Do DOs take pride in their identity or not?

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Basically, I take pride in being a (future) physician. A DO degree is a medical degree, and I take pride in working to earn it. I don't really appreciate it when people suggest a DO degree is anything more or less than a medical degree. This includes both residencies that discriminate against DOs and people on the other end of the spectrum who hold us back in the name of 'distinctiveness.'

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From a DO in residency, I would say that I agree with a lot of the sentiments expressed above. I am so proud to have a Medical Degree, though it may not be an MD, per se. It has given me some extra tools in my toolbelt. It made more residency options available to me (though with the merger it may not matter as much). However, I will say that some of the OMM stuff seems a bit like voodoo medicine. I wish we had an option to take our practical for OMM, or not when getting our board certification. And our DO stuff gets a little more difficult too when it comes to things like recertifications every 8 years instead of 10.
 
I wanted to get some viewpoints on how DOs view themselves. Sometimes it seems some want to hide it, some are ambivalent.... So any opinions would be appreciated.
So I did a total of 16 years of higher education just to be ashamed of my degree?? F####K you Troller
 
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From a DO in residency, I would say that I agree with a lot of the sentiments expressed above. I am so proud to have a Medical Degree, though it may not be an MD, per se. It has given me some extra tools in my toolbelt. It made more residency options available to me (though with the merger it may not matter as much). However, I will say that some of the OMM stuff seems a bit like voodoo medicine. I wish we had an option to take our practical for OMM, or not when getting our board certification. And our DO stuff gets a little more difficult too when it comes to things like recertifications every 8 years instead of 10.
That's the problem though.. If it was an option , only about 3 students in each year's class would actually do it. It's just too much meaningless, wasted time added to the amount that you have to already study
 
So I did a total of 16 years of higher education just to be ashamed of my degree?? F####K you Troller
All I did was ask a question. Basically how you feel about yourself is reflected in your response. You sound insecure man.
 
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As far as the general public is concerned a doctor is a doctor. As far as your peers are concerned I think the MD is held in higher esteem but the difference in status between MD and DO is slowly fading.
 
All I did was ask a question. Basically how you feel about yourself is reflected in your response. You sound insecure man.

Not a man. Quit your damn trolling.
 
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Im not trolling. I honestly just wanted people's opinions.
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Yes, some of us take enormous pride in what osteopathy is and what it can do. However, DO distinctiveness is mostly a thing of the past- and we've done it to ourselves by lax admissions standards, poor osteopathic instruction, and allowing rapid expansion in the number of DO schools.

MDs can take OMM cme, and I've heard rumor some even have an omm elective. With enough effort by an MD, they can be as good an osteopath as the best of us- and some already are. Many DOs do not know/embrace the philosophy or omm as you can see from this thread- and a number of them wish they were MDs, or at least feel insecure about their degree. With the accrediting bodies merging and better research for omm coming out- the effective parts will be adopted by all and the ineffective parts will be slowly phased out in the coming decades (at least at schools). Don't be surprised if in 10-20 years there is only one physician degree (MD), and all practicing physicians receive some degree of palpation training and treatment skills based on a few simple principles rather than hundreds of hours of technique memorization. No DOs will lose their privileges, but I suspect the degrees will merge for the sake of simplicity and the fact that it just makes sense at this point.

I chose the DO route over MD schools and I am very happy where I am now in my career over a decade later. I am an OMM/NMM specialist, and I get great results- get patients healthily off their meds/prevent surgeries- helping many patients that have been helped nowhere else. That said, my advice to premeds is to go to the best medical school you can get into. If you like the principles of osteopathy, read AT Stills books (and his new well-researched biography written by Lewis) and seek out master osteopathic teachers to learn from 1x1, regardless if you go MD or DO. Also take the time to read about Functional Medicine- it is largely evidence based and from what I've seen seems to be quite effective. The philosophy of functional medicine and emphasis on looking for causes of disease will feel very familiar.

Hope I didn't piss too many people off. Sometimes the truth hurts- but I feel it's important that people make informed decisions.
 
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Yes, some of us take enormous pride in what osteopathy is and what it can do. However, DO distinctiveness is mostly a thing of the past- and we've done it to ourselves by lax admissions standards, poor osteopathic instruction, and allowing rapid expansion in the number of DO schools.

MDs can take OMM cme, and I've heard rumor some even have an omm elective. With enough effort by an MD, they can be as good an osteopath as the best of us- and some already are. Many DOs do not know/embrace the philosophy or omm as you can see from this thread- and a number of them wish they were MDs, or at least feel insecure about their degree. With the accrediting bodies merging and better research for omm coming out- the effective parts will be adopted by all and the ineffective parts will be slowly phased out in the coming decades (at least at schools). Don't be surprised if in 10-20 years there is only one physician degree (MD), and all practicing physicians receive some degree of palpation training and treatment skills based on a few simple principles rather than hundreds of hours of technique memorization. No DOs will lose their privileges, but I suspect the degrees will merge for the sake of simplicity and the fact that it just makes sense at this point.

I chose the DO route over MD schools and I am very happy where I am now in my career over a decade later. I am an OMM/NMM specialist, and I get great results- get patients healthily off their meds/prevent surgeries- helping many patients that have been helped nowhere else. That said, my advice to premeds is to go to the best medical school you can get into. If you like the principles of osteopathy, read AT Stills books (and his new well-researched biography written by Lewis) and seek out master osteopathic teachers to learn from 1x1, regardless if you go MD or DO. Also take the time to read about Functional Medicine- it is largely evidence based and from what I've seen seems to be quite effective. The philosophy of functional medicine and emphasis on looking for causes of disease will feel very familiar.

Hope I didn't piss too many people off. Sometimes the truth hurts- but I feel it's important that people make informed decisions.
I appreciate it. This is the kind of answer I was looking for.
 
I will introduce myself as an OSTEOPATH to my patients even if I will have a M.D. degree...
 
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Yes, some of us take enormous pride in what osteopathy is and what it can do. However, DO distinctiveness is mostly a thing of the past- and we've done it to ourselves by lax admissions standards, poor osteopathic instruction, and allowing rapid expansion in the number of DO schools.

MDs can take OMM cme, and I've heard rumor some even have an omm elective. With enough effort by an MD, they can be as good an osteopath as the best of us- and some already are. Many DOs do not know/embrace the philosophy or omm as you can see from this thread- and a number of them wish they were MDs, or at least feel insecure about their degree. With the accrediting bodies merging and better research for omm coming out- the effective parts will be adopted by all and the ineffective parts will be slowly phased out in the coming decades (at least at schools). Don't be surprised if in 10-20 years there is only one physician degree (MD), and all practicing physicians receive some degree of palpation training and treatment skills based on a few simple principles rather than hundreds of hours of technique memorization. No DOs will lose their privileges, but I suspect the degrees will merge for the sake of simplicity and the fact that it just makes sense at this point.

I chose the DO route over MD schools and I am very happy where I am now in my career over a decade later. I am an OMM/NMM specialist, and I get great results- get patients healthily off their meds/prevent surgeries- helping many patients that have been helped nowhere else. That said, my advice to premeds is to go to the best medical school you can get into. If you like the principles of osteopathy, read AT Stills books (and his new well-researched biography written by Lewis) and seek out master osteopathic teachers to learn from 1x1, regardless if you go MD or DO. Also take the time to read about Functional Medicine- it is largely evidence based and from what I've seen seems to be quite effective. The philosophy of functional medicine and emphasis on looking for causes of disease will feel very familiar.

Hope I didn't piss too many people off. Sometimes the truth hurts- but I feel it's important that people make informed decisions.
Admissions standards for DO schools have gone up dramatically over recent years, even with more and more schools opening up
 
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I will introduce myself as an OSTEOPATH to my patients even if I will have a M.D. degree...
@science I think something about my MD degree will not sit well with me... Maybe OMM will make it more complete. :(
But DOs don't introduce themselves as "OSTEOPATH" but say "Osteopathic physician." There are differences between two words and you're welcome to learn OMM if you feel the need of it, maybe not cranial though.
 
But DOs don't introduce themselves as "OSTEOPATH" but say "Osteopathic physician." There are differences between two words and you're welcome to learn OMM if you feel the need of it, maybe not cranial though.
I've never heard a DO attending say, "Hi, I'm Dr. X, the attending osteopathic physician." Why would you? Talk about confusing an already confused patient population​
 
This is why I put you on "ignore." Do you seriously think any DO says, "Hi, I'm Dr. X, the attending osteopathic physician?" No, of course not! They only say such when a patient asks what DO means. In fact, you shouldn't even reply to any of my post. I don't see them unless I press on the link. Save your precious time for more pressing matter.


I think there is a OMM rotation or OMM fellowship - which is 1 year program offers at DMU.
Grow up kid.
 
I thought you were trolling, I guess I was wrong. You can learn OMM as a rotation or as CME. In the next 1-2 years a 3-year osteopathic NMM ACGME residency will be available to MDs that want to specialize in osteopathic medicine. At that point the difference between MDs and DOs will approach zero.
 
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I'll take huge pride in my identity as a DO because I know I'll have worked really hard to earn it.

But I won't lie and say that with a 3.7/32, only getting into osteopathic schools, that I don't have a slight chip on my shoulder. But I'm also eternally grateful for this opportunity and will see things through to the best of the ability. I know a few others in my boat and know they have a similar mentality about being a DO.
 
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I'll take huge pride in my identity as a DO because I know I'll have worked really hard to earn it.

But I won't lie and say that with a 3.7/32, only getting into osteopathic schools, that I don't have a slight chip on my shoulder. But I'm also eternally grateful for this opportunity and will see things through to the best of the ability. I know a few others in my boat and know they have a similar mentality about being a DO.
You must have interviewed bad. Know some one with your stats who got interviews but couldn't make it past that step, because of his personality.
 
DO is less prestigious than an MD. That's all there is to it. Anyone who goes on about all of this pride they have with their DO is just trying to convince themselves that they don't have a chip on their shoulder... but at the end of the day who cares? You will make a great living and to most patients a doctor is a doctor.
 
Admissions standards for DO schools have gone up dramatically over recent years, even with more and more schools opening up

This is true, and some DO schools are excellent academically and are very competitive. DO schools absolutely give a lot more musculoskeletal training too, and you might have access to great OMM specialists you can shadow early in your training.... so if you are sure you want to use your hands a lot you may be well served to go DO.

All I'm saying is that if you have a choice between schools and there is a big quality gap, go with the better training regardless of degree- your ultimate OMM skill is determined by what you are reading, who you choose as your mentors, and how much real pathology you palpate under skilled supervision- not how many hours you spend with a healthy partner in an OMM lab.
 
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You must have interviewed bad. Know some one with your stats who got interviews but couldn't make it past that step, because of his personality.

Nah, I only got one MD interview and was wait listed. I got interviews at every DO school I applied to, attended like 6, and got into all of them. So I couldn't be a bad interviewer. It was probably something else but I'll never know.

And I too know someone with similar stats who is also going DO. She's one of the more personable people I know so I know she couldn't have had problems with interviewing. There was something just off about how we presented ourselves in our applications, I guess.

The point is though, I don't really care. I have a slight chip on my shoulder, yeah, but I'm thankful anyways and will make the most of it.
 
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I will take pride in being a physician. However there is absolutely nothing intrinsic about "Osteopathy" that would warrant more pride in my degree than someone with an MD. As a premed, I was sold on treating a patient as a whole, preventative medicine and more personal interaction with your patients. Instead, I learned about Chapmans points, myofascial release, cranial rhythmic motion, V-Spread, and AT Stills ****ing birthday. Osteopathy is a ****ing joke, and as soon as we identify the quackery for what it is, nothing is going to change. I can't believe people eat this **** up. If you literally believe in Chapmans points I have serious concerns about your patients. If my personal doctor ever mentioned a Chapmans point Id laugh my way out of his office. So, no, to answer your question, I am not proud to be a DO, I am proud to be a physician. I wish I could swap my DO for an MD any day. Hell I would even pay for it. The further I can dissociate with Osteopathy the better. What a ****ing sham this has been.
 
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I'll take huge pride in my identity as a DO because I know I'll have worked really hard to earn it.

But I won't lie and say that with a 3.7/32, only getting into osteopathic schools, that I don't have a slight chip on my shoulder. But I'm also eternally grateful for this opportunity and will see things through to the best of the ability. I know a few others in my boat and know they have a similar mentality about being a DO.
I think a lot of people fall into this category. Does suck to admit it though.
 
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read AT Stills books

Oooohhh do you have any other fantasy fiction recommendations? I loved The Lord of the Rings as well.

You must have interviewed bad. Know some one with your stats who got interviews but couldn't make it past that step, because of his personality.

You must have learned bad.

What a ridiculous conclusion to arrive at.
 
Funny that so many DO premeds and students define themselves as "true believers"- basically ignoring the scientific method alltogether and treating osteopathy as their new religion or "skeptics" in that they discount everything in the history and tradition of osteopathy with an added flair of bitterness (throwing the baby out with the bathwater). I would ask readers to forgive the latter group because their exposure to OMM specialists has been largely to "true believer" types that drank the cool aid, rather than people who can explain, demonstrate and easily teach what they do and are humble about what they dont know. I try very hard to help physicians I train to see past this stuff- the concept is that you see the body as a whole, understand its processes, healthy patterns and unhealthy patterns, and restore health to the system. There is nothing controversial about any of these points. I tell residents and students to question everything I tell them, and only believe it when they can replicate the results for themselves consistently (and maybe not even then). Most MD's are very excited when they see what OMM can do for their patients, and I get many new referrals from MDs every week. I have maybe a dozen MDs ask me if I can train them to do what I do (I havent started doing CME but I may one day).

There is a lot to be proud of in Osteopathy. When you can change patient's lives every day that would otherwise suffer for years, or help patients into permanent remission that were told they absolutely need surgery- it is an amazing feeling.

AT Still was a scientist. He hated untested theories, and taught massive, immediate, permanent and reproduceable success was the only adequate measure of the truth of a theory. His thinking is very much in harmony with EBM, though I think he would argue that outcomes studies targeting remission are the main studies worth looking at. I doubt he would have stood for teaching chapmans points or cranial in their current form, for the reasons stated above. He made some bold claims in his work, but I have replicated some of his amazing claimed successes using his approaches- and his approaches are based on functional anatomy- not empty theory. As for his claimed results that I can't yet replicate- it may be due a poor understanding of his methodology on my part, or might reflect that he was mistaken- either way I am sure he would have encouraged the investigation. We need large well controlled studies going forward (and better research training at DO schools). When we have these, it will further pull the effective components of OMM away from the true believers and into the mainstream.
 
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Funny that so many DO premeds and students define themselves as "true believers"- basically ignoring the scientific method alltogether and treating osteopathy as their new religion or "skeptics" in that they discount everything in the history and tradition of osteopathy with an added flair of bitterness (throwing the baby out with the bathwater). I would ask readers to forgive the latter group because their exposure to OMM specialists has been largely to "true believer" types that drank the cool aid, rather than people who can explain, demonstrate and easily teach what they do and are humble about what they dont know. I try very hard to help physicians I train to see past this stuff- the concept is that you see the body as a whole, understand its processes, healthy patterns and unhealthy patterns, and restore health to the system. There is nothing controversial about any of these points. I tell residents and students to question everything I tell them, and only believe it when they can replicate the results for themselves consistently (and maybe not even then). Most MD's are very excited when they see what OMM can do for their patients, and I get many new referrals from MDs every week. I have maybe a dozen MDs ask me if I can train them to do what I do (I havent started doing CME but I may one day).

There is a lot to be proud of in Osteopathy. When you can change patient's lives every day that would otherwise suffer for years, or help patients into permanent remission that were told they absolutely need surgery- it is an amazing feeling.

AT Still was a scientist. He hated untested theories, and taught massive, immediate, permanent and reproduceable success was the only adequate measure of the truth of a theory. His thinking is very much in harmony with EBM, though I think he would argue that outcomes studies targeting remission are the main studies worth looking at. I doubt he would have stood for teaching chapmans points or cranial in their current form, for the reasons stated above. He made some bold claims in his work, but I have replicated some of his amazing claimed successes using his approaches- and his approaches are based on functional anatomy- not empty theory. As for his claimed results that I can't yet replicate- it may be due a poor understanding of his methodology on my part, or might reflect that he was mistaken- either way I am sure he would have encouraged the investigation. We need large well controlled studies going forward (and better research training at DO schools). When we have these, it will further pull the effective components of OMM away from the true believers and into the mainstream.

how many chapman's points do you fix a day?
 
We need large well controlled studies going forward (and better research training at DO schools). When we have these, it will further pull the effective components of OMM away from the true believers and into the mainstream.
Why? We don't research things that do not have good face validity and a valid conceptual framework.
 
how many chapman's points do you fix a day?
None of my mentors over the years with exceptional results have used them, and I haven't found a clinical predictive use for them with my limited testing so I have not studied them in further depth and do not use them. I am open minded about them... the way I am open minded about sightings of elvis... I might (but probably wouldnt) believe it if I saw it myself but I am not looking and im not holding my breath. I would read new studies published if/when they come out and would consider testing them in more depth in that case or if someone I trust finds they are clinically useful. Again, not holding my breath.

I dont see a reason to test them in classes or on boards.

FYI the posterior points are just a re-labeling of the spinal innervation of the visceral sympathetics. Learn your sympathetic nervous system anatomy- which you should learn anyway. You can then get the posterior chapmans questions right at least without wasting too much time.
 
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Why? We don't research things that do not have good face validity and a valid conceptual framework.

Why improve research training at DO schools? Because even DOs deserve to know how to read a research paper and know whether new research is valid or bunk. Why study OMT? Because everything tested in class and on boards should be subjected to rigorous independent evaluation- and if it doesn't hold up it should be discarded.
 
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I wanted to get some viewpoints on how DOs view themselves. Sometimes it seems some want to hide it, some are ambivalent.... So any opinions would be appreciated.

I haven't seen ANY practicing DO try to hide their "identity." I know quite a few DO's where I work, and many more elsewhere, along with the fact that my uncle is also a DO, and none of them have shown the slightest indication that they feel any "lesser" than an MD.
 
I haven't seen ANY practicing DO try to hide their "identity." I know quite a few DO's where I work, and many more elsewhere, along with the fact that my uncle is also a DO, and none of them have shown the slightest indication that they feel any "lesser" than an MD.
There should be a way to flag threads on the forum >1 year old so people don't fall for necrobumps.
 
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There should be a way to flag threads on the forum >1 year old so people don't fall for necrobumps.
Not a bad idea, but then again sometimes it's fun to read through them and see what SDN was like 5, 10, or 15 years ago.
 
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The degree allows me to become an ortho surgeon, serve my community, and bring pride to my family, so heck yeah!
 
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The degree allows me to become an ortho surgeon, serve my community, and bring pride to my family, so heck yeah!

People really do forget sometimes on this site that DO is a doctoral degree in medicine.
 
To most patients, a nurse practitioner is a doctor.
To most patients, anyone who is in their room is a doctor. I've seen techs, registration, nurses, and, hell, even chaplains confused for the physician.

But, that's the plan by the suits isn't it? Confuse and dilute the lay so as to standardize medicine as much as possible in order to provide the least amount of service for the most amount of monetary gains.

It's sad and unbelievably unethical but to say anything irl would deem one "unprofessional" or not a "team player".
 
To most patients, anyone who is in their room is a doctor. I've seen techs, registration, nurses, and, hell, even chaplains confused for the physician.

But, that's the plan by the suits isn't it? Confuse and dilute the lay so as to standardize medicine as much as possible in order to provide the least amount of service for the most amount of monetary gains.

It's sad and unbelievably unethical but to say anything irl would deem one "unprofessional" or not a "team player".
I tell patients all the time that the nurse practitioner they are seeing is not a doctor if they refer to them as "my doctor."
 
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I take pride in being a medical student/future doctor... but I am a little ashamed/embarrassed to have to learn the silliness that is OPP. My family is basically all MDs so I have no problem bashing OPP and making fun of it. The rest of it is all the same... medicine is medicine.
 
I take pride in being a medical student/future doctor... but I am a little ashamed/embarrassed to have to learn the silliness that is OPP. My family is basically all MDs so I have no problem bashing OPP and making fun of it. The rest of it is all the same... medicine is medicine.
Not all of OPP is crap.
Some of it definitely is.
Definitely don't be ashamed or embarrassed that you're learning it though. That will lead you to being embarrassed of the letters after your name. Don't bother with that.
 
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I take pride in being a medical student/future doctor... but I am a little ashamed/embarrassed to have to learn the silliness that is OPP. My family is basically all MDs so I have no problem bashing OPP and making fun of it. The rest of it is all the same... medicine is medicine.
You are aware a good chunk of OMM is pretty much just physical therapy, right? I lean pretty far with the "anti-omm" crowd but to say OMM is "silliness" in totality is a pretty blind view of the field.

Is it generally a waste of all of our time? Yes, yes it is. But, most of it is dumb because we aren't PT students. The course would be infinitely better without the cult-like culture and the pure **** like chapman points, cranial, etc etc.
 
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I tell patients all the time that the nurse practitioner they are seeing is not a doctor if they refer to them as "my doctor."
Honestly, the nursing lobbying has plain out won the brain washing affect. The funny thing is that they have diluted the "doctor look" so much that now patients are recognizing who the doctor is because he/she is the ONLY one who isn't wearing a white coat. Delicious delicious irony. I'm hopeful that this is becoming a national trend and isn't just regional but I can't speak about certain parts of 'merica.
 
People who post crap like this are obviously fishing for an endorsement to become a D.O physician.

You're a freaking physician either route you go. If that's not something to be proud of, I think I have officially lost all faith in humanity.
 
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