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- Apr 6, 2008
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I'm very disappointed but not totally surprised given my low number of interviews. Any advice from others who have had to re-apply? Was it difficult to interview during your Prelim year?
Neither did I and I had 11 interviews!!
shouldn't the #s be published by now? pretty sure it's not 50% match rate.. thats ridiculousI heard that PMR match rate was just over 50% this year. Hard to believe but given what some students that have pm me for advice on reapplication starting to think true.
One of our younger residents told me this but not sure fits with match outcome data. Anyone know?
I am a DO student.That's crazy. Are you an AMG or IMG?
Where can I see this data?I heard that PMR match rate was just over 50% this year. Hard to believe but given what some students that have pm me for advice on reapplication starting to think true.
One of our younger residents told me this but not sure fits with match outcome data. Anyone know?
Where can I see this data?
People always say 8-10 based on the charting outcomes data. Anecdotally, I'm an average MD applicant in both grades and scores. Ranked 11, matched #3.What is a safe # of PM&R programs to have on your rank list?
http://b83c73bcf0e7ca356c80-e8560f4...Residency-Match-Advance-Data-Tables-FINAL.pdf
Here are charting outcomes. 617 applicants for 287 Advanced PM&R spots (starting PGy-2) (47%) and 444 applicants for 96 Categorical PM&R spots (starting PGY-1) (22 %). All the PEDS-PM&R spots were filled. All the 8 spots for those with advanced degrees were filled.
I do not think anyone can tell me now that PM&R is not getting to be very competitive. Good for PM&R programs, tough for applicants.
Hey guys,
I am sincerely interested in PM&R, and I am writing this so that people do not get scared and run away from PM&R thinking that it recently got overly competitive. I just wanted to point out that the numbers can be very deceptive sometimes. Let me get straight to my point (FYI. Number A/ Number B = Matched / Applied)
For PM&R
2012 ////// 2013 ///// 2014
PGY1 86/373 =23% 103/444 =23% 96/444 =22%
PGY2 277/532 = 52% 293/593 = 50% 297/617 = 48%
I think it is probably somewhat safe to assume that most people who applied for PGY1 also applied to PGY2 positions. I don't see too many people only applying to PGY 1 position, not PGY 2. So it comes down to...
2012 2013 2014
363/532=68% 396/593 =67% 393/617 = 64%
So, it may seem that 64% (2014) drop from 67% (2013) could look somewhat significant. For US grad, in 2013, 204 matched and 242 applied = 85%. But in 2014, 208 matched and 243 applied = 86%. So, for AMGs, both percentage and number wise, we did better than last year.
For psych
2012 their categorical was 1080/2008 = 54%
2014 their categorical was 1291/2363 = 55%
Does this mean psych is more competitive than us? I doubt it.
For radiation oncology
2014 their categorical was 175 / 224 applied = 78% (For US grads, I think 170 matched out of only 190 something applied. That is like almost 90% match rate!!)
Does this mean we should all apply for radiation oncology because we got better chance? No way, Jose!
Personally, comparing % filled position or % match rate from previous years don't get you anywhere . If PM&R's step 1, step 2, %AOA, # of honors for clinical year, or things like that increases compare to previous year and other specialties, then that may be a different story. So, as of right now, I don't think anybody can say for sure that PM&R got more competitive than last year based on % filled position or % match rate (Well... in a way, one can argue it got easier for US grads!)
I am not saying I am definitely right. Please fill free to fill in, if you see any gaps. Again, I am not trying to play down on PM&R. I am just saying it is too early to tell. That's all folks!
Well, medical school in general is turning out to be a bad deal.
If people are only getting 70% chance to match into their field (or less!!) after building up 250k in debt, what a joke.
MD / DO combined match plus lots of new schools opening - while the match percentages are dropping to the 70's in fields once considered moderate/low competitiveness (including anesthesia/FM dropping)... med school match in 5 years? Who knows. Glad I'm done next year, entering class of 2018... good luck.
The surgical sub specialties are matching in the 70's, PMR in the 60's, Anesthesia in the 60's, even FM had 15% US seniors (MDs) unable to match. I need to know if they count multi specialty applications here or what. Charting the outcomes would be nice to make sense of these #'s.
I think it is probably somewhat safe to assume that most people who applied for PGY1 also applied to PGY2 positions. I don't see too many people only applying to PGY 1 position. So it comes down to...
2012
363/532=68%
2013
396/593 =67%
2014
393/617 = 64%
Does this mean psych is more competitive than us? I doubt it.
Does this mean we should all apply for radiation oncology because we got better chance? No way, Jose!
Personally, comparing % filled position or % match rate from previous years don't get you anywhere . If PM&R's step 1, step 2, %AOA, # of honors for clinical year, or things like that increases comparing to previous year and other specialties, then that may be a different story. So, as of right now, I don't think anybody can say for sure that PM&R got more competitive than last year based on % filled position or % match rate (Well... in a way, one can argue it got easier for US grads!)
I am not saying I am definitely right. Please fill free to fill in, if you see any gaps. Again, I am not trying to play down on PM&R. I am just saying it is too early to tell. That's all folks!
I think it's time to do what Canada does honestly. First round - only AMGs/DOs. Whatever's left - whoever. No reason why anyone who is an AMG/DO should not get a spot.
Hey guys,
I am sincerely interested in PM&R, and I am writing this so that people do not get scared and run away from PM&R thinking that it recently got overly competitive. I just wanted to point out that the numbers can be very deceptive sometimes. Let me get straight to my point (FYI. Number A/ Number B = Matched / Applied)
For PM&R
2012
PGY1) 86/373 = 23%
PGY2) 277/532 = 52%
2013
103/444 = 23%
293/593 = 50%
2014
96/444 = 22%
297/617 = 48%
I think it is probably somewhat safe to assume that most people who applied for PGY1 also applied to PGY2 positions. I don't see too many people only applying to PGY 1 position. So it comes down to...
2012
363/532=68%
2013
396/593 =67%
2014
393/617 = 64%
So, it may seem that 64% (2014) drop from 67% (2013) could look somewhat significant. For US grad, in 2013, 204 matched and 242 applied = 85%. But in 2014, 208 matched and 243 applied = 86%. So, for AMGs, both percentage and number wise, we did better than last year.
For psych
2012 their categorical was 1080/2008 = 54%
2014 their categorical was 1291/2363 = 55%
Does this mean psych is more competitive than us? I doubt it.
For radiation oncology
2014 their categorical was 175 / 224 applied = 78% (For US grads, I think 170 matched out of only 190 something applied. That is like almost 90% match rate!!)
Does this mean we should all apply for radiation oncology because we got better chance? No way, Jose!
Personally, comparing % filled position or % match rate from previous years don't get you anywhere . If PM&R's step 1, step 2, %AOA, # of honors for clinical year, or things like that increases comparing to previous year and other specialties, then that may be a different story. So, as of right now, I don't think anybody can say for sure that PM&R got more competitive than last year based on % filled position or % match rate (Well... in a way, one can argue it got easier for US grads!)
I am not saying I am definitely right. Please fill free to fill in, if you see any gaps. Again, I am not trying to play down on PM&R. I am just saying it is too early to tell. That's all folks!
hmm, I will need to revisit these #'s when I have more time.
First thought, they need to get someone smarter to put these #'s together. What's the purpose of them? To tell us what's the atmosphere of each specialty.
If someone matches PGY2 PMR but applied to PGY1 PMR (and then obviously didn't match PGY1) then they shouldn't include that person in the applicants total (because that person matched and we are double counting a person). OR, someone needs to make more categories so the numbers mean something. If we are double counting applicants in multiple fields and can't separate them (i.e. applied to both PGY1 / PGY2) then this is all chaos.
Neither did I and I had 11 interviews!!
I think that would be difficult to count. You should really look at the total numbers period. Obviously people will apply to both PGY1 and PGY2. I applied to both, clearly I only matched in one of those categories. But the matter of the fact is that regardless of this, at least 667 total applicants applied for PGY2 spots. I am assuming that of the 444 applicants who applied for PGY1 spots also applied for PGY2 spots. But again regardless of that, there were 667 TOTAL applicants and that is far in excess of the 383 spots that were available between PGY1 and PGY2 positions.
Damnnnn!!! I thought I had enough, so I didn't go on two others that I got invitations for. Bad decision obviously.Hey, fellow DO here. I had 14 interviews and matched at my #12. No negative feedback on anything. Not sure what happened this year.
Again, what you point out is just based on the match% rate only. It should be more about quality, not quantity, if you know what I mean. So, PM&R's trend goes along the same line with some of other specialties that are considered "less competitive." For example, I pointed out that psych had 2000 or so total applicants for 1000 or so total spots offered. Psych has about 50% rate, so is it worse/harder to match at psych? Again, the answer is no. For PM&R or any other specialties, the number we need to focus are the number of spots offered vs. number of US grad applicants vs. how much of those spots are filled with IMGs (More so, then just total number / total applicants = % match rate).
For 2014, PM&R had 617 total applicants (only 240 or so were US grads) for ~390 spots. Fact numero uno = this never happens to specialties that are considered to be 'competitive.' In fact, even after 'self' selection, there are always more US grads applicants than position offered for those specialties (ex. ENT, radiation oncology, dermatology and so on).
Fact numero dos= you can definitely see that from 2009 to 2013 (2014 was not different!), PM&R residency programs 'consistently' had to fill ~50% of their spots with IMGs. I say 'had to' because no PD in any specialty would give better chance for IMGs if US grad has something similar or even lower. As Paddington said PM&R PDs give 'a reasonably good break to IMG's and FMG's', not because they want to (but they 'HAD' to) because some of US grads were not qualified enough to get a spot even with significant advantages! Not to mention there are fewer number of US grads applied than position offered. Again, this almost never happens to 'competitive' specialties.
The following data was directly from match data 2013, and I don't believe we will see any difference from this year's match result. You will see where my logic comes from:
Specialties with at least 10 positions in The Match and filled more than 90 percent by U.S. seniors:
Radiation Oncology (PGY-1): 100 percent
Radiation Oncology (PGY-2): 98.1 percent
Otolaryngology: 97.2 percent
Dermatology (PGY-1): 95.7 percent
Plastic Surgery (PGY-2): 95.0 percent
Thoracic Surgery: 95.0 percent
Orthopedic Surgery: 94.0 percent
Vascular Surgery: 92.7 percent
Top five specialties with at least 10 positions in The Match and filled with significant numbers of independent
applicants (calculated from table):
Pediatrics-Primary: 55.2 percent
Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation (PGY-2): 48.1 percent
Family Medicine: 46.4 percent
Internal Medicine (Categorical): 43.3 percent
Neurology (PGY-2): 41.9 percent
Again, my point is that if you need to compare competitiveness with % match rate, then you need to dig deeper and see how many US grads were able to match vs. positions offered and % of IMGs filled.
I still believe that residency competitiveness should be determined by other objective measures such as average Step 1, 2, grades, research, and etc. comparing to other matched applicants in different specialties.
I am not arguing that PM&R isn't slowly winning the popularity contest and it sure will be up and coming for next 5-10 years (more applicants will apply fo sho! but more 'qualified' applicants? that should be our question). So, as of right now, I personally believe that PM&R is by no means a 'competitive' specialty for average US grad medical school student, and this year's match results still has not showed anything convincing enough for us to believe that PM&R is getting more 'competitive' (more 'popular' perhaps, but 'popularity' can not equal 'competitiveness' in my opinion, unless it gets its popularity from 'competitive' applicants)
You can believe what you'd like, but you are wrong imo. You have to realize, for example, that a lot of those "independent" applicants are DOs, not IMG/FMGs, or reapplicants/transfers that are US MD's like myself. During the interview trail, I met numerous US MD's who were changing specialty. Very few of the people I met were IMGs/FMGs actually, and if you look at residency rosters, you will find that most PMR spots are now taken up by US MDs or DOs with few IMG/FMGs.
Of the 383 positions in the match, 175 were filled by "others" many of which include DOs, reapplicants, transfers.
You look at typically more competitive specialties such as gas, rads, etc and you will see that they have a large % of foreign grads.
So while PMR is by no means derm, rad onc, ortho, or whatever, it is certainly becoming competitive. Applications have doubled in the past few years, scores have gone up dramatically, and most programs are filled with US MDs these days.
This worries me as a 2015 applicant. :-/
I'm a DO student who only took the comlex because I wanted to do pm&r and wanted to concentrate on doing well on the one test rather than hedging my bets with both. I got a 550 and am in the top 15% of my class but now I'm scared I won't match due to sheer numbers. Yikes!