Dismissed from Pharmacy School

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xpharmdx

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I know there are similar posts, but every scenario is different, so I'm trying to gather more insight. I was recently dismissed from pharmacy school, I will omit the name of the school, for 'academic dishonesty'. Basically, my preceptor wanted me to work a weekend I was not available. I offered to work another weekend. But that was not the issue, I changed the date in an email and forwarded it to my preceptor and as a result I was dismissed from the College of Pharmacy. I was a good student and very involved and never thought it was that serious, but my appeal was denied and I need to figure out my next steps.

I was literally one year away from finishing my PharmD. What upsets me is that I still have all the student loans with no credentials. I was planning to start a Clinical Research Organization, but without the credentials I feel I'm missing a lot. Does anyone know schools I could potential transfer to? I know it's a case-by-case situation, but I don't even know which schools to contact. I'm also even considering finishing the PharmD in another country, since I'm seeking the credentials more so than the license. Any advice is welcome.
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You're likely toast here in the states....

Let this be a lesson to others...don't ever come close to the "dishonesty" line, it's a very steep cliff on the other side
 
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xpharmdx said:
I know there are similar posts, but every scenario is different, so I'm trying to gather more insight. I was recently dismissed from pharmacy school, I will omit the name of the school, for 'academic dishonesty'. Basically, my preceptor wanted me to work a weekend I was not available. I offered to work another weekend. But that was not the issue, I changed the date in an email and forwarded it to my preceptor and as a result I was dismissed from the College of Pharmacy. I was a good student and very involved and never thought it was that serious, but my appeal was denied and I need to figure out my next steps.

I was literally one year away from finishing my PharmD. What upsets me is that I still have all the student loans with no credentials. I was planning to start a Clinical Research Organization, but without the credentials I feel I'm missing a lot. Does anyone know schools I could potential transfer to? I know it's a case-by-case situation, but I don't even know which schools to contact. I'm also even considering finishing the PharmD in another country, since I'm seeking the credentials more so than the license. Any advice is welcome.
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How can you be dismissed for that? There has to be more to the story, right?
 
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That really sucks, I'm sorry to hear that you were kicked out, especially after 3 years of student loans. I would try to take the appeal a step higher than the COP if you think you have a decent case, like to the Provost of the university or Dean of Academic Affairs. Total removal from a program seems like a harsh consequence for a single bad decision
 
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That is a ludicrous reason to be booted from a school. I would absolutely appeal this to the highers-up at the university. I would certainly contact other pharmacy schools to see if transfer is possible.

Also, what is a "Clinical Research Organization"? That's a bit broad. What exactly are you aiming to do?
 
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Seems like a stupid reason to get kicked out over one incidence, but there is likely more to it.

Also, why would you change the date in an email, especially if they have their original email to reference by? Just work your required weekend and put in your hours. What's going to happen when your clinical rotations say "get here at 6am and stay until 6pm" from M-F with you working 60 hrs a week when 40 is your "max"? Just plug through it.
 
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IF this is the whole story...

1. Your preceptor is a ***** for ratting you out like that. That offense warrants extra workload and a grudge, not dismissal.
2. Does your school think they're ****ing Harvard or something?
3. I had classmates actually cheat and still graduate, yet you lost your appeal over a changed date?

Staying tuned for chapter 2
 
considering this poster has a conviction for possession of a controlled substance (per their own previous posts) - there is obviously more to the situation
 
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Did your school know about your troubled past? Maybe that was part of the reason you were dismissed.
 
Yeah, I can't know the OP's situation, but *usually* with these stories its more something like this:

"so I was supposed to work weekend A, but I had a big test the day before, so I was all stressed out and needed to relieve the stress, so I changed the date in the e-mail to make myself work the next weekend, and sent it back to my preceptor, so my old stoner buddy from high school came up for the weekend, so after shooting up some heroin, we went into this dive bar and were surprised to see one of my professors there, she was looking really hot, so I smacked her on the butt and she got all offended for no reason and said she would report me, and I started yelling about how that wasn't fair, and some nosy louseball ended up calling the cops, and I was arrested for causing a public disturbance, then the cop found heroin on me, so I'm being charged with that, so now my school is dismissing me for changing the date in the e-mail. I can't believe this. I make one error in judgement by changing the date and they are going to dismiss when I'm so close to graduation."
 
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I don't understand how you can change a date in an email...?
 
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I don't understand what he means either. Changed the date of the weekend he was supposed to work? Obviously that wouldn't work, the preceptor is going to know which weekend he wants you to work. Changed the date it was sent? What would be the point?
 
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xpharmdx said:
But that was not the issue, I changed the date in an email and forwarded it to my preceptor and as a result I was dismissed from the College of Pharmacy.
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I took it mean there was agreed upon rotation schedule (in the form of an email sent to the student), he changed the schedule that was included in the email and forwarded that back to her. "I didn't show up because it says right here that I was off weekend A and was supposed to work weekend B" or similar situation.
 
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Dred Pirate said:
considering this poster has a conviction for possession of a controlled substance (per their own previous posts) - there is obviously more to the situation
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If they let the student return after a controlled substance conviction, I'm supposing it was under the terms of a "double secret probation" a la Animal House.
double-secret-probation.jpg


And that changed date in the e-mail was all Dean Wormer needed to send the student on his/her way out the door.

Crikey; dude should have thanked his/her lucky stars they were allowed to stay after a drug arrest, and made sure all the t's were crossed and the i's dotted straight through to graduation. Nobody to blame except themselves.
 
297point1 said:
If they let the student return after a controlled substance conviction, I'm supposing it was under the terms of a "double secret probation" a la Animal House.
double-secret-probation.jpg


And that changed date in the e-mail was all Dean Wormer needed to send the student on his/her way out the door.

Crikey; dude should have thanked his/her lucky stars they were allowed to stay after a drug arrest, and made sure all the t's were crossed and the i's dotted straight through to graduation. Nobody to blame except themselves.
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the entitlement generation - nothing is my fault, I am owed everything despite me messing up. I am all for second chances and not ruining someone's life because of one mistake. Chances are there were multiple mistakes made on behalf of the OP - they have admitted to two - and when you look at their previous posts, excuses where made each time. There is MUCH more to this story which is evidenced by the fact they have not even responded to many people saying "there is more to the story"
 
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Appreciate all the responses. Of course there is more to the story. I have a conviction for marijuana possession in a state I have never lived or worked. The charge has been dropped and is not searchable. I am in a state where it is legal. The school was aware of the situation, as it had happened before pharmacy school. I am very involved at the university and have support from the faculty, making the final decision completely unexpected.

As far as being dismissed from school. I thought they weighted the previous incident; however, they stated this was not considered in the final decision. Thus, the decision was based solely on 'unethical behavior', specifically changing the dates in an email. If you really must know why, my family was coming into town, from another state and I wanted the time off.

To be completely honest I was treated unfairly in the situation. Regardless, I need to keep moving forward. I'm sure I can get letters from faculty, previous and present deans. But, I need to figure out a plan of action. After talking to some contacts in the industry, it seems my best option is to finish the degree.
 
xpharmdx said:
Appreciate all the responses. Of course there is more to the story. I have a conviction for marijuana possession in a state I have never lived or worked. The charge has been dropped and is not searchable. I am in a state where it is legal. The school was aware of the situation, as it had happened before pharmacy school. I am very involved at the university and have support from the faculty, making the final decision completely unexpected.

As far as being dismissed from school. I thought they weighted the previous incident; however, they stated this was not considered in the final decision. Thus, the decision was based solely on 'unethical behavior', specifically changing the dates in an email. If you really must know why, my family was coming into town, from another state and I wanted the time off.

To be completely honest I was treated unfairly in the situation. Regardless, I need to keep moving forward. I'm sure I can get letters from faculty, previous and present deans. But, I need to figure out a plan of action. After talking to some contacts in the industry, it seems my best option is to finish the degree.
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You need to get a lawyer if that is the case.
 
You did that just to spend time with family?? Family will be there years after you graduate. Its acceptable to ignore family members and go to rotations instead...even if they are visiting from out of state or out of country.
 
xpharmdx said:
Appreciate all the responses. Of course there is more to the story. I have a conviction for marijuana possession in a state I have never lived or worked. The charge has been dropped and is not searchable. I am in a state where it is legal. The school was aware of the situation, as it had happened before pharmacy school. I am very involved at the university and have support from the faculty, making the final decision completely unexpected.

As far as being dismissed from school. I thought they weighted the previous incident; however, they stated this was not considered in the final decision. Thus, the decision was based solely on 'unethical behavior', specifically changing the dates in an email. If you really must know why, my family was coming into town, from another state and I wanted the time off.

To be completely honest I was treated unfairly in the situation. Regardless, I need to keep moving forward. I'm sure I can get letters from faculty, previous and present deans. But, I need to figure out a plan of action. After talking to some contacts in the industry, it seems my best option is to finish the degree.
Click to expand...

Finish what degree? You got dismissed.
 
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People planning to start their own Organizations may have drug convictions, they may even be a bit lazy and dishonest, but one thing they almost never have is student loans. I think the school wasn't so impressed with your potential to overlook such obvious significant issues and concerns.
I don't see any way back into pharmacy for you. Risk>>>>>potential.
 
OP, that still doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't you just explain the situation to your preceptor and ask to work a different weekend? I can't imagine your preceptor would say no unless you are asking all the time to switch. And if you did ask, and your preceptor did say no, did you really think s/he wouldn't noticed the switched dates in the e-mail.
 
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BidingMyTime said:
OP, that still doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't you just explain the situation to your preceptor and ask to work a different weekend? I can't imagine your preceptor would say no unless you are asking all the time to switch. And if you did ask, and your preceptor did say no, did you really think s/he wouldn't noticed the switched dates in the e-mail.
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Op blew it....plain and simple

To all the professional students reading this, I will repeat. Never,ever,ever come close to anything that someone possibly might maybe consider dishonest. It can literally coat you your career.
 
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It was pretty underhanded of you to surreptitiously change the date, ditch the rotation and claim ignorance when your preceptor called you up on it. That is the very definition of dishonesty. And yet you say you were treated unfairly.

Considering your previous conviction of marijuana possession (a violation of federal law), your track record casts doubt on your future as a professional. If you knew a professional was known to do the things you did, would you easily trust that person? I would not put that person in charge of controlled substances at the very least.

I hate to bring up rules and regulations, but there's no excuse for what you did.
 
Were you not aware that email correspondence leaves an audit trail? I have a hard time believing that anyone would try to pull such a foolhardy stunt. Am I misunderstanding something? It seems like entire portions of the story have been left out
 
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sb247 said:
Op blew it....plain and simple

To all the professional students reading this, I will repeat. Never,ever,ever come close to anything that someone possibly might maybe consider dishonest. It can literally coat you your career.
Click to expand...

Professionals and professional students need to understand that we are held to a much higher standards than the general public. Our license can be easily taken away. Even if our license is place on probation, that would severely limit our employment opportunities.

We are also require to disclose any infraction, no matter how small we think it is. If we dont, then that can be used against us and we would put our license at risk.
 
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Sometimes it shocks me how P4 students undervalue their APPE experiences and don't realize that they rotate for a grade and their preceptors have the ability to fail them in their last year of school and either delay their graduation or have them not graduate at all. Getting through P3 year shouldn't be thought of as "I'm in the clear, I just need to show up and then get my PharmD next year" as if the degree is already earned and you're just waiting for it. Rotations aren't a class to breeze through, nor are they places you need to be dishonest in. Think it if more highly than if you were employed by them, because ultimately they likely have employment connections and are also there to grade you on performance. You wouldn't just "change" a work schedule, why would doing the same for an APPE be acceptable? You might not be getting paid, but you are getting evaluated. Blowing off rotations and purposefully having unprofessional conduct because you want to be lazy or breeze through isn't something I think preceptors should consider as acceptable. It's not "just a class" or a credit. I know many preceptors want to avoid failing people, and they may not think of themselves this way, but ultimately they are the final gatekeepers (well, besides board exams) of new pharmacists entering the profession.
 
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Hypothetically speaking, does the OP have a slight chance of attending a new pharmacy school as a P1? Definitely don't see any credits transferring over, but it's not difficult to imagine at least one money hungry administration accepting a pharmacy student with a questionable record. It's more tuition money for the admins with every right to kick this same student out right before graduation for whatever violation of ethics/student conduct.
 
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RxStudentatUB said:
Hypothetically speaking, does the OP have a slight chance of attending a new pharmacy school as a P1? Definitely don't see any credits transferring over, but it's not difficult to imagine at least one money hungry administration accepting a pharmacy student with a questionable record. It's more tuition money for the admins with every right to kick this same student out right before graduation for whatever violation of ethics/student conduct.
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Of course. If this doesn't go on criminal records or misdemeanor he can still get into another private school.
 
Son_Goku said:
Of course. If this doesn't go on criminal records or misdemeanor he can still get into another private school.
Click to expand...

Not likely: on-time graduation rate is a required metric to ACPE as well, and unlike post-graduation employment, this one must be posted on the school website. If anything, this metric is going to make schools less likely to give anyone a second chance.
 
xpharmdx said:
Appreciate all the responses. Of course there is more to the story. I have a conviction for marijuana possession in a state I have never lived or worked. The charge has been dropped and is not searchable. I am in a state where it is legal. The school was aware of the situation, as it had happened before pharmacy school. I am very involved at the university and have support from the faculty, making the final decision completely unexpected.

As far as being dismissed from school. I thought they weighted the previous incident; however, they stated this was not considered in the final decision. Thus, the decision was based solely on 'unethical behavior', specifically changing the dates in an email. If you really must know why, my family was coming into town, from another state and I wanted the time off.

To be completely honest I was treated unfairly in the situation. Regardless, I need to keep moving forward. I'm sure I can get letters from faculty, previous and present deans. But, I need to figure out a plan of action. After talking to some contacts in the industry, it seems my best option is to finish the degree.
Click to expand...

Well on the bright side, looks like you have additional time off to spend with your family.
 
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Whether it is fair treatment or not might depend on the change you made and what the email was. You just mention "changed the date on an email". That makes it sound like a one time, minor fibbing. However, it does matter what the nature of the email was. Was it a forwarded email that was originally sent by someone else or perhaps some official organization? If so, then you're wading into levels of forgery. If it was your own email and you just lied about some dates, then maybe that is not as bad. However, you said "changed" which implies that another date was there to begin with and also it was something that your preceptor could determine that it was wrong.

When I look at your messages that is what I am focused on. I want to see if you're open to being honest about the nature of what your being accused of. If you want people to give an honest opinion about your situation, then you can't sugar coat it by phrasing it in a benign manner. Let people decide for themselves how benign it was by just saying what you changed as that is the crux of what the school is using to kick you out. Doing otherwise and not being a bit more explicit about the criteria for your dismissal is only good for swaying people's opinion one way or the other. I assume that you're posting this on the internet to get some honest feedback on what this means for you. However, I don't know if anyone can really have an accurate opinion on it without knowing what the email change was.

Without knowing more, I guess you could say that the school was either lying about not considering the conviction or being overly harsh for single infraction. However, again that really does depend on the details of what the infraction was that they're basing their action on.
 
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This thread makes my head hurt. I can't believe people that are supposed to be somewhat intelligent would pull something off as changing a date in an email when it's really easy to pull up the original...I guess the OP could do like all the other people I've encountered that have cheated, lied, and failed is to get a lawyer.
 
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xpharmdx,

Time to start looking for a career alternative.

Best,

RxStudentUBaltimore
 
Just as a follow-up. I do already own a company and it's doing quite well. Do not judge a man solely from his mistakes. I am seeing some very negative remarks and it hurts my heart to know these are the people representing healthcare. Fail. And do it 1000x over again, it's the only way you will make it. Good luck to those falling in-line, you'll be working for us.
 
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xpharmdx said:
Just as a follow-up. I do already own a company and it's doing quite well. Do not judge a man solely from his mistakes. I am seeing some very negative remarks and it hurts my heart to know these are the people representing healthcare. Fail. And do it 1000x over again, it's the only way you will make it. Good luck to those falling in-line, you'll be working for us.
Click to expand...

Pot meet kettle.
 
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What do you expect from us? You got caught doing something stupid twice. Who knows what else you have done.
 
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You would've been better off calling in sick, no one questions a bad stomach. Changing the date on a schedule that your preceptor created shows such a base level of dishonesty and hubris that they probably fear what you would do in a situation where patient safety could be compromised. As for where you could finish your degree I would start contacting some of the new schools that are taking anyone with a pulse and a government check.
 
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I don't get why he wouldn't just call out sick either. Seems the easiest way to handle that situation.
 
xpharmdx said:
Just as a follow-up. I do already own a company and it's doing quite well. Do not judge a man solely from his mistakes. I am seeing some very negative remarks and it hurts my heart to know these are the people representing healthcare. Fail. And do it 1000x over again, it's the only way you will make it. Good luck to those falling in-line, you'll be working for us.
Click to expand...
Well that was spiteful. The bottom line is that you have to deal with the consequences of your actions. That's life man. Don't hate the ones who made it just because you didn't.
 
xpharmdx said:
Just as a follow-up. I do already own a company and it's doing quite well. Do not judge a man solely from his mistakes. I am seeing some very negative remarks and it hurts my heart to know these are the people representing healthcare. Fail. And do it 1000x over again, it's the only way you will make it. Good luck to those falling in-line, you'll be working for us.
Click to expand...
Can I come work for you?
You seem like you'd be a good boss.
 
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user3 said:
If the OP can find instances of other students caught in acts of dishonesty but that were not dismissed, he/she could make a case that their dismissal was capricious.
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Due process failures are far easier.

The drug offense can be considered a mitigating factor; the OP's lawyer would have to find other dishonesty cases that were overlooked in a student with a history of drug offenses.

One thing I've learned: students never never never tell other people about the special treatment they might have received when they made a mistake and were facing discipline. They are usually so ashamed of their missteps, they do everything in their power to keep their mistake - and the special treatment they received - very quiet. [/sarcasm]
 
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297point1 said:
Due process failures are far easier.

The drug offense can be considered a mitigating factor; the OP's lawyer would have to find other dishonesty cases that were overlooked in a student with a history of drug offenses.

One thing I've learned: students never never never tell other people about the special treatment they might have received when they made a mistake and were facing discipline. They are usually so ashamed of their missteps, they do everything in their power to keep their mistake - and the special treatment they received - very quiet. [/sarcasm]
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OP stated the drug offense was not considered in their decision.

Is it more likely than unlikely that other students were known to have committed dishonest acts of comparable or greater severity, and did not get dismissed? Even without evidence, I am inclined to think yes, which then makes me question whether this person was truly treated fairly.
 
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