DNP (doctor of nursing practice) vs. DO/MD

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Makati2008 said:
1.)It would be seen as a slap in the face of the Nobel committee for him to reject that award. Remember he did donate the cash from it to charity.
2.)You should be respectable to the person that earned that right to be in that position. It would seem as a NP with so many people that disrespect you due to that reason you could possibly correlate that to your personal life somewhat. Again, although you don't agree with his policies you should be respectable to his position and vote him out in 2012.
3.)If you don't respect Obama did you respect Bush or Clinton?
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I respect Bush more than Obama because at least he will quietly go into a military hospital to see veterans while Obama tends to put them in the back row, behind his cronies. Clinton started the world financial markets crashing with his "let everyone buy a house even if they can't afford it" plan.
 
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jwk said:
So you think the President automatically deserves my respect? Sorry, not gonna happen. Respect is earned, not bestowed by title. Obama has done nothing to earn my respect. Now - declining the Nobel Peace Prize because he had clearly done nothing to warrant receiving it would have been an act worthy of my respect. But alas, he missed that opportunity. So - if you love him SOOOOOOOOO much, explain to me - what had he DONE at the time the announcement was made that made him worthy?

McCain most certainly is worthy of respect, given his long history of service to this country (literally decades more than Obama). Palin wasn't the best choice, but even now, she's a force to contend with whether you like her or not. I'd still take her over Biden any day. Is there a Democrat I would vote for? Of course not. I don't vote for candidates who feel like government is the answer to all our problems.

Bush shouldn't have been there for a 2nd term? So you wanted Kerry? :laugh:

I work in a specialty that takes care of every single patient that comes through the door without regard for or even asking about their health care coverage or ability to pay. Do you do the same?

I'm all for healthcare reform - I just don't like it as defined by Democrats, and I don't like the way it was rammed down our throats. I'll admit - there are a few parts I do like, such as being able to leave your kids on your insurance till they're age 26, but hey, guess what - I pay for it. It doesn't come free. Your solution is what, the government paying for it, a single payor system? Laughable. Medicare/Medicaid don't cover actual costs now, and Obamacare did nothing to deal with that. The cost is still born by those of us who are having to pay for it ourselves AND have to cover the cost for those who can't, or more importantly, WON'T pay for it themselves. The Canadians love their system - until they really need it. Are you ready for rationed care?

As far as your last assinine comment - try to understand that not liking or respecting or agreeing with Obama is not the same thing as being racist. But hey, that's typical of Democrats - attack the messenger but don't deal with the issues, just like what's happening in Wisconsin right now.
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Damn fine post. Just goes to show that age and experience counts for something.:thumbup:
 
jwk said:
I would rather have an empty shoe box as VP than Sarah Palin
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At least she had experience running a state...and can shoot...while Obama had experience TALKING. He'd probably squeal like a girl if he fired a weapon.

Note: No offense meant to any girl who squeals.
 
zenman said:
At least she had experience running a state...and can shoot...while Obama had experience TALKING. He'd probably squeal like a girl if he fired a weapon.

Note: No offense meant to any girl who squeals.
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1.)So I will ask you the following-What Democrat will/would you vote for
2.)Do you have any respect at all for Obama. I truly doubt it with the "gunranger" comment you made earlier. Also I agree with the Clinton comment but Bush has done/did his fair share as well and so will Obama when its all said and done.
3.)So your telling me you would work for someone that basically walked away from her state while she was in office. REALLY?? I haven't foreseen that from Obama. Plus Palin doesn't really have the best educational background....
4.)Last comment is a bit sad for you to make. A.)It's only assumption
B.)I would hope that she would be raising her family and be more concerned about that instead of "shooting a gun" and having a reality TV show(that loses a lot of points this day and age. R.Reagan was a different situation to me due to the times and he built up credibility. Palin appears to have none and is after the $$$.) and remember that whole "foreign policy" about her having relations with Russia.....
 
Makati2008 said:
1.)So I will ask you the following-What Democrat will/would you vote for
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None at the moment.

2.)Do you have any respect at all for Obama. I truly doubt it with the "gunranger" comment you made earlier. Also I agree with the Clinton comment but Bush has done/did his fair share as well and so will Obama when its all said and done.
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I respect him for actually thinking he could do the job. That took some balls.

3.)So your telling me you would work for someone that basically walked away from her state while she was in office. REALLY?? I haven't foreseen that from Obama. Plus Palin doesn't really have the best educational background....
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I remember her saying in a news report why she left. I don't remember what she said but do remember that it made sense. Every politician has left their job at some point to take their current job.

4.)Last comment is a bit sad for you to make. A.)It's only assumption
B.)I would hope that she would be raising her family and be more concerned about that instead of "shooting a gun" and having a reality TV show(that loses a lot of points this day and age. R.Reagan was a different situation to me due to the times and he built up credibility. Palin appears to have none and is after the $$$.) and remember that whole "foreign policy" about her having relations with Russia.....
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What I actually like about Palin is that she's real. You know what you have with her. And don't forget that probably every politician is after the $$$$.

In any case, are you ready for 2012?

Now back to our regular programming.
 
zenman said:
What I actually like about Palin is that she's real. You know what you have with her. And don't forget that probably every politician is after the $$$$.

In any case, are you ready for 2012?

Now back to our regular programming.
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Well, I'll agree with you on that point. You certainly do know what you have when it comes to Sarah Palin. :rolleyes:
 
fab4fan said:
Well, I'll agree with you on that point. You certainly do know what you have when it comes to Sarah Palin. :rolleyes:
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That's at least one point for her! Don't know if I'd ever vote for her but the woman does have a plan.
 
I'm giving her that point...:D
 
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emedpa said:
despite the doctorate a dnp is still a midlevel provider and can not call themselves dr xyz in a clinical situation or have dr xyz on their name tags.
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Really? I'm a DNP and am not a midlevel as I have a terminal doctorate degree in my own profession - nursing. I'm not actually boarded, licensed or credentialed by any agency/organization or entity remotely representing that I'm in the medical profession. I'm addressed as 'doctor' on a daily basis, but only by medical students, residents, PA's and certain attending physicians. Most of my patients and DNP colleagues just call me Fred.

You might be getting DNP's confused with PA's. Since DNP's are autonomous providers in 23 states whereas PA's are not autonomous in any state, I can see where the confusion might be coming from. PA's are dependent providers under the domain of medicine, whereas DNP APRN's are actually independent providers of care in the profession of nursing. Although certain functions do overlap (prescribing, diagnosing, teaching) between the two, they are not in the same profession.

Since DNP's are at the top of their profession of nursing, and because the profession of nursing is not controlled or owned by physicians, its really not logical to place DNP's in a category of being a mid level – such as in the middle of another profession such as podiatry, medicine, dentistry, etc.

Hope that helped.
.
 
Kaushik said:
Mary Mundinger, has stated in public articles that she thinks DNPs are superior to physicians.?
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What's wrong with that? There is surely no shortage of those who think physicians are superior to DNP's. Let me know if you need quotes.
__________________
Dr. Fred, DNP, FNP
Primary Care Doctor:D

Cool Facts
Number of DNP Students in US
2002: 70 (2 programs)
2009: 5,165 (119 programs w/ 117 to be added soon)

Number of Independent NP Practice States
1965: 0
2011: 23 (8 more in play-soon to be independent)

Average Medical Student Loan Debt
$200,000 +

Average DNP Student Loan Debt
Nada

Rankings
Nursing: Most trusted profession in the US
Medicine: Somewhere in between high school teachers and telemarketers
 
Last edited:
Kaushik said:
Physicians aren't "afraid" of midlevels. The problem is that there's not a single study that shows that NPs/DNPs provide equal care as physicians. There are a lot of studies that measure useless metrics like patient satisfaction, etc, and the NPs/DNPs extrapolate from that useless data to say that they provide care that's equivalent to that of physicians.

If these NPs/DNPs cannot understand the basic(ie. stuff that undergraduates are familiar with) concepts of statistics and experimental design to see how flawed these "studies" (I put them in quotes because I'm pretty sure a high school student can design better studies than the ones out there) are, I would not trust them to understand the complexities of pathophysiology. Seriously, how can we expect them to understand the complexity behind the human body to have an equivalent scope of practice as physicians do if they can't even see the obvious, not even minor, flaws these studies have?
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I suppose with 120 research products demonstrating safe and effective care coming from NP's isn't quite sufficient. So how about posting all of those studies that support NP's provide inferior care as compared to physicians. How about just one study. Incidentally, can anyone identify any other health care occupation that has been studied more than the NP? Seriously, I'd really like to know.
__________________
Dr. Fred, DNP, FNP
Primary Care Doctor:D

Cool Facts
Number of DNP Students in US
2002: 70 (2 programs)
2009: 5,165 (119 programs w/ 117 to be added soon)

Number of Independent NP Practice States
1965: 0
2011: 23 (8 more in play-soon to be independent)

Average Medical Student Loan Debt
$200,000 +

Average DNP Student Loan Debt
Nada

Rankings
Nursing: Most trusted profession in the US
Medicine: Somewhere in between high school teachers and telemarketers
 
Dr Fred DNPFNP said:
Really? I'm a DNP and am not a midlevel as I have a terminal doctorate degree in my own profession - nursing. I'm not actually boarded, licensed or credentialed by any agency/organization or entity remotely representing that I'm in the medical profession. I'm addressed as 'doctor' on a daily basis, but only by medical students, residents, PA's and certain attending physicians. Most of my patients and DNP colleagues just call me Fred.

You might be getting DNP's confused with PA's. Since DNP's are autonomous providers in 23 states whereas PA's are not autonomous in any state, I can see where the confusion might be coming from. PA's are dependent providers under the domain of medicine, whereas DNP APRN's are actually independent providers of care in the profession of nursing. Although certain functions do overlap (prescribing, diagnosing, teaching) between the two, they are not in the same profession.

Since DNP’s are at the top of their profession of nursing, and because the profession of nursing is not controlled or owned by physicians, its really not logical to place DNP’s in a category of being a mid level – such as in the middle of another profession such as podiatry, medicine, dentistry, etc.

Hope that helped.
.
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Wow. Great example of the pompous arrogance of the DNP. Thanks for demonstrating so vividly.
 
Dr Fred DNPFNP said:
Really? I'm a DNP and am not a midlevel as I have a terminal doctorate degree in my own profession - nursing. I'm not actually boarded, licensed or credentialed by any agency/organization or entity remotely representing that I'm in the medical profession. I'm addressed as 'doctor' on a daily basis, but only by medical students, residents, PA's and certain attending physicians. Most of my patients and DNP colleagues just call me Fred.

You might be getting DNP's confused with PA's. Since DNP's are autonomous providers in 23 states whereas PA's are not autonomous in any state, I can see where the confusion might be coming from. PA's are dependent providers under the domain of medicine, whereas DNP APRN's are actually independent providers of care in the profession of nursing. Although certain functions do overlap (prescribing, diagnosing, teaching) between the two, they are not in the same profession.

Since DNP’s are at the top of their profession of nursing, and because the profession of nursing is not controlled or owned by physicians, its really not logical to place DNP’s in a category of being a mid level – such as in the middle of another profession such as podiatry, medicine, dentistry, etc.

Hope that helped.
.
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1.)You are NOT a Doctor(not in the medical sense). Maybe a noctor lol and I truly doubt some Physicians,PAs, or Med. student would call you doctor(The ones I know are called Fred or Mr. Fred.) since so many of us are against the DNP movement as a whole.
2.)That is the danger with NPs such as yourself->From your comments you don't know your place and I am assuming your limits.
 
Makati2008 said:
I do think that the DNP makes no senses, NP's should ONLY be called a Doctor in Academic settings, and patient's should be explicitly educated about this via all available resources. !
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How's this for an available resource?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDWICRbomrA


Here's another one that might help the OP between distinguishing between a DNP and a real doctor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYrEy9NHKPY


Ironically, the DNP-c FNP that made this owns her own clinic and is hiring. Although she would prefer a DNP, she is desperate and might consider hiring a physician if she can't find a qualified DNP.
 
Dr Fred DNPFNP said:
How's this for an available resource?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDWICRbomrA


Here's another one that might help the OP between distinguishing between a DNP and a real doctor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYrEy9NHKPY


Ironically, the DNP-c FNP that made this owns her own clinic and is hiring. Although she would prefer a DNP, she is desperate and might consider hiring a physician if she can't find a qualified DNP.
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Lol. Please spare me youtube. There is a reason she is desperate most of us know that a DNP is not a Medical doctor. If you really feel like this->Man up and go to Med. school and you will get a rude awakening due to the huge differences in training. Heck go to PA school for a few weeks and sit in and look at the differences in training....
 
Hey Makati--
i have two doctors working FOR ME--or more appropriately--WITH me--they ask ME questions, they consult with ME--since i have about 20 more years training/experience than they do

Get over yourself. you are so worried--about what?? go be a specialist like all your other greedy idiot friends

the writing is on the wall--have you read the PPACA--or do you even know what that means? Every heard of a concept called restraint of trade??

if florence nightingale would have been a man MDs would still be killing people left and right because they didn't know a thing about germ theory--DUH maybe we should wash our hands and clean our knives before we cut on anyone

how about this--do you have a license to practice nursing?? I say you are practicing nursing and need to stop doing anything that even resembles ANYTHING that nurses do

just let me tell you this--if it quack like a duck its probably a duck--so keep quacking--and if you call me a quack i guess that means you are one too
 
OH no I am my OWN DNP--Fred just has brought in the re-inforcements

and there are more to come

we aren't going to take your **** any more--just wait until the FTC and supreme court gets done with all of you--you will be lucky to be in primary care at all any longer.
 
Makati2008 said:
Lol. Please spare me youtube. There is a reason she is desperate most of us know that a DNP is not a Medical doctor. If you really feel like this->Man up and go to Med. school and you will get a rude awakening due to the huge differences in training. Heck go to PA school for a few weeks and sit in and look at the differences in training....
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Actually, the reason she is so overwhelmed is that patients are flocking to her from, you know--the real doctors, because they enjoy the care they get. She, as most DNP's are trained to put the patient--not the provider as the central focal point. Her practice revolves around her patients--not the other way around. Some people are silly and they actually like that sort of thing.

As far as going to medical school and becoming a physician, trust me, I couldn't afford the pay cut. Being a partner in the largest NP owned clinic in my state kind of keeps me busy. Besides, I don't think I can ever do the medical model to human beings. I'll leave that to the real doctors and continue treating people with, you know, the fluff nursing stuff.
 
you have an ego that can hardly fit through the door--

your days are limited in primary care--read the IOM report--that is if you can get your head out of your "medical" books
 
DNP said:
Hey Makati--
i have two doctors working FOR ME--or more appropriately--WITH me--they ask ME questions, they consult with ME--since i have about 20 more years training/experience than they do

Get over yourself. you are so worried--about what?? go be a specialist like all your other greedy idiot friends

the writing is on the wall--have you read the PPACA--or do you even know what that means? Every heard of a concept called restraint of trade??

if florence nightingale would have been a man MDs would still be killing people left and right because they didn't know a thing about germ theory--DUH maybe we should wash our hands and clean our knives before we cut on anyone

how about this--do you have a license to practice nursing?? I say you are practicing nursing and need to stop doing anything that even resembles ANYTHING that nurses do

just let me tell you this--if it quack like a duck its probably a duck--so keep quacking--and if you call me a quack i guess that means you are one too
Click to expand...


Lol. Not worried at all. Which one is it? For or with you? Nope haven't read the PPACA.

The bolded parts make me smh like what in the world lol.
 
DNP said:
you have an ego that can hardly fit through the door--

your days are limited in primary care--read the IOM report--that is if you can get your head out of your "medical" books
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Lol no thank you. I rather be a Physician instead of a DNP.
 
again--you are crazy--do you need a surgeon to provide primary care to people--hell no.

I can provide primary care dirt cheap. which is what is wrong in the country. 70 % of the MDs specialize--in other countries--with better health at a lower cost--are just the opposite.
60-70% are in primary care. Look--the system has burned out primary care MDs and it is going to burn out primary care NPs--lets quit this ridiculous turf/name issue and look at the real issue
the damned primary care system is broken. I don't blame you all for going into specialities--I would to if I went to med school, spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and had just realized what a stupid thing that was

I understand your grief--
 
Makati2008 said:
most of us know that a DNP is not a Medical doctor.
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Really? Just most of you know that? And I was told that people in your field--the field of medicine were pretty sharp. Anyway, good work on being able to distinguish between a DNP as not being a medical doctor. To clarify, MD stands for Medical Doctor. DNP stands for Doctor of Nursing Practice. Try and practice and work on this a bit. Tomorrow, we'll work on the tough ones like podiatrist and dentist.
 
DNP said:
I don't blame you all for going into specialities--I would to if I went to med school, spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and had just realized what a stupid thing that was-
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Can someone help me add this to my signature line? I'm a bit new and haven't had the benefit of medical school.
 
Dr Fred DNPFNP said:
Really? Just most of you know that? And I was told that people in your field--the field of medicine were pretty sharp. Anyway, good work on being able to distinguish between a DNP as not being a medical doctor. To clarify, MD stands for Medical Doctor. DNP stands for Doctor of Nursing Practice. Try and practice and work on this a bit. Tomorrow, we'll work on the tough ones like podiatrist and dentist.
Click to expand...

Lol. I guess I should quit feeding you for now. I will check back in a few hours to see if your here....
 
Makati2008 said:
So I wonder if I decide to have the mods do an IP check will they show me that DNP and Dr. Fred DNPFNP are one in the same...taking all bets now lol.
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Thanks for thinking that I was that quick. Ever heard of the old saying "great minds think...." c'mon, you can fill this in--after all you now know that DNP doesn't stand for medical doctor.
 
Makati2008 said:
Lol. I guess I should quit feeding you for now. I will check back in a few hours to see if your here....
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Sorry, got to go. Have a bunch of patients to take care of that bailed on their real doctors to get a bit of quality care.
 
DNP said:
again--you are crazy--do you need a surgeon to provide primary care to people--hell no.

I can provide primary care dirt cheap. which is what is wrong in the country. 70 % of the MDs specialize--in other countries--with better health at a lower cost--are just the opposite.
60-70% are in primary care. Look--the system has burned out primary care MDs and it is going to burn out primary care NPs--lets quit this ridiculous turf/name issue and look at the real issue
the damned primary care system is broken. I don't blame you all for going into specialities--I would to if I went to med school, spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and had just realized what a stupid thing that was

I understand your grief--
Click to expand...

You're correct, DNPs are capable of working for cheaper than MDs in the primary care specialties. The question is, will you? Will you really do the same work that I do and be willing to do it for less money?
 
Dr Fred DNPFNP said:
Sorry, got to go. Have a bunch of patients to take care of that bailed on their real doctors to get a bit of quality care.
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I'm fairly neutral on the whole NP/DNP thing, but when you say crap like that it makes me want to take the opposite side on this issue.
 
I swear its like whack a mole here. I got rid of DNP,Taraflorida, and drFredDNPFNP what a busy day lol
 
Wow. That was some fairly epic trolling. I have to applaud them for that at least. And for demonstrating the mentality of the newer generation of graduating NPs.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
Ha, nicely done
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Thank you(takes a bow) thank you lol.

To the poster right below this one-I know it is quite dangerous to see how DNPs feel. I hope that the general public will wake up. I believe NPs are important parts of the healthcare system but something should be done to reign them on in somewhat(like take away that independent practice and putting them under BOM)
 
I am kind of suprised you guys didn't enjoy a bit of bantering back and forth. I think the DNP and Dr. Fred are just trying to show you the writing on the wall.

Everyone knows that the future of primary care is going to be NPs. Why? because primary care is broken. It sucks. Its hard work, long hours, little pay and in order to make a living you just have to crank up the treadmill--and you aren't likely to get any "cheap help" aka DNP or NP or even a PA if you attitude toward them is like this.

only 2% of us are going into primary care--why is that? everyone signs up med school saying they are going to be a primary care provider but when they realize that is a bad choice they jump ship and go into specialty care?

Why not let the NPs, DNPs or whatever they want to call themselves have it? You really want to incur all that debt and see 30 pts a day for $140-$160k a year??

I don't that's for sure
 
don't you think that would only cause you more work?

what state are you in Makati?
 
depakote--are you the moderator of the thread? just wondering since i'm new

also wondering why DNP and Dr. fred or whoever didn't just get a slap on the hand or a warning or something instead of being banned?
and why didn't Makati get into any "trouble"? Just wondering
thanks
Lee
 
i say again--watch out--keep your words short and sweet or you may eat them
 
yes Makahti--you will be a "real" doctor--just like me
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
You're correct, DNPs are capable of working for cheaper than MDs in the primary care specialties. The question is, will you? Will you really do the same work that I do and be willing to do it for less money?
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I'll answer. Yes, I am willing to do it for less money. I was thrilled to be offered 93K for my first job. I turned it down, ironically, b/c the independent level of practice that MD hoped for from the NP was greater than I feel comfortable with as a new grad. I want less independence, more mentoring, and I'm willing to pay for it -in the sense that Ill forgo as much as 20-25k of that salary to get it.

I know I'll probably take less when I find my dream job. I think my personal low is probably in the low 70s, although for the right opportunity I would consider anything greater than 65k. I will not work for less than that. Deep down, I am hoping for 80k with a good mentoring relationship with whomever I am working alongside. Fortunately, I can afford to hold out and look for the right opportunity, and I'm still working on the DNP part anyway, so no rush. Judging from my contacts with potential employers to date I do not anticipate that having earned the DNP will change my salary outlook as a new provider. I never expected it to and remain undeterred.

The DNP, for all it's flaws, is presently the terminal degree in my field. It is the highest level of education I can pursue as a NP. If and when they come up with something else, I'll do that perhaps. For now, this is what I'm doing.

As to the antics of a few, it has been my experience that extremists rarely work and play well with others, no matter what their educational background. IRL, I avoid them, as do most people I suspect. I don't speak for or represent NPs in general or DNPs. I aim to honor my profession, respect my colleagues, and do my best to care for the pateints that give me their trust. That about sums it up for me.

Salud.
 
you shouldn't have a problem finding a good job at 80k. look on the nhsc site. most of those jobs pay well(and provide loan repayment) and you work as part of a primary care team in a small office setting. and most folks who work long term at an nhsc site care about what they are doing and are willing to share with others/teach. good luck.
 
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