Divorce Advice

[buffywannabe]

Hi Guys,

I read a thread a few months back about divorce that made my stomach churn. I am getting ready to ask my husband for a divorce as a 4th year medical student. I have significant student loans and he helped me very, very little as far as money goes in my education. I've been reading a bit about the laws in my state but am wondering if you all have anything helpful to add.

Thanks

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[buffywannabe]

Oh and if you are wondering why this is in the EM section, it's because I'm matching in EM and feel that you guys are my people

 

[Daiphon]

Hi Guys,

I read a thread a few months back about divorce that made my stomach churn. I am getting ready to ask my husband for a divorce as a 4th year medical student. I have significant student loans and he helped me very, very little as far as money goes in my education. I've been reading a bit about the laws in my state but am wondering if you all have anything helpful to add.

Thanks

Get a lawyer.

Seriously, they'll be best suited to answer these questions and know the vagaries of your state law.

Also, from personal (and similar experience), you should consider filing preferably before match and definitely before graduation. Your partner may try to claim the "lack of financial support" may be due to increased spousal/home support. Initiating this process before these 4th year milestones may help mitigate some of this argument and may limit your exposure from the "future earnings" standpoint.

But yeah, find an attorney... In the current legal economy, you should be able to find an affordable one.

Good luck.
-d

 

[Mad Jack]

Try and keep it as clean as possible, don't fight over any of your assets, and just move the hell on. You'll be much happier in the end keeping things simple and not fighting over material crap than you will if you hire a lawyer to drag things out for six months just to get that sofa and fine China. Divorce is really only a bad experience if you make it one or kids are involved. If he tries to make it messy, don't get aggressive back. Just let things slide and don't let him pull you on to the misery train. The only things you should get up in arms about are if he wants something out of you post divorce, such as if he demands you repay supposed medical school expenses he paid, requests alimony from you, or something equally as stupid.

I may not be a doctor, but I know a thing or two about divorce.

 

[dchristismi]

I'm a doctor, and unfortunately, I know a thing or two about divorce.

Do talk to a lawyer. Try to mediate - it's cheaper. Use your lawyer for law stuff and business only, and get a therapist to work through the emotional stuff. (Your school should have counseling services - use them.) A divorce, unfortunately, needs to be dealt with as business, even though it's incredibly emotional. Since you are the one initiating, you're ahead in the emotional recovery, but he likely isn't, and the whole process takes a LOT of time. If you can stay amicable and mediate it, it will be much easier and cheaper.

I should have asked for a divorce my 4th year of medical school and didn't. Ended up filing after residency anyway, but by then was out, making a hell of a lot more, and ended up forking out over 100K in alimony. So... do it now if you're going to do it.

 

[deleted480308]

definitely get to a lawyer quick if you aren't going to reconcile.....mediation is definitely cheaper than a real court fight and giving up assets now is definitely cheaper than paying the husband alimony (it can happen if they are deemed to have assisted you through school)

 

[Groove]

Been there, done that. All during residency for me. Honestly, it really just depends on the laws of your state. As others have said, if this is truly what you want, then the sooner you get it over and dealt with the better. I can't stress enough the importance of trying to refrain from getting nasty over the small stuff. Every long conversation about the trivial Christmas ornament that you want and refuse to give up that turns into a lawyer to lawyer discussion is time on the clock. That s*** can add up. I was married for 2 years and spent 20K on lawyer fees due to my ex yanking me through court over the craziest stuff. She got an insane alimony while I was still a resident mind you, for a divorce of irreconcilable differences. It's stressful and is extremely difficult to compartmentalize from work. Get it behind you and focus on residency. Good luck.

If you can talk your soon to be ex into just going to mediate with one attorney/judge, then you have it made.

 

[Silent Cool]

Hi Guys,

I read a thread a few months back about divorce that made my stomach churn. I am getting ready to ask my husband for a divorce as a 4th year medical student. I have significant student loans and he helped me very, very little as far as money goes in my education. I've been reading a bit about the laws in my state but am wondering if you all have anything helpful to add.

Thanks

buffy,

sorry to hear about your situation. would you mind telling us (loosely) why you are seeking a divorce?

thanx

 

[Arcan57]

buffy,

sorry to hear about your situation. would you mind telling us (loosely) why you are seeking a divorce?

thanx

What the hell? What makes you think that's an ok question to ask?

 

[Silent Cool]

What the hell? What makes you think that's an ok question to ask?

1) SDN is an anonymous message board.
2) I said 'loosely'--meaning, I'm not asking for details.
3) I'm curious if it had to do with medical training itself or something else, because this is relevant to me.
4) The OP can just say I don't want to discuss that.

 

[Old_Mil]

If what you are asking is whether medical training is stressful enough to cause a divorce - absolutely. Otherwise, I would say it is her business and wouldn't pry.

I will second the advice to get it over as quickly as possible. I hope you don't have kids and he has a career of some sort.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9330

 

[happygilmore]

What the hell? What makes you think that's an ok question to ask?

lol. Have to agree with this.

1) SDN is an anonymous message board.
2) I said 'loosely'--meaning, I'm not asking for details.
3) I'm curious if it had to do with medical training itself or something else, because this is relevant to me.
4) The OP can just say I don't want to discuss that.

Hoping to learn from their divorce is a self-serving attitude.

 

[illegallysmooth]

I have no advice except to echo what someone else said - do it before graduation if at all possible (if the laws in your state treat your medical degree as a sort of joint property), but really I just wanted to say I'm sorry.

 

[Iamnotme]

Hi Guys,

I read a thread a few months back about divorce that made my stomach churn. I am getting ready to ask my husband for a divorce as a 4th year medical student. I have significant student loans and he helped me very, very little as far as money goes in my education. I've been reading a bit about the laws in my state but am wondering if you all have anything helpful to add.

Thanks

I will tell you the following - first, think carefully about divorce. This goes not just for you, but for everyone. Make sure you really do want to divorce this person. If you do decide you must, as a physician, do so BEFORE you get a license. Apparently licenses are treated as income in some states, and each specialty has a certain lifetime estimate of how much you will make. If you get it during a marriage, your spouse can sue for a % of what you would get over the time of your life working in whatever specialty you are going to be working in. So if you and your spouse are married, you get your license while still married, your spouse can sue for a portion of your earnings, not just your current earnings, but your future, estimated earning potential. So be careful. That can really add up.

 

[SpaceLeftBlank]

So if you and your spouse are married, you get your license while still married, your spouse can sue for a portion of your earnings, not just your current earnings, but your future, estimated earning potential. So be careful. That can really add up.

In some states, the degree is considered marital property, which means the "value" of the degree can factor into a property distribution, so every bit of evidence you can marshal to show that your spouse really contributed nothing is going to be essential. (Nothing means nothing, too--it's not just about tuition, but also living expenses, etc.)

I've never been divorced, but I am a lawyer (I don't do divorces, but I have represented lawyers who do in malpractice matters), so a few things I've learned: judges (in my state, anyway) hate trying divorce cases. Some just outright won't do it, forcing even the most spite-filled divorce to eventually settle. But even if your judge will try a case, they often don't like it, and that ends up being reflected in both spouses going away very unhappy after. So in addition to getting a lawyer, be prepared to be as reasonable as you possibly can, and try your best to pick your battles wisely.

 

[Hard24Get]

I've started a divorce (Silent Cool it's because he's a serial cheater which is the only reason if ever initiate divorce) but I've been an attending for a while. He's an engineer but now a director and making almost 200k. He says he won't seek alimony but even if that's a lie I'll deal. My issue is we have an 18 month old son that I have been the primary caretaker for but all of a sudden he wants custody. He has been traveling a lot for business but since I had him served it slowed it way down. My interest is in how our variable schedules affect custody.

To buffywannabe, make sure you file ASAP if you're sure it's what you want.

 

[EM2BE]

I've started a divorce (Silent Cool it's because he's a serial cheater which is the only reason if ever initiate divorce) but I've been an attending for a while. He's an engineer but now a director and making almost 200k. He says he won't seek alimony but even if that's a lie I'll deal. My issue is we have an 18 month old son that I have been the primary caretaker for but all of a sudden he wants custody. He has been traveling a lot for business but since I had him served it slowed it way down. My interest is in how our variable schedules affect custody.

To buffywannabe, make sure you file ASAP if you're sure it's what you want.

Hi Hard24Get! Long time! Sucks this is what's going on in your life now, though.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I'm going through a divorce myself right now. Actually writing this from my lovely extended stay hotel I just moved into today and have to live in for a few months until my current job will release me. And its a job that I work at with my soon to be ex. I feel for you. If you ever need a sound board, feel free to PM. Good luck.

 

[lhuck67]

Hi, I open a dental Practice 8 years ago. I've been married for 22 years and my wife ask me to divorce her. 2 kids involved. Looking for some advice:
1- after the divorce is done, I'll pay child support for sure, but my question is about the alimony or maintenance. She works in a corporation and makes around 100k and I have my office and I make k300. How to minimize this ? thanks

 

[jokersmiles]

God this is a depressing thread.

 

[acciddropping]

what is the legal term called that your partner can sue you over the % of life long earning bc he or she "supported" you during your residency?

 

[The White Coat Investor]

God this is a depressing thread.

Yup, I wish I hadn't clicked on this one.

 

[gutonc]

what is the legal term called that your partner can sue you over the % of life long earning bc he or she "supported" you during your residency?

Getting screwed?

 

[styphon]

I would look into local state laws, as timing may be extremely important..... Visit a lawyer, even if it is for initial consultation only.

In some states a MD/DO is considered an asset, and must be "divided" at divorce. Of course you can't divide a degree, so instead you must give "monetary value" of the degree which often uses LIFETIME income to calculate! To avoid this, initiation divorce before getting the degree.

Another aspect is "standard of living", the longer you wait, the higher the standard of living will be for your partner, and the higher the amount of alimony they can request.

 

[deleted480308]

I would look into local state laws, as timing may be extremely important..... Visit a lawyer, even if it is for initial consultation only.

In some states a MD/DO is considered an asset, and must be "divided" at divorce. Of course you can't divide a degree, so instead you must give "monetary value" of the degree which often uses LIFETIME income to calculate! To avoid this, initiation divorce before getting the degree.

Another aspect is "standard of living", the longer you wait, the higher the standard of living will be for your partner, and the higher the amount of alimony they can request.

which is a completely crappy deal for the income earner because the money is the only "standard" that is enforced forever. The non-earner doesn't have to keep coming by the house to clean up or handle the bills, the non-earner doesn't have to come over and cook meals or be available for intimacy. Nope, they just get to quit all the stuff they contributed but keep getting all that the high earner contributed forever.

 

[exsanguination]

Have any physicians here had the experience mentioned above - where you were expected to pay a lifetime's worth of your degree to your divorced spouse? I know in new york this is the case, but anywhere else? Honestly, any and all divorce experiences would be helpful to hear because this is some scary stuff.

Makes me want to consider just prophylactically divorcing my wife while I'm still in residency even though things are going perfectly between us. I can't imagine taking such a huge financial hit if for some reason in 10 years she decides she wants something else.

 

[meister]

Prophylactic divorce....damn.

 

[beachbum353353]

Makes me want to consider just prophylactically divorcing my wife while I'm still in residency even though things are going perfectly between us. I can't imagine taking such a huge financial hit if for some reason in 10 years she decides she wants something else.

Post-nup agreement..

 

[Old_Mil]

Have any physicians here had the experience mentioned above - where you were expected to pay a lifetime's worth of your degree to your divorced spouse? I know in new york this is the case, but anywhere else?

Leave it to New York to be the one place on the planet Sharia law could improve.

 

[VentJockey]

This kind of **** makes me never want to get married. Or if I do get married, to have a very very iron clad pre-nup. Actually first week of residency one of the attendings sat down with all the interns and told us his divorce story, and gave us very specific advice about pre-nups to get them to be as iron clad as possible. The reality is that as doctors, we are prey and there are a ton of predators out there.

 

[future_dr_house]

Can you share the iron-clad tips?


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[deleted480308]

I am incredibly glad I met my wife when I was doing something completely different and embarrassingly broke...she loved broke sb247 for years before there was even a hint I might make some money

 

[Mbekweni]

Many see pre-nups as unromantic but I'm seeing more and more of a reason to get one- just in case. It's basically agreeing with your partner on what your own specific terms and conditions of divorce would be rather than defaulting to the state. Down side, both sides must employ a lawyer and my best estimate is they would run in the 3k-8k range. Both sides need to employ a different lawyer and not have any time pressure right before the wedding. A few things that I think would be important:
1) No alimony vs perhaps 6 months max. Even two well educated medical professionals who have a discrepancy in income (ie ortho attending and pediatrics) will have the higher earning spouse usually be forced to "maintain the standard of living" of the other.
2) Earned income during the marriage stays separate unless it goes to a joint account (which I would plan for household expenses ie mortgage, no specific mention of who contributes what to this joint account since I think that would be petty). This would specify retirement accounts staying separate.
3) Joint ownership of primary home - seems fair to me, encourages the couple and home building mentality. Giving something up for the higher earner but pre-nups shouldn't be too one sided.

 

[tartesos]

Have any physicians here had the experience mentioned above - where you were expected to pay a lifetime's worth of your degree to your divorced spouse? I know in new york this is the case, but anywhere else? Honestly, any and all divorce experiences would be helpful to hear because this is some scary stuff.

Makes me want to consider just prophylactically divorcing my wife while I'm still in residency even though things are going perfectly between us. I can't imagine taking such a huge financial hit if for some reason in 10 years she decides she wants something else.

That's cold.... But I like the way you roll....
After residency though it's cheaper to keep her!!!
It would be the war of the roses for me!

 

[tartesos]

I am incredibly glad I met my wife when I was doing something completely different and embarrassingly broke...she loved broke sb247 for years before there was even a hint I might make some money

Same here!! That's a great feeling! I know my wife loved this a$$hole way before all the bling bling and up until 5 years ago that I finished im residency she was making more than me.