Direct Primary Care Success Stories

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mainetrout

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Hello all,

For the physicians who run direct primary care clinics,

  • how do you run your practice (membership or fee-for-service)?
  • what services do you offer
  • around how much do you charge?
  • how large is your patient panel?
  • if membership, how long did it take you to get your patient panel to maximum capacity?
  • would you say your practice is successful?

I would appreciate all responses from direct care physicians or those transitioning into direct care. The DPC movement is quite intriguing and exciting and I would like to hear from you all.

Thanks.

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Thanks sb247, good link.

How many docs on SDN are doing direct care? I've read a good amount about AtlasMD.

I'd like to know how many docs are running DPC practices and how their experience has been thus far.

Thanks.
@VA Hopeful Dr is the only one that I know of besides atlas
 
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Hello all,

For the physicians who run direct primary care clinics,

  • how do you run your practice (membership or fee-for-service)?
  • what services do you offer
  • around how much do you charge?
  • how large is your patient panel?
  • if membership, how long did it take you to get your patient panel to maximum capacity?
  • would you say your practice is successful?

I would appreciate all responses from direct care physicians or those transitioning into direct care. The DPC movement is quite intriguing and exciting and I would like to hear from you all.

Thanks.
Membership
Pretty much the same services that other family doctors do, plus my personal e-mail/cell phone for after hours/weekends, in-house dispensary, and discounted blood work.
Starts at $50/month tiered by age, max $80/month
310 as of today
Halfway there at 10 months
So far
 
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Hello Maintrout - AtlasMD here - so sorry if i'm repeating other stuff you've read online.

We do offer all of our consulting free of charge b/c we're passionate about growing the dpc movement. Rising tides raise all ships and we need every dpc doctor to be successful so that we can continue to attract the support of patients, employers and insurance companies.

We’ve made it as turnkey as possible with sample contracts, enrollment forms, vendor relationship, wholesale lab / medication / imaging pricing, checklists and more. And we’ve recently released a 12 chapter DPC curriculum free at https://atlas.md/dpc-curriculum/

We also have a blog and podcast to help answer common questions.
www.atlas.md/blog
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/atlas-md/id674138661

and here's a good general video:

great Boston Globe article from last week: https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/04/19/primarycare/KWhFenipdotfHFN0ZZZhrN/story.html
 
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to answer your specific questions:
  • how do you run your practice (membership or fee-for-service)? -- membership
  • what services do you offer - unlimited visits, no copays, free procedures, and access to wholesale meds and labs for up to 95% savings
  • around how much do you charge? - based on age, $10/50/75/100 per month
  • how large is your patient panel? - 600 per docs is the recommend panel size - although over time, i think a doctor could go to 700 or 800 for more revenue
  • if membership, how long did it take you to get your patient panel to maximum capacity? - starting fresh, a good model with marketing can grow at 30+pts per month. A converting practice can pre-enroll 200-300 from their existing patients
  • would you say your practice is successful? Yes, we started with 1 doctor and no patients and now have 5 doctors and 2 locations - but we've helped over 170 convert to this model in the last 2+ years
 
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Thank you all for your responses!

A couple of questions for @AtlasMD and @VA Hopeful Dr .

I am going to be straightforward with you all.

Do you think it is possible to run a successful DPC practice without doing house calls?

The two reasons I ask are:
  1. Liability
  2. Personal Safety
I think being there for your patients whenever and wherever (office, work, home) is great. I just tend to think of all possible circumstances.

I assume you all do house calls.

How do you view these issues when doing house calls?

Do you do house calls because you know your patients so well that you rest assured that these issues are not going to happen?

Thanks!
 
Thank you all for your responses!

A couple of questions for @AtlasMD and @VA Hopeful Dr .

I am going to be straightforward with you all.

Do you think it is possible to run a successful DPC practice without doing house calls?

The two reasons I ask are:
  1. Liability
  2. Personal Safety
I think being there for your patients whenever and wherever (office, work, home) is great. I just tend to think of all possible circumstances.

I assume you all do house calls.

How do you view these issues when doing house calls?

Do you do house calls because you know your patients so well that you rest assured that these issues are not going to happen?

Thanks!
Plenty of DPC docs don't do housecalls. I offer them but in the last year I haven't actually done any - I've done quite a few business calls, and one or two sporting event calls but those should be fine for your concerns.
 
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  • if membership, how long did it take you to get your patient panel to maximum capacity? - starting fresh, a good model with marketing can grow at 30+pts per month. A converting practice can pre-enroll 200-300 from their existing patients
  • would you say your practice is successful? Yes, we started with 1 doctor and no patients and now have 5 doctors and 2 locations - but we've helped over 170 convert to this model in the last 2+ years
I wanted to call attention to this again. I'm shamelessly copying Atlas' model. When I first opened up, I was getting like 5-8 new patients/day. Then I hired a marketing firm and that number jumped to around 40-50/month. If you're the first DPC in the region, you'll do fine.
 
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Happy to help:

Q.Do you think it is possible to run a successful DPC practice without doing house calls?
A. Absolutely. Although its a very nice 'buzz word' for marketing, branding (most docs don't do house calls but its nostalgic to the consumer) - they are VERY rarely used in my 5 1/2 years of dpc experience.

Also, you can always do a home visit for an LOL - little old lady - if you WANT to...but you don't have to advertise it.

And some of my "home visits" are to assisted living facilities - so its no problem at all.
 
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Good to know!

It's cool to know that there are MANY options when it comes to Direct Primary Care.

I can imagine many communities benefiting from this model of care due to either not having insurance or their deductibles being too high. PLUS getting to spend 30+ minutes with your physician is so rare now-a-days.

@AtlasMD @VA Hopeful Dr Do you all know of any DPC docs who offer lower membership fees for poorer communities. I think you're fees are very affordable. I'm just wondering if there are docs out there who tailor their fees specifically for communities of lower social economic status and income and what their fees are.

Thank you for your responses!
 
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I've seen plenty of patients on Medicaid and food stamps with iPhones and SUV's. $50/month is affordable for the non-homeless american. To think otherwise is to provide more crutches for society.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Good to know!

It's cool to know that there are MANY options when it comes to Direct Primary Care.

I can imagine many communities benefiting from this model of care due to either not having insurance or their deductibles being too high. PLUS getting to spend 30+ minutes with your physician is so rare now-a-days.

@AtlasMD @VA Hopeful Dr Do you all know of any DPC docs who offer lower membership fees for poorer communities. I think you're fees are very affordable. I'm just wondering if there are docs out there who tailor their fees specifically for communities of lower social economic status and income and what their fees are.

Thank you for your responses!
Here's where google comes in handy. I've no desire to look up other clinic's fees but its very easy to do so go nuts.
 
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Good to know!

It's cool to know that there are MANY options when it comes to Direct Primary Care.

I can imagine many communities benefiting from this model of care due to either not having insurance or their deductibles being too high. PLUS getting to spend 30+ minutes with your physician is so rare now-a-days.

@AtlasMD @VA Hopeful Dr Do you all know of any DPC docs who offer lower membership fees for poorer communities. I think you're fees are very affordable. I'm just wondering if there are docs out there who tailor their fees specifically for communities of lower social economic status and income and what their fees are.

Thank you for your responses!

I have looked into this periodically. I have not found a practice that has been successful with patients under the age of 65 in a poor underserved area. Iora health focuses on older patients on Medicare (and possibly Medicaid). They are a population at higher risk with more money from governments to pay for their care.

Anecdotally, I have heard of a physician or two in the area that would run an urgent care like cash practice in a poor underserved area that was successful but not with a membership base.

There are some articles that do expound upon possible ways of provider care to a mixed population.
 
@AtlasMD

I'm a bit confused about how physician's get paid. Assuming that membership is about $50/month, and you have 500 patients, that's about 300,000 you're bringing in yearly. But how much of that ends up in your pocket? I'm sure a large chunk of it goes into running the practice and other free services for the patient?
 
@AtlasMD

I'm a bit confused about how physician's get paid. Assuming that membership is about $50/month, and you have 500 patients, that's about 300,000 you're bringing in yearly. But how much of that ends up in your pocket? I'm sure a large chunk of it goes into running the practice and other free services for the patient?
DPC has very low overhead, usually around 33%, so that 300,000 will gross the doctor 200k.
 
How does DPC membership fully replace health insurance? What if a condition or event requires a specialist?
 
How does DPC membership fully replace health insurance? What if a condition or event requires a specialist?
it doesn't replace health insurance for the more "catastrophic" items. it is primary care. patients would normally be advised to just go and get a slightly larger deductable plan
 
it doesn't replace health insurance for the more "catastrophic" items. it is primary care. patients would normally be advised to just go and get a slightly larger deductable plan
OK, makes sense. Honestly, this sounds like a great system. Do you think that specialization will ever fit into a "direct" method of healthcare?
 
OK, makes sense. Honestly, this sounds like a great system. Do you think that specialization will ever fit into a "direct" method of healthcare?

There's an ortho near me who does a membership model with a few other orthos, but with a twist. The company these surgeons formed markets themselves to other companies, so now they have a panel consisting of all the employees at that company. They travel between a couple cities, so they have a private jet to get them to the employee's hospital quickly and begin surgery. There are similar models for corporate med in primary care.

I also wanted to point out that there are a few more pros to the direct care system that haven't been said yet, and unfortunately one major con:
Pros:
-imaging is typically reduced in cost due to negotiation between the primary doc and the imaging center/practice due to all the doc's patients being cash pay; no hassle for immediate payment
-many states allow docs to dispense medications (not 100% sure on the ins-and-outs of this), so the docs can give at cost medications, as well
-more time between the doc and the patient

Cons:
-due to the smaller panel sizes, the community as a whole suffers from the loss of a healthcare provider (it's like losing a part time equivalent doc)

I was about to add that those who lose the most here are those who have the most to lose, but that's not true in all situations. Those who couldn't afford healthcare insurance would have previously gone to the doc and been hit by a large bill afterward, or they may have just not gone to the doc. These people are harmed by this system in that they lose a clinic to go to when they need assistance (so they'll most likely just go to the E.R. at a larger cost).

Atlas' model could really help a family that is struggling to support themselves and pay a hefty health insurance premium at the same time. Basically, it's for those who were already paying for health insurance, but now they can buy the cheaper-by-the-month high deductible plan and save a lot per year, with some or all of those savings now going to the membership. In return, they get greatly increased services.

The guy who first did this was a former professional sports team doc in the Northwest who decided he would charge $25,000 annually for an entire family and then he accepted several dozen families into his model. He has since said that if his model were to really gain a great deal of traction, there would be public backlash and legislation aimed at forcing doctors to take more patients. That's the balance: a sweet deal for a select few and their doctor on the one hand, a good deal for many working families in the middle, and a crappy deal for the doc forced to take Medicare/aid on the other end if the whole thing gets too big.

The most recent data I read about this movement was a survey from, if I recall correctly, a physician recruiting company that stated roughly 9% of family docs were considering this model, with a smaller proportion actually putting it into practice. In the current and upcoming (Clinton) political climate, if that number reaches 15% or so, there's going to be a lot of discussion about legislative restrictions.

I haven't looked at larger corporate models like MedLion, but there are some other interesting ideas out there to be investigated.
 
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In a membership DPC model, how is overutilization prevented? Is there a fee per visit and if so how much?
 
In a membership DPC model, how is overutilization prevented? Is there a fee per visit and if so how much?
Iirc, atlas said it just hasn't been a problem. They only see 4-5 patients a day with panels of 600ish. People simply don't want to see the doctor everyday
 
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Iirc, atlas said it just hasn't been a problem. They only see 4-5 patients a day with panels of 600ish. People simply don't want to see the doctor everyday

Wonder if it's a feature of culture or patient selection that would avoid it here. I seem to recall it becoming quite an issue in Britain and Germany (probably elsewhere, but those two come to mind)
 
People have better things to do than come to the doctor twice a month.

Most people yea. The lonely elderly and somatizers / hypochondriacs aren't most people though. And while clearly a different system fundamentally from something like the NHS, it puts patients in the same no cost position to see primary care (so far as I understand). Maybe these primary care frequent fliers are a bigger issue cost wise on a national scale than they would be to any given physician's practice. Or maybe the culture in the US or the patients who make up DPC patient panels are different
 
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You know, I could handle a few patients who wanted to come see me twice a month or more... hypochondriacs or somatizers or whatever you want to call them... they have a real problem if they want to be seen that often. Maybe it isn't an easily diagnosed physical ailment. Maybe it is psychological, maybe it is more psychosocial. Either way, they have an issue, and as someone interested in holistic care, I could potentially be a resource to help them address whatever it is.

The way to go about that is to point out that they are seeking lots of care for problems that don't seem to be purely medical. Address it head on. See if it is possible to determine what the underlying unmet need is. If it is something that I can provide help with, then great. If not, then I might have to bring in help from social work or a therapist or some other resource.

These patients aren't the majority. Whether they are problematic for a practice or not depends on how they are dealt with. I'm not going into this profession to administer the minimum amount of medical care necessary to extract the most value from my customers. I'm going into it to help people live better, healthier lives. If that means seeing someone twice a week for a few weeks, until we work through what is going on with them, so be it. If it means seeing them twice a week forever, well, heck, if that is therapeutic for them, at least the documentation will become increasingly trivial to complete, as it won't change much from week to week.

Also - just want to keep track of this thread, as I progress toward my eventual DPC practice. (If I change my tune along the way, I'll be sure to share that, but it seems unlikely at this point. I didn't come to these opinions through starry eyed lack of experience, but through enough exposure to the way things work now to be completely disgusted and eager for something better, for doctors and for patients.)
 
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If the Clinton administration were to ban DPC it sounds like there would at least be less paperwork if we switch to a Canadian like system.
 
You know, I could handle a few patients who wanted to come see me twice a month or more... hypochondriacs or somatizers or whatever you want to call them... they have a real problem if they want to be seen that often. Maybe it isn't an easily diagnosed physical ailment. Maybe it is psychological, maybe it is more psychosocial. Either way, they have an issue, and as someone interested in holistic care, I could potentially be a resource to help them address whatever it is.

The way to go about that is to point out that they are seeking lots of care for problems that don't seem to be purely medical. Address it head on. See if it is possible to determine what the underlying unmet need is. If it is something that I can provide help with, then great. If not, then I might have to bring in help from social work or a therapist or some other resource.

These patients aren't the majority. Whether they are problematic for a practice or not depends on how they are dealt with. I'm not going into this profession to administer the minimum amount of medical care necessary to extract the most value from my customers. I'm going into it to help people live better, healthier lives. If that means seeing someone twice a week for a few weeks, until we work through what is going on with them, so be it. If it means seeing them twice a week forever, well, heck, if that is therapeutic for them, at least the documentation will become increasingly trivial to complete, as it won't change much from week to week.

Also - just want to keep track of this thread, as I progress toward my eventual DPC practice. (If I change my tune along the way, I'll be sure to share that, but it seems unlikely at this point. I didn't come to these opinions through starry eyed lack of experience, but through enough exposure to the way things work now to be completely disgusted and eager for something better, for doctors and for patients.)

I agree with your sentiment in general, and to that end, my word choice and concern with the model in general might need to be adapted. Flat membership fees are a practice viability concern both for overutilizers (defined how you like) and high utilizers regardless of appropriateness of that utilization. Some of the latter is built into the model by age adjusted pricing. FWIW I like the model in general and think ambulatory care could be well suited to it.
 
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Most people yea. The lonely elderly and somatizers / hypochondriacs aren't most people though. And while clearly a different system fundamentally from something like the NHS, it puts patients in the same no cost position to see primary care (so far as I understand). Maybe these primary care frequent fliers are a bigger issue cost wise on a national scale than they would be to any given physician's practice. Or maybe the culture in the US or the patients who make up DPC patient panels are different
Luckily those patients make up a fairly small percentage of the population. For every patient I have that calls/texts twice a week, I have 10 who I see once/year and maybe e-mail twice/year.
 
On the issue of hypochondriac patients, just thinking of my experiences with these kinds of patients as a psychiatrist, I feel like seeing those patients would probably be less frustrating for a primary care doctor in this model than it is in the conventional model. At least this way you have more time to sit there and listen to them, rather than trying to rush them out the door because you have patients stacked like cordwood and they're throwing your schedule off with vague complaints.
I could definitely picture some patients using their primary doc as a de facto therapist if they get the chance since many people find visiting a psychiatrist or therapist stigmatizing.

I wonder if there would be a way to set boundaries that most patients would find very reasonable such as saying the basic fee covers up to 2-3 appointments a week (or something like that) to keep things from getting totally out of hand with the few who might go overboard.
 
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