Difference between EM and Anes Routes to Interventional Pain Management

[Got Em]

I have tried to google this for hours and haven't found what I'm looking for. I just have a few questions if anyone can answer them.

1) Pain fellowships are competitive for anesthesiology residents. I know that ABEM is now a co-sponsor for pain fellowships since April this year, does this still mean that it's more difficult for EM residents to get fellowship spots? Also, does anyone have data on this?

2) Are there fellowship programs that don't favor anesthesiology residents or are EM friendly?

3) Salaries for non-anes and anes interventional pain providers seems to differ quite a bit. Since physicians from other specialties can be trained in the same pain fellowships, what can an anes interventional pain physician do that ones from other specialties can't? I know that non-anes pain providers sometimes only do medical pain management, but why are non-anes interventional pain providers paid so much less? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks guys!

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[PMR_doc]

I have tried to google this for hours and haven't found what I'm looking for. I just have a few questions if anyone can answer them.

1) Pain fellowships are competitive for anesthesiology residents. I know that ABEM is now a co-sponsor for pain fellowships since April this year, does this still mean that it's more difficult for EM residents to get fellowship spots? Also, does anyone have data on this?

2) Are there fellowship programs that don't favor anesthesiology residents or are EM friendly?

3) Salaries for non-anes and anes interventional pain providers seems to differ quite a bit. Since physicians from other specialties can be trained in the same pain fellowships, what can an anes interventional pain physician do that ones from other specialties can't? I know that non-anes pain providers sometimes only do medical pain management, but why are non-anes interventional pain providers paid so much less? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks guys!

Most pain fellowships go to anesthesia and PMR these days. There are a number of PMR specific pain fellowships that favor PMR residents. The difference in pay generally depends on whether pain management is interventional vs. medical. Generally pay is similar if same procedures are done. While this may change in the future, I don't think that EM is favored per se in apps, since it's not a common specialty that goes into pain.

 

[emd123]

There's entire thread on this in the EM and Pain forums. Are you a medical student or a resident?

 

[Got Em]

There's entire thread on this in the EM and Pain forums. Are you a medical student or a resident?

EMD123, thank you for the response. I have seen that thread, as well as your article you've PM'd me. However, those do not address any specific questions that I have inquired about in this thread. I would just like to know 1) if there are any hard data on match rates (i know they're competitive, but HOW competitive?); 2) any programs that don't favor anes and those numbers; 3) why non-anes interventional pain management physicians get paid less even though they do the same procedures. Thank you.

 

[Got Em]

Most pain fellowships go to anesthesia and PMR these days. There are a number of PMR specific pain fellowships that favor PMR residents. The difference in pay generally depends on whether pain management is interventional vs. medical. Generally pay is similar if same procedures are done. While this may change in the future, I don't think that EM is favored per se in apps, since it's not a common specialty that goes into pain.

I did see that there were PMR specific ones, but didn't come across any EM only ones. Guess it's just not that popular for EMs? Also, from the data that I've seen, it stated that even non-anes interventional pain docs were paid significantly less, which didn't make sense to me either; maybe they do less procedures?

 

[emd123]

EMD123, thank you for the response. I have seen that thread, as well as your article you've PM'd me. However, those do not address any specific questions that I have inquired about in this thread. I would just like to know 1) if there are any hard data on match rates (i know they're competitive, but HOW competitive?); 2) any programs that don't favor anes and those numbers; 3) why non-anes interventional pain management physicians get paid less even though they do the same procedures. Thank you.

There's no hard data on match rates per specialty, that I'm aware of. The EM people I know that have applied seem to have a match rate of about 50%. That's actually surprisingly high, considering how new EM is within Pain.

There are programs that have taken or interviewed EM. I can PM them to you.

There are no programs that are technically under "only anesthesia" or "only PMR" anymore. They're technically all multi-specialty. In practice, the tend to take mostly anesthesia and favor anesthesia.

The reason the average salaries for anesthesia pain, and non-anesthesia pain are less for non-, is because some of the non-anesthesia docs may be non-procedural by choice, or mix in some Neuro or non-pain PMR (also by choice). Some may do Hospice/Palliative-Pain which is very low paying, dragging the average way down. Since these are lower paying, it brings the averages down. Otherwise, two doctors side by side in the same practice doing the same things doing only Pain, both from different primary specialties would make exactly the same.

 

[PMR_doc]

There are PMR specific pain fellowships for sure that tend to admit primarily PMR grads. Vcu, Spaulding, etc are examples. It is easier to get in from gas than PMR but I'd say less than 1/3 of PMR people care for pain fellowships. I think it's very new to Em so not sure any program specifically favors EM nor are there any EM specific fellowships.

As the other poster said if different specialties are doing just pain pay is same. Some non gas people also do other things so those tend to pay less and avgs are dragged down. Look at many job ads and u will see them
Saying pain job- PMR or anesthesia ok.

No hard match rate as it's only recently in the match. Most gas ppl tend to get in, coming from PMR again a bit harder but doable given the PMR based progra

I did see that there were PMR specific ones, but didn't come across any EM only ones. Guess it's just not that popular for EMs? Also, from the data that I've seen, it stated that even non-anes interventional pain docs were paid significantly less, which didn't make sense to me either; maybe they do less procedures?

pa