DO Friendly ACGME Orthopedics

[DopaDO]

Hello, I'm a second year med student at an Osteopathic institution. I tried doing a search, I couldn't find anything specifically related to this question. I was just wondering if anyone had any insight on MD programs that had taken DO's before (or at least interview them). Any help is greatly appreciated.

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[DarkHorizon]

Hello, I'm a second year med student at an Osteopathic institution. I tried doing a search, I couldn't find anything specifically related to this question. I was just wondering if anyone had any insight on MD programs that had taken DO's before (or at least interview them). Any help is greatly appreciated.

My question is why? DO programs provide good training for you to be a general Ortho.

Anyways, I know of three DOs that matched MD ortho this year, one matched cleveland clinic, another at Texas Tech, and another at Geisinger. JPS takes DOs almost every year. Nebraska has a DO who's a PGY4. Northwestern has one who's a PGY5. Tulane graduated one in 2011. MCG has a couple of DOs. UF jacksonville has one who's a PGY4. SIU has interviewed DOs in the past although there aren't any in the program.

These are the places I know of, I am sure there are more that I don't know about. Ortho is not a DO friendly field so I would reconsider going MD ortho if I were you, especially given that most DO programs are very good and provide great training.

 

[DopaDO]

My question is why? DO programs provide good training for you to be a general Ortho.

Anyways, I know of three DOs that matched MD ortho this year, one matched cleveland clinic, another at Texas Tech, and another at Geisinger. JPS takes DOs almost every year. Nebraska has a DO who's a PGY4. Northwestern has one who's a PGY5. Tulane graduated one in 2011. MCG has a couple of DOs. UF jacksonville has one who's a PGY4. SIU has interviewed DOs in the past although there aren't any in the program.

These are the places I know of, I am sure there are more that I don't know about. Ortho is not a DO friendly field so I would reconsider going MD ortho if I were you, especially given that most DO programs are very good and provide great training.

Thank you for the reply, I will certainly consider DO programs. My main goal is to get the best training possible. With the ACGME/AOA merger, there will only be one match in 2015 (assuming everything goes to plan). 2015 is my graduation year and I just want to get a sense of what MD programs are more DO friendly so I can focus my efforts on those programs and the DO programs I'm interested in as well. I'm excited about the idea that I can rank MD programs without having to worry about missing out on DO programs.

 

[Jefe5]

Thank you for the reply, I will certainly consider DO programs. My main goal is to get the best training possible. With the ACGME/AOA merger, there will only be one match in 2015 (assuming everything goes to plan). 2015 is my graduation year and I just want to get a sense of what MD programs are more DO friendly so I can focus my efforts on those programs and the DO programs I'm interested in as well. I'm excited about the idea that I can rank MD programs without having to worry about missing out on DO programs.

Don't get too excited. I haven't started medical school yet, but the DO school I was accepted to said that IF the merger happens, it won't be until 2018. They said it doesn't look too promising right now. I'm very interested in ortho surgery and trying to weight my options.

 

[NOsaintsfan]

At my school we had the AOA and the AMC president come speak at different times within a month of the announcement and they both said its a done deal.

Both did mention there were some details to work out but they suggested that these were minor and that everything was a go.

Bottom line about the whole thing is ACGME controls all residencies after 2015. DO's keep the DO designation, so there still will be DO and MD schools. 1 match will happen in 2015 MD's can apply for DO residencys if they desire.

All current DO residencys will be ACGME approved and will be reviewed under the normal review cycle by ACGME just like all other residencys are. They will all have to abide by the same standards.

That's it in a nut shell.

Oh for now DO's will still have to take COMLEX but that is up for future debate/negotiation.

I'm getting this info directly from what those various presidents told us.

 

[Adult Recon]

Just a word of warning. ACGME and AOA are currently not getting along. From experience I can tell you that the ACGME Adult Reconstruction fellowship programs cannot hire DOs coming from a non-ACGME residency program. In considering your career path you might want to keep your finger on the pulse to consider an ACGME accredited residency program if you are planning to specialize; a non-ACGME accredited residency program might limit your options. The relationship between ACGME and AOA can certainly change as time goes by but for now bear this in mind.

 

[Orthojoe]

I would agree with Dark Horizon - I rotated at both MD and DO programs and there are great Osteopathic Orthopedic Program that train very very well. I consider the program I am at trains just as well as the two MD programs i rotated through as a student (better in some circumstances) As a DO student I would focus on the top tier Osteopathic programs instead of shooting for an MD position, whether the merger happens or not it still will NOT change the fact that an osteopathic student matching MD is very very very tough. Getting an osteopathic ortho spot is tough... hedge your bets because trying to match at a MD program will take time away from osteopathic programs. I know too many guys who tried the MD match and have ended up in a research year or gen surg intern year. Most of the guys Dark horizon spoke about had some connections (family members, school affiliation, --except mayo i think). Good luck.

 

[Magillicutty]

Don't get too excited. I haven't started medical school yet, but the DO school I was accepted to said that IF the merger happens, it won't be until 2018. They said it doesn't look too promising right now. I'm very interested in ortho surgery and trying to weight my options.

As I'm sure you know, in weighing your options, any MD school (minus caribbean or foreign schools) is better than any DO school with respect to getting into ACGME ortho residencies. I haven't seen any DOs at my interviews, but DarkHorizon gave a good overview of some of the programs that have taken DOs in the past. I have seen a Caribbean grad at one interview, at a place where he had done an away rotation.

I'm not aware of any US-IMG in ortho residency -- does anyone else here?

 

[tryan22]

I'm not sure how competitive this year was compared to the past, but as a DO student who applied to both DO and MD ortho, I have told all of the MS3s at my school to not bother with MD programs. If you want to risk it, you better have great scores, and have big balls (courageously speaking). I had a pretty good application, mid 250s on both steps, national officer for a surgery club, decent LOR, and only received 4 interviews out of 45 programs, and 2 were programs I had rotated at (and I didn't apply to the top tier programs). If you are a stud applicant, you will match DO, and as long as you took the USMLEs, you should be able to still get into ACGME fellowships as an "exemplary student". Also, some fellowships are ABOS accredited so residency doesn't matter.

 

[wjs010]

I'm not sure how competitive this year was compared to the past, but as a DO student who applied to both DO and MD ortho, I have told all of the MS3s at my school to not bother with MD programs. If you want to risk it, you better have great scores, and have big balls (courageously speaking). I had a pretty good application, mid 250s on both steps, national officer for a surgery club, decent LOR, and only received 4 interviews out of 45 programs, and 2 were programs I had rotated at (and I didn't apply to the top tier programs). If you are a stud applicant, you will match DO, and as long as you took the USMLEs, you should be able to still get into ACGME fellowships as an "exemplary student". Also, some fellowships are ABOS accredited so residency doesn't matter.

In response to your last few sentences, are you saying that it would be in a DO students best interest to just go AOA ortho, and then do ACGME fellowship no problem? Correct me but I've been hearing a scare that it will be impossible in the near future for DOs to get into those fellowships.


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[tryan22]

I haven't been able to locate the documents, but I was told by multiple residents that some of the fellowships are accredited by the American Board of Orthopedic Surgeons instead of ACGME, so AOA/ACGME will not matter as much. For instance, I was told this is true for Joints, but like I said, this is just hear-say from the residents. Sports and Hand are ACGME accredited I believe so it won't help you with those specialties.

I also was told this fall that as long as DO students take all of the USMLEs, they will have exemplary student status, which grandfathers them into ACGME fellowships. Anyone know more about these topics?

To add - I have heard from multiple soon-to-be interns that their PDs told them that they need to take both COMLEX 3 and USMLE 3 so they will be eligible for MD fellowships. Can anyone else chime in?