Disadvantaged Status: An Ugly Question?

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amaranth

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In trying to answer this question for myself I've had to ask "Are my childhood experiences with domestic violence enough to be considered disadvantaged?" I thought about it, I read the posts, I even wrote the justification essay. And then I looked at the question again and it just seems absurd. Especially, when my main worry is that I sound "whiny" about something that has shaped my entire life.

When I read other people's posts, where they open up and let others analyze some of the hardest and most emotional parts of their lives I literally, cringe. The lack of sensitivity and judgement is astounding. Posts where people cite their own lives, basically saying 'you didn't suffer as much as I did so you're not disadvantaged' really make me flinch.

Does anyone else think that AAMC could drastically improve how they frame this question so we don't need to go through this internal turmoil anymore?
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disadvantaged is defined by income. Everyone has problems.



Why change it? Its doesn't necessarily mean what adversity have you faced? -- like some interpret it.
 
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^ Correct. Disadvantaged according to AMCAS is a result of poverty.

I did see an applicant who was from a very wealthy family (I'd guess their family income was >$700,000/yr given the parents' occupations)who wrote in a "overcoming adversity" essay that his family was affected by domestic violence. It would have been ridiculous for that applicant to have checked the "disadvantaged" box.

The point of "disadvantaged" is to identify students who arrived at college having had a childhood without things that other children take for granted such as enrichment activities, travel, private tutors, excellent schools and so forth. These students often need to run to catch up to peers as they lack life experiences that may be considered the norm for incoming freshmen.

That box can also be a place to explain an out of the ordinary childhood and place the rest of the life in context (e.g. joined the military right out of HS given family situation and lack of support for college).
 
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I agree, AMCAS needs to do a MUCH better job framing/explaining this.

I'm inclined to agree that people here are truly vicious in their responses to people's stories of adversity. On the other hand, at the root of it, I am grateful for the real-life advice and translations of what "disadvantage" means. For me at least, the good of getting the information I need FAR outweighs the sting I get from unkind feedback.
 
PanicMoon said:
I'm a little confused by this response. I went through childhood without those things & many other "luxuries" like that, but I wouldn't say it was a result of poverty.

Mom got pregnant at 18, married dad at 19, divorced at 20. Mom & dad both suffer from mental illness & substance abuse. Mom got full custody & managed to hold down a job, but dad was always in out & of work & never contributed financially. I'm not going to go into the gory details, but I was fairly neglected & abused. We never really had much money & I was left alone a lot of the time, but I never had to worry about clothes, food, etc. I didn't always have the best things, but I had enough of what I needed to get by.

I was bounced around amongst family members, mostly to my maternal grandparents, who did their best, but both were succumbing to a variety of illness by the time I was entering junior high. My grandparents & my aunt scrapped together the cash to send me to Catholic school K - 12, but I wouldn't say my schooling was really any better than the local public schools.

Would the whole single mom with a high school education & a noncontributing father push a person into the disadvantaged category or is that situation so common now that nobody really even bats an eye?
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By no means is this common, but I think the real question to ask is, "is this appropriate to mention here?" Specifically, did this experience inhibit your ability to go to college and succeed?

It may or may not be helpful to share this kind of information, but I'm not sure that the disadvantaged section is the place to do so.
 
PanicMoon said:
I'm a little confused by this response. I went through childhood without those things & many other "luxuries" like that, but I wouldn't say it was a result of poverty.

Mom got pregnant at 18, married dad at 19, divorced at 20. Mom & dad both suffer from mental illness & substance abuse. Mom got full custody & managed to hold down a job, but dad was always in out & of work & never contributed financially. I'm not going to go into the gory details, but I was fairly neglected & abused. We never really had much money & I was left alone a lot of the time, but I never had to worry about clothes, food, etc. I didn't always have the best things, but I had enough of what I needed to get by.

I was bounced around amongst family members, mostly to my maternal grandparents, who did their best, but both were succumbing to a variety of illness by the time I was entering junior high. My grandparents & my aunt scrapped together the cash to send me to Catholic school K - 12, but I wouldn't say my schooling was really any better than the local public schools.

Would the whole single mom with a high school education & a noncontributing father push a person into the disadvantaged category or is that situation so common now that nobody really even bats an eye?
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It is very rare to see that sort of story among med school applicants. I recall a similar applicant ~6 yrs ago (white male) and no one doubted that he was "disadvantaged" by his lack of a stable family structure growing up. He was a very non-traditional applicant having taken a very non-traditional path to medical school and the early story explained how he ended up taking that long and winding path.
 
So if a parent of mine has been out of my life since I was about 10ish, should I still list that person under parent/guardian? I have a stepfather that I'm listing and my mother but I'm not sure if I should list my father. Obviously this isn't meant to spark a discussion of what is and isn't a father, just wondering if it would come off as whiny if I mentioned that I have absolutely no idea where he lives/what job he has.
 
MDschoolorbust said:
So if a parent of mine has been out of my life since I was about 10ish, should I still list that person under parent/guardian? I have a stepfather that I'm listing and my mother but I'm not sure if I should list my father. Obviously this isn't meant to spark a discussion of what is and isn't a father, just wondering if it would come off as whiny if I mentioned that I have absolutely no idea where he lives/what job he has.
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That isn't unheard of... list three parents and answer "unknown" for the information about your father. That will be informative.
 
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LizzyM said:
That isn't unheard of... list three parents and answer "unknown" for the information about your father. That will be informative.
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Gotchya. Obviously anything on my app is fair game, I was just wondering if I would have to explain that whole ordeal.

Also, I'm semi new to SDN and your advice is generally the one I follow absolutely. Thanks.
 
Nobody wants to ber a poor minority Unless...... they are applying to medical school. All of a sudden, everybody is 1/1000% black with some native american on the mother's side and had to live off food stamps.
 
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BAHAHAAA!

"As you can see, the vague nature of self-determined disadvantage creates unnecessary confusion for medical school applicants. Search "disadvantaged status" and " AMCAS" and you will find yourself on a wild-Google chase for the answer. Unfortunately, many students end up consulting websites like the Student Doctor Network, where premeds with questionable motives may discourage those who feel disadvantaged from claiming this status for a "leg up." The discussions that take place on these sorts of websites can be quite unproductive and demeaning towards others' personal struggles."

I did a google search to try and find more information about this topic given some of the SDN bias (I have a "non-typical" background as well) and quickly found this. I was highly amused. I'm a non-trad freshly decided to tackle this path, but I have a while to figure out what all I should do. Good luck, OP.
 
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kg062008 said:
Nobody wants to ber a poor minority Unless...... they are applying to medical school. All of a sudden, everybody is 1/1000% black with some native american on the mother's side and had to live off food stamps.
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SWEET! I qualify! :smuggrin:
 
If you grew up in a foreign third world country and came to US for graduate study. Will it be considered disadvantaged?
 
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and slowly this thread turns into all the other ones about disadvantaged status...

Reading through all the posts I still see the same inconsistencies pop up. The first few posts seem adamant that disadvantage comes strictly from poverty. Then someone tells their life story and people seem to back track to the old 'did it prevent you from going to college?' question. Which is a huge and vague question in itself. I would say yes, my experience with domestic violence did bar me from many opportunities regardless of whether we could afford it or not.

That question does not ask 'did poverty directly prevent you from opportunities to go to college that you otherwise would have?' If AMCAS wants to ask about poverty then they should explicitly say it.

Instead we keep going down the same road over and over again. Asking questions like: "Am I being whiny?" "Is my suffering unique enough?" "If i'm not under the poverty line, but I went to xyz was that bad enough to make me disadvantaged?"

In my personal opinion the question 'did it inihibit you from attending college and succeeding?' is pretty much useless in all but the most obvious cases. A lot of things affected my ability to go to college and succeed starting from an unstable childhood, but that just leads to the questions listed above. Not to mention that the fact that I am applying to medical school means that I managed to graduate college and succeed to a certain extent. How do I then psychologically reconcile that with being "disadvantaged"? My obstacles weren't huge enough that I couldn't overcome them so is my claim to be disadvantaged legitimate?

Honestly, I understand that schools want applicants that can take a good hard look at themselves and be able to articulate it to others. I understand that they use this question to make a hard decision. But sometimes I just think it's outrageous how much access I give to a group of strangers over the facets of my life.

PS: By strangers I don't mean studentdoc forums posters. That's a personal choice. Though I think some people could be more considerate in the wording of their replies.
 
What about whether or not I should file disadvantaged ?

I had a verbally/sexually abusive teacher in grades 1-4, living in a very underserved rural town in which we had to drive 2.5 hours to a city for psychiatric help when family medicine care didn't provide adequate help - lived in 3 foster homes in years following. Tumultous.

My family always poor, I have 5 younger siblings, dad works while mom is homemaker.

Both parents didn't finish high school, when I began college talk and enrolling, I was very discouraged because they thought they would lose me. I'm of course first in the family.

All tuition was paid out of my personal savings (most of it) and federal aid like PELL grants.

Let me know if I would have a convincing argument. After years of hard work, 20 year old white male with 3.94 gpa and destined to go back and provide primary care to underserved....
 
Joshturnerfan said:
What about whether or not I should file disadvantaged ?

I had a verbally/sexually abusive teacher in grades 1-4, living in a very underserved rural town in which we had to drive 2.5 hours to a city for psychiatric help when family medicine care didn't provide adequate help - lived in 3 foster homes in years following. Tumultous.

My family always poor, I have 5 younger siblings, dad works while mom is homemaker.

Both parents didn't finish high school, when I began college talk and enrolling, I was very discouraged because they thought they would lose me. I'm of course first in the family.

All tuition was paid out of my personal savings (most of it) and federal aid like PELL grants.

Let me know if I would have a convincing argument. After years of hard work, 20 year old white male with 3.94 gpa and destined to go back and provide primary care to underserved....
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What's your financial situation like now?

I don't want specifics or anything but I'm wondering whether your earlier hardships are still with you today...perhaps to a lesser extent?
 
Sorry to hijack the thread but I have a similar question.

I grew up in a broken family- mom was an addict and an alcoholic and I was raised single handedly by my dad. He made < 30,000/year working two jobs and I received free state health care. I had to get a job when I was 16 to contribute to bills and such. Paid for my own college/living expenses.

However, now I am doing well. Have a research stable job at the NIH and am able to afford applications, etc. Am I still disadvantaged?
 
levodopa said:
Sorry to hijack the thread but I have a similar question.

I grew up in a broken family- mom was an addict and an alcoholic and I was raised single handedly by my dad. He made < 30,000/year working two jobs and I received free state health care. I had to get a job when I was 16 to contribute to bills and such. Paid for my own college/living expenses.

However, now I am doing well. Have a research stable job at the NIH and am able to afford applications, etc. Am I still disadvantaged?
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Were you an only child?

But regardless, the disadvantaged status applies only from 0-18yrs old, regardless of your current age.
 
A sorry situation about your mother, but when you say things like "single-handedly" worked, etc etc etc, and you're the ONLY child, it starts to make you wonder. You do realize that 1000s of the kids applying as disadvantaged probably had parents that made less than $30k and more than 3 kids? I'm not saying you weren't disadvantaged, but a $30k income with 1 child seems like a good deal in the grand scheme of things, hah!
 
jHustle said:
A sorry situation about your mother, but when you say things like "single-handedly" worked, etc etc etc, and you're the ONLY child, it starts to make you wonder. You do realize that 1000s of the kids applying as disadvantaged probably had parents that made less than $30k and more than 3 kids? I'm not saying you weren't disadvantaged, but a $30k income with 1 child seems like a good deal in the grand scheme of things, hah!
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OP you obviously have never paid a mortgage or utility bills or bought groceries. $30,000 is not a lot of money these days. It is enough for the basic necessities but nothing extra.
 
My family grew up with a fair bit of money because my mother made 100k/yr. However, my parents refuse to pay for anything extra for me or my siblings. I haven't had any of these enrichment activities, tutors, or expensive schools. My mother is of the mindset that she made it on her own and I can too.

I wish she hardly made any money sometimes, I assume our lifestyle wouldn't change much because my parents are super cheap. The only real benefit is that our house is large (7200sf), but I like to say that it just takes more steps to make it to the kitchen.

I know it isn't the same situation as those whose parents make 30k/yr, but it gets old hearing my parents complain about how much McDonalds costs when they have 300k in the bank.
 
LizzyM said:
^ Correct. Disadvantaged according to AMCAS is a result of poverty.

I did see an applicant who was from a very wealthy family (I'd guess their family income was >$700,000/yr given the parents' occupations)who wrote in a "overcoming adversity" essay that his family was affected by domestic violence. It would have been ridiculous for that applicant to have checked the "disadvantaged" box.

The point of "disadvantaged" is to identify students who arrived at college having had a childhood without things that other children take for granted such as enrichment activities, travel, private tutors, excellent schools and so forth. These students often need to run to catch up to peers as they lack life experiences that may be considered the norm for incoming freshmen.

That box can also be a place to explain an out of the ordinary childhood and place the rest of the life in context (e.g. joined the military right out of HS given family situation and lack of support for college).
Click to expand...
This makes so much more sense! I was unsure what things to include in my disadvantage statement, and this clears it all up, thanks!
 
amaranth said:
In trying to answer this question for myself I've had to ask "Are my childhood experiences with domestic violence enough to be considered disadvantaged?" I thought about it, I read the posts, I even wrote the justification essay. And then I looked at the question again and it just seems absurd. Especially, when my main worry is that I sound "whiny" about something that has shaped my entire life.

When I read other people's posts, where they open up and let others analyze some of the hardest and most emotional parts of their lives I literally, cringe. The lack of sensitivity and judgement is astounding. Posts where people cite their own lives, basically saying 'you didn't suffer as much as I did so you're not disadvantaged' really make me flinch.

Does anyone else think that AAMC could drastically improve how they frame this question so we don't need to go through this internal turmoil anymore?
Click to expand...
I have nothing to add here but I just want to give you a Big hug if I ever knew you. Thats some rough stuff man . Make some lemon aids
 
Disadvantaged is a different category than adversity. AMCAS uses the disadvantaged essay to assign you a level of socioeconomic status (SES 01-05). If you grew up poor, or in a rural and medically under-served area, that counts as socioeconomically disadvantaged. If you were abused by your upper middle class family members, that is horrible and you have my sympathies, but it is considered adversity, not a disadvantage. If pertinent, consider putting it in your personal statement.
 
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Came to this thread thinking it was asking if being ugly is considered disadvantaged...
 
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