Dismissed from SGU, re-starting with new Masters and MCAT

[Mahasashi]

So, at the end of August 2014, I failed my 4th term at SGU. I tried to go back to SGU, but they said the decision was final. For a year I was picking myself up, I was volunteering at a cardiology department and tried going back to school for a masters or something, no one would take me with a dismissal. This fall, I got into Drexel's Biomedical Sciences program as a non-matriculant, and when I did well they changed me to matriculant. I am now doing research there, and I have a 4.0. I retook my MCAT in the year I was dismissed and earned a 33. I plan on shadowing DO doctors, and am interested in going to osteopathic medical school. I also plan on volunteering abroad. I just want to know if I have a chance at all of getting back into an MD or DO school. I had one bad semester at SGU, and I had issues in my personal life during then. It's not the norm for me. Was it my fault? Yes, but I have always believed in redemption with actions, and I want to know if anyone here knows anything about chances after dismissal if I have redone all these things.

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[22031 Alum]

I'm sorry, but I don't think your odds are great. You should be thinking long and hard about non-physician careers you might be interested in.

 

[CBFutureHelper14]

So, at the end of August 2014, I failed my 4th term at SGU. I tried to go back to SGU, but they said the decision was final. For a year I was picking myself up, I was volunteering at a cardiology department and tried going back to school for a masters or something, no one would take me with a dismissal. This fall, I got into Drexel's Biomedical Sciences program as a non-matriculant, and when I did well they changed me to matriculant. I am now doing research there, and I have a 4.0. I retook my MCAT in the year I was dismissed and earned a 33. I plan on shadowing DO doctors, and am interested in going to osteopathic medical school. I also plan on volunteering abroad. I just want to know if I have a chance at all of getting back into an MD or DO school. I had one bad semester at SGU, and I had issues in my personal life during then. It's not the norm for me. Was it my fault? Yes, but I have always believed in redemption with actions, and I want to know if anyone here knows anything about chances after dismissal if I have redone all these things.

Ok so you are in Biomed Sciences and doing well. But you really want to do med? I would say go for it. Its all about your morivation to do medicine in my opinion.

 

[Bancrofti]

You should be fine. I know of people that failed out of SGU and matriculated to DO schools thereafter without putting in the work that you did (maybe their pre-admission application was better though). I don't think you should have a problem if you keep up the work and effort. Even try applying to Drexel Allopathic. For you, the decision is just whether you want to go through this process all over again still and do you truly think you're capable of sustaining your recent focus for another 3-4 years at a more rigorous level, even if some life situation should come up.

 

[GrapesofRath]

It's not impossible in several years if you continue to be highly productive, show academic excellence and have a compelling story that a DO school might be willing to take a chance on you down the road. However, this is HARDLY some sort of certainity and there is a real chance you could do everything right htese next few years and still not find a DO school willing to bite. It's a high risk approach which has a clear chance of not panning out. Good luck.

 

[QofQuimica]

You need to talk to some med schools where you might want to apply, explain your situation, and see what they say. Maybe start with Drexel's Admissions Dean since you already have contacts and a linkage/good academic record there. Understand though that you likely have a very uphill battle; I would guess that most US med schools (MD or DO) would not be interested in taking someone who has already flunked out of a Caribbean school. However, every school will have its own policies about this. And you only need one to say yes. Best of luck to you.

 

[Law2Doc]

...Understand though that you likely have a very uphill battle; I would guess that most US med schools (MD or DO) would not be interested in taking someone who has already flunked out of a Caribbean school...

To be blunt: The best data in terms of how you will fare in med school is how you already fared in med school. Against a lower threshold of competition no less.
I think the circumstances surrounding your dismissal (if reasonable), and putting a lot of years between then and now are going to make some difference, but if I was a US adcom I sure would have a hard time giving you a seat over a similarly credentialed traditional grad who has never failed anything. Good luck but I agree with those who say thinking about a plan B might be advisable.

 

[Mad Jack]

It is very unlikely another school will take a chance on you. Good luck though.

 

[themockjock]

I would say go for it. Its all about your morivation to do medicine in my opinion.

I am incredibly motivated to play in the NBA. but I'm 5'8". Should I still keep showing up to the Cavs training camp and beg them to take me because I've been working really hard on hitting free throws?

 

[CBFutureHelper14]

I am incredibly motivated to play in the NBA. but I'm 5'8". Should I still keep showing up to the Cavs training camp and beg them to take me because I've been working really hard on hitting free throws?

Heck if that is what you feel like doing. Its your life.

 

[themockjock]

Heck if that is what you feel like doing. Its your life.

Since you obviously missed the point... it's irresponsible to advise someone to expend significant amounts of time, money, and emotional energy into an endeavor in which they have close to a 0% chance of being successful.

For a little reductio ad absurdum: If someone who lost their hands in a horrific childhood ez-bake oven accident asked me, as a surgical resident, their chances of being a successful surgeon, I would ask them how they felt about radiology, not advise them to try tying suture with their toes.

 

[CBFutureHelper14]

Since you obviously missed the point... it's irresponsible to advise someone to expend significant amounts of time, money, and emotional energy into an endeavor in which they have close to a 0% chance of being successful.

For a little reductio ad absurdum: If someone who lost their hands in a horrific childhood ez-bake oven accident asked me, as a surgical resident, their chances of being a successful surgeon, I would ask them how they felt about radiology, not advise them to try tying suture with their toes.

The OP is doing well in Biomed Sciences, so why can't they do med if they want? Their masters may not matter to med admissions, but they could go back and do science prereqs if need be.

 

[Law2Doc]

I am incredibly motivated to play in the NBA. but I'm 5'8". Should I still keep showing up to the Cavs training camp and beg them to take me because I've been working really hard on hitting free throws?

the right comparison is someone 5'8" who already washed out from an Italian league... Having the washout is the problem, not the stature. There have been short people in the NBA.

 

[Law2Doc]

The OP is doing well in Biomed Sciences, so why can't they do med if they want? Their masters may not matter to med admissions, but they could go back and do science prereqs if need be.

It's not about what they want, it's about what a med school adcom will look past. There are lots of people with smaller things in their background than failing out of med school who don't get into med school. It's a very competitive process with limited seats. Look at it like a liver transplant -- does the guy who already destroyed one liver transplant on tequila get another before others?

 

[CBFutureHelper14]

It's not about what they want, it's about what a med school adcom will look past. There are lots of people with smaller things in their background than failing out of med school who don't get into med school. It's a very competitive process with limited seats. Look at it like a liver transplant -- does the guy who already destroyed one liver transplant on tequila get another before others?

So they already went to med school and failed out? The OP didnt say that, unless I read it wrong

 

[22031 Alum]

So they already went to med school and failed out? The OP didnt say that, unless I read it wrong

SGU is a Caribbean med school. So yes, OP has already failed out of one school.

 

[Law2Doc]

So they already went to med school and failed out? The OP didnt say that, unless I read it wrong

SGU is an offshore med school.

 

[CBFutureHelper14]

SGU is a Caribbean med school. So yes, OP has already failed out of one school.

Oh ok. But alot of people up here say Carribean is lack luster. Is that why so many of you all are discouraging the OP from trying again?

 

[Law2Doc]

Oh ok. But alot of people up here say Carribean is lack luster. Is that why so many of you all are discouraging the OP from trying again?

Caribbean should be ones LAST resort to get into medicine, after US routes don't pan out. I don't know what you mean by "lack luster" but basically a bunch of late bloomers are on an island competing against each other to be the 25% to get a residency slot. If you fail out from there, generally you have too many strikes against you to make it in this career.

I didn't make up the rules. But if you aren't familiar with offshore schools you ought not be advising OP in what he can accomplish.

 

[itsogre]

There's someone in my class who left a medical school abroad (not in Caribbean though, but same idea) and is now an MS1 at an allo states school. not sure if they were dismissed though (probably not)

33MCAT/good GPA/Drexel research gives you good chances at Drexel imo
also brand-new osteo schools should give you interviews based on your MCAT

good luck

 

[GrapesofRath]

There's someone in my class who left a medical school abroad (not in Caribbean though, but same idea) and is now an MS1 at an allo states school. not sure if they were dismissed though (probably not)

33MCAT/good GPA/Drexel research gives you good chances at Drexel imo
also brand-new osteo schools should give you interviews based on your MCAT

good luck

I'll add the key to remember is there is a reason someone ends up in the Caribbean in the first place. We are talking about someone who's academic and non academic record was poor enough to keep them out of the US before this whole flunking out of the Caribbean med school red flag occured. It's one thing if we were talking about some 3.9/35 candidate who just had one horrendous year but their whole life was a strong student and had strong non academic credentials. We arent talking about that at all. In fact we are talking about the exact opposite.

And I say this as someone who knows more than one person who has dropped out the Caribbean re-invented thesmelves and found a DO school to take them 5 or so years later. Some of these newer DO schools will take on people with some colored or questionable pasts. I probably came across as more optimistic as most of the posts in this thread. But as of right now, the only thing the OP has going that is US medical school caliber is that MCAT score(which was retaken). There is alot to do, and time to pass before medical school becomes any kind of semi-feasible option again. If they want to pursue that route and take the chance, more power to them. But it is a real risk, and there is a real chance even if they perform well academically and non academically these next several years they still wont find a DO school willing to overlook their past. It's just an enormous gamble and the OP should realize that and the consequences of hte positives and negatives of it. Comparing it to a completely different scenario which you were alluding to isnt really helping the OP face the reality of their own specific situation.

 

[22031 Alum]

Come on Grapes, it's the SDN way. No need to give realistic assessments when the nice thing to do is encourage with anecdotes.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Come on Grapes, it's the SDN way. No need to give realistic assessments when the nice thing to do is encourage with anecdotes.

I clearly have much to learn. I'll start doing google searches till I find someone accepted to Harvard with a sub 25 MCAT and post it ASAP. Start re-writing all the SDN dogmas one anecdote at a time.

 

[itsogre]

I'll add the key to remember is there is a reason someone ends up in the Caribbean in the first place. We are talking about someone who's academic and non academic record was poor enough to keep them out of the US before this whole flunking out of the Caribbean med school red flag occured. It's one thing if we were talking about some 3.9/35 candidate who just had one horrendous year but their whole life was a strong student and had strong non academic credentials. We arent talking about that at all. In fact we are talking about the exact opposite.

And I say this as someone who knows more than one person who has dropped out the Caribbean re-invented thesmelves and found a DO school to take them 5 or so years later. Some of these newer DO schools will take on people with some colored or questionable pasts. I probably came across as more optimistic as most of the posts in this thread. But as of right now, the only thing the OP has going that is US medical school caliber is that MCAT score(which was retaken). There is alot to do, and time to pass before medical school becomes any kind of semi-feasible option again. If they want to pursue that route and take the chance, more power to them. But it is a real risk, and there is a real chance even if they perform well academically and non academically these next several years they still wont find a DO school willing to overlook their past. It's just an enormous gamble and the OP should realize that and the consequences of hte positives and negatives of it. Comparing it to a completely different scenario which you were alluding to isnt really helping the OP face the reality of their own specific situation.

MBS 4.0/33 on the MCAT is pretty good - I don't think OP has a studying/knowledge deficit. Maybe something happened on the island, and the OP couldn't hold up to pressure. I went to one of SGU info sessions when I was a freshman in college, and even the spokesperson/walking advertisement for SGU said the is a lack of support on the island and it's easy to make mistakes.

again, OP said they had issues in their personal life at SGU. Their academics since then have been above average over a sustained period of time. I'd say they should apply if practicing medicine (and repaying their SGU loans lol) is something they feel strongly about.

if they get across the board rejections I guess I'll be proven wrong.

 

[Law2Doc]

MBS 4.0/33 on the MCAT is pretty good - I don't think OP has a studying/knowledge deficit. Maybe something happened on the island, and the OP couldn't hold up to pressure. I went to one of SGU info sessions when I was a freshman in college, and even the spokesperson/walking advertisement for SGU said the is a lack of support on the island and it's easy to make mistakes.

again, OP said they had issues in their personal life at SGU. Their academics since then have been above average over a sustained period of time. I'd say they should apply if practicing medicine (and repaying their SGU loans lol) is something they feel strongly about.

You could blame it on the island and personal issues, but then you are ignoring the whole fact that they had credentials that landed them in the Caribbean to start with. Unfortunately there's more of a track record than one bad semester.

 

[GrapesofRath]

MBS 4.0/33 on the MCAT is pretty good - I don't think OP has a studying/knowledge deficit. Maybe something happened on the island, and the OP couldn't hold up to pressure. I went to one of SGU info sessions when I was a freshman in college, and even the spokesperson/walking advertisement for SGU said the is a lack of support on the island and it's easy to make mistakes.

again, OP said they had issues in their personal life at SGU. Their academics since then have been above average over a sustained period of time. I'd say they should apply if practicing medicine (and repaying their SGU loans lol) is something they feel strongly about.

L2D already addressed a key thing but I'll also say it's important to realize the implications of what we are saying when "It'll take several years before you become a viable candidate".

If the OP doesnt apply until 2020 that's 4-5 years of life where they will spend money taking expensive classes and almost certainly be working low paying jobs, all in the hopes that some DO school will gamble on them. It's basically 5 years of spending significant amount of money, gaining little, and having your life's future/direction entirely up in the air. It's a very risky approach and way to live life. If in the next 4-5 years the OP decides to cut their losses and say go to nursing school, pharmacy school, or try to get a job in say business, that's 4-5 years where they could hypothetically a) getting into nursing school, graduating in 2 years, and having multiple years of work experience makin 50+k. b) getting into pharmacy school, graduating and ready to make 80+k. c) Working their way up the business world amongst many other possible examples. 4-5 years is alot of lost time, alot of lost opportunity. That amount of time is plenty to reinvent themselves and thrive in a new career and carry on with their life. If they decide theyd rather spend that time basically not making an net income trying to see if a DO school will take a chance on them, that's their decision. But the magnitude of the decision really has to be considered here. It's just an incredible amount at stake, especially for someone who's likely at the early to mid 20's stage of their life which I bet the OP is.

 

[Law2Doc]

L2D already addressed a key thing but I'll also say it's important to realize the implications of what we are saying when "It'll take several years before you become a viable candidate".

If the OP doesnt apply until 2020 that's 4-5 years of life where they will spend money taking expensive classes and almost certainly be working low paying jobs, all in the hopes that some DO school will gamble on them. It's basically 5 years of spending significant amount of money, gaining little, and having your life's future/direction entirely up in the air. It's a very risky approach and way to live life. If in the next 4-5 years the OP decides to cut their losses and say go to nursing school, pharmacy school, or try to get a job in say business, that's 4-5 years where they could hypothetically a) getting into nursing school, graduating in 2 years, and having multiple years of work experience makin 50+k. b) getting into pharmacy school, graduating and ready to make 80+k. c) Working their way up the business world amongst many other possible examples. 4-5 years is alot of lost time, alot of lost opportunity. That amount of time is plenty to reinvent themselves and thrive in a new career and carry on with their life. If they decide theyd rather spend that time basically not making an net income trying to see if a DO school will take a chance on them, that's their decision. But the magnitude of the decision really has to be considered here. It's just an incredible amount at stake, especially for someone who's likely at the early to mid 20's stage of their life which I bet the OP is.

Of course a lot of us know people who spent their 20s working at the local fast food joint while hoping their band got its big break, so it's not all that much worse than that.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Of course a lot of us know people who spent their 20s working at the local fast food joint while hoping their band got its big break, so it's not all that much worse than that.

Well we all know for everyone of those people for whom that plan worked out perfectly, there were many more for whom it never did.

But I agree with your general idea. If the OP wants to try to make a run at a DO school, they can go ahead and go for it. It's just all about realizing the consequences that could come from it, both positive and negative. Nothing wrong with working in that fast food joint for a little while post-grad while you try and figure out your plan, it's about what that plan is that comes after and how feasible that really is which is what matters.

 

[Mahasashi]

Im reading all the responses, and just wanted to add one bit of info. In my undergrad, I didn't know about DO schools and didn't apply. My GPA was a 3.3 and MCAT was a 31. I wasn't the top of my class, but I was decent. That's the full spectrum of my academia before SGU.

 

[breezy16]

Im reading all the responses, and just wanted to add one bit of info. In my undergrad, I didn't know about DO schools and didn't apply. My GPA was a 3.3 and MCAT was a 31. I wasn't the top of my class, but I was decent. That's the full spectrum of my academia before SGU.

Wait, you applied to SGU with a 31 MCAT?
Did you not know what you were getting into? That shows very, very poor knowledge of your field / medical schools. A 3.3 isn't a huge death sentence, especially at some state schools.
I want to bang my head into the wall atm.

 

[Law2Doc]

Im reading all the responses, and just wanted to add one bit of info. In my undergrad, I didn't know about DO schools and didn't apply. My GPA was a 3.3 and MCAT was a 31. I wasn't the top of my class, but I was decent. That's the full spectrum of my academia before SGU.

Im not sure if that makes it better or worse. It doesn't show the pattern of failure we were suggesting. But as mentioned applying Caribbean with decent numbers might suggest poor judgment, and getting owned by the 2.9/25 crowd who didn't get thrown out doesn't look so great either.

 

[22031 Alum]

Im reading all the responses, and just wanted to add one bit of info. In my undergrad, I didn't know about DO schools and didn't apply. My GPA was a 3.3 and MCAT was a 31. I wasn't the top of my class, but I was decent. That's the full spectrum of my academia before SGU.

Unfortunately that doesn't really help your case. Those credentials basically make it obvious that you made a poor decision out of haste with no due diligence/research into alternatives. Add flunking out to that, and you're not looking like a great candidate even with God-like performance in the Masters. But maybe some admins would see past that, and all you need is one school to give you a chance. I still think finding a Plan B would be a more prudent decision.

 

[Chimichica]

You could blame it on the island and personal issues, but then you are ignoring the whole fact that they had credentials that landed them in the Caribbean to start with. Unfortunately there's more of a track record than one bad semester.

Excuse me but there are PLENTY of reasons people go to non state side schools. It's SDN folks that have it in their heads that the ONLY reason to attend offshore schools is due to lack of academic excellence. Remove that one POV and who wouldn't want to go to a school that's on a island. I've been there for med camp and I know a couple professors who teach stateside and are from there. Your one track mind on how to get in a school is incorrect. If we all thought like you alot of progress in general would never happen. Example, not too long ago being over 30 and starting school masters or otherwise considered taboo. That is all OP, give em hell when you get accepted. The only one who can stop you from trying is yourself. While, no, an incapable person may not be able to achieve the desired outcome; the OP seems more than capable enough to do the work.

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[Chimichica]

Also, it's a good thing we have personal statements to explain extremes in our academia...

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[Mad Jack]

Excuse me but there are PLENTY of reasons people go to non state side schools. It's SDN folks that have it in their heads that the ONLY reason to attend offshore schools is due to lack of academic excellence. Remove that one POV and who wouldn't want to go to a school that's on a island. I've been there for med camp and I know a couple professors who teach stateside and are from there. Your one track mind on how to get in a school is incorrect. If we all thought like you alot of progress in general would never happen. Example, not too long ago being over 30 and starting school masters or otherwise considered taboo. That is all OP, give em hell when you get accepted. The only one who can stop you from trying is yourself. While, no, an incapable person may not be able to achieve the desired outcome; the OP seems more than capable enough to do the work.

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I don't think you understand the magnitude of a red flag that medical school dismissal is.

As to, "who wouldn't want to go to school on an island," the answer is "people that want to match in the extremely competitive environment that is the future."

 

[Law2Doc]

Excuse me but there are PLENTY of reasons people go to non state side schools. It's SDN folks that have it in their heads that the ONLY reason to attend offshore schools is due to lack of academic excellence. Remove that one POV and who wouldn't want to go to a school that's on a island. I've been there for med camp and I know a couple professors who teach stateside and are from there. Your one track mind on how to get in a school is incorrect. If we all thought like you alot of progress in general would never happen. Example, not too long ago being over 30 and starting school masters or otherwise considered taboo. That is all OP, give em hell when you get accepted. The only one who can stop you from trying is yourself. While, no, an incapable person may not be able to achieve the desired outcome; the OP seems more than capable enough to do the work.

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As the prior poster suggested, the offshore path is an infinitely harder path from which to obtain a desirable US residency in the current climate. High attrition, low matching -- it's just a bad idea. Today you only go there if you can't get into a US school or you make a huge error in judgment. The whole "not too long ago" statement you made is irrelevant as "not too long ago" (a few decades back) going offshore was much much much more high yield than it is now.

As I said above -- I didn't make these rules so blaming it on my "one track mind" doesn't win you any points

 

[DrMidlife]

Excuse me but there are PLENTY of reasons people go to non state side schools. It's SDN folks that have it in their heads that the ONLY reason to attend offshore schools is due to lack of academic excellence. Remove that one POV and who wouldn't want to go to a school that's on a island. I've been there for med camp and I know a couple professors who teach stateside and are from there. Your one track mind on how to get in a school is incorrect. If we all thought like you alot of progress in general would never happen. Example, not too long ago being over 30 and starting school masters or otherwise considered taboo. That is all OP, give em hell when you get accepted. The only one who can stop you from trying is yourself. While, no, an incapable person may not be able to achieve the desired outcome; the OP seems more than capable enough to do the work.

It doesn't matter how many reasons people have to go to Carib schools. Wanting to live near the beach is a great reason. Wanting to save money is a great reason. Wanting to not lose practice years. Knowing somebody who made it through. Doesn't matter why you want to go.

What matters is what's most likely to happen if you choose to go Carib.

It's likely you'll be in the bottom half or two thirds of the class that gets dismissed before Step 1. The business plan of a Carib school depends on the majority of the class not needing to be supported in clinical rotations. They literally can't place all 250+ of the starting class at clinical sites. The Carib (and other offshore) schools have very tenuous, very expensive, very controversial relationships with a very small number of US clinical sites. You may think you can just ask to do your clinical rotations at a site near home. Nope. You may think you don't have to worry about this stuff. Wrong.

And let's say you get through med school in the Carib and get what you need out of the various clinical rotation scenarios. Then you are in the match gamble. I don't need to say a word about this - you can find everything you need to know at nrmp.org.

You really need to talk to people who made it through Carib into residency, and hear the story from them. How many people were in their class at the start, how many are in it now? How long did it take to get a residency, and how did they handle the gap year(s) and their student loans? How many residencies did they apply to, how many interviews did they get, and were any of the programs on their match list anything like what they wanted?

My med school happens to host a number of residencies that take Carib grads and FMGs. I ask lots of those residents lots of questions. Can't just ask one or two people, because most residents never cared how many people were in their class at the beginning or how many made it to graduation. It's an amorphous swarm. You can infer some of the data by looking at the SGU/Ross/AUA match lists, with the understanding that each year's match list includes multiple cumulative graduating classes.

The point here isn't that there are successful Carib grads. The point is how many additional obstacles to success you face by going to a Carib school.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Gurby]

It doesn't matter how many reasons people have to go to Carib schools. Wanting to live near the beach is a great reason. Wanting to save money is a great reason. Wanting to not lose practice years. Knowing somebody who made it through. Doesn't matter why you want to go.

What matters is what's most likely to happen if you choose to go Carib.

It's likely you'll be in the bottom half or two thirds of the class that gets dismissed before Step 1. The business plan of a Carib school depends on the majority of the class not needing to be supported in clinical rotations. They literally can't place all 250+ of the starting class at clinical sites. The Carib (and other offshore) schools have very tenuous, very expensive, very controversial relationships with a very small number of US clinical sites. You may think you can just ask to do your clinical rotations at a site near home. Nope. You may think you don't have to worry about this stuff. Wrong.

And let's say you get through med school in the Carib and get what you need out of the various clinical rotation scenarios. Then you are in the match gamble. I don't need to say a word about this - you can find everything you need to know at nrmp.org.

You really need to talk to people who made it through Carib into residency, and hear the story from them. How many people were in their class at the start, how many are in it now? How long did it take to get a residency, and how did they handle the gap year(s) and their student loans? How many residencies did they apply to, how many interviews did they get, and were any of the programs on their match list anything like what they wanted?

My med school happens to host a number of residencies that take Carib grads and FMGs. I ask lots of those residents lots of questions. Can't just ask one or two people, because most residents never cared how many people were in their class at the beginning or how many made it to graduation. It's an amorphous swarm. You can infer some of the data by looking at the SGU/Ross/AUA match lists, with the understanding that each year's match list includes multiple cumulative graduating classes.

The point here isn't that there are successful Carib grads. The point is how many additional obstacles to success you face by going to a Carib school.

Best of luck to you.

The hero SDN needs, but maybe not the one it deserves.

 

[GreenDuck12]

The OP went to a Caribbean medical school, which is not advisable as they are for-profit/have low residency placements/deliberately weed out their study body to avoid arranging residency placements. I'm curious is the third part (i.e. high attrition rates in a biased setting) would be considered by ADCOMs? This is, perhaps, being overly generous to the amount of time and ADCOM would spend considering a student.

Regardless, OP, it does not sound as though there is much support for the idea of going from Carib to DO after less than stellar grades. The vast majority of posters have said it may be an extremely difficult/impossible to obstacle to overcome. I'm pulling for you. If I were in your shoes, I would evaluate my options and set a date at which it is no longer worthwhile to pursue the medical career. Now, this is me, not you, and I am a fairly pragmatic individual when it comes to career goals. I admire the folks who gun for it with all pistons firing despite obstacles but I'm not one of them. Best of luck to you.

 

[Bancrofti]

Wait, you applied to SGU with a 31 MCAT?
Did you not know what you were getting into? That shows very, very poor knowledge of your field / medical schools. A 3.3 isn't a huge death sentence, especially at some state schools.
I want to bang my head into the wall atm.

There is a big misunderstanding in what it takes to get into SGU on these board it seems. The average matriculant GPA was around a 3.4 and the average MCAT was around a 28 when I applied, from what I recall. Obviously stats that won't get the average student into a US Allo program, but not horrendous. A majority of students would be competitive if they did a post-bacc or retook the MCAT. I can't speak for other carib schools. That's why I personally think OP has a legit chance. He/she already started retaking courses, has a 4.0, and improved on the MCAT score. By continuing with further courses/doing well along with doing some DO shadowing, I don't see why he/she would have a ton of trouble. Granted, OP would have to apply broadly as there will be some places that will flat out reject you if they find out about a failure, but it won't be everywhere. Further, OP is doing work at a school at a program this considered to be lower tier and this obviously presents the opportunity for networking. Not everyone is trying to go to Harvard or whatever the Harvard of DO programs is.

 

[breezy16]

There is a big misunderstanding in what it takes to get into SGU on these board it seems. The average matriculant GPA was around a 3.4 and the average MCAT was around a 28 when I applied, from what I recall. Obviously stats that won't get the average student into a US Allo program, but not horrendous. A majority of students would be competitive if they did a post-bacc or retook the MCAT. I can't speak for other carib schools. That's why I personally think OP has a legit chance. He/she already started retaking courses, has a 4.0, and improved on the MCAT score. By continuing with further courses/doing well along with doing some DO shadowing, I don't see why he/she would have a ton of trouble. Granted, OP would have to apply broadly as there will be some places that will flat out reject you if they find out about a failure, but it won't be everywhere. Further, OP is doing work at a school at a program this considered to be lower tier and this obviously presents the opportunity for networking. Not everyone is trying to go to Harvard or whatever the Harvard of DO programs is.

No, I'm questioning her/his judgement considering a 31 is an average accepted student to allopathic schools. I'm questioning whether they have IAs or criminal charges. I'm questioning what in your right mind are you doing at one of the most difficult graduate programs at a scammy institution with a decent GPA and a good Mcat? Beaches and hoes? That's not a colleague I'd want, that's what I'm questioning. Also, a 28 is like what, a 66th percentile ? Not encouraging for a median. Then they were dismissed. Tells me poor judgement/choices overall.

 

[Goro]

Ahh, nothing like the smell of ignorance in the morning!


The pool of US applicants from the Caribbean is viewed differently by Program Directors. The DDx for a Caribbean grad is pretty off-putting: bad judgment, bad advice, egotism, gullibility, overbearing parents, inability to delay gratification, IA's, legal problems, weak research skills, high risk behavior. This is not to say that all of them still have the quality that drew them into this situation. There is just no way to know which ones they are. Some PD's are in a position where they need to, or can afford to take risks too! So, some do get interviews.


Bad grades and scores are the least of the deficits from a PD's standpoint. A strong academic showing in a Caribbean medical school does not erase this stigma. It fact it increases the perception that the reason for the choice was on the above-mentioned list!

Just about everyone from a Caribbean school has one or more of these problems and PDs know it. That's why their grads are the last choice even with a high Step 1 score.

There was a time when folks whose only flaw was being a late bloomer went Carib, but those days are gone. There are a number of spots at US schools with grade replacement for these candidates.

And for you, Chimi, a little light reading:

https://milliondollarmistake.wordpress.com/

http://www.tameersiddiqui.com/medical-school-at-sgu

Excuse me but there are PLENTY of reasons people go to non state side schools. It's SDN folks that have it in their heads that the ONLY reason to attend offshore schools is due to lack of academic excellence. Remove that one POV and who wouldn't want to go to a school that's on a island. I've been there for med camp and I know a couple professors who teach stateside and are from there. Your one track mind on how to get in a school is incorrect. If we all thought like you alot of progress in general would never happen. Example, not too long ago being over 30 and starting school masters or otherwise considered taboo. That is all OP, give em hell when you get accepted. The only one who can stop you from trying is yourself. While, no, an incapable person may not be able to achieve the desired outcome; the OP seems more than capable enough to do the work.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[GrapesofRath]

There is a big misunderstanding in what it takes to get into SGU on these board it seems. The average matriculant GPA was around a 3.4 and the average MCAT was around a 28 when I applied, from what I recall. Obviously stats that won't get the average student into a US Allo program, but not horrendous. A majority of students would be competitive if they did a post-bacc or retook the MCAT. I can't speak for other carib schools. That's why I personally think OP has a legit chance.

These self reported stats from Caribbean schools are absolutely worthless. Zero credibility. Zero meaning. No value at all. Zilch.

Caribbean schools are masterminds at manipulating statistics, stretching truths and doing anything in their power to deceive naive 20 and 21 year olds by concoting all kinds of numbers to fit a certain narrative they want to sell. Dont put any worth in any statistic from a Carribean school from the mouths of the schools themselves. Period.

Caribbean schools excel in this sort of manipulation and twisting of facts. It's what they excel on, why their business model has worked for so long. Blindly touting "Well SGU told me our MCAT avg is a 28 or 29" is just highlighting how these programs stay in business.

All these statistics Caribbean schools tout have zero credibility, arent verified through any system or anybody and are coming directly from the mouths of people infamous for twisting any fact, outright omitting facts and doing any kind of manipulation you can think of to mislead premeds and to sell the narrative they want.

 

[DrMidlife]

You could argue that it's just as morally questionable for US MD and DO schools to take naive 20-21 year olds and sign them up for $250k to $500k in student debt, locked into a field long before they have any idea who they are or how they like to work. Edit: we honestly have no idea how these debt levels are going to play out. PSLF's first payout isn't until 2017. (The AAMC has a tuition/fees history page. Just found it. I'm kind of surprised that tuition/fees have only doubled since 1995.)

A corporation that makes a profit is doing what it's designed to do. Generally any education option that gets advertised is profit-generating. Including Drexel & ASU, which are presumably non-profit orgs. Ross has some goddamn gorgeous posters.

My point is that any "evil" intentions at Carib schools are only maybe 25% more "evil" than those of US MD and DO schools. (Except LECOM. LECOM is decidedly not evil with respect to keeping costs low. And ECU. And some others. Certainly not my school. $90k COA/yr.)

 

[GrapesofRath]

It's the age old problem medicine will always face really. There's simply no way for most, regardless of how many family members are doctors, regardless of how many doctors they shadow, scribe for or hospitals they work in, to really get a feel if medicine is what is really best for them.

My issue isnt really with the Caribbean schools, it's with the people who fall for their sales pitch and dont do their own homework. There are far far far shadier things in the world of business than what Caribbean schools do. At least 1/3 or so of the people who enter get to pursue their dream and become doctors; 250k for a 1/3 chance at what's advertised are far better than what many businesses which demand 250k from you will give you. Manipulation of statistics and misleading applicants is not something US medical schools are immune to either, although it certainly doesnt happen to anywhere close to the degree and nature that those in the islands do.

The issue more and what I was getting at is highlighting how foolish it is to take anything a Caribbean school says at face value. If the "for profit" doesnt immeadiately telegraph there's an agenda behind what a for profit organization is claiming when they try and sell this idea of doing what's best for you the buyer, that's on you completely. I dont really have a problem with the Caribbean schools selling their product; it's your job to see what the product is.

Manipulation, twisting of facts, deception, in many forms of business and finance is what the lifestyle and job demands for optimal success. I dont find that particularly problematic or worth worrying about. When these things are really dangerous is when people dont realize their presence like somebody just blindly citing the facts SGU is telling them is.

 

[Dr.Jekyll75]

op, since you did so well on your MCAT how did you end up in the Caribbean?

 

[jl lin]

It's not about what they want, it's about what a med school adcom will look past. There are lots of people with smaller things in their background than failing out of med school who don't get into med school. It's a very competitive process with limited seats. Look at it like a liver transplant -- does the guy who already destroyed one liver transplant on tequila get another before others?

Just wondering why you chose tequila?

 

[Law2Doc]

Just wondering why you chose tequila?

True, since we are talking Caribbean I should have said rum.

 

[Bancrofti]

These self reported stats from Caribbean schools are absolutely worthless. Zero credibility. Zero meaning. No value at all. Zilch.

Caribbean schools are masterminds at manipulating statistics, stretching truths and doing anything in their power to deceive naive 20 and 21 year olds by concoting all kinds of numbers to fit a certain narrative they want to sell. Dont put any worth in any statistic from a Carribean school from the mouths of the schools themselves. Period.

Caribbean schools excel in this sort of manipulation and twisting of facts. It's what they excel on, why their business model has worked for so long. Blindly touting "Well SGU told me our MCAT avg is a 28 or 29" is just highlighting how these programs stay in business.

All these statistics Caribbean schools tout have zero credibility, arent verified through any system or anybody and are coming directly from the mouths of people infamous for twisting any fact, outright omitting facts and doing any kind of manipulation you can think of to mislead premeds and to sell the narrative they want.

Anecdotes have no actual weight, that doesn't make them false (or true for that matter). The only reason I even speak on that info is because of my experience there, so I have a good idea of what the stats were of the people who were there. Typically 90% of intro conversations begin: "hey. where you from? so how'd you **** up to get here?" I think their stats are relatively accurate IMO. The skewing factor being that they typically include Canadian student numbers in any averages and their stats tend to be significantly better on average than the US kids. I also had a 31 MCAT, > 3.0 GPA and I didn't even get directly in to SGU.

I also agree with the personality types of the people that apply: no patience, can't take pressure from specific culture or physician parents, misinformed, jaded, etc. As a whole though this represents everyone in medicine. What we get to do is really cool, but it's really a terrible field at face value. Unless you're sitting on a scholarship at a top academic institution, whether or not attending medical school is a smart decision is very debatable. Going abroad is a poor decision for the prospects and how completely ****ty your life will be with all that debt should you fail out late or not match. However, to assume the character of the people that go is so poor just because they attend those schools is a bit much. Even judging people who fail is debatable... I almost didn't pass a class while there, now I'm at a US school having no trouble at all. If you don't know what it's like to be in a different country with a completely different culture at the most stressful point in your life, then I don't think you can judge anyone there.

 

[Mahasashi]

For people asking why I went to Caribbean, honestly I did not know about DO schools. I graduated early from college. I was pretty young when I entered college (I skipped a couple grades). I would say I was a bit immature not researching everything about medical schools before I applied, but I did not think I could get into a US MD school. I did not know what a DO school was, and did not even apply. I went to SGU since I thought it was my only option, and a lot of my friends were looking at Caribbean since they could not get into med schools here. I am a very hardworking student. I know if I got a chance into a med school, I would do well. It's been almost 3 years since my dismissal (I am applying for the 2017-2018 cycle). I am 23 now, and I have contiuously been studying USMLE prep books while in my Biomedical Sciences Masters. I made mistakes when I was younger and irresponsible. Now, I do want to try again. I am prepared for rejection from everywhere. I know it's the real wrold we don't always get second chances. But, I'll do whatever I can to get there.