current job makes perfect sense. so if you're really invested in medicine, you may just have to jump through the hospital-volunteering hoop. it will be worth it.

Yale is the closest BIG hospital, but is 30 minutes away w/o traffic (at least). There are a decent amount of smaller ones as well which are much closer. I'll check out some of their websites and see what they have.

For people who have been able to shadow doctors (of any specialty), how did you get invited to do that? I have ideas of specialties I am interested in, but don't want to limit myself just to them. However, I would love the ability to see doctors of different specialties actually working to get a feel for their day to day life.

 

[dw2158]

Yale is the closest BIG hospital, but is 30 minutes away w/o traffic (at least). There are a decent amount of smaller ones as well which are much closer. I'll check out some of their websites and see what they have.

For people who have been able to shadow doctors (of any specialty), how did you get invited to do that? I have ideas of specialties I am interested in, but don't want to limit myself just to them. However, I would love the ability to see doctors of different specialties actually working to get a feel for their day to day life.

i didn't get invited; i asked. mostly i talked to family friends who were doctors (i guess i'm lucky to have connections). but i also got one shadowing gig by calling up the department i was interested in at the hospital and inquiring. this will probably work better at smaller hospitals, so that's good for you.

 

[SKooT1027]

i didn't get invited; i asked. mostly i talked to family friends who were doctors (i guess i'm lucky to have connections). but i also got one shadowing gig by calling up the department i was interested in at the hospital and inquiring. this will probably work better at smaller hospitals, so that's good for you.

Aside from shadowing, which I know is more observing and pretty much nothing else, are there any type of programs that allow a little more patient interaction? I feel like that would both look good and be beneficial just as a feeler for whats to come.

 

[dw2158]

Aside from shadowing, which I know is more observing and pretty much nothing else, are there any type of programs that allow a little more patient interaction? I feel like that would both look good and be beneficial just as a feeler for whats to come.

i almost started to google an answer to your question, and then i realized... you can do that as well as i can. go forth and search; the internet is your friend.

 

[SKooT1027]

i almost started to google an answer to your question, and then i realized... you can do that as well as i can. go forth and search; the internet is your friend.

Haha thx. I'm well aware of google and using it. Real personal experiences aren't as easy to find however, so I didn't think it would hurt to ask on top of searching.

 

[usermike8500]

Volunteer work at a clinic is a great way to gain experience. Also, med schools love volunteer work in exotic "third world" locales. Plus you could gain more exposure there since rules for what a volunteer can and can't do will be less stringent.

 

[LizzyM]

There is plenty to do in Bridgeport! Check with the volunteer offices at B-port Hospital and St. Vincent's and see if you can get an late night /overnight shift on Friday or Saturday.

You'll be assigned low level tasks but if you stay quiet and out of the way you may be permitted to watch things going on in the treatment areas. That can lead to other assignments such as keeping a patient calm while they are waiting to go to the OR, or transmitting messages to family in the waiting area.

After you've been around for a few months, people will get to know you by sight and maybe by name. That's when you have an opening to ask about shadowing.

Because you are in business, you might also want to have a look at what hospital administrators do. There is someone on duty 24/7 in administration and you may cross paths with them in the emergency dept ... that could be something else to look into in terms of shadowing.

Med schools love volunteer work in exotic "third world" locales. Plus you could gain more exposure there since rules for what a volunteer can and can't do will be less stringent.

Actually, we don't although it is more likely to be asked about in an interview because it makes for an interesting and informative exchange (I learn something new about some corner of the globe every time). There is a recent thread on "medical missions" that goes into details about the "harm" of these trips to the local people.