PhD/PsyD Difference between PA degree and RxP postdoctoral masters?

[Healthmed101]

When I looked at the difference between the RxP postdoctoral masters in psychopharmacology to train prescribing psychologists and a PA degree, they looked almost exactly the same and were about the same length, except that the psychopharmacology appeared to have more neuroscience type classes... They both taught the sciences (biochemistry, anatomy, etc), general medicine, diagnostics, differential diagnosis, ordering and interpreting lab, pharmacology, etc.

But as far as didactics or content, what is the difference? What do they teach in PA school that they don't teach in the psychopharm program or vise versa?

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[PsyDr]

I've seen a lady through an MSN program, taught in a med school, and completed an MSCP program. Ime:

Process wise: there's no cadaver lab. Some programs are mostly online based, although you have to do a clinical rotation. We'll have to see how yales program goes. The education is exclusively designed for mental health practice. In class, the professors will absolutely answer questions about other areas, but always always always instruct one along something like, "so while that's interesting for you, you would absolutely refer this back to internal medicine.". This can be frustrating.

Content wise: the content is extremely focused on mental health practice. Pharmacology is highly emphasized. Anatomy focuses on things like liver, kidneys, heart, brain, lungs, etc. While there is coverage of derm, etc it is not even close to PA, NP, or med school. Physio is likewise focused. Lots of acid base, etc. Infectious disease states, etc is very limited with the majority focusing on disease states that can appear to be psychiatric, and the effects of various disease states on medications. Labs and h&ps leave out things like ortho, pelvic exams, etc. There is no surgery rotation.

 

[Healthmed101]

I've seen a lady through an MSN program, taught in a med school, and completed an MSCP program. Ime:

Process wise: there's no cadaver lab. Some programs are mostly online based, although you have to do a clinical rotation. We'll have to see how yales program goes. The education is exclusively designed for mental health practice. In class, the professors will absolutely answer questions about other areas, but always always always instruct one along something like, "so while that's interesting for you, you would absolutely refer this back to internal medicine.". This can be frustrating.

Content wise: the content is extremely focused on mental health practice. Pharmacology is highly emphasized. Anatomy focuses on things like liver, kidneys, heart, brain, lungs, etc. While there is coverage of derm, etc it is not even close to PA, NP, or med school. Physio is likewise focused. Lots of acid base, etc. Infectious disease states, etc is very limited with the majority focusing on disease states that can appear to be psychiatric, and the effects of various disease states on medications. Labs and h&ps leave out things like ortho, pelvic exams, etc. There is no surgery rotation.

So it seems pretty similar and overlapping in many ways to a PA degree and very thorough, so then what is the problem that preventing rxp for psychologists and making so many against it?

 

[erg923]

So it seems pretty similar and overlapping in many ways to a PA degree and very thorough, so then what is the problem that preventing rxp for psychologists and making so many against it?

For me personally, I think the last thing we need in this country is MORE people to be prescribed psychiatric medication.

 

[Healthmed101]

For me personally, I think the last thing we need in this country is MORE people to be prescribed psychiatric medication.

So are you for this training and the medical psychology training just for added knowledge and competency in the field but not prescribing?

 

[erg923]

So are you for this training and the medical psychology training just for added knowledge and competency in the field but not prescribing?

thats a personal choice, and if one wants to spend their money for that purpose, fine with me.

 

[Justanothergrad]

For me personally, I think the last thing we need in this country is MORE people to be prescribed psychiatric medication.

I just wish there were ANY of those folks in certain areas. I don't see meds as a first line but it sure would be nice to have them as /a/ line in rural areas

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

The ability to prescribe also allows for the discontinuing of meds, which is just as or more important than just adding amother prescribing pad.

 

[Healthmed101]

The ability to prescribe also allows for the discontinuing of meds, which is just as or more important than just adding amother prescribing pad.

This is really what I would like to see psychologists get these rights for.

 

[Healthmed101]

This is really what I would like to see psychologists get these rights for.

The ability to prescribe also allows for the discontinuing of meds, which is just as or more important than just adding amother prescribing pad.

From speaking to someone in a state where these rights are granted, there's more patients who have been weaned of drugs than put on them.

 

[PsyDr]

So it seems pretty similar and overlapping in many ways to a PA degree and very thorough, so then what is the problem that preventing rxp for psychologists and making so many against it?

Politics, money, history, and a lack of research regsrdingn efficacy.

 

[Healthmed101]

Politics, money, history, and a lack of research regsrdingn efficacy.

The RxP psychologists that have been in the military for years aren't enough evidence for folks?

 

[PsyDr]

1) it's really not the same. Saying that just indicates to others that you are unfamiliar with PA/MSN/MD/DO training. I understand the enthusiasm, but saying they are the same is more harmful than helpful.

2) there's no empirical evidence one way or the other. We all know how anecdotal evidence plays out in academia.

 

[Healthmed101]

1) it's really not the same. Saying that just indicates to others that you are unfamiliar with PA/MSN/MD/DO training. I understand the enthusiasm, but saying they are the same is more harmful than helpful.

2) there's no empirical evidence one way or the other. We all know how anecdotal evidence plays out in academia.

So are you against the training?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

The DoD study had different training, so I put that in a slightly different category, but it was a good pilot to get the conversation started.

 

[PsyDr]

So are you against the training?

That's an interesting logical fallacy. I didn't state my position. I happen to be licensed as an RxPer, although I do not practice as such.

 

[Healthmed101]

That's an interesting logical fallacy. I didn't state my position. I happen to be licensed as an RxPer, although I do not practice as such.

What I was asking are you for or against the rights?

 

[Healthmed101]

That's an interesting logical fallacy. I didn't state my position. I happen to be licensed as an RxPer, although I do not practice as such.

So then my next question is, how do do they attain the evidence to show that they are competent psychopharmacologists?

 

[hamstergang]

So it seems pretty similar and overlapping in many ways to a PA degree and very thorough, so then what is the problem that preventing rxp for psychologists and making so many against it?

It's so weird -- he pointed out how they are different and what you took from that is that they're the same. The differences listed aren't necessarily insignificant.

 

[bcliff]

I've seen a lady through an MSN program, taught in a med school, and completed an MSCP program. Ime:

Process wise: there's no cadaver lab. Some programs are mostly online based, although you have to do a clinical rotation. We'll have to see how yales program goes. The education is exclusively designed for mental health practice. In class, the professors will absolutely answer questions about other areas, but always always always instruct one along something like, "so while that's interesting for you, you would absolutely refer this back to internal medicine.". This can be frustrating.

Content wise: the content is extremely focused on mental health practice. Pharmacology is highly emphasized. Anatomy focuses on things like liver, kidneys, heart, brain, lungs, etc. While there is coverage of derm, etc it is not even close to PA, NP, or med school. Physio is likewise focused. Lots of acid base, etc. Infectious disease states, etc is very limited with the majority focusing on disease states that can appear to be psychiatric, and the effects of various disease states on medications. Labs and h&ps leave out things like ortho, pelvic exams, etc. There is no surgery rotation.

Can you elaborate on Yale's program? -- I'm interested in pursuing the RxP MSCP in the future, but it seems like there are relatively few programs housed within reputable universities (Farleigh Dickinson is the only one coming to mind right now, but I know there are others... U. Hawaii?). I'm surprised that in states like NM and LA, the major universities haven't started providing any formal training (I'm thinking specifically of LSU and its medical school, which I know do not offer the degree).

**haven't, not have

 

[smalltownpsych]

It's so weird -- he pointed out how they are different and what you took from that is that they're the same. The differences listed aren't necessarily insignificant.

That poster seems to have an agenda and makes variations of the same point in every thread they joined. I doubt that they are a psychology student or psychologist.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I'm surprised that in states like NM and LA, the major universities have started providing any formal training (I'm thinking specifically of LSU and its medical school, which I know do not offer the degree).

New Mexico State offers a training program. Iowa just passed prescribing rights to psychologists, so it'll be interesting to see if they get a state university on board.

 

[Healthmed101]

That poster seems to have an agenda and makes variations of the same point in every thread they joined. I doubt that they are a psychology student or psychologist.

MSW considering psychology route. Very curious and word things differently each time because sometimes do not get direct answers.

 

[PsyDr]

I very directly told you the differences. You responded, " So it seems pretty similar...".

 

[Healthmed101]

I very directly told you the differences. You responded, " So it seems pretty similar...".

Yes but it seems there at more similarities and they are equally as thorough.

 

[erg923]

Yes but it seems there at more similarities and they are equally as thorough.

Process wise: there's no cadaver lab. Some programs are mostly online based, although you have to do a clinical rotation. We'll have to see how yales program goes. The education is exclusively designed for mental health practice. In class, the professors will absolutely answer questions about other areas, but always always always instruct one along something like, "so while that's interesting for you, you would absolutely refer this back to internal medicine.". This can be frustrating.

Content wise: the content is extremely focused on mental health practice. Pharmacology is highly emphasized. Anatomy focuses on things like liver, kidneys, heart, brain, lungs, etc. While there is coverage of derm, etc it is not even close to PA, NP, or med school. Physio is likewise focused. Lots of acid base, etc. Infectious disease states, etc is very limited with the majority focusing on disease states that can appear to be psychiatric, and the effects of various disease states on medications. Labs and h&ps leave out things like ortho, pelvic exams, etc. There is no surgery rotation.

Where is the similarity?

 

[Healthmed101]

Where is the similarity?

They cover all of the same topics except each one goes into various amounts of depth with each topic

 

[erg923]

They cover all of the same topics except each one goes into various amounts of depth with each topic

Which would seem to be of primary importance when people lives are on the line, no?

 

[Healthmed101]

Which would seem to be of primary importance when people lives are on the line, no?

As far as what? They both are geared to allow each individual to practice within their scope.